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Dr Cedric
Orbital Industry and Research.
7
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Posted - 2011.11.03 00:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, with the new Tier 3 BC designs coming out, it got me thinking:
Why not make oversized weapons for Assault Frigs? It seems like a viable option now with the introduction of oversized for BC's.
And we can fill the 4th bonus on the AF line-up with an appropriate medium sized weapon bonus.
Ex 10% reduced explosion radius or 10% increased expl. velocity for heavy missiles/Heavy assault Missles on the hawk
10% increased tracking speed or some such for the harpy
Same for the other races, maybe letting the enyo have the web bonus...maybe let the ishkur launch 3 heavy drones?
Or maybe give the AF's a weak E-war bonus?
Just some thoughts coming out, any other ideas?
Ced |
Zarnak Wulf
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
53
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Posted - 2011.11.03 00:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Oversized weapons crossed my mind as well. It's a niche that hasn't been filled and makes sense. Of course never bet on CCP making sense! The next question would be, "Are HACS obsoleted by such a change?" The wolf with two damage bonuses, a falloff bonus, and a rate of fire bonus would do more damage with 4 medium guns then the vaga with 5. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
94
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Posted - 2011.11.03 00:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Wow, if only there were a class of frigs with oversized weapons ...
Seriously though, not what we need (though my Ishkur LOVES the thought of a full set of T2 Hammerheads ). This would make AFs in general majorly OPed (though it'd still be some of them being epic and some being crappy). |
Nimrod Nemesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
37
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Posted - 2011.11.03 01:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
AF Role: RvB |
Salo Aldeland
Luma Operations
1
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Posted - 2011.11.03 01:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Put 'em on Tier 2 destroyers instead. |
Thaddaus Dieneces
Militant Mermen LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 02:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yea I think so too, make a new T2 destroyer with med weapons, that be nice. Assault ships rock as they are, but a new destroyer be money. "I came in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you **** with me, I'll kill you all"
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Dr Cedric
Orbital Industry and Research.
7
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Posted - 2011.11.03 03:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tier or tech 2 destroyer is a great option also. I just think that now that the can has been opened, there should be more choices to allow this for more ship types. I can see a tech 3 sub to fit large turrets/launchers... I could see a high sec mini-dread battleship for high sec POS wars. I think this can really open some new doors for ship classes and roles that were maybe discounted because the status quo hadn't been shaken up yet.
Awesome times this winter expansion...and glad I just finished T2 large pulse and beam...I can't wait for these new ships! |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
109
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Posted - 2011.11.03 03:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'd rather see BS hulls with medium guns/launchers. |
SOLMEN
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 04:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:Why not make oversized weapons for Assault Frigs?
It's called a stealth bomber. |
Smiling Menace
Star Nebulae Holdings Inc.
23
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Posted - 2011.11.03 05:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
SOLMEN wrote:Dr Cedric wrote:Why not make oversized weapons for Assault Frigs? It's called a stealth bomber.
Well there is that but I suspect that's not what people have in mind. The AF's would be in a similar vein to the new Tier 3 BC's. Larger turrets/launchers but would need to be paper thin as the SB's are otherwise we'd all just fly them and kill everything in sight.
Interesting idea but I don't think that it would be that great to be honest. Would step on the toes of the existing ships too much and quite a few already get a raw deal as it is. |
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Will Strafe
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2011.11.03 05:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
The oversized weapons on the new Battlecruisers are made so in an effort to make them the anti cap ships of choice as I understand it. Caps have grown so common they have become a pestilence. New BC and doing away with the Logoffski should help level the field again.
There is no reason to use these ships as an example of why Assault Ships should use medium weapons. We sure don't need any anti-battleship frigates do we. |
Arronicus
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 06:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:AF Role: RvB
QFT
As for frigates with oversized guns... stealth bombers, anyone! baha.
Really though, in regards to assault frigs, they're meant to be tanky. For that reason, I would think that them having cruiser equivelant dps (which frankly some already seem to) would make them overpowered where having battleship dps on a fragile battlecruiser doesnt seem so bad.
If anything, I think they need to revise the mids/tank on the caldari equivelants a hair, or the pg, but that might just be me. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the role of assault frigates supposed to be -heavy tacklers-? Doesnt seem to make alot of sense putting big guns on a tackler. Oh well. |
Froz3nEcho Sarain
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
129
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Posted - 2011.11.03 13:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Nimrod Nemesis wrote:AF Role: RvB QFT As for frigates with oversized guns... stealth bombers, anyone! baha. Really though, in regards to assault frigs, they're meant to be tanky. For that reason, I would think that them having cruiser equivelant dps (which frankly some already seem to) would make them overpowered where having battleship dps on a fragile battlecruiser doesnt seem so bad. If anything, I think they need to revise the mids/tank on the caldari equivelants a hair, or the pg, but that might just be me. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the role of assault frigates supposed to be -heavy tacklers-? Doesnt seem to make alot of sense putting big guns on a tackler. Oh well.
1 word: 'Retribution' bwhaha ~ When everything fades away, an echo is the only sound that will remain ~ -á-á~ Chaos is a name for any order that produces confusion in our minds ~ |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 14:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote: Just some thoughts coming out, any other ideas? Ced
Oversized active tank?
New forum, still no automatic double post merge. CCP Excellence.-á . Playing the game of life means to pvp. Get used to it or become extinct. |
BearJews
The Activity
2
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Posted - 2011.11.03 15:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
why not just give AFs another bonus to afterburners or something, or to scramblers. Something viable for what they currently fit and use. |
Tabernack en Chasteaux
Next Generation Material Solutions
19
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Posted - 2011.11.03 17:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:I'd rather see BS hulls with medium guns/launchers.
Not sure if serious.
If you are serious, there's nothing stopping you from downsizing the weapons on your BS. People just don't do it because it's stupid and battlecruisers perform better in that role.
If you're not serious, I done got trolled. |
Alan Peamcrie
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 17:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tabernack en Chasteaux wrote:Goose99 wrote:I'd rather see BS hulls with medium guns/launchers. Not sure if serious. If you are serious, there's nothing stopping you from downsizing the weapons on your BS. People just don't do it because it's stupid and battlecruisers perform better in that role. If you're not serious, I done got trolled.
Well if there was a BS with bonuses to smaller guns, it would perform better than battlecruisers in dooming the smaller hulls. Because, you know, BS speed is neat to catch an Vaga gang, and BS tank is required against a fleet of merlins.
Oh and by the way Goose, if you want to see BS with medium weapons, just ship scan a few empire missionners. "I fly the Raven because it makes my peepee bigger but I can only shoot rockets for the moment".
And no, AF's are not supposed to be heavy tacklers : they are the slowest frigs their bonuses are towards tank & dps, not prop jamming their lock times are not particularly high for a frig look at the amarr one with 1 med...
People use some AFs as heavy tacklers because it's about all they can do right now. |
Izuru Hishido
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Violent Society
2
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Posted - 2011.11.03 18:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Oversized weapons crossed my mind as well. It's a niche that hasn't been filled and makes sense. Of course never bet on CCP making sense! The next question would be, "Are HACS obsoleted by such a change?" The wolf with two damage bonuses, a falloff bonus, and a rate of fire bonus would do more damage with 4 medium guns then the vaga with 5.
I'm going to have to second this. I want all my assault ships to have four bonuses. Where's that fourth bonus that every single assault frigate is missing? Why hasn't this been addressed? Give them all a role appropriate fourth bonus like every other T2 ship ingame has. |
Smodab Ongalot
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
0
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Posted - 2011.11.03 18:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
I always liked the idea of the fourth bonus being a speed bonus.
Perhaps one of these:
*Reduction in sig radius bloom from MWD (like a ceptor) *Bonus to AB speed *Bonus to Base Speed *Bonus to Agility
The problem I have always had with AFs is that they are very situational. You either choose to go MWD, and hope you don't have to use it around larger ships, or you go with the AB and just accept the fact that alot of stuff will be faster than you.
I would like to see an AB bonus such that the top speed of the average AF with AB is about the same as the mwd speed of the average cruiser. |
Allaera
Avatar Dynasty RED.Legion
3
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Posted - 2011.11.03 19:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote: I could see a high sec mini-dread battleship for high sec POS wars.
So could I, I've always wanted to see something like this in Eve.
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Izuru Hishido
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Violent Society
3
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Posted - 2011.11.03 20:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dr Cedric wrote:... I could see a high sec mini-dread battleship for high sec POS wars...
Hmm...lets see...mini-dreadnought type BS esque for POS takedowns...that can be used in highsec.
Let me think, I could have sworn a ship like that already existed.
Oh yeah! It does.
Its called a battleship.
Give the assault frigs their missing fourth bonus, perhaps a role bonus for the tier one AF's akin to the warp disruptor increase of the tier one interceptors and this will be fixed. |
Cailais
Rekall Incorporated
91
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Posted - 2011.11.04 01:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Personally Id like to see AFs getting some really new - perhaps the ability to jump to a cyno. They are class as 'assault' ships and having that kind of ranged manoeuvring could be an interesting capability on a small ship class.
Admittedly there are some problems with that as a concept - it might encourage heavier blobing but it might also be a foil to black op SB drops?
C.
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Meditril
Stardust Heavy Industries
15
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Posted - 2011.11.04 14:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Assault Ships role should be the ability to dive into a blob and pick/tackle a big target without instantly popping. Therefore I strongly advocate to provide them a limited webbing imunity bonus as described here. |
Any Guy
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2011.11.12 00:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Compared to the new designed destroyers, AF are going to have a hard time. Why not make the 4th bonus a tank bonus to reduce their sig or improve their resists? Some AF already have tanking bonuses but some Command ships have double tank bonuses so there is precedent.
I don't think the oversized weapons is a great idea but they could have a bomb launcher fitting bonus. Give the bomb launcher another ship to be fitted on and the AF a bonus weapon that would be fun to play with in hordes ;) |
Shaera Taam
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
8
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Posted - 2011.12.06 21:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
Any Guy wrote:Compared to the new designed destroyers, AF are going to have a hard time. Why not make the 4th bonus a tank bonus to reduce their sig or improve their resists? Some AF already have tanking bonuses but some Command ships have double tank bonuses so there is precedent.
I don't think the oversized weapons is a great idea but they could have a bomb launcher fitting bonus. Give the bomb launcher another ship to be fitted on and the AF a bonus weapon that would be fun to play with in hordes ;)
220mm AC wolf?
a bomb-launching jag?
/drool
but yeah, prolly waaaaay op, haha
Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess! |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
1
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Posted - 2011.12.06 21:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Way I figure it, we now have the 'glass CANNON' in the Tier 3 BCs. I don't want a 'glass little bit smaller than a cannon' ship. Destroyers are kinda sorta that. Instead of bigger guns, they get more guns. Same(ish) result.
Gimme that 4th bonus and a true T2 dessie other than the dictor and I'll be a happy pod pilot. |
Umega
Solis Mensa
3
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Posted - 2011.12.06 21:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Or you could just take the time to train for and then fly a HAC.. quite nearly the same thing.
AFs just need a 4th bonus. Some sort of role bonus.. and I'd rather it didn't step on inty's toes in the process.
Ewar immunity would be nice. |
Zarnak Wulf
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
130
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Posted - 2011.12.06 21:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
You have a ship that is supposed to work in scram range and at the same time active tank. Theoretically. Immunity to nuets would be nice. Of course I just woke up so this might not be a great idea by the time I get to work.... |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
145
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Posted - 2011.12.06 23:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
I think any discussion of AFs should consider which ones are good enough vs those that just aren't making the grade. The Ishkur and Jag are widely considered pretty good and when adding a 4th bonus you need to be careful of making them OP. The Hawk, Enyo, and Harpy OTOH are widely considered pretty terrible.
No matter what happens: - 1 mid slot is not acceptable and 2 feels pretty limited. - The Hawk needs the 5% Kin bonus replaced with a 10% Kin bonus as the Kestrel has. The 4th bonus can be ROF or damage or even another tanking bonus for all I care. - Make the ships reasonably fittable with T2 weapons at AWU 4. Bonus points if AWU5 opens up some truly stupendous fits.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Norris Packard
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
5
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Posted - 2011.12.06 23:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I think any discussion of AFs should consider which ones are good enough vs those that just aren't making the grade. The Ishkur and Jag are widely considered pretty good and when adding a 4th bonus you need to be careful of making them OP. The Hawk, Enyo, and Harpy OTOH are widely considered pretty terrible.
No matter what happens: - 1 mid slot is not acceptable and 2 feels pretty limited. - The Hawk needs the 5% Kin bonus replaced with a 10% Kin bonus as the Kestrel has. The 4th bonus can be ROF or damage or even another tanking bonus for all I care. - Make the ships reasonably fittable with T2 weapons at AWU 4. Bonus points if AWU5 opens up some truly stupendous fits.
-Liang
To be honest while yes they could do a ton of damage adding the 4th bonus to some they could always make it something that cancels out the others benefit like an optimal and a falloff bonus. It would only really be good for one set of the weapons loaded on it and so would kinda only be applying 3 bonus still. Would I love a Jaguar with a fall off bonus? Yes. Would it be powerful? Yeah I think it would. Would that optimal bonus be doing anything for me on my AC Jaguar? Not really. Still 3 bonuses and with the other weaker ships getting a truly cumulative bonus like damage or greater tanking allowing all 4 to apply at once would help to balance them out. |
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