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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Garreck
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Posted - 2006.02.07 20:43:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Valea Silpha The problem is not that people want to be immune to NOS or don't want to change tactics or infact want to pwn everything in one ship. We'd just like to have some options.
I've already named a couple of options that are quite effective. But what any effective tactic will boil down to is teamwork...and yes, it does seem that folks want to be able to solo a battleship rather than work with a cruiser/frig pack to get the job done. I guarantee this would not be an issue if folks were using multiple ships against nos-equiped battleships. Shouldn't need more than 3 cruisers, and none of 'em need to be HACs.
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Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2006.02.07 20:44:00 -
[32]
my thoughts on the nos matter are simple... how many percentage of the people fit nos on their battleship in the utility slots? 80-90%? i'd say that pretty much shows that the nos is *too* usefull.
------------------------------------------ The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr. |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.02.07 20:47:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia NOS are countered by fighting at range.
What will suck about capital NOS is they'll probably end up having 40km range or something sick like that. Also, you won't hear a BS ***** that their cap was gone instantly, but you WILL hear HACs ***** about it...
"WTF MY DEIMOS HAD FULL CAP NOW IM EMPTY"
/raven gets nossed, loses 1/4th its cap, and then pops in an 800 cap battery out of the 50 or so it has.
Nos also require a target lock. If a ship is relying on nos, target-jam him. I think the amount drawn should be modified by your sig radius though, personally. It makes sense.
Also, something tells me capital nos won't be coming out or at least won't be out until some seriously big balances come into play.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
migwar
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Posted - 2006.02.07 20:54:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Necrologic Why should you need 3 hacs (which cost more than a bs) to take on a bs?
HACS only cost more than a BS because there T2 and teh sexah, They are definatly punching above their weight if you compare base cost
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2006.02.07 20:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Sky Hunter I know im usually against whining threads, but this one became something i cant go past.
Over past week i encounterd various BSs with various setups and from various corps/alliances. But in 80% of cases, if BS was engaging me he had at least 2 Heavy nosfs.
This is for sure means 'no go' for almost any HAC. I mean ok, people use nosfs now against NPCs, but not when a pilot slaps a nosferatu on every BS he can get into.
Fighting from outside Heavy NOS range 4tw?
Would you buy me 30km Domination disruptors then?
Alright, so lets say i fitted on my HAC long-range guns(dunno how its possible withotu gimping all med and low slots but ok). Lets say i orbit my target at 24km at about 900m/s. Now what happens if the target got lets say T2 Megapulses? Im dead right on the same place he locks me. Long range guns take alot of fitting so i wont be able to fit even half-decent tank.
Hence i myself fly BS with nosfs sometimes. But it doesnt mean you need to slap 3 nosfs on EACH and EVERY BS you have no matter what you use it for.
-=-
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Lygos
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Posted - 2006.02.07 20:56:00 -
[36]
There is already some sort of not yet released anti-nos mod in the item database. It'll be ready when and if it's ready.
A 26km BS setup or perhaps (maybe) a cruiser setup will make a NOS user weep. I'm testing this out for anti-domi use, although it is still very hmm.
For Frigs and Cruisers, try using a setup that relies on making use of far less or almost no cap. Missile and artillery are good at this. An AB can be hard to shut down, and even active hardners still give you a good 20 seconds after their last activation. Passive shield tanks are also very much immune to NOS.
The real trouble is warp scrambler duration. I think it would be much better if they lasted a long time, used a little less cap (at least on t1 and t2 tackler frigs), but affected both the target and the user.
Eunoia: The persistent suspicion that the universe is secretly conspiring to quietly improve one's life. |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.02.07 20:58:00 -
[37]
Originally by: migwar
Originally by: Necrologic Why should you need 3 hacs (which cost more than a bs) to take on a bs?
HACS only cost more than a BS because there T2 and teh sexah, They are definatly punching above their weight if you compare base cost
What it boils down to is that the price is determined almost entirely by demand since there is a fixed supply rate. The demand is determined mostly by the usefulness of the ship but also the desirability. If it's 150mil for a Deimos, that means people think it's worth 150mil.
But you're right, at base costs it's not nearly as much as the current price and it's definitely a lot better than T1 ships.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Unuthiel
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Posted - 2006.02.07 22:00:00 -
[38]
Quote: The problem is that all you BS pilots don't want to change your tactics
Why should we change something that works? To make HAC pilots' life easier? No, thanks.
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Nimicus
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Posted - 2006.02.07 22:01:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sky Hunter I know im usually against whining threads, but this one became something i cant go past.
Over past week i encounterd various BSs with various setups and from various corps/alliances. But in 80% of cases, if BS was engaging me he had at least 2 Heavy nosfs.
This is for sure means 'no go' for almost any HAC. I mean ok, people use nosfs now against NPCs, but not when a pilot slaps a nosferatu on every BS he can get into.
Im not whinin about 'omg i cant kill BS', im just disappointed that Heavy nosferatu is now BS 'top used' module.
So even tho i cant think about any wise change proposition, but ill try few(those are separated suggestion not all-in-one):
1. Increase cycle time of nosfs from 12sec to 24secs. It will give some recharge time for BCs/T2 BCs/HACs to be able to relay on to at least keep guns running.
2. Inrease power grid usage on named nosfs and on T1 nosf. From 2000 to lets say 2300.
3. Maybe make nosfs speed-up. For example the more time you nosf someone, the more energy you get. For example first cycle gives you only 40 cap, then next cycle gives you 50 and so on. Maybe even make some chance based nosfing but make it so nosf will still drain cap, but drain differnt amounts. For example 100-20-50-60-40-80 or something like this.
Again this is not whine topic. Its juts something i wanna ask if someone else been seeing alot of nosfing on BS lately.
Cap injector, problem solved. or Keep your distance, problem solved. or Team mates, problem solved. or Fit Nos, problem solved. or ECM, problem solved.
Seriously, the "Nerf Nos" posts need to stop. Just because you can't counter Nos with a convenient click of the mouse or fitting a single mod doesn't mean you can't counter them at all. Nos serve a valuable front-line function.
BS equip Nos as a defense against smaller ships, and they should have SOME defense vs smaller ships. Upgrading your ship shouldn't mean totally losing any effectiveness against smaller class ships. Many here feel it should.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.02.07 22:07:00 -
[40]
so right, you feel that your hac is crippled becouse of 2 heavy nos? why is that? maybe becouse you fitt your hac for gankage and not survive ability?
and for those whining that heavy nos is too useful? omfg you deserve to die. "damage mod in my eyes is too useful becouse everone uses them omg", what you gonna do about that?
and what is keeping you from fitting ecm on your hac? or what about a cap booster? you can fitt like 2 400 batteries in one cap booster, two heavy nos will take 200 cap every 12 sec, and you get 400 cap every 15 sec? oh noes i found a solution for you!
"We brake for nobody"
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2006.02.07 22:08:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Nimicus Cap injector, problem solved. or Keep your distance, problem solved. or Team mates, problem solved. or Fit Nos, problem solved. or ECM, problem solved.
Seriously, the "Nerf Nos" posts need to stop. Just because you can't counter Nos with a convenient click of the mouse or fitting a single mod doesn't mean you can't counter them at all. Nos serve a valuable front-line function.
BS equip Nos as a defense against smaller ships, and they should have SOME defense vs smaller ships. Upgrading your ship shouldn't mean totally losing any effectiveness against smaller class ships. Many here feel it should.
I support this post.
Nos.
Are.
Fine. -Wrayeth
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.02.07 22:10:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Valea Silpha The problem is that all you BS pilots don't want to change your tactics
to give it a twist, the problem is hacs, cruisers etc not wanting to change THEIR tactics.
"We brake for nobody"
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Corey Grim
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Posted - 2006.02.07 22:10:00 -
[43]
yeap nos should be counterable in some % not all but some, same as web
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2006.02.07 22:24:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 07/02/2006 22:24:49
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Originally by: Valea Silpha The problem is that all you BS pilots don't want to change your tactics
to give it a twist, the problem is hacs, cruisers etc not wanting to change THEIR tactics.
Hehe... I was wondering when someone would post that.
My raven was hit hard by Cold War, and I had to adjust my setup and tactics to make it worth flying in PvP, but I've finally found a good balance. Everyone gets this on occasion, but it just means changing your tactics and setups. -Wrayeth
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Jennifae
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Posted - 2006.02.07 22:36:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Nimicus
Originally by: Sky Hunter I know im usually against whining threads, but this one became something i cant go past.
Over past week i encounterd various BSs with various setups and from various corps/alliances. But in 80% of cases, if BS was engaging me he had at least 2 Heavy nosfs.
This is for sure means 'no go' for almost any HAC. I mean ok, people use nosfs now against NPCs, but not when a pilot slaps a nosferatu on every BS he can get into.
Im not whinin about 'omg i cant kill BS', im just disappointed that Heavy nosferatu is now BS 'top used' module.
So even tho i cant think about any wise change proposition, but ill try few(those are separated suggestion not all-in-one):
1. Increase cycle time of nosfs from 12sec to 24secs. It will give some recharge time for BCs/T2 BCs/HACs to be able to relay on to at least keep guns running.
2. Inrease power grid usage on named nosfs and on T1 nosf. From 2000 to lets say 2300.
3. Maybe make nosfs speed-up. For example the more time you nosf someone, the more energy you get. For example first cycle gives you only 40 cap, then next cycle gives you 50 and so on. Maybe even make some chance based nosfing but make it so nosf will still drain cap, but drain differnt amounts. For example 100-20-50-60-40-80 or something like this.
Again this is not whine topic. Its juts something i wanna ask if someone else been seeing alot of nosfing on BS lately.
Cap injector, problem solved. or Keep your distance, problem solved. or Team mates, problem solved. or Fit Nos, problem solved. or ECM, problem solved.
Seriously, the "Nerf Nos" posts need to stop. Just because you can't counter Nos with a convenient click of the mouse or fitting a single mod doesn't mean you can't counter them at all. Nos serve a valuable front-line function.
BS equip Nos as a defense against smaller ships, and they should have SOME defense vs smaller ships. Upgrading your ship shouldn't mean totally losing any effectiveness against smaller class ships. Many here feel it should.
/agree 100%
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WizEye
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Posted - 2006.02.07 22:56:00 -
[46]
keep your distance ffs. A BS with 2 nos is a BS with 2 less guns which is a serious advantage for the enemy if you can stay away from its nos range. Any BS with nos in all its highs is a dead bs if it can't get close enough.
Sure, you're most likely not going to be able to scramble that BS because of keeping range, but you'll live.
Honestly, even when I'm flying my nos dominix I don't really feel comfortable against ceptors like most of you. A smart frig pilot will shoot drones down first and then you. If you're out of drones, you're dead. Same thing for other BS in close combat. Blasterthrons and Ravens can rip a new ******* to any nos setup if their timing is good.
There's nothing overpowered in nos, you just have to be smart enough to use their user weakness. -----------------------
HELP US FIX DRONES, POST HERE!!! SIGN HERE |
WizEye
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Posted - 2006.02.07 22:57:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Nimicus
Originally by: Sky Hunter I know im usually against whining threads, but this one became something i cant go past.
Over past week i encounterd various BSs with various setups and from various corps/alliances. But in 80% of cases, if BS was engaging me he had at least 2 Heavy nosfs.
This is for sure means 'no go' for almost any HAC. I mean ok, people use nosfs now against NPCs, but not when a pilot slaps a nosferatu on every BS he can get into.
Im not whinin about 'omg i cant kill BS', im just disappointed that Heavy nosferatu is now BS 'top used' module.
So even tho i cant think about any wise change proposition, but ill try few(those are separated suggestion not all-in-one):
1. Increase cycle time of nosfs from 12sec to 24secs. It will give some recharge time for BCs/T2 BCs/HACs to be able to relay on to at least keep guns running.
2. Inrease power grid usage on named nosfs and on T1 nosf. From 2000 to lets say 2300.
3. Maybe make nosfs speed-up. For example the more time you nosf someone, the more energy you get. For example first cycle gives you only 40 cap, then next cycle gives you 50 and so on. Maybe even make some chance based nosfing but make it so nosf will still drain cap, but drain differnt amounts. For example 100-20-50-60-40-80 or something like this.
Again this is not whine topic. Its juts something i wanna ask if someone else been seeing alot of nosfing on BS lately.
Cap injector, problem solved. or Keep your distance, problem solved. or Team mates, problem solved. or Fit Nos, problem solved. or ECM, problem solved.
Seriously, the "Nerf Nos" posts need to stop. Just because you can't counter Nos with a convenient click of the mouse or fitting a single mod doesn't mean you can't counter them at all. Nos serve a valuable front-line function.
BS equip Nos as a defense against smaller ships, and they should have SOME defense vs smaller ships. Upgrading your ship shouldn't mean totally losing any effectiveness against smaller class ships. Many here feel it should.
*hug* -----------------------
HELP US FIX DRONES, POST HERE!!! SIGN HERE |
Wrayeth
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Posted - 2006.02.07 23:01:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 07/02/2006 23:04:56 BTW, for tacklers who have trouble tackling due to nos, just fit one yourself. Activate your scrambler immediately after you've gotten that fresh injection of energy from your nosferatu. It should allow you to keep your scramble on, even if you can't fire your guns. -Wrayeth
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Atar
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Posted - 2006.02.07 23:04:00 -
[49]
I agree NOS are fine. You're in a crusier and expect to take down a BS 1 on 1, no. It should take a few crusiers to do that, and with a few they will can't nos all of them.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.02.07 23:11:00 -
[50]
Naughty boy for president.
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Fade Routha
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Posted - 2006.02.08 00:04:00 -
[51]
Sadly having seen one in action *victim of* the curse. Now before i get started i am not whininng about being blown up. But when one crusier can disable 3 ships at once without even breaking a sweat. It's just wrong. And 1v1 a curse should be able to completely pwn a battleship. Now killing it with t2 med drones would take a while but the BS pilot's only real option when locked down is to sit there and watch his ship die while waiting for back up. "I don't like change, it's differnt and it's not the same." |
Necrologic
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Posted - 2006.02.08 00:13:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Deja Thoris Naughty boy for president.
/signed.
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Agnar Koladrov
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Posted - 2006.02.08 00:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Deja Thoris Naughty boy for president.
/signed
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Wolverine PL
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Posted - 2006.02.08 00:20:00 -
[54]
You know that this game is multiplayer? Work in group. Simple. Some folks want to kill bs with interceptor or AF. Its silly. I fly dominix, and I can say that if they nerf Heavy Nos, then I will join ppl who quit game.
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Demonstheses
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Posted - 2006.02.08 00:28:00 -
[55]
There is no problem here. BS would have no defense against hac's without heavy nos. You can't take them away because then you'd have to take away med nos too. Just freaking use a cap booster and you don't have to worry about anything.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2006.02.08 00:38:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Demonstheses There is no problem here. BS would have no defense against hac's without heavy nos. You can't take them away because then you'd have to take away med nos too. Just freaking use a cap booster and you don't have to worry about anything.
I can fight hacs just fine with my bs. I do many of the things you are telling hac pilots to do. Short ranged guns, ecm, and most importantly Tank.
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Thomas Torquemada
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Posted - 2006.02.08 00:53:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock so right, you feel that your hac is crippled becouse of 2 heavy nos? why is that? maybe becouse you fitt your hac for gankage and not survive ability?
and for those whining that heavy nos is too useful? omfg you deserve to die. "damage mod in my eyes is too useful becouse everone uses them omg", what you gonna do about that?
and what is keeping you from fitting ecm on your hac? or what about a cap booster? you can fitt like 2 400 batteries in one cap booster, two heavy nos will take 200 cap every 12 sec, and you get 400 cap every 15 sec? oh noes i found a solution for you!
As someone mentioned above, people want damage/scramble ability but leave their defences/repair/cap recharge minimal, and expect to solo a battleship in said HAC. This is simply silly, i dont know about other HAC's, but a Sacriledge fitted with a normal dual rep/tank/cpr/cap rechager setup can easily withstand 4 heavy nos and have cap to spare if your cap related skills are maxxed, you can even slap on a 20k scram on this and it performs superb vs battleships as a hardened tackler.
Everything else has been nerfed to hell and back due to people whining, because either they dont want to work as a group, dont want to fit accordingly, lack good skills or simply want everything their way because their opinion is all that matters in their mind.
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
Zysco
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Posted - 2006.02.08 01:00:00 -
[58]
Heavy nos are not overpowered, sorry.
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Reesah
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Posted - 2006.02.08 01:09:00 -
[59]
I am of the oppinion that they should have tracking and accuracy falloff ranges. This way you still have to keep range in mind when fitting them etc. If targeting disruptors have to have them, why the hell not have it regarding NOS as well? Makes sense to me that there should be no "can't miss" offense. =============================================== Sigs for ISK? Yeah, I got those. evemail me for references.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.02.08 01:14:00 -
[60]
I don't agree that Nosferatu are fine. I think any battleship or cruiser class module having the same effect on frigs as it does on ships of its own size is blatantly wrong. People are more or less fitting them because they are cruicial to defense against smaller ships, not because they necessarily need the cap. This is inherently true when you have people in fleets with no tank setup fitting Heavy Nosferatus in their utility slots.
But like all suggestions which threaten the sense of security people have flying battleships, it leads to illogical flames and pre-emptive whining. Thats okay, you're only helping to draw more attention to the issue. The fact that it is an issue with so many people is enough to make the statement "things could be better" true. The day will come when Nosferatus get nerfed, and the day will come when warp jammers and stasis webs become class based, just as it has been done to turrets, missiles, and drones.
Hopefully when we're through squirming in pseudo-disgust, we'll have a nice game with mixed fleets and real tactics.
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