Originally by: Maya Rkell

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Edited by: Maya Rkell on 09/02/2006 03:09:58

Sure. The Humvee being a lone T1 frigate. But get 10 with anti-tank missile launchers, and what happens? Yes, the 10 T2 small ships tear your BS apart. Stop using stupid RL analogies. Unless you want to sell me some FAE's in Eve.

I don't hate Nos. I just believe that they should follow reasonable game rules. Other modules and drones have been MASSIVELY boosted against smaller ships with RMR, and the tanking changes have given smaller ships yet another kick in the teeth.

Wanting to *balance* a module which currently has NO sort of tradeoff (as every module should do, in opportunity cost) for a close-range bombatant is not unreasonable.

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Originally by: Heckubus

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lets put it this way. Since all you nos haters want to be able to own bs's while in lower end ships.

Put a tank up against a humvee.

what happens? Tank will own.

Quit trying to fight tanks in a humvee and you wont have this problem.

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Originally by: Heckubus

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Edited by: Heckubus on 09/02/2006 03:13:56

Originally by: Maya Rkell

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Edited by: Maya Rkell on 09/02/2006 03:09:58

Sure. The Humvee being a lone T1 frigate. But get 10 with anti-tank missile launchers, and what happens? Yes, the 10 T2 small ships tear your BS apart. Stop using stupid RL analogies. Unless you want to sell me some FAE's in Eve.

I don't hate Nos. I just believe that they should follow reasonable game rules. Other modules and drones have been MASSIVELY boosted against smaller ships with RMR, and the tanking changes have given smaller ships yet another kick in the teeth.

Wanting to *balance* a module which currently has NO sort of tradeoff (as every module should do, in opportunity cost) for a close-range bombatant is not unreasonable.

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Doesnt have a trade off? You lose a high slot. NOS does nothing for you but assure in a BS you arent guarenteed to get owned by a frig squad. Do you even fly a bs? From the way you are talking I dont see how, you are STUCK against frigs. Why should a ship that I invest under 300k in pretty much make my 100m dollar investment null? It shouldnt. NoS is the factor that evens the playing field.

Now with nos, I cant do anything more then get away that I could do with out nos. Waahh cry some more.

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Originally by: WizEye

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I'm sorry guys, but they'll end up forcing CCP to nerf nos.
At the end, it's 3 people who are pulling this entire case forward, but they happen to be influential and have more time to blabbler on forums than the majority of us. Sooner or later, CCP will be tired of listening to them whine in dozens of posts at the same time, and will give them what they want. They're not right, but their voice is louder.

I surrender to your tsunami of bs, any form or reasonable resistance is futile against organized whining.

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Originally by: Necrologic

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Originally by: Heckubus

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lets put it this way. Since all you nos haters want to be able to own bs's while in lower end ships.

Put a tank up against a humvee.

what happens? Tank will own.

Quit trying to fight tanks in a humvee and you wont have this problem.

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This is not real life, this is eve. and this is not the way of things in eve.

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Originally by: Heckubus

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Originally by: Necrologic

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Originally by: Heckubus

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lets put it this way. Since all you nos haters want to be able to own bs's while in lower end ships.

Put a tank up against a humvee.

what happens? Tank will own.

Quit trying to fight tanks in a humvee and you wont have this problem.

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This is not real life, this is eve. and this is not the way of things in eve.

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its about as lame as someone who wants to pwn a 100m dollar ship in a 300k gocart.

give it up, none of you have a good argument why they should be nerfed you just like to hear yourselves whine about it in hopes you can take on the world in a 300k dollar ship with no real investment to you.

QQ some more please, I dont think my whine meter is high enough yet.

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Originally by: Maya Rkell

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I said "ZERO tradeoff for a short ranged setup".
They are very useful against anything which enters gun range. Period.

And if you cannot mount..

*small drones
*nos which do 1/2 the current (ohnoes, 13s to kill a frigs cap rather than 1!)
*smartbombs
*smaller guns
*missiles
*friends (well, not mount, bring).

Then maybe your skill training is deficient.

Nos take the playing field, which is allready uphill for smaller ships, and jam it into their face. Peoples time investment is worth more than ISK - if I have 10 friends along, and you have none, then if I have ANY sort of reasonable setup you should die unless you are specifically kitted to evade PRECISELY what I have brought along.

And you say that nos are not useful at all? An interesting statement and complete different from everything you are saying. Odd.

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Originally by: Necrologic

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Originally by: Heckubus

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Originally by: Necrologic

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Originally by: Heckubus

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lets put it this way. Since all you nos haters want to be able to own bs's while in lower end ships.

Put a tank up against a humvee.

what happens? Tank will own.

Quit trying to fight tanks in a humvee and you wont have this problem.

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This is not real life, this is eve. and this is not the way of things in eve.

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its about as lame as someone who wants to pwn a 100m dollar ship in a 300k gocart.

give it up, none of you have a good argument why they should be nerfed you just like to hear yourselves whine about it in hopes you can take on the world in a 300k dollar ship with no real investment to you.

QQ some more please, I dont think my whine meter is high enough yet.

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You havn't read this thread, or any of the others. Go read them or go away.

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Originally by: Heckubus

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Originally by: Maya Rkell

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I said "ZERO tradeoff for a short ranged setup".
They are very useful against anything which enters gun range. Period.

And if you cannot mount..

*small drones
*nos which do 1/2 the current (ohnoes, 13s to kill a frigs cap rather than 1!)
*smartbombs
*smaller guns
*missiles
*friends (well, not mount, bring).

Then maybe your skill training is deficient.

Nos take the playing field, which is allready uphill for smaller ships, and jam it into their face. Peoples time investment is worth more than ISK - if I have 10 friends along, and you have none, then if I have ANY sort of reasonable setup you should die unless you are specifically kitted to evade PRECISELY what I have brought along.

And you say that nos are not useful at all? An interesting statement and complete different from everything you are saying. Odd.

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Thanks for putting words in my mouth, I have something to put in yours.

What I said was simple. NoS only advantage is making sure when your little junkheap 300k investment tries to take out my 100m dollar investment, I CAN ESCAPE.

thats the only purpose NOS really fills in all the BS runs ive done in 0.0 solo.

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Originally by: Necrologic

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So shouldn't my 300mil hac win against your bs by your logic?

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RAWRRRRRRR!!1 - Imaran

Originally by: DigitalCommunist

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I don't agree that Nosferatu are fine. I think any battleship or cruiser class module having the same effect on frigs as it does on ships of its own size is blatantly wrong. People are more or less fitting them because they are cruicial to defense against smaller ships, not because they necessarily need the cap. This is inherently true when you have people in fleets with no tank setup fitting Heavy Nosferatus in their utility slots.

But like all suggestions which threaten the sense of security people have flying battleships, it leads to illogical flames and pre-emptive whining. Thats okay, you're only helping to draw more attention to the issue. The fact that it is an issue with so many people is enough to make the statement "things could be better" true. The day will come when Nosferatus get nerfed, and the day will come when warp jammers and stasis webs become class based, just as it has been done to turrets, missiles, and drones.

Hopefully when we're through squirming in pseudo-disgust, we'll have a nice game with mixed fleets and real tactics.

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Necrologic

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So shouldn't my 300mil hac win against your bs by your logic?

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Not being rude or anything, but I thought HACs are about 40M that are sold at a heavily inflated price?

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Originally by: Necrologic

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Necrologic

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So shouldn't my 300mil hac win against your bs by your logic?

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Not being rude or anything, but I thought HACs are about 40M that are sold at a heavily inflated price?

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Very true.
But with a nice kit it's still going to come close to 100mil. I am merely pointing out that him using cost as the balancing factor is very faulty.

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RAWRRRRRRR!!1 - Imaran

Originally by: Maya Rkell

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Edited by: Maya Rkell on 09/02/2006 03:18:13
I said "ZERO tradeoff for a short ranged setup".
They are very useful against anything which enters their range. Period.

And if you cannot mount..

*small drones
*nos which do 1/2 the current (ohnoes, 13s to kill a frigs cap rather than 1!)
*smartbombs
*smaller guns
*missiles
*friends (well, not mount, bring).

Then maybe your skill training is deficient.

Nos take the playing field, which is allready uphill for smaller ships, and jam it into their face. Peoples time investment is worth more than ISK - if I have 10 friends along, and you have none, then if I have ANY sort of reasonable setup you should die unless you are specifically kitted to evade PRECISELY what I have brought along.

And you say that nos are not useful at all? An interesting statement and complete different from everything you are saying. Odd.

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Originally by: Maya Rkell

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Edited by: Maya Rkell on 09/02/2006 03:37:03



But at the end of the day, this is a MMO. A solo BS pilot who fits to fight other BS is taking a CHOICE by doing so, and that CHOICE is that he sacrifices combat ability against smaller ships. He shouldn't then ***** if he gets Trench Run Disease.

There is one module which is badly out of whack when it comes to looking at this balance. A module with zero opportunity cost, which works especially effectively (given smaller caps) on smaller ships, crippling them in seconds. That module is the heavy nos.

Asking for it to be balanced, given the massive nerfs in RMR to smaller ships is NOT unreasonable.

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Originally by: nahtoh

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Originally by: Maya Rkell

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Edited by: Maya Rkell on 09/02/2006 03:37:03



But at the end of the day, this is a MMO. A solo BS pilot who fits to fight other BS is taking a CHOICE by doing so, and that CHOICE is that he sacrifices combat ability against smaller ships. He shouldn't then ***** if he gets Trench Run Disease.

There is one module which is badly out of whack when it comes to looking at this balance. A module with zero opportunity cost, which works especially effectively (given smaller caps) on smaller ships, crippling them in seconds. That module is the heavy nos.

Asking for it to be balanced, given the massive nerfs in RMR to smaller ships is NOT unreasonable.

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Sorry Maya but their are solo HAC and Inti pilots asking for the same thing thing in this thread not to get insta cap drained by one BS...Thats the problem I have with this.

Ran a gate camp in my Diemos with 2 heavy NOs on me...still had the cap to get enuff MWD cycles to get out of it, If i had to fight I would have lost but I could get away.

If Heavy NOS were as uber as its being made out be I would have been screwed no ifs no buts.

Aye and TRD was not done solo

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Originally by: Necrologic

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Have you considered that since we are influencial eve members we might care about our beloved game beyond pushing our own agendas? It benefits me more to keep nos as it is in all honesty.

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Originally by: Heckubus

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if you guys want to talk about a real injustice, lets talk about 0.0 loot. I should not be getting miner 1's in deepspace even off frig rats.

That is the real problem here, it forces me to use my nos in pvp.

come on guys /sign for support!

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