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Make loosing your ship less of a disaster

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Noctoz	Posted - 2003.08.31 16:49:00 - [1] I see lots of complaing about people loosing months of work due to one mistake or people that will not go into combat because they fear to loose their ship. This should not be so. We have insurance that can help the situation but for those that can't be on a lot it's not a sollution. Insuring a BB is expensive. I think the system should be changed so that insurance works like clones. YOu have it until you loose your ship. Realistic? No, but this is a game and the first priority should be to make it fun. TO take it to a further level you could even make it so you don't loose your ship just equipment. This might be to go to extremes though. Maybe a free level of insurance whould be good though so that you don't loose everything even if you are caught unprepared. Please critize this suggestion or come up with ways to improve it. Any improvment to this aspect of the game will make me happy. I want large fleet battles. I want to go into combat without the feeling that in 5 minutes I might have lost weeks of work and will be forced to go do endless rat hunting or mining again just to get back to where I were. And don't way you shoudl safe up money to afford to loose a battleship. For some people, maybe even including me, this is fully possible but for most even getting the money for a battleship is a HUGE goal. Shouls people get Battleships jsut to be able to mine and rat hunt in them. NO! ------------------ NoctoZ Black Reign Curse Alliance
Alexia Te'Len	Posted - 2003.08.31 16:54:00 - [2] Rather odd to see this coming from a member of M00. o_O
Kesh Inehre	Posted - 2003.08.31 16:54:00 - [3] Edited by: Kesh Inehre on 31/08/2003 16:54:29 M0o is woried about loosing ships... How Ironic... -Kesh
Majin Buu	Posted - 2003.08.31 16:55:00 - [4] most of the time the ship is easily replaced, its the equipment thats hard to replace now, especially now the more "leet" equipment is alot harder to find :(. Apart from that the idea u have is a great one, abit like Jumpgate where if u got shot down u only lost your equipment, but your ship was replaced. the only addition i would make is that the replacement ship is only replaced if u lost it in empire space, and to a corp that u are not currently at war with. This would make sure that there will always be some sort of demand for ships BoB KillBoard
Noctoz	Posted - 2003.08.31 17:01:00 - [5] newsflash. I do not enjoy ruining anyones game experience. I just want to be apirate and the includes blowing up people ship if they don't give me their goods and money. Also I want to have fights with the people that coe and hunts us but currently it will never happen. Why? Because huge battles like that is a HUGE risk of loosing your ship so the only one seeking out battle is the side with most ships. Of course sometimes there will be a fight but it could happen much more often. Realize that the cost of equipment and a new clone alone is LOTS of isk. ------------------ NoctoZ Black Reign Curse Alliance
Jarjar	Posted - 2003.08.31 17:02:00 - [6] Quote: most of the time the ship is easily replaced, its the equipment thats hard to replace now, especially now the more "leet" equipment is alot harder to find :(. Speak for yourself, getting 90+ mil isn't just 3 hours of work for some of us.
Noctoz	Posted - 2003.08.31 17:07:00 - [7] Majin. For people in a huge corp replacing a BB is easy but for people that work for them themselves it's a nother story. And as most ships are lost outside empire space I don't think there shoudl be no replacement there. I agree thought there needs to be some way to keep the shipmaking market alive. Maybe by giveing you isk instead of a new ships as is the situation right now. There need to be a system in place though that makes sure you can't abuse the system to gain isk. ------------------ NoctoZ Black Reign Curse Alliance
darth solo	Posted - 2003.08.31 17:18:00 - [8] Nice to hear a member of a pirate corp coming up with some inteligent comments. We all should be contributing to the game, regardless of gaming style.
Jerrico Delen	Posted - 2003.08.31 17:19:00 - [9] I like the system as it is now, insurance works as it should. You can't expect to insure a battleship for 100k isk, you need to pay a percentage of its value, like in real life. It's a great system, all it needs is a "no claims bonus" and some kind of penalty for those who are "bad drivers" and people who have a bad security rating (if concord is out to destroy your ship, the insurance company should consider you high risk). ======================================== Leodis Enteprises Corporation Small skilled UK based corp, apply if you think you have what it takes.
Moph	Posted - 2003.08.31 17:26:00 - [10] Hahahaha.. No, make the insurance 3 days !
Jarjar	Posted - 2003.08.31 17:32:00 - [11] Full insurance for a Megathron = 1/3 of it's current market value. EVERY WEEK.
Cao Cao	Posted - 2003.08.31 17:37:00 - [12] Make insurance a 1-time purchase and so that it gets progressively more expensive every time u get blown up. And make the insurance value of a ship = to the NPC mineral value of a 100me blueprint with production efficiency 5 that way you'll avoid scams.
Nirvy	Posted - 2003.08.31 18:33:00 - [13] Edited by: Nirvy on 31/08/2003 18:35:41 Agreed, for some of us getting the money for a bship is a months work. And then they expect us to pay one tird of its cost every week in insurance..lol..right..thats gonna happen If insurance was a one of thing (Still at the 1/3 cost) So many people would be able to go off and fight, safe in the knowledge they dont have to pay 30m a week to play it safe. Mercenary \| The Azath
Judicator	Posted - 2003.08.31 18:40:00 - [14] Currently I refuse to fly anything higher than a cruiser. I can afford a Battleship and 1 or 2 weeks of insurance but I'd prefer not to use all my cash for that. I like your idea, insurance lasts for teh duration of that ships life and if you keep getting them blown up insurance get's more expensive. This game is about having some fun, but currently the penalty is very, very harsh. In other games you lose some XP and so what, you still got that nice sword and armor not to mention your badass shield. In EVE it's back to basic if you sank all you cash into something and then loose it, unless you are wise like me and never risk stuff you can't afford to loose "I have tried for months and months to make m0o the most hated, the most despised corp in the galaxy and what happens? A stack of muppets named TTI comes along and just basically urinates on my bonfire." Stavr0s
Noctoz	Posted - 2003.08.31 18:49:00 - [15] Playing it safe many players will never see combat in a battleship even if they want to. the amonth of money it takes to afford to loose a battleship with the current system is unbearable for meny. ------------------ NoctoZ Black Reign Curse Alliance
Valeria	Posted - 2003.08.31 18:53:00 - [16] The least insurance and the most cost effective one costs 1/10 of mineral cost in NPC prices and gives you full reimbursment. 3.9 mill for 39 mill payout for example. This is pretty good already, me thinks. Especially with all these silly 1-run copies going around. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Presidio	Posted - 2003.08.31 19:03:00 - [17] The amount of money it takes to loose a BS should be unbarable to many. Not everyone should be in battleships I think. - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung
Alexia Te'Len	Posted - 2003.08.31 19:08:00 - [18] It's a little short-sighted to fly something like that in the first place, if you're unable to replace/insure it. This is why I'm sticking to Frigates. Can't blame the game for peoples' need to be "Uber".
Jarjar	Posted - 2003.08.31 19:17:00 - [19] Edited by: Jarjar on 31/08/2003 19:17:09 Quote: It's a little short-sighted to fly something like that in the first place, if you're unable to replace/insure it. This is why I'm sticking to Frigates. Can't blame the game for peoples' need to be "Uber". Try PvP vs. a battleship in a frigate. When you have a cruiser, getting money for a new one is (very) easy. When you have a battleship, getting money for a new one is fairly easy (i.e. takes some time, but MUCH less than the first time).
Alexia Te'Len	Posted - 2003.08.31 19:18:00 - [20] Quote: Try PvP vs. a battleship in a frigate. When you have a cruiser, getting money for a new one is (very) easy. When you have a battleship, getting money for a new one is fairly easy (i.e. takes some time, but MUCH less than the first time). Get close to the BS, and with the right set-up, and watch that stupid bugger try to track you. You're hardly going to take him down, but nor will he do the same to you. Besides, hardly going to get anything of value, or strike that great of a blow, to someone if they _are_ using a Frigate. My point still stands though, if you can't afford to maintain it then don't use it in the first place.
Snoop	Posted - 2003.08.31 19:18:00 - [21] insurance isnt expensive and even basic insurance almost covers the cost to build a ship ,and i thought m0o bought ships from corps that sell to them for cheap aswell as members of m0o aparently having bship bp's? ships dont need to be cheap and insurance doesnt need to last for ever if it did corp wars and regional war's would be stupid if theres barely anything to lose from it.
Hikaru Okuda	Posted - 2003.08.31 19:21:00 - [22] Edited by: Hikaru Okuda on 31/08/2003 20:25:59 Still, that's 3.9 mill a week. "But that's easy to make," you might say. Well maybe. But not everybody can play all the time and make that 3.9 mill. PvP is very fun; but it is very expensive unless you a) can play 24/7 to make the cash, or b) are in a large corp that can replace it with the stipulation you can only combat where THEY say you can. This is the first MMOG I've seen that for the most part does not penalize people that cannot play 24/7 (or play 8 accounts 24/7)... In other words, people that have jobs or other things to do can still log on a few hours a night and have fun playing this really great game. I've seen some other threads where people want to have stations start charging fees for storing stuff in your personal hangar, pay your ships' crew, pay for ship maintenance... That's like "screw you people with jobs, school, or family--if you can't play 24/7, don't play!" Come on! Some of us have lives outside of Eve AND we want to PvP. Right now it's just too expensive for some. (I do PvP, but generally have to save up for a long time before engaging... So lots of mining, etc.) Sure make the insurance cost high, but for the life of the ship or something. For some people 3.9 mil a week is a lot of money. And yes, it should be a lot of work and cost a lot of ISK to get to a battleship, and maybe a lot of work to get to the insurance amount... But in a few minutes that ship can be gone even if you are experienced--the best PvP is between experienced fighters ("best" as in "fun"). You should never invest everything in a ship and then run out and lose it. And I don't think Noctoz ever suggested that it should be so cheap that you don't EVER have to worry. It should be painful to lose a ship, but doesn't anyone think it's strange that getting podkilled is less painful than losing your ship? And you get a horrible security hit for killing a pod? You could be killed 20 times over in a pod and it would still not be as painful as loosing battleship (or a cruiser for that matter).
Kalle Port	Posted - 2003.08.31 19:45:00 - [23] One option would be the following. In stead of insurance per week in real time what about insurance per week of time you are actually online. It could be a timer that goes down every minute you are actually online. This would allow players who are not playing too much to still have an affordable insurance.
Noctoz	Posted - 2003.08.31 20:15:00 - [24] As said before this is not primarily a problem for me or for m0o. I have access to BPs for every single item in the game and can get everything except some of the really rare goodies really cheap. Assuming this is the situation for everyone though is to forget alot of players that don't play under those circumstances. And even if you can buy things cheap and normally afford insurance everyone have weeks when real life takes up alot of time. Should you then be forced to sit in station because you can't afford to pay insurance? Even 1/10th of the cost is quite a bit of money you know for quite a few people. ------------------ NoctoZ Black Reign Curse Alliance
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.08.31 20:41:00 - [25] My personal ensurance is having 2 or 3 battleships in a hangar, collecting dust... nothing hard with that... However its amazing how a cruiser can be made money from when you collect ensurance, and a battleship will make you lose money. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Outback	Posted - 2003.08.31 20:43:00 - [26]
Shintoko Akahoshi	Posted - 2003.08.31 20:46:00 - [27] Personally, I feel that this situation (people unwilling to risk their ships in combat) comes about from most peoples desire to fly the biggest ship they can afford. They save up the cost of a battleship, and think "Ah! Now I'm a badass, I can fly this battleship!". The thing is, if you can't afford to replace a ship, should you even be flying it? Battleships are huge, expensive beasts that really should only be fielded by people with the finances to handle them. This is not to say that those of us who only play a few hours a day (or week) would be left out of all the fun. One side effect of this race to aquire a battle ship is that most people shun smaller craft. My corp recently fought a conflict with a mercenary corp who flew only cheap frigates (all level 2, IIRC). This was a huge pile of fun. They were well organized and able to effectively counter us (who mostly fly cruisers) by working together against us. Even though we inflicted more ship losses against them than they did against us, they came out fine. Their ships probably only cost 200,000 isk, fully equipped. I fly a cruiser, myself. If I lost it, I could replace it out of pocket, fully equipped. If I scrimped and saved, I might be able to get myself into an entry level battleship, but then I'd have this ship that I couldn't afford to lose. I wouldn't want to go out into 0.0 space and hunt rats. I wouldn't want to help track down criminals. Sure, I could do it, but I'm having more fun in a ship I can truly afford to fly. There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense
Jarjar	Posted - 2003.08.31 22:41:00 - [28] Quote: Get close to the BS, and with the right set-up, and watch that stupid bugger try to track you. I had to try my loadout with the chaos tweaked weapons, so I went to chaos, equipped my ship and went out in a belt (in PF-346). Imagine my surprise when the serpentis frigates died in 1 volley, stasised at 400-600m! Four times in a row, so it wasn't pure luck either. Needless to say, I was using close range weapons. But yet, they're large. On TQ I'm having trouble tracking NPC cruisers at 2.5km and below when my ship isn't moving and the NPC ship is webbed.
SavX	Posted - 2003.08.31 23:18:00 - [29] Wow I was about to hit back and then I realised it was someone from M0o saying it If loosing your ship isn't a big deal, then getting one isn't really a big deal either. I think its fine the way it is. If you don't want to die, don't fight. And if your corp members think your a ***** for not fighting, HIDE behind them in battle ;) Don't Kill The Corp.. Kill the Suppliers.
agrizla	Posted - 2003.08.31 23:30:00 - [30] Edited by: agrizla on 31/08/2003 23:32:17 The idea about insurance covering you for "real-time" playing seems the best idea - if it is technically feasible of course. That way the insurance would cover a long enough period of time to make it actually worthwhile buying. You have to keep the insurance cost in perspective really - people buying insurance are generally people who can't afford to immediately replace the ship they are in. Hence it doesn't really matter to the person buying insurance whether it costs 30mill (for a BS) or 1 mill (for a cruiser) - it's a huge chunk of cash to them for a very small period of cover. If you can afford to replace the ship and equipment you have without it really bothering you then I bet you don't bother with insurance. Insurance needs a tweak and the "real time" option seems best as it doesn't open up the potential exploits that the other solutions do.

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