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Mar vel
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Posted - 2003.08.31 22:28:00 -
[1]
Fellow Players -
Once again I have had the mis-fortune of being subjected to another instance of those happy cammpers in Battleships who sit at the gates waiting for everyone/everything that passes by.
This is now the third or fourth time this has happened in as many weeks.
This is a particularly sore topic at the moment, and I have plenty to say about it.
Our cargo was being transferred from one office to another as we moved locations. We had to go through 0.0 territory to make this journey, there was no other way (Solitude Region). At the very last gate, big surprise - two Battleships to wipe out eveyone trying to pass. My Indy wasn't even armed, not that it would do much good anyhow.
All of our cargo was in secure containers - supposedly indestructible, as they recently raised the hit points to assuage this "Exploit" in the last patch. When I resumed play, I EM'd the individual and asked what it would take to be able to re-acquire my cargo. Too late, he said, we blew it up. When asked why, I was told "because it was fun."
Well the tragedy here folks is one that will repeat itself repeatedly. In those supposedly indestructible secure containers was the entire contents of our Corp's BPs and gear - 6 weeks worth of accumulated game play, and somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-100m worth of BPs. Irreplaceable, and even if it were, it would take another 6 weeks to build.
Now I don't have a problem with getting blown up for traversing a 0.0 system. I do have a problem with losing 6 weeks of gamplay because secure containers are blown up. What's the point, then?
I also have a big problem with the fact that the gap between the have / have-not's is widening. Only people in Battleships continue to prosper. Only the "select few" who get BP's of Miner 2's control a ridculously expensive trade market. When I discussed with the head of Techell, the main supplier of Miner 2's, they said they weren't in it for the money, and wanted to let everyone share in the wealth. Really? Is that why there's a 2 week waiting list for Miner 2's? Is that why they sell for 5m and cost 50k to make? Sorry- that just doesn't make sense to me, just like all of my equipment getting blown up, or being repeatedly killed by Battleship "Gate Campers", or losing my ships due to network lag or drops while engaged in combat.
I want to make it clear that I truly love this game - but sensibility says that the time investment is too great to continually be thrown backwards, never getting ahead, and always at the mercy of people who have played / accumulated longer. Sure, it's just like real life - well that may be true, but I want a GAME that's like real life, not another instance of opression, meyhem, extortion, and generally foul circumsances. Life is difficult enough, why re-live that twice?
Under the circumstances, what will prevail will be roaming Battleships with bored owners podding everything in sight, and mega-corps who get all the "special enhancements" for the game (e.g. Miner 2's). The new people will be stuck in .6-1.0 territiores, and even the more experienced will never be able to travel into anythng under a .5 system without risking utter destruction. New corps will diminish, competition will stagnate, and that will be that.
Of course given my luck, CCP will decide to implement new conditions as a result, long after I'm gone.
Given that our Corp, and my character has lost everything as a result of this incident, and given the lack of protection for such circumstances, I don't think I'll be able to return to play, even though I sincerely want to. Good luck to you new guys - you'll need it. And for those of you who are responsible for such poor conditions -shame on you for ruining such a great game.
Mar vel
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Singha Miasong
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Posted - 2003.08.31 22:35:00 -
[2]
Now the parisites will show, they always follow behind the griefers that you described...
CCP wants the game to be a pvp only game, fine, we have seen what happens, client base decreases daily. I wonder if anyone in CCP ever took a class related to business, economics, much less IT in general...
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.08.31 22:35:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
This is now the third or fourth time this has happened in as many weeks.
One thinks you would have learned your lesson by now.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.08.31 22:38:00 -
[4]
Quote:
client base decreases daily
Haha. Have some numbers or anything but your sour attitude and "wishful thinking" to back up this statement?
I'm willing to bet they're gaining plenty of customers daily.
I personally signed up, and will be convincing many of my friends to do so in the near future. Plenty of people out there like me! Think we outnumber you? I do! 
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
TekRa
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Posted - 2003.08.31 22:39:00 -
[5]
...maybe you should have sent a scout ahead to check the gates, or looked in the local channel for pirates, pod kills/ships destroyed on the map.
You walked right into a blockade, and yes, it's terrible you lost all your corps BPs. maybe you should have taken a little time to plan the move before running off in your unarmed indy. 
> With the lights out it's less dangerous. |
cold lazarus
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Posted - 2003.08.31 22:43:00 -
[6]
You moved your whole corp in one indi 100m worth of stuff and you never thought of hiring an escort ?
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calliope
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Posted - 2003.08.31 22:48:00 -
[7]
Edited by: calliope on 31/08/2003 22:49:19
Transfering all those vitally important items without the protection of an escort?
Even if they were in secure containers, that's asking for trouble. A couple of cruisers as escort would most likely have allowed you to escape with the cargo.
If that represented the future of your corporation, I would be inclined to say that you put all your eggs in one basket. You took the risk, you gambled, you lost. It's not nice, it's not fun, but as someone mentioned above, if this is not the first time it's happened ... I would have thought you'd have learned by now 
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.08.31 22:49:00 -
[8]
Quote:
You moved your whole corp in one indi 100m worth of stuff and you never thought of hiring an escort ?
Yah! Or moving it gradually over time instead of all at once?!
You took unecessary silly risks and paid a huge price for it.
It's not the pirates' fault so don't blame them.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
PsXDnS
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Posted - 2003.08.31 23:05:00 -
[9]
Who killed you? 
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Ourania
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Posted - 2003.08.31 23:15:00 -
[10]
It's not very smart to move that much expensive stuff trough 0.0 (or anywhere) in an indy without a scout. In the occasion we relocate we always devide all the expensive goods over the strongest ships and have someone scout ahead. the thing that does bother me is the fact that there are few real pirates who play it the way its supposed to be played .. they should have pinned you down and the least thing they can do is scan your cargo , and if you have all secure cargo they could have asked you to hand it over along with the keycode ,or give you an other option like paying money . And if you don't ,then they could take you out , but they should at least give you an option before shooting everything to bits. But this killen everything that moves is just plain dumb. We have FPS games for that ,don't we.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2003.08.31 23:21:00 -
[11]
I'm sorry for your losses, and I can understand how frustrating it must feel. But right or wrong, nothing you described here was against any rules I can think of. The game is designed with high sec space for safe travel and low sec space where it's not so safe.
I can agree that the destruction of your secure cargo containers is a bit pointless, but I wouldn't describe it as griefing, though that's just my opinion.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Valeria
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Posted - 2003.08.31 23:23:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Valeria on 31/08/2003 23:24:53
You'd think that people would understand that 0.0 security means infact, 0.0 security, thus players are free to do whatever they want. Yes, it's shocking. Turns out those numbers aren't just decoration after all, eh?
The guys who shot you down did nothing wrong. You on the other hand... transporting your corporations belongings through a 0.0 security system without escort! Sorry, but you're an idiot.
Edit: Also, trying to rely on an exploit to keep your cargo safe... and then whine when it doesn't work out. ROFL!
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2003.08.31 23:28:00 -
[13]
Quote:
client base decreases daily.
The only people I've seen leaving are hard core PvP-ers thanks to the Uber-CONCORD development and all. This game is an excellent asteroid miner simulator so you should be happy as a cow in India... 
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Richellieu
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Posted - 2003.09.01 00:16:00 -
[14]
They blew up the containers "because it whas fun".......nothing more nothing less. Fun, it is fun to destroy people's work for no other reason then the laugh of it. How sad....
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nono
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Posted - 2003.09.01 00:18:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Quote:
client base decreases daily
Haha. Have some numbers or anything but your sour attitude and "wishful thinking" to back up this statement?
I'm willing to bet they're gaining plenty of customers daily.
I personally signed up, and will be convincing many of my friends to do so in the near future. Plenty of people out there like me! Think we outnumber you? I do!
The numbers you seek have been pasted on these boards in numerous threads over several weeks. You may have chosen not to see them or overlooked them but rose coloured glasses tend to have this effect.
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.01 00:34:00 -
[16]
There were 5800 people on the Server a while ago.
I've frequently seen close to that number at other times as well.
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Saladin
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Posted - 2003.09.01 00:46:00 -
[17]
There are a few issues here in analyzing this crime perpetrated against you. The first is that the pirate in question showed his own moral bankruptcy in destroying your hard earned items.
That being said, it was a momumental blunder on your part to be travelling in this fashion. Such a move should be planned carefully. If your corp lacks the resources for an escort, then at the very least a corp member in an alt should have been scouting the path ahead of you looking for signs of trouble. Indies should be used to transfer the large bulky items (cheap minerals, mods, ammo etc). A fast a strong ship should have been used to transfer the bp's and valuable minerals (zydrine and megacyte). The way the game is designed right now, there is no reason to become a victim in a situation like this. Moving a corporation's base of operations is a huge undertaking, and what you have done sir would be the real world equivalent of transporting gold in a shopping trolly in a questionable neighborhood.
As for CCP saying that the secure containers are indestructible...I don't recall that term being used, but it is true that they have a lot of hit points. I've never accepted anything that CCP said at face value. They understimated so many things about this game. They underestimated how long it would take for players to acquire battelships, and in this instance they underestimated the amount of time and effort one player would put into destroying a secure container. If you were placing all your hopes on the fact that they were indestructable, then I don't know what to say
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(c) Copyright Saladin, 2005.
Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003. |
Missa
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Posted - 2003.09.01 01:16:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Missa on 01/09/2003 01:18:18
Wrangler said:
Quote:
I can agree that the destruction of your secure cargo containers is a bit pointless, but I wouldn't describe it as griefing, though that's just my opinion.
What do you define as griefing? I consider blowing up people's secure containers for S&G to be griefing...Maybe I am just bonkers though.
--Missa
New Siggy to Come Soon(tm) |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.01 01:42:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Now the parisites will show, they always follow behind the griefers that you described...
CCP wants the game to be a pvp only game, fine, we have seen what happens, client base decreases daily. I wonder if anyone in CCP ever took a class related to business, economics, much less IT in general...
Why the playerbase decreases is debateable. Looking at the number of ships/pods destroyed and comparing them against the concurrent population numbers, getting caught at a gate by pirates does not justify a decline in the playerbase. Such a comparison will bring you to understand extremely quickly less than 1% of the playerbase encounters a pirate.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Kozak
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Posted - 2003.09.01 02:00:00 -
[20]
The problem here is that this is the only MMORPG where you can loose everything instantly and it's very hard to get it back.
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Xen0
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Posted - 2003.09.01 02:08:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Xen0 on 01/09/2003 02:09:30
Quote:
Who killed you?
I did....
-=/Bah\=- |
Saladin
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Posted - 2003.09.01 02:43:00 -
[22]
Quote:
The problem here is that this is the only MMORPG where you can loose everything instantly and it's very hard to get it back.
I see your point here. I never thought about it that way. I tried to recall my previous MMOG experiences (UO and MCO) and found that in EVE you definitely do stand to loose more. In UO you didn't need blueprints to create anything. You simply needed the skill and raw materials and you could build things. Items like blueprints can represent hundreds of man hours of effort and can be lost in an instant. Nevertheless those who spent all those hours on acquiring those blueprints should have been equally vigilant to protect them
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(c) Copyright Saladin, 2005.
Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003. |
Singular
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Posted - 2003.09.01 02:59:00 -
[23]
Cry more Noober
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
Cymoril
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Posted - 2003.09.01 04:28:00 -
[24]
Did you check to see if they really did destroy those secure containers? They could simply be saying they did, as to cause you as much strife as possible. Not sure what size you used, but large ones supposedly have several million hit points, and even concentrated fire with beams over a LONG period of time it would take quite a while to destroy one. It really wouldn't be worth the effort 'just for fun'.
I would suggest making an alternate character and going back there and double checking for yourself. |
PsXDnS
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Posted - 2003.09.01 04:36:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Edited by: Xen0 on 01/09/2003 02:09:30
Quote:
Who killed you?
I did....
Actually it was both of us - he convo'ed me after we let loose and asked why we killed him and his cargo containers - one of those typical "im going to cancel my account because of you" convos, it was.
PsXDnS
Sinister Corporation
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Miss Veldspar
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Posted - 2003.09.01 05:08:00 -
[26]
Quote:
I'm sorry for your losses, and I can understand how frustrating it must feel. But right or wrong, nothing you described here was against any rules I can think of. The game is designed with high sec space for safe travel and low sec space where it's not so safe.
I can agree that the destruction of your secure cargo containers is a bit pointless, but I wouldn't describe it as griefing, though that's just my opinion.
Again Wrangler has missed the point of the post. But then CCP tends to miss the point quite often. It's not the fact that anything was done illegally, but that in a matter of seconds this game can go from being great to loosing weeks or months of hard work and time. If someone spends that much time working towards a goal, to just loose everything in such a short time, it really makes the game no fun at all. Every other pvp game I've played has had some form of loss control to prevent things like that from happening. CCP will continue to loose customers to this fact. Most games would've doubled, if not tripled, their playerbase in the first 3 months. But not Eve. I used to see 6-7k online on the weekends. Now I see 3-5k max. The subscriber base probably hasn't actually gone done, but the amount of happy players has. |
nono
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Posted - 2003.09.01 05:09:00 -
[27]
Quote:
There were 5800 people on the Server a while ago.
I've frequently seen close to that number at other times as well.
A while ago? Maybe even today since Sunday seems to be the best day for numbers.
I'd really like to say it's growing but I don't think it is sadly. Some one posted the average numbers over the past few months and it is indeed in decline.
One thing propping the numbers up is multiple accounts including mine
Here's a hint from Hellmar of you missed them in the past.
Quote:Hellmar > The amount of people with more than one copy is already rather high.
Some people have two three and four accounts. I figure the online numbers consist of at least 1000 multiple users which means 2000 online are the same people. I also figure about 1/3 is a more realistic number accounting for 2/3's of the population.
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.09.01 05:30:00 -
[28]
Just take a look here.
The playerbase is shrinking. Slowly shrinking, but shrinking.
free speech not allowed here |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.01 05:47:00 -
[29]
Quote:
It's not the fact that anything was done illegally, but that in a matter of seconds this game can go from being great to loosing weeks or months of hard work and time. If someone spends that much time working towards a goal, to just loose everything in such a short time, it really makes the game no fun at all.
It's you who misses the point. The point is it's his fault he lost all his possessions. He took huge risks, zero precautions, and paid the price. There's no excuse for this kind of laziness and stupidity, and the fact that it's punished in game is just fine with me.
Anyone who's willing to spend the extra time and effort being safe is not going to suffer from this problem.
If you are too impatient or lazy to do things safely, don't come here whining when you lose your stuff. Period.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.01 05:56:00 -
[30]
Quote:
The playerbase is shrinking. Slowly shrinking, but shrinking.
I see no evidence of a "slowly shrinking" playerbase on that page.
This game has not been in commercial release long enough to make a statement like that.
All online games experience a "surge" of players at the beginning, which slowly ebbs. This is due to several influences including players who come from other games looking for an alternative, but return to their original games when they find out it's "not for them" or not what they expected.
This is expected, and there's no indication on the page that this brief decline will continue or not reverse.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
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