| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Hubriss
   |
Posted - 2006.02.12 23:06:00 -
[1]
See a lot of posts about having the skills to fly a battleship before getting into one in fact seems like a thread about a BS doesn't mention this somewhere if it gets to two pages.
Question I have is how do most people define those skills? Let's say you're shooting for a megathron and want to be able to run a gate snipe setup and a blasterthron setup for PVEing. What's your skill spec and to what rank?
And I mean everything, targeting, turret skills, engineering, electronics, etc.
Thanks!
|
Rhuu
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 00:26:00 -
[2]
Engineering, electronics, and weapon upgrades 5 are required for most of the setups that get posted here.
From there, you need to figure out what you need to maximize your setup.
For a sniperthron, you'll need to up your sensor range skills and your damage dealing skills.
For a blasterthron, you'll need... more. You'll need to have your navigation, mechanic, drones, damage, tracking, and capacitor skills all at high levels. And you will need all of these. Even in PVE.
|
Alan Bell
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 01:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Alan Bell on 13/02/2006 01:51:29
too much hype about teh supercritical must have 5 everything crap.
i pve in dead end 0.0 systems with sub par skills in a domi. 5/4 drone, 2 L hybrid turret, 2 gall BS (think 3 now aiming for carrier) and i do fine. never go below half armor.
3 L neutrons, 3 med nos
1 ab, 4 t2 cap chargers
1 t2 LAP, 1 kinetic and thermal hardner (serps) 3 1600 plates and a t2 power diag.
made about a bill in a month or two...
Edit: 400k in gunnery.. lvl 3 weapon upgrades. 5 electronics and engineering ofc... (basic)
http://coldfusion.online-guild.com |
Caine
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 02:02:00 -
[4]
yeah it's possible to fly a battleship pretty quickly... But your not going to be able to compete against battle ship class targets for a while.
I try to avoid training skills to lvl 5 as the time could be spent better on more lower level skills.
But to be effective in a battleship verses targets designed for such you need a few lvl 3/4 skills in defense (be this armour or shields) and at least one type of large offensive system trained up (a mill or two minimum)
|
Alzion
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 05:36:00 -
[5]
The main problem with this question is that there is a difference between being able to fly a BS adaquatly and being able to fly a BS well. Most people on the forums suggest overpreparing yourself before you get in a BS.
In my opinion if you have the skills to fly a BS effectivly there is no reason not to.
As far as skills and levels go, I would suggest basic fitting skills at level 4, capacitor skills at level 4, and generic operation skills at levl 3. Also, you should be able to equip all the moduals used in the standard setups for your ship. Changing around a widely accepted setup because you don't have the skills to equip a mod is the worst thing you can do.
Heres a skill by skill breakdown for you:
Drones:
Drones lvl 4
Electronics:
Electronics lvl 4
Long Range Targeting lvl 3
Signature Analyst lvl 3
Targeting lvl 3
Engineering:
Energy Mangement lvl 4
Energy Systems Operation lvl 4
Engineering lvl 4
Gunnery:
Weapon Upgrades lvl 4
(following gunnery skill are N/A for Caldari BS)
Racial Small Turret lvl 3
Racial Medium Turret lvl 3
Racial Large Turret lvl 3
Controlled Bursts lvl 3
Gunnery lvl 4
Motion prediction lvl 3
Rapid Fire lvl 3
Sharpshooter lvl 3
Surgical Strike lvl 3
Trajectory Analysis lvl 3
Mechanic:
Hull Upgrades lvl 3
Mechanic lvl 3
Repair Systems lvl 3
Missles:
(optional depending on ship and setup)
Navigation:
Navigation lvl 3
Afterburner lvl 3
Fuel Conservation lvl 3
Evasive Manuvering lvl 3
Spaceship Command:
Racial Frigate skill lvl 4
Racial Cruiser skill lvl 4
Racial BS skill lvl 3
---------------------------------------------
I hear Linux can cure cancer and raise your sperm count. - Dionysus Davinci
|
Alliaanna Dalaii
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 08:04:00 -
[6]
What people seem to forget is that theres a difference between using your badly setup/skilled battleship Vs NPC's to another player  You may do fine against another player... but speaking as a pirate the amount of trully awfully setup battleships you find (from players too young to be flying them anyway) allways makes me feel all fuzzy inside  
Alliaanna
|
Yossar
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 09:51:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Alzion
Gunnery:
Weapon Upgrades lvl 4
(following gunnery skill are N/A for Caldari BS)
Racial Small Turret lvl 3
Racial Medium Turret lvl 3
Racial Large Turret lvl 3
Controlled Bursts lvl 3
Gunnery lvl 4
Motion prediction lvl 3
Rapid Fire lvl 3
Sharpshooter lvl 3
Surgical Strike lvl 3
Trajectory Analysis lvl 3
Nit - Trajectory Analysis and Large Turret require Gunnery 5. Cruise missiles for Caldari would require Missile Launcher Operation 5.
|
Porter Hadlend
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 10:04:00 -
[8]
I advice my corp members to wait because you can NPC just fine in a Battlecruiser a long time and there is no reason to make a 100 mil+ mistake.
--------------
Porter Hadlend
Round 2. |
Ryder Maitari
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 11:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ryder Maitari on 13/02/2006 11:29:43
For those who cannot wait to get in a BS, (presuming you are in a BC or Cruiser), train up for an AF, train your skills up to a decent level, and then proceed to BS. Those things can do most lvl3 missions and low security NPC spawns just fine. When you sit in a BC or BS, you are a large target, and therefore you need to be able to tank all damage, while the AFs simply avoid it.
|
inSpirAcy
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 13:50:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alzion
Heres a skill by skill breakdown for you:
I'm assuming this is an armor tanking setup. I'm one of those newbies who flies a battleship (Apoc) on ridiculously low SP for PVE, and I'd at least say these are a requirement:
Mechanic V
Hull Upgrades V
Mechanic V is a prereq for Large Armor Repairer II and Hull Upgrades V is a prereq for T2 active/passive armor hardeners. I really wouldn't leave home without either of these on L3s. And as pointed out, Gunnery V is a prereq for large turrets which make L3s much faster.
With these skills, my Apoc sails through L3s with ease. L4 is another matter, and needs a fair few of those skills to 4/5 IMO.
|
Alzion
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 15:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Yossar
Originally by: Alzion
Gunnery:
Weapon Upgrades lvl 4
(following gunnery skill are N/A for Caldari BS)
Racial Small Turret lvl 3
Racial Medium Turret lvl 3
Racial Large Turret lvl 3
Controlled Bursts lvl 3
Gunnery lvl 4
Motion prediction lvl 3
Rapid Fire lvl 3
Sharpshooter lvl 3
Surgical Strike lvl 3
Trajectory Analysis lvl 3
Nit - Trajectory Analysis and Large Turret require Gunnery 5. Cruise missiles for Caldari would require Missile Launcher Operation 5.
jeez, so i missed the prereqs for 2 skills by a level. I consider that pretty good since I wrote this list from the myeve charectersheet.
Quote:
I'm assuming this is an armor tanking setup. I'm one of those newbies who flies a battleship (Apoc) on ridiculously low SP for PVE, and I'd at least say these are a requirement:
Mechanic V
Hull Upgrades V
Mechanic V is a prereq for Large Armor Repairer II and Hull Upgrades V is a prereq for T2 active/passive armor hardeners. I really wouldn't leave home without either of these on L3s. And as pointed out, Gunnery V is a prereq for large turrets which make L3s much faster.
With these skills, my Apoc sails through L3s with ease. L4 is another matter, and needs a fair few of those skills to 4/5 IMO.
how about reading the beginning of my post? The ability to use a T2 tank is great but, its hardly a requirment. When I started flying a BS I did lvl 3 missions with ease in a completely "stock" setup. You have to keep in mind that new players can get a lot more bang for there buck training base skills to lvl 3-4 then trying to train for T2 immediatly.
People have been flying BSs long before T2 came out.
---------------------------------------------
I hear Linux can cure cancer and raise your sperm count. - Dionysus Davinci
|
inSpirAcy
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 16:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Alzion
how about reading the beginning of my post? The ability to use a T2 tank is great but, its hardly a requirment.
How about you read mine?
I am a low SP newbie flying an Apoc, and I consider T2 repper/armor essential to solo'ing L3s. If you disagree, that's fine, I'm just offering my opinion; the combined resistance benefit (on passive and active mods, of which you'll have both) and improved armor repair rate (ok, you could subsitute a named T1; the best are expensive though) are a huge benefit, and necessary, for the SP you put in.
Far bigger problem on an Apoc is cap, anyway. Your skills won't sustain cap with large turrets, intermittent repper and hardeners without more SP on Racial Battleship and energy. How do I know? Because I fly with this SP and with two cap rechargers and a cap relay. I watch the cap drop mid-mission on a regular basis. 
|
Alzion
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 19:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
I am a low SP newbie flying an Apoc
You've illistrated my point right there.
The Apoc was my first Battleship, I ground scordite in a Osprey for 3 weeks to afford it. And I was a newbie BS pilot then as much as you are now. But, currently i'm a vet with the benifiet of over a year in experience and extreamly valuable hindsight on how to use a BS, especially with low skills and low budget.
I began flying the apoc with level 3 cap skills, which don't take much more than a day to train. I was able to indefinatly tank every ship on a level on every non-drone mission w/ a standard large repairer and 3 hardeners. In the recent patchs missions have become eaisier than they were before, so if your having difficulty your doing something wrong.
For starters the type of armor repairer you use does not change the ammount of cap used, only the ammount of armor repaired every cycle. Second, im currently using 4 of the highest non-faction cap moduals on my apoc, thats 20%^4 bonus on top of maxed capacitor skills and Battleship levl 4. The fact that your using 3 cap mods and have lower skills than me is a good indication why your running out of cap.
When I started my apoc setup was:
8 Heavy Pulse Lasers
1x 100mn AB 2x Cap Recharger 1x Webber
1x Repper 3x Rat specific hardener 3x Cap Power Relay
maybe you should give that a try.
---------------------------------------------
I hear Linux can cure cancer and raise your sperm count. - Dionysus Davinci
|
Tido Maliyu
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 19:24:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tido Maliyu on 13/02/2006 19:23:51
Ceptors are uber for npc'ing...
They can avoid fire when you orbit, and they have a really good damage bonus.
Just make sure you dont approach directly as that will lead to friggy's getting insta-popped...
--------------------------
Draximus Cane: wheat barley kill anything? are you oats of your mind? I corn belive you just said that, rice I' |
Ashelth
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 19:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Far bigger problem on an Apoc is cap, anyway. Your skills won't sustain cap with large turrets, intermittent repper and hardeners without more SP on Racial Battleship and energy. How do I know? Because I fly with this SP and with two cap rechargers and a cap relay. I watch the cap drop mid-mission on a regular basis.
0_0
Two things:
level 3 missions = MEDIUM guns. Fit that apoc with 8x heavy beams and a webber or two, you'll cut through everything.
An apoc tank is 2x LAR II, 3x hardeners 2x relays 4x cap rechaters -- Should work indefinately with Amarr bs 3, Energy systems operation/management 3.
|
inSpirAcy
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 21:16:00 -
[16]
Edited by: inSpirAcy on 13/02/2006 21:16:58
Originally by: Ashelth
level 3 missions = MEDIUM guns. Fit that apoc with 8x heavy beams and a webber or two, you'll cut through everything.
Until you've spent a lot more SP in gunnery, mega beams do a far better job of cutting up cruisers. Believe me, my Ferox (with heavy missiles, 30K SP  ) can take down a cruiser in a few volleys at 40km; my poor Apoc would have to close nearly 25 more km just to be at optimal, or it would have to use gimped damage crystals.
Mediums work great on a Prophecy because it can close the cap between itself and cruisers a lot quicker. A BS can't do that; not on low SP in MWD-less deadspace, at any rate.
|
inSpirAcy
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 21:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Alzion
When I started my apoc setup was:
8 Heavy Pulse Lasers
1x 100mn AB 2x Cap Recharger 1x Webber
1x Repper 3x Rat specific hardener 3x Cap Power Relay
maybe you should give that a try.
Yeah, because I bought a BS to go afterburning around to get cruisers into my 10km optimal. 
If I wanted to do that, I'd have kept my Prophecy. My idea of taking a BS into level 3, overkill as it is, is to finish them more quickly. That means mega beams with crystals of an optimal around 15-30km, so you don't have to move except between gateways.
6x Mega Modulated Beam Laser I
2x Heavy Modulated Pulse Laser I
1x Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners (for transport, not for missions)
2x Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array
1x Target Painter I
1x Large Armor Repairer II
1x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
2x Armor (Specific) Hardener II
1x Heat Sink I
1x Capacitor Power Relay I
1x Tracking Enhancer I
3x Beserker SW-900 Webber Drones (don't ask... )
Clearly some of that needs upgrading to T2, but that's the minimum I'd take out.
I appreciate that your setup is more newbie-friendly, Alzion, and I thank you for the lower-cap setup. We just differ on our aims in using a BS in L3.
|
Porter Hadlend
|
Posted - 2006.02.13 21:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Alzion
Originally by: inSpirAcy
When I started my apoc setup was:
8 Heavy Pulse Lasers
1x 100mn AB 2x Cap Recharger 1x Webber
1x Repper 3x Rat specific hardener 3x Cap Power Relay
That's not a bad example of a 100mil+ mistake waiting to happen.
--------------
Porter Hadlend
Round 2. |
Alzion
|
Posted - 2006.02.14 00:26:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Alzion on 14/02/2006 00:26:27
Originally by: Porter Hadlend
Originally by: Alzion
Originally by: inSpirAcy
When I started my apoc setup was:
8 Heavy Pulse Lasers
1x 100mn AB 2x Cap Recharger 1x Webber
1x Repper 3x Rat specific hardener 3x Cap Power Relay
That's not a bad example of a 100mil+ mistake waiting to happen.
Do you care to iterate on that? Or did you just see that I wasn't using large guns and decide to write it off.
If you arn't going to snipe then heavy pulses are better than large for level 3 missions. Theres no "chasing" involved in this setup you aggro all enemies in the level and tank while switching crystals depending on range. Keeps all the loot in one place and lets you use your guns and drones constantly. Unless you can show me a turret BS that can clear out a extravaganza mission in less than 40 minutes I think ill stick to this setup for level 3s.
---------------------------------------------
I hear Linux can cure cancer and raise your sperm count. - Dionysus Davinci
|
Porter Hadlend
|
Posted - 2006.02.14 02:13:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Porter Hadlend on 14/02/2006 02:15:25
Edited by: Porter Hadlend on 14/02/2006 02:14:38
I will concede that it will work in some situations. The problem I have with it isn't so much your set up given the scenario.
What I struggle with is the fact that in my estimation there are far too many pilots underqualified flying Battleships. Many will read a thread like this and see a set up like that and instantly think "I have those skills!" and rush out and buy one.... and promptly lose it, and then just as fast as they lost it, post about how Battleships need a buff, which as a whole they won't, but there are a loathsome number of threads already that are innane and redundant.
I am firm believer in learning the basics in smaller ships to establish good fighting doctrine and methodology then graduating and escalating the proportion to the battleship.
Same reason why before I tried any battleship (I have the skills to fly any T1 ship and most T2 ships out there, except for amarr hacs and some of the new RMR ships) I tried a cruiser or battlecruiser with the same focus. Tried a Cyclone before an AC Tempest for instance. Tried a Prophecy with heavy pulses before a gankageddon. etc.
It's not always a perfect analogy and doesn't always equate exactly, but it often gives me great insight into the type of ship I'm considering dropping 60-110 mil on.
There is nothing wrong persay with your ship set up for a Level 3 mission, it's overkill, but nothing wrong with it.
Where I draw issue is when noobs will rush on here and try to apply to every other situation out there.
edit for typos
--------------
Porter Hadlend
Round 2. |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |