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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
ArchenTheGreat
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Posted - 2006.02.14 13:04:00 -
[1]
Make three kinds of WCS: low, medium and highslot. Every WCS should increase locking time by 200% (or 300% - it's debatable) and should stack on the same stack with sensor boosters and sensor enchancers and remote sensor boosters.
Hauler will be happy because they would use med slot version. People moving BS would be happy because they can fit WCS to all available slots.
Well, snipers would be unhappy and all people who pack stabs and go to fight. But it's exactly what I want.
I hunt in EC lately and I am bored of all those Thoraxes with 4 stabs or interceptors and assault frigs with stabs. If it goes to fight it shouldn't be stabbed.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.02.14 13:12:00 -
[2]
well, why not that - when a ship agroed on another player, not on a npc, then the wcs dont work for a specific amount of time.
its like the undock,dock thingie then. wouldnt hurt traveller or haulers, just ppl who cant pvp without wcs. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.02.14 13:25:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 14/02/2006 13:26:15 Just give Stabs a "power-up" time. ie: If someone scrambles you the WCS kicks in and it will take XX ammount of time in seconds for the WCS to stabilise the warp core enough to attempt a jump.
Higher +2 WCS (and multiple Stabs) decrease the time it takes to stabilies enough for warp, and higher level scramblers (I dont actually know if you get -2 scramblers, I've not used them) increases the time it takes for a ship to stabilise its warp core. Stacking penalties should apply.
Does this not make sense? Stabs should not be an instant "Bye-Bye" option.
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.02.14 13:31:00 -
[4]
Great idea really...
The very most important thing is to make sure that they won't be used as much in pvp.. people who pvp with 4-8 stabs should also get a HUGE penalty.
With great power, comes great responsibility. |
Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.02.14 13:31:00 -
[5]
All rubbish ideas.
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.02.14 13:34:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Godar Marak All rubbish ideas.
....then reply with suggestions rather than just saying that what we come up with is useless. Its a Forum. You Debate. You dont just troll.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.14 13:36:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/02/2006 13:36:57 The topic is blatent flamebait.
Anyway, the op's ideas are not new, not good and are frankly amusing given how the op repeatedly stated "his view" in a topic supposed to solve issues for everyone.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.02.14 13:41:00 -
[8]
The problem is not with WCS's or warp scramblers. Its with the people not getting their BOOM fix, or power fix i you like that better. All suggestions move towards it beeing harder to counter scramblers. That WCS are instant 'bye bye' options is true, but scramblers are also instant 'STOP' option, so it fair. If anything should be done, it should be made chance based like jamming is now.
Anyways.. let the BBQ begin
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Darth Cheaney
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Posted - 2006.02.14 13:53:00 -
[9]
Quote: Does this not make sense? Stabs should not be an instant "Bye-Bye" option.
I thought games were about balance? Warp Scramblers/Disruptors are an instant lock down option. Shouldn't there be an equally powerful countermeasure?
I for one will stop running minerals and supplies into < .5 space if they nerf WCS. I understand there should be a risk and there is (Pirate could have 2 or more jammers). I just don't understand why people complain about something that seems perfectly fair in my eyes. You fit a jammer, I can fit the countermeasure. Both are taking valuable slots. All the pirates want is a I win button.
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Alliaanna Dalaii
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Posted - 2006.02.14 13:54:00 -
[10]
Im sorry but ive seen enough WCS threads allready thanks.
Stabs are fine, and im a pirate... who only wears them for travel setups. lots of times this week targets have got away due to them having 3+ stabs on their battleships. result = were no longer offering ransoms if the target is moving
Instead of whining about your incompitence to catch targets how about you just put more scramble strength on them... or gank them.. theres an idea
Alliaanna
Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-= |
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TribalBleb
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:02:00 -
[11]
change based warp scrambling would kill ransoming, i think wcs should get a penalty though since they are imo a little bit overpowered and yes i use them as well in certain situations.
Some good nerfs would be:
- damage penalty on any guns and missile launchers - shield/armor penalty (for example 20% less armor and shield resistances per wcs) - make wcs fit in high slots only
above things are probably not new they are pretty obvious solutions im sure someone has mentioned those things somewhere before.
--------------- pie 4tw |
Kay Han
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: TribalBleb
- make wcs fit in high slots only
as a long time WCS user i have to agree here.
More place for BCU¦s on a raven \O/ ___________________________________________ A wise man said once: 'Violence is the escape of the mentaly poor guys.'
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:06:00 -
[13]
Yea, because Tempests with 6 1400mm, 2 WCS, and a full rack of tracking comps, traching enhancers and damage mods would be SO great. Well, it'd be GOOD at sniping, but even more corrosive to gameplay than current snipers, who at least need to sacrifice lows for WCS.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
St Dragon
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:23:00 -
[14]
Make it so that if you are succesfully warp scrambled you cant use a gate either. This would then mean ransoming will be viable. -----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
TribalBleb
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Yea, because Tempests with 6 1400mm, 2 WCS, and a full rack of tracking comps, traching enhancers and damage mods would be SO great. Well, it'd be GOOD at sniping, but even more corrosive to gameplay than current snipers, who at least need to sacrifice lows for WCS.
hehe, yea didnt think of that, how about this then: make wcs only fit in turret and launcher hardpoints
Doesn't make any sence does it, ok scrap that one from the list lol
--------------- pie 4tw |
Q'unt
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:38:00 -
[16]
I think to make it ballanced and fare you need to make a wcs system that has the following points.
Sacrifices a low slot as all ships need them for combat
Each WCS counts as a single unit [therefore meaning to counte a ship with 1 you need 1 as well]
Hmmmm seems similar to what we have perhaps they dont need changing apart from what S Dragon said make it so gates dont work if jammed.
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Deros
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Deros on 14/02/2006 14:44:17 quick edit:
this view is given as a pvp'r, but dont take that as being against stabs. they have a role, and without an escape, there is no chase. where would the fun be in a guarranteed kill each time? but the problem is risk without loss as i hope my idea for them would change.
while a stacking penalty would work, i dont think that it would help greatly, as the problem would then be thrown onto scramblers as well, and as a result, the same scenario but smaller numbers.
imo all stabs need is an agility modifier. with a reversed stacking penalty.
aka : 1 stab, barely noticeable effect. 2 stabs, moving slower 3, am i in a battleship or a titan 4, this thing moves like a moon 5, still around a moon 6-7 freighter style.
//edit: thinking on the side, a change to industrials to negate this effect for 1-2 would be needed as they arent the quickest things already. // ok, so maybe a battleship moving like a moon is an exaguration, but it makes the point.
Deros
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Q'unt
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Deros while a stacking penalty would work, i dont think that it would help greatly, as the problem would then be thrown onto scramblers as well, and as a result, the same scenario but smaller numbers.
imo all stabs need is an agility modifier. with a reversed stacking penalty.
aka : 1 stab, barely noticeable effect. 2 stabs, moving slower 3, am i in a battleship or a titan 4, this thing moves like a moon Moons move faster than interceptors in real life 5, still around a moon Moons move faster than interceptors in real life 6-7 freighter style.
ok, so maybe a battleship moving like a moon is an exaguration, but it makes the point.
Deros
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Amarr knight
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Posted - 2006.02.14 15:01:00 -
[19]
Originally by: TribalBleb change based warp scrambling would kill ransoming, i think wcs should get a penalty though since they are imo a little bit overpowered and yes i use them as well in certain situations.
Some good nerfs would be:
- damage penalty on any guns and missile launchers - shield/armor penalty (for example 20% less armor and shield resistances per wcs) - make wcs fit in high slots only
above things are probably not new they are pretty obvious solutions im sure someone has mentioned those things somewhere before.
WCS is a very important mod for travelling and hauling. Giving it defensive penalty is a bad idea.
After suffering serious penalties from t2 ammo i think its a good idea to give wcs same kind of penalties. Fitting wcs will nerf tracking, missile damage and stuff like that. That way PVP ships wont be able to use them , but other ship will have no problem with them.
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:03:00 -
[20]
After testing my new flycatcher for a few days I must say I don't really see stabs as a problem any more. At least not in 0.0. These new interdictor probes will change 0.0 warfare as we know it.
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Tennessee Jack
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:18:00 -
[21]
You understand there is already a Penalty for using Warpcore Stabalizers..
1) You lose a slot to using this thing 2) You lose a slot that could be used for Damage mods, resistance mods, repairers, plates, etc etc etc.
If you fit 4 of these things.. you are most likely already gimping your tank and/or damage.
Warpcore Stabalizers are fine in their present iteration. The present issue is Warp Jamming (which causes people to fit alot of warpcore stabs on).
This all or nothing concept needs to be reinvented. Chance based might be an idea. Also giving some ships inherent warpcore stab bonuses is another (anything bigger than a cruiser, not including cruisers, could get a +1 (BS +2) to warpcore stability. Cause a Single ship 1/25 of the size of a battleship should not be able to warpjam a Giant BS using a cheap@ss Tech 1 +2 to Warpjam module.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hoshi After testing my new flycatcher for a few days I must say I don't really see stabs as a problem any more. At least not in 0.0. These new interdictor probes will change 0.0 warfare as we know it.
Yaaarrrr... problem is, need more interdictors pilots ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! [white]Jenny Spitfire podded me [:oop |
Krulla
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists well, why not that - when a ship agroed on another player, not on a npc, then the wcs dont work for a specific amount of time.
its like the undock,dock thingie then. wouldnt hurt traveller or haulers, just ppl who cant pvp without wcs.
Awesome idea!
This would provide a perfect solution - a end to stab whoring, but would still make traveling with them possible.
Respect the Domi. Or else. |
TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:24:00 -
[24]
Edited by: TuRtLe HeAd on 14/02/2006 16:26:41 The problem is That fitting a WCS is the same for a BS as it is for a Frigate.
Heres what I think. (Numbers outta my head, they can be changed) Strength 1 And fitting Over size holds no bonus, its just stupid.
100mn WCS 500PG 100cpu 10mn WCS 100PG 75cpu 1mn WCS 1PG 30cpu
And then do the usual as you would on a MWD 100 mn to BS 10mn to cruiser/hauler etc........
That would soon stop a BS fitting 8 WCS And still being combat efficient.
------------------------------------------------ I Pity the Fool ! |
Blind Man
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:39:00 -
[25]
When activated this unit attempts to compensate for fluctuations and disruptions of the ships warp core.
Penalty: -100% Targeting Penalty.
Penalty: Using more than one type of this module or similar modules that affect the same attribute on the ship will be penalized.
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Tribunal
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:44:00 -
[26]
No
These ideas were bad the last 50 times I read them. Here is a hint-
mid slot
Need another hint?
mod
How about another?
warp
Here is your last hint!
scrambler
Use the tools CCP has given you and stop crying over this dead horse topic.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Bl4zer
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:44:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Bl4zer on 14/02/2006 16:44:14 WCS again - how to make everyone happy Well, as the person who is using the stabs is not going to be happy if they get blown up, while the person who is going to win the fight is not going to be happy if they escape. So I think it is impossible to make everyone happy.
I personally don't use stabs, but I use ECM a lot. Usually this is to disable the big ships but if things are getting hairy I will jam the tacklers and escape this way.
Or if I am in a small fast ship with a web and mwd, I will web the tackler and fly out of range of the scam.
Or I will just blow the tackler up. There is nothing quite so gratifying as triple webbing and target painting an inty and watch him die in a couple of salvos from my bs.
So, IMO, even if we were to get rid of stabs the whiners would be back with nerf ECM/WMD/webbers/whatever threads.
Save the Ubar asteroids
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Mishima
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:46:00 -
[28]
Noob ideas
NEXT
I love x-mas :D |
PeveS
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:48:00 -
[29]
Just dont change stabs - They are fine now
They costs a lot of CPU. And im always low on CPU.
A tackler frig can fit 2 x 7.5 km scramblers. So it can Scramble +4. If you choose to fit 4 WCS on a ship you have a reason for it.
Cruiser/HAC Now peeps that fit more then 1 WCS on a small ship like cruiser or HAC cant fit the ship anyway and would not do much damage (or tank). If they get out...they are lucky and the opponet had to use better tacklers.
Haulers If you fit a WCS on hauler...you cant fit any nano's or hull expanders. I dont see any problems with that? We just see the hauler more often! Bubble if you are in 0.0 or get better tacklers.
Frigs You loose to much CPU for any decent fitting (except a Assault frig). Af's are slow, any inty can tackle them with a 7.5 scram.
BS'es 1 or 2 WCS is often used. When your outnumberred or dont have that much isk like all t2 BPO owners do! I can imagine you want a possible escape with your expensive ship. But then again, any vigil with 2x7.5 scram will hold it down.
BS'es Then some fit even more stabs. Now what BS-pilots would do that? 1) Me for example! I sometimes fit 4 on a gank setup. Why....if 15 hostiles are in local, and have no buddies close and still want to have some fun without to be killed for sure...4 wcs may help (for 1 or 2 times). How to counter it? Use a convert ops with 3x7.5km scram and wait... or a gang of 5 BS will gank me anyway before i can warp out.
2) A Scorpion in bigger gangs. Those guys are always primary. Get them a possible escape. If they are away, they cant do their job anyway. And a scorp also can be tackled easy.
Conclusion:
Stop whining and be creative, there is always a way to tackle peeps with WCS. Use Bubbles, multi Scram tacklers, interdictors or plain fast firepower.
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Jabba DaSlut
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:51:00 -
[30]
hope the WCS II will have a strength 2
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