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Gerboah Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.11.12 13:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi All
No doubt this will get shot down in flames but what about having a probe type that allows the scanning down of salvage - all those left over wrecks from missions and such like are valuable resource ... plus for us ninja salvagers it would make that process a little less fraught ...
Fly Safe.-á
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Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards
The Bastards.
177
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gerboah Cobon-Han wrote:Hi All
No doubt this will get shot down in flames but what about having a probe type that allows the scanning down of salvage - all those left over wrecks from missions and such like are valuable resource ... plus for us ninja salvagers it would make that process a little less fraught ...
If salvaging someone else's wrecks makes u go Suspect i have no problem with it |
Jamagh
Grand Violations
71
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not only does it make you suspect, but anyone in that persons corp/alliance can then warp to you and shoot you with impunity. Even in hisec. And concord will help them. Not by shooting you. Just scramming and webbing you.
"Please stop reopening silly rumor threads."-á CCP Navigator. |
Xearal
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
720
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Silly trolls...
I like the idea, for one, ninja salvagers and newbie salvagers can then go find those mission wrecks in high sec that people left behind. I know I generally don't salvage unless I have someone with me doing it for me who gets a cut of the loot.
Having the ability to go into space and find those left behind wrecks by others would make a great profession for some people.
Taking the loot would still make them suspect unless it's abandoned ofc, but hey, no risk, no reward.
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acemastr Ocer
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.11.12 14:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
+1 this |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17354
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's been a longstanding request to finalise the whole salvaging mini-profession. Apparently, there's some nasty combination of technical restraints and causing huge database loads that keeps it from happening.
One would think that, when a wreck is spawned, it could also create a GÇ£wreck beaconGÇ¥ on that very grid, and any additional wreck creations then add to the signal strength of that beacon.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
Setting The Universe on Fire
163
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
NOOOOOO. This would suck. You are already very vulnerable when salvaging anoms but at least you can cloak if you see combats on dscan with this they would just be able to warp to the site and wait for you. |
Dkeh Weis
Frankenmouse Inc
Frankenmouse
16
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Posted - 2013.11.12 14:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It's been a longstanding request to finalise the whole salvaging mini-profession. Apparently, there's some nasty combination of technical restraints and causing huge database loads that keeps it from happening.
One would think that, when a wreck is spawned, it could also create a GÇ£wreck beaconGÇ¥ on that very grid, and any additional wreck creations then add to the signal strength of that beacon.
This is an excellent idea.
|
Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
363
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:NOOOOOO. This would suck. You are already very vulnerable when salvaging anoms but at least you can cloak if you see combats on dscan with this they would just be able to warp to the site and wait for you.
This was my first thought also. You could find people's mission sites even when they have warped out.
Besides, if you wanted to implement this, wouldn't it make more sense to have wrecks as something you can find with existing probes? |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards
The Bastards.
177
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xearal wrote:Silly trolls...
I like the idea, for one, ninja salvagers and newbie salvagers can then go find those mission wrecks in high sec that people left behind. I know I generally don't salvage unless I have someone with me doing it for me who gets a cut of the loot.
Having the ability to go into space and find those left behind wrecks by others would make a great profession for some people.
Taking the loot would still make them suspect unless it's abandoned ofc, but hey, no risk, no reward.
Iam not trolling. I do like it and think you should be able to scan down wrecks. but also that stealing the wreck as that is what your doing by salvageing someone else's wreck it sould be treated the same as can fliping or taking loot from wrecks....
Suspect flag fo it and its all good i will do it my self lolz |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17355
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:[Iam not trolling. I do like it and think you should be able to scan down wrecks. but also that stealing the wreck as that is what your doing by salvageing someone else's wreck it sould be treated the same as can fliping or taking loot from wrecks.... GǪexcept, of course, that you're not stealing the wrecks since they don't belong to anyone. They're just a natural resource hanging around waiting for extraction, like asteroids.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards
The Bastards.
177
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lord LazyGhost wrote:[Iam not trolling. I do like it and think you should be able to scan down wrecks. but also that stealing the wreck as that is what your doing by salvageing someone else's wreck it sould be treated the same as can fliping or taking loot from wrecks.... GǪexcept, of course, that you're not stealing the wrecks since they don't belong to anyone. They're just a natural resource hanging around waiting for extraction, like asteroids.
See this is where we disagree that person has worked and risked their ship to create that wreck. so what ur saying is along the lines of that miner ore in his hold is just a natural resource so i should be able to take that ore from his cargo hold. does not matter that he has spent the time mining it. |
Taal Khurin
Happy Asteroid Ltd
69
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:Tippia wrote:Lord LazyGhost wrote:[Iam not trolling. I do like it and think you should be able to scan down wrecks. but also that stealing the wreck as that is what your doing by salvageing someone else's wreck it sould be treated the same as can fliping or taking loot from wrecks.... GǪexcept, of course, that you're not stealing the wrecks since they don't belong to anyone. They're just a natural resource hanging around waiting for extraction, like asteroids. See this is where we disagree that person has worked and risked their ship to create that wreck. so what ur saying is along the lines of that miner ore in his hold is just a natural resource so i should be able to take that ore from his cargo hold. does not matter that he has spent the time mining it.
Indeed, i have never understood why the contents of a wreck is any different from the wreck itself. Either both should flag you or neither. |
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
127
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Carebears detected...
Salvage is salvage, not loot. +1 for request. |
Xavier Higdon
Wolfbane Hauler Inc
85
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:Tippia wrote:Lord LazyGhost wrote:[Iam not trolling. I do like it and think you should be able to scan down wrecks. but also that stealing the wreck as that is what your doing by salvageing someone else's wreck it sould be treated the same as can fliping or taking loot from wrecks.... GǪexcept, of course, that you're not stealing the wrecks since they don't belong to anyone. They're just a natural resource hanging around waiting for extraction, like asteroids. See this is where we disagree that person has worked and risked their ship to create that wreck. so what ur saying is along the lines of that miner ore in his hold is just a natural resource so i should be able to take that ore from his cargo hold. does not matter that he has spent the time mining it.
Yea, I would have to agree. Salvaging is not difficult as is, just ask in local in mission hubs and you'll often find people willing to let you salvage, and often loot, their wrecks free of charge for low level missions. Myself, I have an alt I use for that, but I wait until the mission is cleared to bring him in. If the game is going to allow someone to potentially take the wrecks I haven't gotten to yet by such a passive method(after all, scanning down an NPC free mission site provides no risk), I should be allowed to defend them. Now if someone scans my combat ship down and comes in during the fight, risking their ship in the process, I don't mind that, and I would even go as far as abandoning those wrecks so that they can tractor them. But you're asking for a risk free reward, whereas I've risked my ship to create those wrecks.
A proud member of Wolfbane Hauler Inc. We are currently recruiting pilots of all skill levels. We need both industrial combat specialists. For more information see our ad:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3764273&#post3764273 |
Tydeth Gilitae
Magewright Artificers
34
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Posted - 2013.11.12 15:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
The difference is Concord doesn't care about the wreck itself, only the contents as that's where the real value is going to be. The wrecks themselves are just debris floating through space endangering ships and stations, so anyone willing to suck them up is welcome to do so in Concord's view.
When you salvage a wreck containing unlooted goods, the contents are transfered to a newly spawned can, which has the same owner as the original wreck. |
Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
165
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
I am fine with salvage probes, but there should also be counter in the form of salvage probe jammer. Not foolproof one, but something to make it harder. |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards
The Bastards.
177
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
Karak Bol wrote:Carebears detected...
Salvage is salvage, not loot. +1 for request.
year iam defo a carebear lol at -8.1 carebear alert |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
115
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
There is no need to hand hold ninja salvagers. You need to keep the scanning aspect in the loop as is. I mean I know they destroyed the old exploration profession with scanning lite, why would people want more of that kind of auto terrible hand holding.....I think the population of EVE has been infiltrated by the make it easy crowd. This sucks cold monkey balls. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17366
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 15:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:See this is where we disagree that person has worked and risked their ship to create that wreck. The difference is that CCP agrees with me, and that the entire mechanic has been designed to work the way I describe it.
The person who created the wreck is already being rewarded for his work GÇö the salvage is not part of that reward. Instead, it's the reward for a completely separate profession (salvaging) which offers its own set of effort and reward.
Quote:so what ur saying is along the lines of that miner ore in his hold is just a natural resource so i should be able to take that ore from his cargo hold. does not matter that he has spent the time mining it. No. That is not even close to what I'm saying. You're confusing wreck and salvage, and ore and asteroid.
The ore has already been extracted GÇö the effort required to claim ownership has been expended. It now sits in its owner's cargo hold and you are not allowed to steal it. In fact, you can't steal it without blowing him up, which is usually an illegal act all on its own.
It works exactly the same for salvage: it has already been extracted GÇö the effort required to claim ownership has been expanded. The only way to steal salvage is to blow up the owner and take it from his cargo hold.
We're talking about the wreck here GÇö not the salvage. The wreck is not yours any more than the asteroid is yours. If you want to own the salvage or ore, you have to spend the time and effort to make it yours by mining the asteroid or salvaging the wreck. The results of that work GÇö the ore and salvage, respectively GÇö is yours. So you can't steal wrecks for the same reason as you can't steal asteroids: because no-one owns them. You can steal salvage just like you can steal ore, but that's an entirely different mechanism (or two or three of them) that has squat to do with the extraction process itself.
Ghost Phius wrote:There is no need to hand hold ninja salvagers. You need to keep the scanning aspect in the loop as is. I mean I know they destroyed the old exploration profession with scanning lite, why would people want more of that kind of auto terrible hand holding.....I think the population of EVE has been infiltrated by the make it easy crowd. So requiring special equipment and a completely new target for scanning, and expanding the profession to actually search for what you're after somehow counts as GÇ£auto terrible hand holdingGÇ¥? 
That doesn't make much senseGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards
The Bastards.
177
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
I know your right int he way you describe it. as that is how the game works. i still think its bollox and the wreck should belong the to guy that turn the npc ship into the wreck. and salvageing someone else's wreck should have risk for its reward.
its one of the same bollox machanics this game has like FW i have a zero sp alt sitting in fw just running sites. made 1.5bil isk worth of lp on her in hardly any time, that sould be removed from game.
anything that gives you isk lp items or anything in this game should have some element of risk the more you make the bigger the risk and so on. |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1204
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lord LazyGhost wrote:[Iam not trolling. I do like it and think you should be able to scan down wrecks. but also that stealing the wreck as that is what your doing by salvageing someone else's wreck it sould be treated the same as can fliping or taking loot from wrecks.... GǪexcept, of course, that you're not stealing the wrecks since they don't belong to anyone. They're just a natural resource hanging around waiting for extraction, like asteroids.
Actually, now that you mention it, mining asteroids should also give you a suspect flag. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17366
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:I know your right int he way you describe it. as that is how the game works. i still think its bollox and the wreck should belong the to guy that turn the npc ship into the wreck. Why should he be rewarded more than he already is without any additional work? What has he done to deserve that kind of reward boost?
Quote:salvageing someone else's wreck should have risk for its reward. Why should there be any additional risk to extracting a universally available resource?
You are never salvaging GÇ£someone else's wreckGÇ¥, so for whom should this supposed risk increase? Everyone?
Again, salvaging is its own profession. When you salvage, you compete against other salvagers GÇö there's where the risk and reward is. It has nothing to do with unrelated and irrelevant professions. Just because you can engage in that profession alongside some other thing you're doing at the same time doesn't mean you're entitled to any additional rewards for the salvaging profession. In fact, you already have the immense advantage of being there first so why on earth do you need more?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards
The Bastards.
177
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
I agree wtih what your saying as that is how the game works and nothing i can say will change the way the game works. But i dont think its right that it works that way that it sould be owned by the person that shot it. but hey thats the game and why we play it i guess
not going to sit on the forum and bash each other about it. so you like it the way it is i Dont Simples :P
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17366
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:But i dont think its right that it works that way that it sould be owned by the person that shot it. but hey thats the game and why we play it i guess GǪand I'm simply asking you why the rewards for unrelated professions should be increased.
If it's for no good reason, then that rather explains why it never has, never should, and never will happen. It also means that there are no real objections to completing the salvaging profession with a toolset it should have had at its disposal from the very beginning GÇö viz. actually finding the resources the entire profession is centred on. Until then, it's a bit like having mining barges in the game, but no proper way for them to discover where the asteroids are.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
115
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ghost Phius wrote:There is no need to hand hold ninja salvagers. You need to keep the scanning aspect in the loop as is. I mean I know they destroyed the old exploration profession with scanning lite, why would people want more of that kind of auto terrible hand holding.....I think the population of EVE has been infiltrated by the make it easy crowd. So requiring special equipment and a completely new target for scanning, and expanding the profession to actually search for what you're after somehow counts as Gǣauto terrible hand holdingGǥ? That doesn't make much senseGǪ
Scanning for 50-60 wrecks vs 1 ship. I think scanning for wrecks would be too easy, is what I mean.
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Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising
Gentlemen's Agreement
72
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Wrecks should just be scannable with combat scanners..... Problem solvered.
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Alt Two
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
76
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Posted - 2013.11.12 16:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lord LazyGhost wrote:See this is where we disagree that person has worked and risked their ship to create that wreck. The difference is that CCP agrees with me, and that the entire mechanic has been designed to work the way I describe it.
Oh, so we're playing the "If I agree with current game mechanics then that means CCP agrees with me" game. I can play that too.
CCP agrees with me that T3s shouldn't be able to refit subsystems in space.
CCP agrees with me that bubble immunity for interceptors is a bad idea.
CCP agrees with me that server nodes should crash when there's too many people in the system.
Just because something currently works a certain way doesn't mean it's the way it should always be. |
Xavier Higdon
Wolfbane Hauler Inc
85
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tippia, while I agree with you that there needs to be more salvage opportunities, I don't like the idea of someone being able to scan down a combat site, enter it, salvage the wrecks and leave without any risk involved. But I also don't like the fact that the only way wrecks become abandoned is by the owner actively doing so. I think the best route is to maintain the current timer length, but reduce by half the ownership timer. A wreck is "yours" for 1 hour, and is then abandoned, at which time it and the loot within it become free to take. Tougher missions can produce a number of wrecks, which take time to salvage, so allowing someone to scan down those wrecks in the interim between my making them and my salvaging them benefits the passive player, while my being able to salvage them depends on me actively producing them.
A proud member of Wolfbane Hauler Inc. We are currently recruiting pilots of all skill levels. We need both industrial combat specialists. For more information see our ad:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3764273&#post3764273 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17366
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
Alt Two wrote:Oh, so we're playing the "If I agree with current game mechanics then that means CCP agrees with me" game. No. We're playing the GÇ£if CCP has clearly and unequivocally expressed an intent with a design, then people saying it shouldn't work that way needs some pretty good reasons for saying soGÇ¥ game.
Quote:CCP agrees with me that T3s shouldn't be able to refit subsystems in space. Incorrect, since they have expressly said that you should be able to, but that there have been technical obstacles to overcome.
Quote:CCP agrees with me that bubble immunity for interceptors is a bad idea. Incorrect, since they have expressly said that it's an idea that's great enough to be turned into an actual feature.
Quote:CCP agrees with me that server nodes should crash when there's too many people in the system. Incorrect, since they have expressly said that they wish they could eventually build away those kinds of problems.
So learn what game you're playing before making ignorant and/or irrelevant claims.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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