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OkaskiKali
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 00:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ships that can shoot whilst cloaked.
Obviously certain class of modules would not be available to be fit to prevent it from being to overpowering.
Seems to work well in the movies, I personally love cloaky firing ships. Not sure if here is a place for them in eve but I would suggest that emergent gaming styles is what makes eve so great so before you flame the idea think about the sort of game play that can be created. |

HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
111
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 00:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
OkaskiKali wrote:before you flame the idea think about the sort of game play that can be created. Wormhole death wall. Sure sounds fun for everyone. |

OkaskiKali
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 01:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:OkaskiKali wrote:before you flame the idea think about the sort of game play that can be created. Wormhole death wall. Sure sounds fun for everyone.
Quote:Obviously certain class of modules would not be available to be fit to prevent it from being to overpowering.
Ships that cannot fit warp disruption? |

HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
111
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 01:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
OkaskiKali wrote:Ships that cannot fit warp disruption? So? |

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
948
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 01:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm going to go with no and for this reason: All of a sudden you are alphaed off the field and have no fracking clue by who or how to counter it (except in the Kill Mail).
I think you need to think out these ideas a bit more and provide reasons for + and - in your OP and not use "because it looks cool in the movies".
Cloaks work now because either they are on Cov-Ops haulers or they have a targeting lock delay when they do drop cloak so 1) you have time to react 2) they aren't overpowered.
I don't mean to be harsh but a little more fleshing out and you may get some juices flowing. Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |

OkaskiKali
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 01:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:I'm going to go with no and for this reason: All of a sudden you are alphaed off the field and have no fracking clue by who or how to counter it (except in the Kill Mail).
I think you need to think out these ideas a bit more and provide reasons for + and - in your OP and not use "because it looks cool in the movies".
Cloaks work now because either they are on Cov-Ops haulers or they have a targeting lock delay when they do drop cloak so 1) you have time to react 2) they aren't overpowered.
I don't mean to be harsh but a little more fleshing out and you may get some juices flowing.
I take your point, by debating the topic in a civilised manner that's how we arrive at the +ve and -ve's. Unless the idea is completely genuine which nobody has seen before then I believe we all know the meaning of a cloaky firing ship, the rest is open to debate what this idea could become. |

Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
366
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 01:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ships that can cause damage while avoiding damage completely (one cannot lock or shoot cloaked targets)? This is just broken from day one. |

OkaskiKali
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 01:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:Ships that can cause damage while avoiding damage completely (one cannot lock or shoot cloaked targets)? This is just broken from day one.
Broken in todays eve..
Think out the box and be creative. |

Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
366
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 01:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
OkaskiKali wrote:Bischopt wrote:Ships that can cause damage while avoiding damage completely (one cannot lock or shoot cloaked targets)? This is just broken from day one. Broken in todays eve.. Think out the box and be creative.
I can respect thinking outside the box.
You just need to actually think about your ideas first, don't just blurt out every idea that comes to your mind. No offense but this isn't really "being creative". You're just dropping a not very good idea on a forum and expecting it to somehow turn into a good idea.
I'm telling you, a ship that can deal damage while not even being at risk of taking damage is just about the worst idea there is. It's unbalanced and unfair. You know what solves this problem? Not having cloaky ships that can do damage while cloaked. |

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
981
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 01:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
what Maximus Aerelius said.
the only counter to a cloak is getting within 2500m of it .. but the ship is cloaked and you can't see it
being able to fire whilst cloaked is just a tad overpowered
and of course no-one that plays eve would ever think of abusing a situation like that
|

OkaskiKali
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 09:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
OK it seems that you are incapable of thinking about a new type of game play that is not within eve's current offering. Yes the idea in todays eve is unbalanced, but you've acted like a drone and not actually debated anything. "It's so unbalanced" - but what could counter-act a ship that can fire cloaked.
This is debating and brainstorming and is perfectly acceptable in the section named Features & Ideas Discussion. |

Radhe Amatin
Shadow State Fatal Ascension
24
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 09:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
bad for two reasons:
1. shooting while cloaked is totally overpowered for some obvious reason like no one can shot back. 2. In order to make this mechanic work (if by some idiotic reason CCP decides to put something like this in game ) there will have to be a new mechanic that will allow decloaking ships besides the 2500 m proximity and that will be bad because it will ruin the all ready existing cloaked ships in game that uses cloak as a defense and surprise attack.
|

OkaskiKali
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 10:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Radhe Amatin wrote:bad for two reasons:
1. shooting while cloaked is totally overpowered for some obvious reason like no one can shot back. 2. In order to make this mechanic work (if by some idiotic reason CCP decides to put something like this in game ) there will have to be a new mechanic that will allow decloaking ships besides the 2500 m proximity and that will be bad because it will ruin the all ready existing cloaked ships in game that uses cloak as a defense and surprise attack.
Quote:2. In order to make this mechanic work (if by some idiotic reason CCP decides to put something like this in game ) there will have to be a new mechanic that will allow decloaking ships besides the 2500 m proximity and that will be bad because it will ruin the all ready existing cloaked ships in game that uses cloak as a defense and surprise attack.
Why is it a bad idea to add a mechanic to decloak ships?
I am thinking something along the lines of some sort of pulse that has an area of effect of perhaps 25km. When the pulse emits ships caught in the are of effect are capped out forcing the cloak offline.
You see what I did there?
|

Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
357
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 10:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
PvP with invisible opponent is never a good idea for MMOs. No amount of thinking or debating will change that. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |

OkaskiKali
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 10:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:PvP with invisible opponent is never a good idea for MMOs. No amount of thinking or debating will change that.
Why come to a Features and Ideas Discussion post and not bring an idea? |

Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1913
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 10:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
OkaskiKali wrote:Radhe Amatin wrote:bad for two reasons:
1. shooting while cloaked is totally overpowered for some obvious reason like no one can shot back. 2. In order to make this mechanic work (if by some idiotic reason CCP decides to put something like this in game ) there will have to be a new mechanic that will allow decloaking ships besides the 2500 m proximity and that will be bad because it will ruin the all ready existing cloaked ships in game that uses cloak as a defense and surprise attack.
Quote:2. In order to make this mechanic work (if by some idiotic reason CCP decides to put something like this in game ) there will have to be a new mechanic that will allow decloaking ships besides the 2500 m proximity and that will be bad because it will ruin the all ready existing cloaked ships in game that uses cloak as a defense and surprise attack. Why is it a bad idea to add a mechanic to decloak ships? I am thinking something along the lines of some sort of pulse that has an area of effect of perhaps 25km. When the pulse emits ships caught in the are of effect are capped out forcing the cloak offline. You see what I did there?
Yes, you made it impossible to run through gatecamps. As well as impossible to defend yourself. Well done. 
|

OkaskiKali
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 10:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:OkaskiKali wrote:Radhe Amatin wrote:bad for two reasons:
1. shooting while cloaked is totally overpowered for some obvious reason like no one can shot back. 2. In order to make this mechanic work (if by some idiotic reason CCP decides to put something like this in game ) there will have to be a new mechanic that will allow decloaking ships besides the 2500 m proximity and that will be bad because it will ruin the all ready existing cloaked ships in game that uses cloak as a defense and surprise attack.
Quote:2. In order to make this mechanic work (if by some idiotic reason CCP decides to put something like this in game ) there will have to be a new mechanic that will allow decloaking ships besides the 2500 m proximity and that will be bad because it will ruin the all ready existing cloaked ships in game that uses cloak as a defense and surprise attack. Why is it a bad idea to add a mechanic to decloak ships? I am thinking something along the lines of some sort of pulse that has an area of effect of perhaps 25km. When the pulse emits ships caught in the are of effect are capped out forcing the cloak offline. You see what I did there? Yes, you made it impossible to run through gatecamps. As well as impossible to defend yourself. Well done. 
Ways round it. Just need to think about it. I mean it's not like people first of all run alt scouts or have intel channels or an outrageous idea could be to limit the pulse to only effect the covert-ops attacker class of ships. |

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
951
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 11:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
OkaskiKali wrote:Why is it a bad idea to add a mechanic to decloak ships?
I am thinking something along the lines of some sort of pulse that has an area of effect of perhaps 25km. When the pulse emits ships caught in the are of effect are capped out forcing the cloak offline.
You see what I did there?
Ah now I get it:
Posting in a not-so-stealthy "NERF CLOAKS MOOOOOAAARRRR" thread. Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |

Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 11:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
i dont like the idea of a cloaky ceptor to much but if the tradeoff is high enough why not.
example of tradeoff lousy dps, cant fit any cyno, gets speed t1 tank (it has to be pirate) and maybe bonus to scramb range or cap useage. |

OkaskiKali
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 11:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:shooting while cloaked gets a def neg 1 from me.
huh? why the edit, you actually make some good points if this idea, was to ever come to the game. |

Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 11:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
OkaskiKali wrote:Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:shooting while cloaked gets a def neg 1 from me. huh? why the edit, you actually make some good points if this idea, was to ever come to the game.
the edit was because i posted the wrong stuff in here, there is another forum thread with ship idea and i confused them 
EDIT: had some creative writing to fix |

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
359
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 11:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
OkaskiKali wrote:Why is it a bad idea to add a mechanic to decloak ships?
I am thinking something along the lines of some sort of pulse that has an area of effect of perhaps 25km. When the pulse emits ships caught in the are of effect are capped out forcing the cloak offline.
You see what I did there?
Please check The List for arguments for and agains this much proposed idea.
Personally as annoying as I find people escaping, scouting or firing up cynos for hotdrops in cloaked ships I have no wish to add something to the game removes those options or that makes life easier for the perpetual gate campers of EvE.
Edit: While I love the idea of being able to engage while cloaked I can't support it as it is far to overpowered. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |

Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
367
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 11:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
OkaskiKali wrote:OK it seems that you are incapable of thinking about a new type of game play that is not within eve's current offering. Yes the idea in todays eve is unbalanced, but you've acted like a drone and not actually debated anything. "It's so unbalanced" - but what could counter-act a ship that can fire cloaked.
This is debating and brainstorming and is perfectly acceptable in the section named Features & Ideas Discussion.
It's not a new type of gameplay actually. It's just two existing things that you're trying to combine while being the only person who cannot see what a bad idea it is.
Nobody wants to brainstorm with you because you should have stopped before you posted this and thought about it for yourself. Maybe you're just incapable of critical thinking without other people helping you.
And I did say why it's a bad idea. You just ignored it either on purpose or by mistake. Don't forget that your own original argument was along the lines of "I like cloaky ships firing in movies, so eve should have it too". |

Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
62
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 12:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
OkaskiKali wrote:OK it seems that you are incapable of thinking about a new type of game play that is not within eve's current offering. Yes the idea in todays eve is unbalanced, but you've acted like a drone and not actually debated anything. "It's so unbalanced" - but what could counter-act a ship that can fire cloaked.
This is debating and brainstorming and is perfectly acceptable in the section named Features & Ideas Discussion.
Then pls come back with a detailed proposition on the whole mechanic instaed of a random idea with no justification. Than we can discuss it (just look what devs do). Otherwise you are a troll that is wasting my time.
|

Doc J
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 13:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
I like the idea, if it means new modules and a new way of playing the game then I don't see what the fuss is about. There are plenty of spin offs for this idea, unfortunately most people are stuck within the current limits of the game.
Once again we are stuck in the mentality that just becuase something is unbalanced it is bad for the game when infact when things are unbalanced that creates some of the most attractive game plays eve has to offer. It also brings about a level of thinking that unique to this MMORPG and people shouldn't lose that fact.
I don't see it coming into eve any time soon or at all with the current limitations including that of player acceptance. Any idea that brings new types of game play to eve and not just a reiteration of the tradtional gameplays I am all for.
People will debate and brainstorm with you but most will offer you nothing more than "this is a bad idea" just just becuase of the way they are negatively wired, any idea is bad unless it is something they have thought of. |

Radhe Amatin
Shadow State Fatal Ascension
24
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 13:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
OkaskiKali wrote:Radhe Amatin wrote:bad for two reasons:
1. shooting while cloaked is totally overpowered for some obvious reason like no one can shot back. 2. In order to make this mechanic work (if by some idiotic reason CCP decides to put something like this in game ) there will have to be a new mechanic that will allow decloaking ships besides the 2500 m proximity and that will be bad because it will ruin the all ready existing cloaked ships in game that uses cloak as a defense and surprise attack.
Quote:2. In order to make this mechanic work (if by some idiotic reason CCP decides to put something like this in game ) there will have to be a new mechanic that will allow decloaking ships besides the 2500 m proximity and that will be bad because it will ruin the all ready existing cloaked ships in game that uses cloak as a defense and surprise attack. Why is it a bad idea to add a mechanic to decloak ships? I am thinking something along the lines of some sort of pulse that has an area of effect of perhaps 25km. When the pulse emits ships caught in the are of effect are capped out forcing the cloak offline. You see what I did there? first of all such a mechanic will render cloaked ships useless.....cov ops, bomber recons t3 when they use the covert cloak they trade off dps speed and tank for the ability to use them and the cloak is their main defense. Adding a mechanic that decloaks everything in 25 km will make passing throu gate camps impossible.Will render bombing runs on the gates on drag bubble and of any different spots useless if u can just click and decloak all bombers. Second of all putting new game mechanics that will brake another game mechanic just for the sake of fighting cloaked is insane at best and no matter how many arguments u can bring to the table its still something that will be over powered and game braking . I know its the ideas discussion section of the forum but posting game braking ideas just for the sake of posting anything its not best way to spend your time on the forum. |

AnUnskilled Pilot
State War Academy Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 13:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
I agree - bad idea. It hasn't worked or been done in any other game. Because it's overpowered. Any sort of mechanic that disables your ability to attack your target is overpowered and even by adding in things you can do. Its still overpowered, even if you manage to decloak them with the thing you have to do. Only then does the fight start |

Doc J
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 13:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Radhe Amatin wrote:OkaskiKali wrote:Radhe Amatin wrote:bad for two reasons:
1. shooting while cloaked is totally overpowered for some obvious reason like no one can shot back. 2. In order to make this mechanic work (if by some idiotic reason CCP decides to put something like this in game ) there will have to be a new mechanic that will allow decloaking ships besides the 2500 m proximity and that will be bad because it will ruin the all ready existing cloaked ships in game that uses cloak as a defense and surprise attack.
Quote:2. In order to make this mechanic work (if by some idiotic reason CCP decides to put something like this in game ) there will have to be a new mechanic that will allow decloaking ships besides the 2500 m proximity and that will be bad because it will ruin the all ready existing cloaked ships in game that uses cloak as a defense and surprise attack. Why is it a bad idea to add a mechanic to decloak ships? I am thinking something along the lines of some sort of pulse that has an area of effect of perhaps 25km. When the pulse emits ships caught in the are of effect are capped out forcing the cloak offline. You see what I did there? first of all such a mechanic will render cloaked ships useless.....cov ops, bomber recons t3 when they use the covert cloak they trade off dps speed and tank for the ability to use them and the cloak is their main defense. Adding a mechanic that decloaks everything in 25 km will make passing throu gate camps impossible.Will render bombing runs on the gates on drag bubble and of any different spots useless if u can just click and decloak all bombers. Second of all putting new game mechanics that will brake another game mechanic just for the sake of fighting cloaked is insane at best and no matter how many arguments u can bring to the table its still something that will be over powered and game braking . I know its the ideas discussion section of the forum but posting game braking ideas just for the sake of posting anything its not best way to spend your time on the forum.
Point proven with this response, people are so ingrained that "its bound to break the game" when in fact If we don't want to break what is working well it isn't rocket science that limitations can be used. It's not like CCP don't know how to limit....I mean rebalance. |

Doc J
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
4
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 13:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
AnUnskilled Pilot wrote:I agree - bad idea. It hasn't worked or been done in any other game. Because it's overpowered. Any sort of mechanic that disables your ability to attack your target is overpowered and even by adding in things you can do. Its still overpowered, even if you manage to decloak them with the thing you have to do. Only then does the fight start
And that is different to a falcon sat jamming you or an arazu sensor dampening you or a pilgrim being under your optimal with tracking disrupters.
Nothing in eve should be fair that is why I play, if it got anymore furry I'd hang up the plexes and go play another game. |

Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
179
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 16:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Doc J wrote:And that is different to a falcon sat jamming you or an arazu sensor dampening you or a pilgrim being under your optimal with tracking disrupters. It's different because all of those are easily countered by either having a buddy or two with you who can shoot the EWAR ship or by: fitting ECCM or using drones/FOFs against the Falcon, using drones/FOFs against the Arazu, using drones/missiles against the Pilgrim.
With a ship that can fire while cloaked none of these are a viable option. You just die because neither you nor the rest of your gang can fight back. |
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