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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17400
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Posted - 2013.11.14 06:25:00 -
[121] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:You just solved your own problem by the end of the sentence. Good job. So here's the thing. You know full well that EVE players will abuse the hell out of anything that can be abused even slightly GÇö it's just the nature of the game. So what is it with this recent policy of GÇ£wait and see if people abuse the hell out of itGÇ¥? Especially in the face of everyone+dog saying that, hey, we can abuse the hell out of this thingGǪ
Quote:We will of course be watching how all these structures are used and adjusting accordingly, but remember there are already "structures" you can drop in high security space that are even more difficult to kill and similarly worthy of destruction (anchored containers). Anchored cans offer services previously only available from POSes and stations now? Come on.
48h + 10 minutes is pretty silly on both ends of the spectrum: too long and too short, respectively. Halve one and increase the other by a factor of 10 or 20, and it becomes far more reasonable. The owner still has eons of time to save his stuff GÇö an advantage that is unique to this change-I-found-in-the-sofa-costing structure compared to every other deployable out there.
I can understand that you want to see these things in wide-spread use, but piling on so many advantages will lead to abuse, which means you have to annoy people later when their fancy swiss-army deployable inevitably has to be made sensible again. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Opaque Intent
Setenta Corp AL3XAND3R.
26
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Posted - 2013.11.14 06:50:00 -
[122] - Quote
Hello. Could I have a deployable spy satellite for providing off-map intel support for Dust players please?
Being able to deploy Dust installations from orbit would also be nice, but probably would take a lot more development effort. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
704
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Posted - 2013.11.14 07:06:00 -
[123] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:M Thomas wrote:So how many Depots can a single pilot deploy in space at the same time?
I'm thinking about a situation where a group of Carriers and Dreads are jumped while running a Sleeper site in wormhole space in their "home" system. They know they will die, deploy depots, wait 1 minute, start unfitting expensive mods. Now that loot is locked away in containers with 48 hour timers on them that can be scooped by the owners whenever they are out of danger. If you are jumping carriers in W and see a depot appear, shoot it before it activates. Depots have to be 5 km apart, so that limits the number a pilot can use i the short time available before dieing. Also if there are two carriers near each other they may not be able to both deploy depots.
Who said that they would have to start anchoring things during the fight ? Nope. Here is a better plan for wormholers :
1- At the beggining of your PVE activities on a site, have the carrier anchor a mobile depot with all the dreads around it. 2- Have a subcap ship put the depot in reinforced just because you can. 3- If something bad happens like PVP or PVE failure, just unfit everything, put it all into the carrier corp hangar bay. The carrier then puts the stuff into the mobile depot and everything is secure ! (Might be more complicated with capital modules but other very expensive and small modules can be saved) 4- ??? 5- Profit
3B - If nothing bad happens, just scoop back the mobile depot into your cargohold. 4- Move on to the next site, repeat. G££ <= Me |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
388
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Posted - 2013.11.14 07:07:00 -
[124] - Quote
Tippia wrote: I can understand that you want to see these things in wide-spread use, but piling on so many advantages will lead to abuse, which means you have to annoy people later when their fancy swiss-army deployable inevitably has to be made sensible again.
What horrible abuse is going to result from the depot? It does two things: stores gear/loot and allows for in space refitting. Both of which are intended and hardly qualify it for the "swiss-army" moniker.
The most valid concern I've seen raised so far is that the difficulty of removing these will turn them into ubiquitous space litter, since most of the 'abuses' listed consist of the depot a) being used as intended or b) being used to cause lag. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17400
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Posted - 2013.11.14 07:16:00 -
[125] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:What horrible abuse is going to result from the depot? It's next to impossible to remove. That's bad in and of itself. The kind of tactics that will develop that centres on this characteristic is largely unknown, I'll grant you, but they'll certainly share that one bad characteristic themselves, which is bad too.
It's not so much the litter GÇö that'll solve itself with its decay period GÇö but rather the fact that it allows for character littering as well to a vastly higher extent than before. The depots will get rid of themselves; getting rid of the people suddenly becomes a whole lot harder. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Angry Wife Agro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.11.14 07:29:00 -
[126] - Quote
CCP Fozzie, i know that its too early to ask, but these mobile structures is the first step towards revamped control towers? Maybe next expansion (summer expansion)? I am also worried about the fate of faction towers when new control tower system will be introduced. Can you shed some light upon this? I appreciate any info, even very dim :) |
Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
33
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Posted - 2013.11.14 08:19:00 -
[127] - Quote
Nice secure stash for lo sec and null pirates, raiders, ratters and explorers. Site runners will probably be the main users of ship fittings though. All of them can stash ammo and loot there when systems have no stations.
But if you want miners to move into lo sec -- a version of the mobile base that has more storage would be great 65K to 360K ideally at 25K-50K ISK. Heck most us would even trade away the ship fitting except maybe drone swapping. BIGGEST SECURE CAN ever. :)
Miner orgasm would be if you could link overflow from mobile tractor storage to a miner's version of the mobile depot. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8365
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Posted - 2013.11.14 08:33:00 -
[128] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: CCP Fozzie, can you answer my questions? Can a pilot flagged as criminal use a depot? Will doing so be considered evading CONCORD as all the assets used in the gank are not subject to CONCORD destruction?
Criminal flagged players are free to access depot services line anybody else, just as they can currently use orcas if they wish.
Unfitting modules doesn't count as evading CONCORD now on an orca, it won't count as evading CONCORD after Rubicon with the depot. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2240
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Posted - 2013.11.14 08:34:00 -
[129] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:What horrible abuse is going to result from the depot? It does two things: stores gear/loot and allows for in space refitting. Both of which are intended and hardly qualify it for the "swiss-army" moniker. I would be disappointed if there isn't already a GARPA team working on answering your question.
Some new things others have already mentioned, that might not have been intended: * Chance to save one or more high-value modules before destruction. * Being able to swap ECM modules for the target's weaknesses. A gatecamp Falcon's wet-dream. * A very large drone bay. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
704
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Posted - 2013.11.14 08:43:00 -
[130] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Milton Middleson wrote:What horrible abuse is going to result from the depot? It does two things: stores gear/loot and allows for in space refitting. Both of which are intended and hardly qualify it for the "swiss-army" moniker. I would be disappointed if there isn't already a GARPA team working on answering your question. Some new things others have already mentioned, that might not have been intended: * Chance to save one or more high-value modules before destruction. * Being able to swap ECM modules for the target's weaknesses. A gatecamp Falcon's wet-dream. * A very large drone bay.
That's the point. The mobile depot is a very nice structure, but it also enables too many game-breaking possibilities. Saving your stuff comes in first position, ECM in second.
The reason why POS bashing in WHs was frustrating was because SMAs did not dropped loot anymore. With the ability for pilots to unfit before dying as long as they have an anchored structure (which can be done as a security measure before any attack) it negates two important points of PvP in eve : 1- Killmails nerfed because isks destroyed are reduced 2- pvp loot is reduced. bonus 3- Huge buff to ECM when your gank is static.
And this is really, really bad. G££ <= Me |
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Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
390
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Posted - 2013.11.14 08:50:00 -
[131] - Quote
Quote:Some new things others have already mentioned, that might not have been intended: * Chance to save one or more high-value modules before destruction. * Being able to swap ECM modules for the target's weaknesses. A gatecamp Falcon's wet-dream. * A very large drone bay.
-Well, if there is something shiny in there, you've got a reason to put up the effort involved in killing it, and you can be moderately confident that the owner will come for it. Content generated. Plus, if you're getting your ass beat that hard, they can probably nuke the depot before it anchors. -Really annoying, but mostly gratuitous, and not really abuse in any event. It will hardly be the only example of rapid refitting to situational counters. -Again, limitations on use in combat (e.g. even brawling ships move around quite a lot). Plus, you have to get the drones into the depot, which means you're still constrained by the ship's cargo hold. Out of combat, doesn't seem unintended, and helps mitigate the low endurance of drone ships.
edit: Ono, the targedy. My killmails might be worth a bit less. I take it all back. CCP, you need to ditch this right away. It will ruin Eve. |
Rabbit P
Die Valkyrja Pangu Coalition
6
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Posted - 2013.11.14 09:16:00 -
[132] - Quote
About the reinforcement of depot
it can be scooped into cargo while reinforced , then can it be deployed again immediately? if it can be deployed again immediately, how many shield does it have? does it still under reinforced? can I start to repair it? if it can't, how long do we need to wait to deploy it again? |
Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.11.14 09:20:00 -
[133] - Quote
Dear CCP,
About mobile depot, You need to increase the activation time.
Because now it's possible to abuse a lot.
First case : Dread fleet, you don't need to have carrier to refit, all dread need to have one or two mobile depot for refitting (hardener or tracking or capa etc).
Second case : dominix or other drone fleet, you can add some extra drone on your cargo and add them on the drone bay during the fight.
etc ...
We need to increase massively the activation time. The minimum must be 10 minutes.
Also that will be a great idea to add some structure to steal the offline pos.
Mobile breaking offline control tower (or something like that) |
Green Gambit
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
43
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Posted - 2013.11.14 09:43:00 -
[134] - Quote
Xaarous wrote:Overall I love these new structures. My one suggestion for the "New Placeables" - have them auto-create a personal bookmark when you place them (or at least when they finish coming online).
I want this, but bookmarks is the wrong way to do it - I don't want to have to be constantly going and cleaning out bookmarks for old structures - especially bubbles if they move into the system.
So what I'd like to see is a new group for owned and anchored items, same as moons/belts/planets/stations, it's appears only when there's something there.
It would also be nice if corp/alliance items also allowed auto-warp-to as the system is expanded to corp/alliance items. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
985
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:15:00 -
[135] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Well, if there is something shiny in there, you've got a reason to put up the effort involved in killing it
The effort needed to kill just one is hilariously unreasonable. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1805
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:22:00 -
[136] - Quote
To everyone saying the depots are invulnerable, I challenge you to deploy a bunch in front of VFK undock and keep them alive for as long as you can.
Worst case, you prove yourself right. Best case, you provide us with content. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1274
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:31:00 -
[137] - Quote
So will Mobile Tractor Unit tractor a loot yelow wrecks in high sec, or only owners ones(white) and abondoned(blue) ?
1. Mobile Tractor Unit 2. Gank stufff 3. ... 4. Profit! |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
985
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:33:00 -
[138] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:To everyone saying the depots are invulnerable, I challenge you to deploy a bunch in front of VFK undock and keep them alive for as long as you can.
Worst case, you prove yourself right. Best case, you provide us with content.
Deal. Oh, and if I keep it alive longer than a week, you owe me 500M. |
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
14
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:47:00 -
[139] - Quote
Hey all! CCP Lebowski here to trawl the thread and answer questions that fell by the wayside.
Fire'Marshal Bill wrote:The tractor Beam unit, can it be opened by anyone? Pilot only? Corp? Fleet? Shooting grants suspect as mentioned, but is it steal-capable? The Mobile Tractor Unit can only be opened by the owner, but can be killed by anyone. When killed it will drop a proportion of its loot.
Daedalus II wrote:What happens to a cyno that is already up when the cyno inhibitor activates? A cyno that is already up will finish its current cycle then deactivate.
Max Kolonko wrote:Does the fitting service works if the ship has less than 25% shield or during RF? The fitting service does NOT work during the Depots activation or during reinforcement, meaning the best way to stop it being effective is shooting it before it comes online or shooting it into reinforcement once it is. In addition to this, depots cannot be rescooped while they are activating, giving aggressors a chance to kill them before the owner can do anything to save them. CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0 |
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Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
985
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Posted - 2013.11.14 10:58:00 -
[140] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote: In addition to this, depots cannot be rescooped while they are activating, giving aggressors a chance to kill them before the owner can do anything to save them.
...The activation time is just one minute. |
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Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
985
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:04:00 -
[141] - Quote
I mean, every once in a greeeeeat while, you'll catch somebody onlining a POS. You know, a large structure, immobile, and also (unlike the yurts) at a default warp-in accessible from the drop down menu. POSes also have onlining timers of somewhere between 7 1/2 and 60 minutes or so. It's extremely rare despite all of these, and when it does happen it's usually because the POS was being put up in a populated area (read: warzone).
So...yeah. 1-minute onlining timers. Gonna be loads of yurts blown up during that time period. Oh yeah. Loads. |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3656
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:08:00 -
[142] - Quote
Awesome! Great direction to take the game towards.
Personal depot timers and mechanics might need a bit of rethinking, I can't see how they could ever be destroyed unless the owner happens not to login for a few days, but all in all these are great additions!
Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
286
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:25:00 -
[143] - Quote
Does the cyno inhibitor thingy affect POS cyno beacons? I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
96
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:30:00 -
[144] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Lolmer wrote:Shouldn't all of these deployables require " Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM). The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy.
Once the Jita wannabe pies are bored of shooting them and Jita 4.4 has 5'000 ganet dropped depots and tractors around it how long will it take to load the grid ?
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
14
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Posted - 2013.11.14 11:32:00 -
[145] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I mean, every once in a greeeeeat while, you'll catch somebody onlining a POS. You know, a large structure, immobile, and also (unlike the yurts) at a default warp-in accessible from the drop down menu. POSes also have onlining timers of somewhere between 7 1/2 and 60 minutes or so. It's extremely rare despite all of these, and when it does happen it's usually because the POS was being put up in a populated area (read: warzone).
So...yeah. 1-minute onlining timers. Gonna be loads of yurts blown up during that time period. Oh yeah. Loads. Apologies, I think we have crossed wires here.
My point wasn't that you will happen across pilots onlining Mobile Depots, but that when on grid with a pilot who attempts to deploy mobile depot it will be difficult for them to deploy it without you killing it before its activation is done, or failing that, reinforcing it very quickly, meaning its fitting service is disabled and it would need to be scooped and launched again before being useful.
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0 |
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
370
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Posted - 2013.11.14 12:18:00 -
[146] - Quote
Just curious about why you chose 2 minutes on the spool up time for cyno jammers?
Why not 15s or 30s or 60s or 90s or even 10 minutes?
The limited range of them kind of suggests them being useful to stop 'blap' dreads etc, but then with 2 minutes to cycle up its highly unlikely to prevent 'hotdroppers' from escalating and getting on grid before the spool up unless the 'defenders' have them spooled up before they get on the field (ie will we need a gate to gate convoy of them in order to move a BS fleet around low?)
I'm just wondering if these things will prevent more fights than making fights more interesting?
Oh, and this is one structure I think should be able to be put close to gates (but not stations)... |
Zircon Dasher
294
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Posted - 2013.11.14 12:59:00 -
[147] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:The fitting service does NOT work during the Depots activation or during reinforcement, meaning the best way to stop it being effective is shooting it before it comes online or shooting it into reinforcement once it is. In addition to this, depots cannot be rescooped while they are activating, giving aggressors a chance to kill them before the owner can do anything to save them.
Does this mean I should bug report fitting services working during reinforcement?
Because, as of last night, it was doable on SISI.
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Vyger
S0utherN Comfort Against ALL Authorities
12
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Posted - 2013.11.14 13:11:00 -
[148] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Lolmer wrote:Shouldn't all of these deployables require " Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM). The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy. Once the Jita wannabe pies are bored of shooting them and Jita 4.4 has 5'000 ganet dropped depots and tractors around it how long will it take to load the grid ?
The grid isn't large enough for these things to be deployed in that sort of density. Not when they have to be placed 10km apart.
Besides, the Jita 4-4 undock already has bigger issues. |
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
14
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Posted - 2013.11.14 13:13:00 -
[149] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Does this mean I should bug report fitting services working during reinforcement?
Because, as of last night, it was doable on SISI. Singularity was updated this morning and on the newest build this is working as I outlined. However if you find anything else you think is incorrect or contradicts anything we've said, please do report it and I'll look into it.
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0 |
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Zircon Dasher
294
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Posted - 2013.11.14 13:15:00 -
[150] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:Does this mean I should bug report fitting services working during reinforcement?
Because, as of last night, it was doable on SISI. Singularity was updated this morning and on the newest build this is working as I outlined. However if you find anything else you think is incorrect or contradicts anything we've said, please do report it and I'll look into it.
Good to know. Cheers! Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
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