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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
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CCP Falcon
4502
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello Capsuleers!
CCP Fozzie is here to share more Rubicon goodness with you, and talk to you about the mobile structures that are coming with EVE Online: Rubicon on November 19th.
Check out his latest Dev Blog here, for more details regarding stuff you'll be able to put in space that does fantastic stuff for you, when Rubicon arrives next Tuesday!
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Team -á || -á EVE Illuminati -á || -á Live Events Organizer
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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Fire'Marshal Bill
Parks 'n Wrecks Wildlife Management
1
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Interesting! |
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CCP Loktofeit
C C P C C P Alliance
125
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
YES "...do Eve News 24; it's a very accurate and informative website." - Mara Tessidar |
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Tubrug1
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
363
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Loktofeit wrote:YES
I like your sig. Writer of The Eve Onion http://eveion.blogspot.co.uk/
I have a Twitter |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
10018
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
L+¬ Structures! Sweet!
Tractor will be sweet indeed, and I can see non-aggro use for the mobile cyno disruptor! Very interesting!
/c
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Daenna Chrysi
Omega Foundry Unit Shadows Of Betrayal
91
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
what you are using in the manufacturing of the mobile cyno inhibitor? because those energy streams between the forks of it look like the personal time stream of the doctor from the Name of the Doctor episode
http://brianofmorbius.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/name_doctor-12.jpg |
Sarmatiko
1497
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
With new tractor structure, Marauder tractor capabilities are now even more useless. Thanks CCP, you always listen to our feedback. No wait, in this case feedback was completely ignored.
Quote:The speed of tractoring has been tuned to ensure that a friend in a Noctis or Orca is still both more effective than the structure, in addition to providing more stimulating conversation. Can someone describe exact practical scenario in which Orca pilot will fit Tractor Beam instead of 3 mindlinks? There is none? Yet it have 84km tractor beam range.. -¥ |
Daedalus II
The Oasis Group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
181
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Two questions:
What will the cyno inhibitor cost (roughly)?
What happens to a cyno that is already up when the cyno inhibitor activates? |
Locutus ofBorg
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
7
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Posted - 2013.11.13 17:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Do we know if NPCs will agro onto tractor structures? |
Lair Osen
70
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
So how do we get these new structures? I didn't see any mention of BPC dropping or seeding or any other distribution technique mentioned in the Devblog?
Also, for above, Cyno inhibitors don't affect already active cynos and deployables don't get NPC aggro. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17389
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:Can someone describe exact practical scenario in which Orca pilot will fit Tractor Beam instead of 3 mindlinks? Laser efficiency link, shield harmonizing link GÇö leaves one slot for a tractor for sucking up cans from spread-out Hulks.
Locutus ofBorg wrote:Do we know if NPCs will agro onto tractor structures? Blog says no.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Naes Mlahrend
KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
176
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
So if I complete a site and drop a tractor unit, will it continue to function while I warp to station and grab a noctis? |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8304
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Daedalus II wrote:Two questions:
What will the cyno inhibitor cost (roughly)?
What happens to a cyno that is already up when the cyno inhibitor activates? Between 20 and 30m isk.
That cyno will continue normally until it attempts to start its next cycle, and then be forced to shut off.
Locutus ofBorg wrote:Do we know if NPCs will agro onto tractor structures? NPCs will not attack these structures.
Lair Osen wrote:So how do we get these new structures? I didn't see any mention of BPC dropping or seeding or any other distribution technique mentioned in the Devblog? BPOs for the standard variations of these modules are seeded in NPC stations. The notable one is the Cyno Inhibitor BPO, which is only available for purchase from NPCs in 0.0 stations. The rest are all available widely across empire space.
Naes Mlahrend wrote:So if I complete a site and drop a tractor unit, will it continue to function while I warp to station and grab a noctis? Yes Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Deornoth Drake
Black Hole Squadron
40
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Finally !!! Thx Fozzie |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
703
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
That's a great addition to the game, almost as important as modular POSes (almost :p), so good work
But I got a few questions : 1- I understand the mechanic and meaning behind the mobile depot, but what was exactly the goal behind the two days timer ? No fuel needed, no cargo 'lock' during reinforcement, no control over exit reinforcment time... Don't you think that the defender is (too) heavily favorised ?So heavily that nobody would ever bother shooting the structures ? The absence of structure lock in reinforcement also means that if a player, in the middle of a fight, drops a mobile depot, you just have no ways to prevent him from using it. Apart from killing him of course
2- Along with the "why would we bother shooting it" is also the question of how long will the depot stay between 0 and 25% shields ?
3- Is there a mail to warn the defender about his depot being attacked ?
4- Are NPCs shooting the depot and any other new deployable structure in general ? EDIT : Answered : NO. G££ <= Me |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17389
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Oh!
Scanning down these structures. Can it be done? How hard is it? What kind of signature do they count as and what probes would you need? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
683
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Sounds fun. *removed inappropriate signature* - CCP Eterne |
Charlie Firpol
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
32
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
So the long term plan is not to "fix POSes" but build on the new structure code, make a whole new POS system and then throw out all that old POS code? Sounds reasonable |
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CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
1403
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
I hope you like our latest work. Looking forward to seeing this hit TQ
Altrue wrote:That's a great addition to the game, almost as important as modular POSes (almost :p), so good work But I got a few questions : 1- I understand the mechanic and meaning behind the mobile depot, but what was exactly the goal behind the two days timer ? No fuel needed, no cargo 'lock' during reinforcement, no control over exit reinforcment time... Don't you think that the defender is (too) heavily favorised ?So heavily that nobody would ever bother shooting the structures ? The absence of structure lock in reinforcement also means that if a player, in the middle of a fight, drops a mobile depot, you just have no ways to prevent him from using it. Apart from killing him of course 2- Along with the "why would we bother shooting it" is also the question of how long will the depot stay between 0 and 25% shields ? 3- Is there a mail to warn the defender about his depot being attacked ? 4- Are NPCs shooting the depot and any other new deployable structure in general ? EDIT : Answered : NO. 1) Two days is enough that if you are using it regularly, you'll be reasonably able to defend your stuff (by packing up and moving), but not long enough that we'll end up with wastelands of abandoned depots cluttering up space. The reinforcement is only available once the depot has activated. If you see someone drop one in a fight, you have until it activates to get it below 25%, at which point you can continue shooting it through to armor and then structure. 2) Passive recharge for that range is around 10 minutes or so. 3) No. If you are using it regularly, then you'll surely notice it. "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2260
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:Can someone describe exact practical scenario in which Orca pilot will fit Tractor Beam instead of 3 mindlinks? Laser efficiency link, shield harmonizing link GÇö leaves one slot for a tractor for sucking up cans from spread-out Hulks. Locutus ofBorg wrote:Do we know if NPCs will agro onto tractor structures? Blog says no. Many orca pilots, including my alt, fit the shield harmonizing, and two laser links: range and speed. Orca pilots are going to use tractor units. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Iam Widdershins
project nemesis
835
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 18:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:The Cyno Inhibitor also cannot be deployed in any location where its area of effect would overlap with another identical module. Overlap... by how much?
If it cannot overlap at all, this means the best way to prepare to defend a structure you are deploying capitals for is to make sure you have a mobile cyno jammer whose field is TANGENT to the structure when the enemy shows up in force. This way it would be impossible to prevent capitals from cynoing in from more than at most a couple tens of kilometers from the center point.
Is this the intentional design, or are they allowed to overlap by 50km, or what's the thinking here? Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2260
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
Naes Mlahrend wrote:So if I complete a site and drop a tractor unit, will it continue to function while I warp to station and grab a noctis?
You could also drop a mobile depot and refit salvagers. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
90
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
What I'd like to see for a future re-kit of Mobile Warp Disruptors, if possible, would be to work with this new "drag and drop" system, and then have a menu option allowing corp/alliance mates to scoop it later if they so choose (so that you can deploy it quickly, but also don't have to be there to pick it up again). I understand the allowance of others to scoop it is less relevant for t1 smalls, but if I decide to anchor a t2 large on a gate to screen a mining op and I have to log, I don't want to lose my t2 large just because no one else can pick it up again. |
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
90
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:Quote:The Cyno Inhibitor also cannot be deployed in any location where its area of effect would overlap with another identical module. Overlap... by how much? If it cannot overlap at all, this means the best way to prepare to defend a structure you are deploying capitals for is to make sure you have a mobile cyno jammer whose field is TANGENT to the structure when the enemy shows up in force. This way it would be impossible to prevent capitals from cynoing in from more than at most a couple tens of kilometers from the center point. Is this the intentional design, or are they allowed to overlap by 50km, or what's the thinking here?
Probably intentional, creates a curved diamond of "safe" space to jump into if you carpet the field with them. However, as noted, the total EHP value is only on par with a buffer BS, so your opponents don't have to field much to alpha the things and open up the field again. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
703
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 18:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:I hope you like our latest work. Looking forward to seeing this hit TQ Altrue wrote: 2- Along with the "why would we bother shooting it" is also the question of how long will the depot stay between 0 and 25% shields ?
2) Passive recharge for that range is around 10 minutes or so.
Not sure if this is the right place to discuss balance discussions but don't you think that a ten minuts window after 48 hours is a tad short ? :D G££ <= Me |
Sable Blitzmann
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
86
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Posted - 2013.11.13 18:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Will deployed siphon's be available in the characters API? I would think not as it sounds like it's not associated with a char at all.
Also, when are we getting a 'launch for self' pos option? |
Iam Widdershins
project nemesis
835
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 19:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
Syri Taneka wrote:Probably intentional, creates a curved diamond of "safe" space to jump into if you carpet the field with them. However, as noted, the total EHP value is only on par with a buffer BS, so your opponents don't have to field much to alpha the things and open up the field again. Actually creating a sphere-subtraction 'diamond' would be a lot worse than just placing a single (or dipolar) tangent jammer(s). One tangent jammer, if it is not destroyed, presents in the absolute worst case a fairly wide guaranteed ring of cynoable space around it, expanding along the tangent plane. If they were to bring a large enough contingent to safely destroy it, they could be immediately faced with cynos & bubbles the moment the jammer goes down...
Thus, assuming they aren't allowed to intersect at all, the resulting correlary is that you basically need total subcapital domination before the event to have a chance of keeping a portable jammer in a useful location for the duration of an op. If so much as a single bubbler and a cyno can show up (or already be there, cloaked) when you take down the tangent jammer, you'll lose your entire gang assuming you don't have competitive capital assets. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Valterra Craven
131
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Tippia wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:Can someone describe exact practical scenario in which Orca pilot will fit Tractor Beam instead of 3 mindlinks? Laser efficiency link, shield harmonizing link GÇö leaves one slot for a tractor for sucking up cans from spread-out Hulks. Locutus ofBorg wrote:Do we know if NPCs will agro onto tractor structures? Blog says no. Many orca pilots, including my alt, fit the shield harmonizing, and two laser links: range and speed. Orca pilots are going to use tractor units.
I'm not sure, I've been trying to keep abreast of this and I think one of the true downsides to this is that it will only tractor wrecks you own, no corp, no blue, no fleet. So I don't really see people outside of users that play only one account using one.
At least thats what I read at one point. I don't know if this is still true or not. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2911
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 19:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:Can someone describe exact practical scenario in which Orca pilot will fit Tractor Beam instead of 3 mindlinks? Laser efficiency link, shield harmonizing link GÇö leaves one slot for a tractor for sucking up cans from spread-out Hulks.
You forgot the range links that are vital to letting everyone anchor off the orca and drop directly into its Fleet Hanger while still being able to reach 90% of the belt.
And yeah, the tractor thing totally does kill the bonus of marauders, now I'll just bring one of these, drop it at the start of a mission, and let it run until I finish a room.
I'll run with 3 salvagers instead of 3 tractors, salvage everything quickly, loot everything at once, and move on.
And with the range of this thing I no longer have to care about sniping anything with my glorious tachyons at ranges over 48km....especially after fitting a bastion on my pally >:D The Drake is a Lie |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
114
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:33:00 -
[30] - Quote
Shouldn't all of these deployables require "Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM). |
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CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
1405
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Syri Taneka wrote:What I'd like to see for a future re-kit of Mobile Warp Disruptors, if possible, would be to work with this new "drag and drop" system, and then have a menu option allowing corp/alliance mates to scoop it later if they so choose (so that you can deploy it quickly, but also don't have to be there to pick it up again). I understand the allowance of others to scoop it is less relevant for t1 smalls, but if I decide to anchor a t2 large on a gate to screen a mining op and I have to log, I don't want to lose my t2 large just because no one else can pick it up again. Converting the existing MWDs over to this new system is definitely one of the things we'd like to do in the new year. It makes a good first technical case for progressing the deployable system design from a personal to group level, for exactly the reasons that you mentioned. "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8313
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lolmer wrote:Shouldn't all of these deployables require " Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM).
The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
983
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mobile depots have too much defensive practicality for being so cheap.
Not allowing cynojammers to overlap is dumb and seriously curtails their usefulness. |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Aliastra Gallente Federation
103
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:50:00 -
[34] - Quote
AFAIK (last time I checked on sisi), you can't name these structures. Would it be possible (i.e., easy to change) to allow at least the mobile structure to be named? I'd like to call it my pleasure hub and put tourists and dancers and enjoyment commodities (cough crash cough) in it and pretend I am having a sweet SPACE PARTY in my mobile structure....etc.... Naming just makes them more personal. |
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CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
1405
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think the sisi version has been updated recently to support renaming your own structures, so SPACE PARTY IS A GO "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
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Valterra Craven
131
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Can we get a dev to confirm that they only tractor things you "own" (and I guess really this means you created)
AKA: no corp, no blue, no fleet |
M1k3y Koontz
thorn project Surely You're Joking
405
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Interesting idea with limiting the mobile cyno jammers so they can't overlap, means swaths of these will have holes in them...
No stats on the Ghost Site structures compared to standard ones? :3 How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
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CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
1407
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
It will tractor anything that you have loot rights to "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17391
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:You forgot the range links that are vital to letting everyone anchor off the orca and drop directly into its Fleet Hanger while still being able to reach 90% of the belt. Those are some pretty small belts you have thereGǪ
As for using the tractor unit for group mining, it's a bit too slow to be useful. At any greater distance, it has problems keeping up with even two or three ships, much less a full fleet of them. It only takes one can at a time and moves them at 1km/s. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
905
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
I tested probing the depots on sisi.
The meta 0 and low meta versions are both very easy to probe. I was able to probe both of them in:
covops 4 helios, t1 probe launcher, faction probes, t1 rig x2, no implants, no midslot modules. <300k sp in scanning (astro 4, supports at 3)
The high meta version was impossible to probe with: covops 4 helios, t2 probe launcher, faction probes, t1 rig x2, 6% strength implant, 3x t2 strength modules, maxed probing skills.
With covops 5 I would have gotten it, maybe with a sisters launcher, and definitely with partial LG virtue set.
I think the low meta version should be a little harder to probe. |
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1046
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
So if I want to kill a <1 million ISK deployable structure i need to shoot it, wait 48 hours, and hope that I come back within 10 minutes of it starting to regen its shields?
That's absurd. Space will be littered with them because they will just not be worth the coordination and effort to take down. They should require some tending to be capable of recharging their shields, and have a 24h reinforcement timer at the maximum. |
Iam Widdershins
project nemesis
835
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:30:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:Converting the existing MWDs over to this new system I know you mean Mobile Warp Disruptor because of context, but this is why we players call them "bubbles" Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
905
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:So if I want to kill a <1 million ISK deployable structure i need to shoot it, wait 48 hours, and hope that I come back within 10 minutes of it starting to regen its shields?
That's absurd. Space will be littered with them because they will just not be worth the coordination and effort to take down. They should require some tending to be capable of recharging their shields, and have a 24h reinforcement timer at the maximum.
You know to the second when it will come out of reinforcement. |
adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
4
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
What is the duration of the mobile hangar in terms of lifetime? ----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17392
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
adriaans wrote:What is the duration of the mobile hangar in terms of lifetime? 30 days it says on the info card. Presumably, this means they have the same behaviour as deployable cans? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Aliastra Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:So if I want to kill a <1 million ISK deployable structure i need to shoot it, wait 48 hours, and hope that I come back within 10 minutes of it starting to regen its shields?
That's absurd. Space will be littered with them because they will just not be worth the coordination and effort to take down. They should require some tending to be capable of recharging their shields, and have a 24h reinforcement timer at the maximum.
Yeah, this is a worry. I think we will end up with far too many depots lying around. AFAIK, you can deploy as many depots as you want on a single character. And AFAIK, they don't decay after any amount of time if not used. This means in a few months alone we are likely going to see a huge amount of depots that 1. no one has an incentive to blow up, and 2. have simply been abandoned.
This could be fixed by :
1. Putting a limit on the amount of active depots per character.
2. Putting a timer on depots so that they decay after not being used after a certain amount of time.
3. Making it easier to destroy them (e.g., a much slower shield recharge, or no shield recharge at all).
I would prefer a combination of 1 and 3 or just 3 by itself by remove shield recharge completely. |
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CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
1408
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
Depots will decay 30 days after the owner last interacts with it "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
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Angry Mustache
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
74
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:51:00 -
[48] - Quote
There seems to be a pretty big dichotomy to the way defense of a depot is handled compared to the defense of a mining POS.
From the patch notes, it seems like a depot owner will be able to scoop a reinforced Depot, then immediately re-plonk it to refresh the timer and put all his stuff back in. In essence, as long as you log in once every two days, your mobile depot and the stuff within is Perfectly Safe.
So for Mobile Depots, being "active" enough to defend your depot perfectly means once every two days.
Compare this to the attention needed to defend a Mining POS from siphons. Where the amount of attention needed by the owner to perfectly defend the POS is every time a siphoning alt logs in. This can be once every day, this can be whenever the siphoner feels like it, it is utterly unpredictable, and thanks to "waste" from a siphon, even if the owner checks on the POS before the siphoner returns, he still loses money.
so, the activity time to defend something that -costs 1 mil -no upkeep -anchors in 45 seconds -requires no skills -can be anchored anywhere -needs to be probed down
is 2 days
The activity time needed to defend something that -costs upwards of a billion -requires ~350 mil in fuel a month -anchored at set locations, requires hours to fully anchor -requires anchoring skills -requires owner to assemble a fleet to defend
is however much a siphoner wants to log in and drop a siphon. http://themittani.com -á- your one stop site for all News Eve Related |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
114
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Posted - 2013.11.13 20:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Lolmer wrote:Shouldn't all of these deployables require " Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM). The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy.
That's why I said "Anchoring I", the others appear to require "Anchoring III" as they're more advanced. Anchoring is sub million ISK and trains quickly, plus would bar Trial Accounts from anchoring these and make sense in the lore, since they are being anchored in space. How can I anchor that which I do not know how to anchor? Adding "Anchoring I" is a small price to pay for all gain, unless you're a Trial Account. :) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8317
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
Angry Mustache wrote:There seems to be a pretty big dichotomy to the way defense of a depot is handled compared to the defense of a mining POS.
From the patch notes, it seems like a depot owner will be able to scoop a reinforced Depot, then immediately re-plonk it to refresh the timer and put all his stuff back in. In essence, as long as you log in once every two days, your mobile depot and the stuff within is Perfectly Safe.
So for Mobile Depots, being "active" enough to defend your depot perfectly means once every two days.
Compare this to the attention needed to defend a Mining POS from siphons. Where the amount of attention needed by the owner to perfectly defend the POS is every time a siphoning alt logs in. This can be once every day, this can be whenever the siphoner feels like it, it is utterly unpredictable, and thanks to "waste" from a siphon, even if the owner checks on the POS before the siphoner returns, he still loses money.
so, the activity time to defend something that -costs 1 mil -no upkeep -anchors in 45 seconds -requires no skills -can be anchored anywhere -needs to be probed down
is 2 days
The activity time needed to defend something that -costs upwards of a billion -requires ~350 mil in fuel a month -anchored at set locations, requires hours to fully anchor -requires anchoring skills -requires owner to assemble a fleet to defend
is however much a siphoner wants to log in and drop a siphon.
If the Mobile Depot provided anywhere near the strategic value of a POS or provided any income whatsoever that would be an excellent point Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
|
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
253
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 20:54:00 -
[51] - Quote
Angry Mustache wrote:There seems to be a pretty big dichotomy to the way defense of a depot is handled compared to the defense of a mining POS.
From the patch notes, it seems like a depot owner will be able to scoop a reinforced Depot, then immediately re-plonk it to refresh the timer and put all his stuff back in. In essence, as long as you log in once every two days, your mobile depot and the stuff within is Perfectly Safe.
So for Mobile Depots, being "active" enough to defend your depot perfectly means once every two days.
Compare this to the attention needed to defend a Mining POS from siphons. Where the amount of attention needed by the owner to perfectly defend the POS is every time a siphoning alt logs in. This can be once every day, this can be whenever the siphoner feels like it, it is utterly unpredictable, and thanks to "waste" from a siphon, even if the owner checks on the POS before the siphoner returns, he still loses money.
so, the activity time to defend something that -costs 1 mil -no upkeep -anchors in 45 seconds -requires no skills -can be anchored anywhere -needs to be probed down
is 2 days
The activity time needed to defend something that -costs upwards of a billion -requires ~350 mil in fuel a month -anchored at set locations, requires hours to fully anchor -requires anchoring skills -requires owner to assemble a fleet to defend
is however much a siphoner wants to log in and drop a siphon.
And let's say the gankers bubble your mobile depot... The only person that can scoop it is you, and they know its yours. Lapp they have to do is watchlist and wait for you to login.
I can see smart people getting kills over this
Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
703
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
What happens if the mobile depot is getting shot while it's anchoring. Does it go into reinforced ? G££ <= Me |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1048
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
Quote:You know to the second when it will come out of reinforcement.
And the owner has two days to put in a trivial amount of effort to save it, and it costs less than 1 million ISK. Consider that
-You need to spend time finding it and shooting it -You need to keep track of when it comes out of reinforced, and be there exactly when that happens -If the owner logs in pretty much at all you will fail -Even if you do kill it, you will probably have done little good other than costing the other person an absolutely trivial amount of time and money.
Taking one down, as the mechanics exist today, is a giant pain in the ass for no real gain. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8320
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
Altrue wrote:What happens if the mobile depot is getting shot while it's anchoring. Does it go into reinforced ?
No, if shot below 25% shield during the activation period it does not enter reinforced mode and can be killed immediately. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
269
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:16:00 -
[55] - Quote
MCI is fairly pointless because of miserable EHP, excessive onlineing time, and deployment restrictions. MTU is just bad idea as I elaborated here. MD and MSU are all in all good. Overall grade for CCP devs on this mobile structure projects is C-. I hope you do better next time. Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows... |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
386
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote: Taking one down, as the mechanics exist today, is a giant pain in the ass for no real gain.
I think that's the point. If they're supposed to facilitate guerilla warfare, they need to be hard to get rid of.
--- Speaking of, does CCP have any ambitions for a larger mobile depot that can store ships effectively? The depot is handy, but something which allows ship storage is really going to be necessary for proper space colonization. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2261
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
Can someone flagged as criminal use a mobile depot to un-fit modules, so to avoid losing them to CONCORD? Would that be considered evading CONCORD as all the value used in the gank is not subject to CONCORD destruction? In most cases the modules are worth far more then the hull.
Actually thinking about this, the time it takes to unfit all your modules is rather long. I doubt you would get very far before you die. But if I'm out mining and a Tornado warps in and drops a depot; I think Ill leave before it becomes active. But still inquiring minds want to know. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
703
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
Currently two tractor units at range of eachothers end up, at some point or another, to exchange their wrecks repeatedly. Is it an inteded mechanic to prevent the use of multiple tractor structure at the same point ? G££ <= Me |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1048
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 21:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
Quote:I think that's the point. If they're supposed to facilitate guerilla warfare, they need to be hard to get rid of.
That's fine, but they cost under a million ISK. Even if you go through all the effort of removing one, it's completely and utterly meaningless because they're so easy to replace. Hell, why bother even storing them for the long term? Just bring them out whenever you go roaming, drop it when you need it, and scoop it when you're done. Or just leave it in the off chance you don't have one later.
I can easily see space being absolutely littered with these . |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2261
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Quote:I think that's the point. If they're supposed to facilitate guerilla warfare, they need to be hard to get rid of.
That's fine, but they cost under a million ISK. Even if you go through all the effort of removing one, it's completely and utterly meaningless because they're so easy to replace. Hell, why bother even storing them for the long term? Just bring them out whenever you go roaming, drop it when you need it, and scoop it when you're done. Or just leave it in the off chance you don't have one later. I can easily see space being absolutely littered with these . Its an issue. Also its been suggested that if you want to have a home in hostile space you use a GSC and store the depot in the GSC. Only bring it out when you want to refit. This has the advantage that the GSC cannot be probed out. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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M Thomas
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
35
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:05:00 -
[61] - Quote
So how many Depots can a single pilot deploy in space at the same time?
I'm thinking about a situation where a group of Carriers and Dreads are jumped while running a Sleeper site in wormhole space in their "home" system. They know they will die, deploy depots, wait 1 minute, start unfitting expensive mods. Now that loot is locked away in containers with 48 hour timers on them that can be scooped by the owners whenever they are out of danger. |
Lunaleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises Fatal Ascension
30
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:05:00 -
[62] - Quote
I like the addition of these structures but not the rules that govern them. They can be placed too close to stations and gates for my personal preferences. They will be everywhere due to their super low cost, but entirely way too hard to get rid of with a reinforcement timer (and shield recharge).
Raise the cost or remove the reinforcement. |
Xaarous
Fleetworks Silent Infinity
6
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:18:00 -
[63] - Quote
I have to agree that Anchoring I as a pre-req for anything that persists across sessions seems both realistic and - assuming you DON'T want these things showing up on trial accounts - practical.
Overall I love these new structures. My one suggestion for the "New Placeables" - have them auto-create a personal bookmark when you place them (or at least when they finish coming online).
Otherwise, I can imagine a lot of frustration when you finish a mission, drop the tractor unit, go turn in and reship to a Noctis, undock...and now you have to probe down your own structure. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
255
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:19:00 -
[64] - Quote
I'm somewhat agreeing with the issues people are posting. These are great for small gangs, but potentially abusive to large gangs also. Even a bit overkill.
The issues seem solely to be with the mobile depot.
1) should be nowhere near a starbase 2) should not be usable when in combat (aka your combat flagged).
I'm not sure what will happen if there is no limit. They might be thrown around like cans in space. Heck people could anchor a can in a deep safe (they are unscannable), throw this mobile unit out, refit here stuff, scoop it and put it in the anchored can for storage). No need to worry bout the unit cause hell, you just scooped it and put it into a can that can't be scanned down.
Wonder if that would work....
Anchor a can in a deep, throw a bunch of these in there, have your team warp to it, deploy, refit, scoop and drop back into can, warp off...
Someone try that :-) Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2262
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:23:00 -
[65] - Quote
M Thomas wrote:So how many Depots can a single pilot deploy in space at the same time?
I'm thinking about a situation where a group of Carriers and Dreads are jumped while running a Sleeper site in wormhole space in their "home" system. They know they will die, deploy depots, wait 1 minute, start unfitting expensive mods. Now that loot is locked away in containers with 48 hour timers on them that can be scooped by the owners whenever they are out of danger. If you are jumping carriers in W and see a depot appear, shoot it before it activates. Depots have to be 5 km apart, so that limits the number a pilot can use i the short time available before dieing. Also if there are two carriers near each other they may not be able to both deploy depots. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2263
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:27:00 -
[66] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Currently two tractor units at range of eachothers end up, at some point or another, to exchange their wrecks repeatedly. Is it an inteded mechanic to prevent the use of multiple tractor structure at the same point ? Think big: 10 tractor units and 10 wrecks. Or 100. Or 1000. Or lagging out Jita. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
704
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:33:00 -
[67] - Quote
If I fly a pimped ship in PvE (or incursions) and I have pre-anchored a mobile depot near me, I can just drop my stuff there before dying. Sweet !
And you said that a marauder soloting incursions was OP, but this... THIS is OP :D
In a PvP situation it would be cool that, if the mobile depot is in reinforced, you can only TAKE stuff from it, not being able to store anything. It would at least solve the issue of saving your fitting if you had a pre-anchored depot.
In a PvE situation however, I don't see how you could prevent people from unfitting and dropping all their fit into the depot before dying. But bypassing part of death consequences like this seems really bad imo.
Edit : Vincent Athena wrote:Altrue wrote:Currently two tractor units at range of eachothers end up, at some point or another, to exchange their wrecks repeatedly. Is it an inteded mechanic to prevent the use of multiple tractor structure at the same point ? Think big: 10 tractor units and 10 wrecks. Or 100. Or 1000. Or lagging out Jita.
I need to make a video of dancing wrecks in accelerated speed now ! G££ <= Me |
M Thomas
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
36
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:33:00 -
[68] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:M Thomas wrote:So how many Depots can a single pilot deploy in space at the same time?
I'm thinking about a situation where a group of Carriers and Dreads are jumped while running a Sleeper site in wormhole space in their "home" system. They know they will die, deploy depots, wait 1 minute, start unfitting expensive mods. Now that loot is locked away in containers with 48 hour timers on them that can be scooped by the owners whenever they are out of danger. If you are jumping carriers in W and see a depot appear, shoot it before it activates. Depots have to be 5 km apart, so that limits the number a pilot can use i the short time available before dieing. Also if there are two carriers near each other they may not be able to both deploy depots.
I was probably too specific in my example of abuse. Pretend I said null sec, low sec, high sec, with any situation were someone can quickly stash expensive loot after waiting 60 seconds. Not sure how having to watch for mobile depots to shoot before they anchor while trying to shoot space ships is a game play improvement. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
5455
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
Yeah. I definitely feel that the onlining time needs to be longer -- 2 minutes? 3? -- and that it shouldn't be scoopable while reinforced. Otherwise, you run into the exact issue listed before, where someone empties a reinforced depot, scoops, replants in the same spot, and laughs merrily as they recloak somewhere in system.
Further, increasing expense to something like 10m would be nifty. This way, they're not something that you just spooge over the map without concern-- while mobile and useful, they're still worth keeping an eye on.
My thoughts are basically as such: enabling guerrilla warfare isn't necessarily about giving players indestructible bases whereever they please, it's about giving them the basic ability to act and requiring vigilance on the part of the defender, such that the defender has an incentive to police and enforce their hold on territory. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4843
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:04:00 -
[70] - Quote
Excellent, but a couple of points?
1: Mobile Depot that is in reinforced mode can be scooped and then immediately redeployed at full? Or no? If so, that's a problem.
2: Perhaps it would be better if when exiting reinforced mode with zero shields that there is zero shield regen until the shield is repaired to +25% by someone, or the base is scooped and then redeployed after a suitable amount of time has passed. Actually, I think it would be best if they simply didn't regenerate at all until repaired above 25% period, even after being redeployed. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
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Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
356
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:11:00 -
[71] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Tippia wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:Can someone describe exact practical scenario in which Orca pilot will fit Tractor Beam instead of 3 mindlinks? Laser efficiency link, shield harmonizing link GÇö leaves one slot for a tractor for sucking up cans from spread-out Hulks. Locutus ofBorg wrote:Do we know if NPCs will agro onto tractor structures? Blog says no. Many orca pilots, including my alt, fit the shield harmonizing, and two laser links: range and speed. Orca pilots are going to use tractor units.
Why would You fit warefare link for a ship that is used to close wormholes??? Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
356
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:13:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Lolmer wrote:Shouldn't all of these deployables require " Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM). The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy.
is this step one into the removal of some of non-needed corporation managment skills like anchoring? Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
356
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:Depots will decay 30 days after the owner last interacts with it
Does the fitting service works if the ship has less than 25% shield or during RF?
Can i keep it living with logistics ships even on armor and still use it to combat refit? Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
358
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Altrue wrote:What happens if the mobile depot is getting shot while it's anchoring. Does it go into reinforced ? No, if shot below 25% shield during the activation period it does not enter reinforced mode and can be killed immediately.
what if it live trough activation time on structure or basically on low shield below 25% treshold? Can it still be used to refit? Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Tessen
Stellar Tide
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:17:00 -
[75] - Quote
Mobile Tractor Unit badly need an integrated Salvager... |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
358
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:18:00 -
[76] - Quote
Tessen wrote:Mobile Tractor Unit badly need an integrated Salvager...
Salvage drones ^^ Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Fire'Marshal Bill
Parks 'n Wrecks Wildlife Management
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:19:00 -
[77] - Quote
REPOST: The tractor Beam unit, can it be opened by anyone? Pilot only? Corp? Fleet? Shooting grants suspect as mentioned, but is it steal-capable?
I edited my post earlier, but haz not seen a replay. Probably just skimmed over due to edit. Thanks! |
Lair Osen
71
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:26:00 -
[78] - Quote
Fire'Marshal Bill wrote:REPOST: The tractor Beam unit, can it be opened by anyone? Pilot only? Corp? Fleet? Shooting grants suspect as mentioned, but is it steal-capable?
I edited my post earlier, but haz not seen a replay. Probably just skimmed over due to edit. Thanks!
You can destroy it and it will drop a can/wreck with some of the loot inside after dealing with the loot fairy. |
Lair Osen
71
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
Will there be a way to hide the Depot timer space icon from the UI? because I noticed on the test server, having RFd depots with big red icons all over the place is rather annoying? |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1796
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:29:00 -
[80] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:So if I want to kill a <1 million ISK deployable structure i need to shoot it, wait 48 hours, and hope that I come back within 10 minutes of it starting to regen its shields?
That's absurd. Space will be littered with them because they will just not be worth the coordination and effort to take down. They should require some tending to be capable of recharging their shields, and have a 24h reinforcement timer at the maximum. I agree, this is weird. I reckon the thing should be vulnerable for a good amount of time after coming out if they're not repped up.
How long will it take for it to go from zero percent shield to twenty-five percent after coming out of reinforced mode? |
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2263
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:29:00 -
[81] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Tippia wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:Can someone describe exact practical scenario in which Orca pilot will fit Tractor Beam instead of 3 mindlinks? Laser efficiency link, shield harmonizing link GÇö leaves one slot for a tractor for sucking up cans from spread-out Hulks. Locutus ofBorg wrote:Do we know if NPCs will agro onto tractor structures? Blog says no. Many orca pilots, including my alt, fit the shield harmonizing, and two laser links: range and speed. Orca pilots are going to use tractor units. Why would You fit warefare link for a ship that is used to close wormholes??? I use it to boost my mining fleet in high sec. Also to store the ore and spare crystals. The shield harmonizing link is to make the Hulks less vulnerable to ganks.
Currently you can scoop the mobile depot and redeploy it fully operational, even if it is in reinforced. I tested that on Sisi. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
257
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Lolmer wrote:Shouldn't all of these deployables require " Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM). The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy. is this step one into the removal of some of non-needed corporation managment skills like anchoring?
Originally the siphon unit had no anchoring skill requirement.
If you go back about 2 or 3 weeks ago, a few of us (me included) posted that having day 0 trial alts and biosmass characters mass spamming systems with mobile siphon units would be bad, as there would be 0 accountability for them, and there would be potential abuse of trial accounts for doing this. After the dev's discussed it, they changed it to require the anchoring skill (anchoring cannot be trained on trial accounts). That was the solution that was decided upon to at least somewhat address the possible spam of some of these units.
Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2263
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:33:00 -
[83] - Quote
Lair Osen wrote:Fire'Marshal Bill wrote:REPOST: The tractor Beam unit, can it be opened by anyone? Pilot only? Corp? Fleet? Shooting grants suspect as mentioned, but is it steal-capable?
I edited my post earlier, but haz not seen a replay. Probably just skimmed over due to edit. Thanks! You can destroy it and it will drop a can/wreck with some of the loot inside after dealing with the loot fairy. The tractor unit can be looted by anyone, no shooting required. If it is not yours, you get a suspect flag, just as if you looted wrecks that were not yours directly. Essentially its a jet can with a tractor.
But it does mean if you are ninja looting and find a mission space where one of these was left running, you got a one stop loot stealing opportunity. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
358
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:38:00 -
[84] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Altrue wrote:What happens if the mobile depot is getting shot while it's anchoring. Does it go into reinforced ? No, if shot below 25% shield during the activation period it does not enter reinforced mode and can be killed immediately. what if it live trough activation time on structure or basically on low shield below 25% treshold? Can it still be used to refit?
And bonus question: Can I scoop it when it is in armor/structure/below 25% shield? Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
362
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:41:00 -
[85] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Angry Mustache wrote:
From the patch notes, it seems like a depot owner will be able to scoop a reinforced Depot, then immediately re-plonk it to refresh the timer and put all his stuff back in. In essence, as long as you log in once every two days, your mobile depot and the stuff within is Perfectly Safe.
If the Mobile Depot provided anywhere near the strategic value of a POS or provided any income whatsoever that would be an excellent point Exactly, it doesn't provide an income, so why should it be much much easier to keep around, and (for all intents and purposes) nearly immune to attack. A 48 hour timer, plus the ability to scoop it while its reinforced, plus only a 10 minute window to hit it again (if it hasn't been scooped) means these things are simply not worth the effort to try to kill.
I guess you want these things spewed everywhere. This is way to defensively OP. http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4467
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:51:00 -
[86] - Quote
Turns out that the Mobile Depot has a 87% increase in Tornados landing on grid with it. While you are sleeping.
This working as intended? . |
stoicfaux
3352
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 23:51:00 -
[87] - Quote
The mobile depot is a mission runner's dream, more so if you run a laser boat:
1. warp in to pocket. 2. deploy mobile depot. after one minute, 3. swap between long and sort range waepons. This is "instant" for lasers and requires a 5-10 second reload for other weapons. 4. swap out for tank modules on the fly instead of warping out.
So far on sisi, the mobile depot doesn't allow you to use saved fittings, so you have to manually drag and drop items to from your cargo, container in cargo, or from the depot's cargo.
Which, IMHO, is going to lead to an increase in macro use to avoid tedious on the fly refitting. Which could lead to a slippery slope...
And that's ignoring the problem that MR's no longer have to put serious effort into fitting their ships, especially in regards to weapon ranges. OTOH, this could let CCP get rid of a lot of the hull range bonuses...
|
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 00:05:00 -
[88] - Quote
Whoever came up with this was criminally stupid.
"Oh, gee, my depot got put into reinforced mode." --> Scoop --> Redeploy
What a ****ing brilliant idea. Add in there the fact that it costs less than a million ISK, only takes up 50m3 of space, anchors in 1 minute, and has a vulnerability period after a 2-day reinforcement cycle of
TEN
FUCKING
MINUTES
These things are functionally unkillable--and not even worth destroying in the first place. :golfclap: |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 00:12:00 -
[89] - Quote
I kept trying to imagine CCP's thought process behind this but every time I did I came to the conclusion that there was no thought process. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1796
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 00:23:00 -
[90] - Quote
It's seriously actually ten minutes? I thought the dude I quoted earlier was being dramatic when he said that. I see CCP Masterplan's post now :S
That's insane. |
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1796
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 00:24:00 -
[91] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Currently you can scoop the mobile depot and redeploy it fully operational, even if it is in reinforced. I tested that on Sisi.
|
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 00:27:00 -
[92] - Quote
I guess we're going to have to resort to the usual approach when dealing with obstinate CCP staff designing really bad mechanics: it's time to abuse the hell out of them.
Load up an industrial or a freighter and pop out like 500 of them in a system and make it so that every time someone d-scans the system goes into reinforced a little, or when they try to scan for ships you get hundreds of worthless results. They're effectively unkillable and even if you lose one, so what? It's 1 million ISK. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
257
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 01:02:00 -
[93] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Currently you can scoop the mobile depot and redeploy it fully operational, even if it is in reinforced. I tested that on Sisi.
Yea that's a problem. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
257
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 01:18:00 -
[94] - Quote
Time to break the test server.
Deploy these things everywhere till the server grinds to a hault.
Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
|
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
388
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 01:19:00 -
[95] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I kept trying to imagine CCP's thought process behind this but every time I did I came to the conclusion that there was no thought process.
I'm pretty sure the thought process is "they're not worth killing, and killing them is a pain in the ass, so people will learn to deal with their presence."
I'm prepared to find out I'm wrong and the devs meant for these to be easy to get rid of, but I'm also fairly confident "not worth killing" is intentional. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8350
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 01:31:00 -
[96] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote: These things are functionally unkillable--and not even worth destroying in the first place.
You just solved your own problem by the end of the sentence. Good job.
We will of course be watching how all these structures are used and adjusting accordingly, but remember there are already "structures" you can drop in high security space that are even more difficult to kill and similarly worthy of destruction (anchored containers).
Also dropping items with the intent to cause lag is against the EULA no matter what the item so I would advise against it. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
Tessen
Stellar Tide
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 01:44:00 -
[97] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:Tessen wrote:Mobile Tractor Unit badly need an integrated Salvager... Salvage drones ^^ And Drone boat pilots ? They sacrifice DPS for salvaging ?
Mobile Tractor Unit definitively need an integrated Salvager. Even if this salvager is as innefficient as a salvage drone.
For a use in a large fleet fight, removing wreck is a good thing too. Just emptying wreck is... not enought. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 02:10:00 -
[98] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote: These things are functionally unkillable--and not even worth destroying in the first place.
You just solved your own problem by the end of the sentence. Good job.
Uh, no. Now I have a bunch of unkillable problems, because I don't like my enemies having invincible refitting and storage services spread throughout my space.
Unless you're arguing that's a good thing. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 02:14:00 -
[99] - Quote
I mean, are you really going to sit there and tell me it's worth investing 2 days of round-the-clock stakeout to make sure they don't move it and alarm-clocking for a 10-minute vulnerability period to remove what are essentially station services for someone that costs 1 million ISK and can be deployed wherever they want? |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
388
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 02:23:00 -
[100] - Quote
If it's not worth the hassle, don't do it. |
|
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 02:35:00 -
[101] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:If it's not worth the hassle, don't do it.
Explain to me why there should be invincible anything in this game. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
388
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 02:38:00 -
[102] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote: Explain to me why there should be invincible anything in this game.
They aren't invincible. Just a pain to kill. You already identified what you need to do to kill them. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 02:40:00 -
[103] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote: Explain to me why there should be invincible anything in this game.
They aren't invincible. Just a pain to kill. You already identified what you need to do to kill them.
"Titans aren't invincible. Just a pain to kill." --CCP 2006
We all know how that turned out. |
Zircon Dasher
294
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 02:43:00 -
[104] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Excellent, but a couple of points?
1: Mobile Depot that is in reinforced mode can be scooped and then immediately redeployed at full? Or no? If so, that's a problem.
2: Perhaps it would be better if when exiting reinforced mode with zero shields that there is zero shield regen until the shield is repaired to +25% by someone, or the base is scooped and then redeployed after a suitable amount of time has passed. Actually, I think it would be best if they simply didn't regenerate at all until repaired above 25% period, even after being redeployed.
As it stands right now:
A reinforced depot that is scooped and redeployed begins activating with ~24% shield (I saw anywhere from 23-25% by the time I locked with a ScyFI). I am guessing/hoping that is a bug.
A small named Shield rep can rep it from 0% to 25% in about 15 seconds- so not sure it really matters. v0v
I do find it strange that there is no loss in functionality when in reinforced mode though. I would have thought the fitting service would go offline at least..... Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1798
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 02:45:00 -
[105] - Quote
I get that it's supposed to help the lone player venture into nullsec or wormholes where they can't expect refitting services. But it's practically free, its scoopability and reinforce timer discourage combat (discourage player interaction) and there's no drawbacks at all. EVE is the game where your decisions have lasting consequences... right?
A player can use it to refit outside of combat and use it to store their stuff. That's fine. They can scoop it easily and move on. That's fine. But it shouldn't be almost unkillable by a single other pilot when it's a single person's object in space that costs nothing to set up. Why bother taking sov, setting up a starbase or using a carrier for refitting or storing items? You can use this thing for no risk, as long as you check it once a day or just scoop it when you don't need it! Someone reinforced it? Scoop, anchor, transfer items from can to depot. I can refit again! Guess the attacker's going to have to maintain a constant 48-hour vigil if they want me out of this system.
What kind of game counts on either my watching paint dry for two days or the other guy not logging on for two days for me to win a fight? Inversely, making me check my depot each day manually is a drag.
Maybe the idea here is that those darned goons can't blob my depot. I'm only a single player and blobbing my depot is unfair when I set it up in their spa--
Damn. Their space. The space they fought for. The space they own. The space where they're supposed to get advantages such as fitting services for owning. The space that's only livable because they make the effort to keep undesirables out of it. The space that suddenly is worth a whole lot less because just anyone can come in and set up shop making ISK in the space they made the effort to take and spent the ISK to upgrade while I'm bumming off their work basing out of an unkillable structure. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1799
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 02:46:00 -
[106] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:I do find it strange that there is no loss in functionality when in reinforced mode though. I would have thought the fitting service would go offline at least..... oh for christ's sake |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 03:03:00 -
[107] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Maybe the idea here is that those darned goons can't blob my depot. I'm only a single player and blobbing my depot is unfair when I set it up in their spa--
Damn. Their space. The space they fought for. The space they own. The space where they're supposed to get advantages such as fitting services for owning. The space that's only livable because they make the effort to keep undesirables out of it. The space that suddenly is worth a whole lot less because just anyone can come in and set up shop making ISK in the space they made the effort to take and spent the ISK to upgrade while I'm bumming off their work basing out of an unkillable structure.
CCP Fozzie wouldn't know much about holding space and all of the wonderfully horrible things you already have to do to own it considering he belonged to Pandemic Legion. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1799
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 03:13:00 -
[108] - Quote
I do want the depot to be a thing that works, it's just too good for the owner as it is, as I see it. But it does have to be skewed a bit in the defender's favour for the soloer to have a chance against the big guys, right?
Can it be improved like this?
Make the shield recharge slower, give it a one-or-two-hour window to destroy it. Have it so a cruiser or Bantam repping will get it to 25% shield in a timeframe of minutes. Put the structure mail back on, it encourages fights. That way, the attacker has a good window, and the defender has a good chance of saving it. And you have a better chance of both being at the same place at the same time.
Maybe the timer is randomised slightly. The defender knows the correct time the structure comes out, but the attacker has a margin of error.
And don't let players scoop the thing while it's reinforced. Continue to allow them to refit or take items out. They can refit to a combat setup or extract their most valuable stuff if they expect overwhelming force.
Ideally the defender can save their most valuable stuff in the worst-case scenario, but the attackers can remove the intruder from their space for a time by blowing up their base? |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
425
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 03:27:00 -
[109] - Quote
Iam Widdershins wrote:CCP Masterplan wrote:Converting the existing MWDs over to this new system I know you mean Mobile Warp Disruptor because of context, but this is why we players call them "bubbles"
I was wondering why he suddenly started talking about warp drives. That really is an acronym they need to change. Mobile Warp Bubble fits better, is more descriptive, and doesn't share acronyms with a VERY COMMON module.
CCP Masterplan wrote:Depots will decay 30 days after the owner last interacts with it
Fabulous, now can we get this to apply to EVERYTHING ELSE, POS liter is EVERYWHERE. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
370
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 03:29:00 -
[110] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:
Maybe the idea here is that those darned goons can't blob my depot. I'm only a single player and blobbing my depot is unfair when I set it up in their spa--
Damn. Their space. The space they fought for. The space they own. The space where they're supposed to get advantages such as fitting services for owning. The space that's only livable because they make the effort to keep undesirables out of it. The space that suddenly is worth a whole lot less because just anyone can come in and set up shop making ISK in the space they made the effort to take and spent the ISK to upgrade while I'm bumming off their work basing out of an unkillable structure.
So having more people living and operating in null sec is a bad thing?
I don't disagree with you though that in some respects these structures devalue aspects of Outposts. My knowledge may be a bit out of date but why would anyone now target an Outposts fitting service for example?
Very much like these structures for the most part, except that they all should require anchoring I, and depots perhaps are a bit too cheap considering their near invulnerability - now make them hackable and we're talking interesting stuff.
|
|
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
198
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 03:33:00 -
[111] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:I do want the depot to be a thing that works, it's just too good for the owner as it is, as I see it. But it does have to be skewed a bit in the defender's favour for the soloer to have a chance against the big guys, right?
Can it be improved like this?
Make the shield recharge slower, give it a one-or-two-hour window to destroy it. Have it so a cruiser or Bantam repping will get it to 25% shield in a timeframe of minutes. Put the structure mail back on, it encourages fights. That way, the attacker has a good window, and the defender has a good chance of saving it. And you have a better chance of both being at the same place at the same time.
Maybe the timer is randomised slightly. The defender knows the correct time the structure comes out, but the attacker has a margin of error.
And don't let players scoop the thing while it's reinforced. Continue to allow them to refit or take items out. They can refit to a combat setup or extract their most valuable stuff if they expect overwhelming force.
Ideally the defender can save their most valuable stuff in the worst-case scenario, but the attackers can remove the intruder from their space for a time by blowing up their base?
I don't think CCP intends these to be the object of fights, but the facilitators of other fights. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
984
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 03:36:00 -
[112] - Quote
Manssell wrote: I don't think CCP intends these to be the object of fights, but the facilitators of other fights.
Then maybe make them worth fighting over. |
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 03:44:00 -
[113] - Quote
Too powerful as is. Structures this cheap and individual should be very TEMPORARY. Design should be for pick up at end of current logon session. Reinforced mode of 1-3 hours is long enough to return from supply run or following escalation. I would tend to limit unvisited lifetime to 2 days (shield decay vs recharge from ship visit). Otherwise expect every low and null sec player to have scores of these deployed and the old can clutter to be recreated though not in belts.
Protecting something this cheap should be something of a trap - just like rescuing a buddies ship. And the trap is somewhat two way since an attacking fleet can waste hours hanging around for a structure you wrote off --- or find that it was bait for your larger ambush fleet (plenty of time to organize).
However, slightly larger and more expensive structures could well have much longer lives. But really it should scale down from cost of equivalent small POS and ship+hangar array. Say 1/3 the cost and have an actual strontium and fuel bay for reinforce lasting 24 hours+. So about 50M ISK and 1 fuel block per day (10 cube bay). |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
388
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 04:38:00 -
[114] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Manssell wrote: I don't think CCP intends these to be the object of fights, but the facilitators of other fights.
Then maybe make them worth fighting over.
That's literally the opposite of what he said. It's not supposed to be something people fight over. It's supposed to augment a gang's ability operate for an extended period of time in hostile space.
Benny Ohu wrote:Why bother taking sov, setting up a starbase or using a carrier for refitting or storing items? You can use this thing for no risk, as long as you check it once a day or just scoop it when you don't need it!
Possibly because a depot can, at best, hold one frigate. Which you can't actually use, because it's packaged and you can't assemble it. Meanwhile, a carrier can store, move, and assemble numerous ships. A station can store an infinite volume of ships, allows instantaneous repair and rearmament, and has grillions of EHP instead of 5000. You're right. I'm abandoning stations to live out of my yurt as soon as Rubicon drops.
Holy ****, people. It's not a collapsible CHA. It's not a mobile fortress. It's a field refitting service. Your enemies will not be able to stage out of your own space with impunity. They'll still need to get ships into your space, and they'll still need to find a way to store or hide them safely.
(Totally safe storage in hostile space already exists). |
Christmas Pickle
The Keyworks Aegis Requiem
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 04:47:00 -
[115] - Quote
A deployable one-time use, short duration "doppler" unit that pings cloaked ships within several AU. If they are on grid, it reveals their location in space and on the overview, however they remain cloaked and remain unable to be targeted. At off grid distances, the cloaked ships become probe-able (albeit more difficult than an uncloaked ship) for the duration of the unit. This allows pursuit of cloaked ships (although a vigilant pilot will be tough to catch) and discourages afk cloaking spies. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1049
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 05:17:00 -
[116] - Quote
Quote:We will of course be watching how all these structures are used and adjusting accordingly, but remember there are already "structures" you can drop in high security space that are even more difficult to kill and similarly worthy of destruction (anchored containers).
Only works with that "...in hisec" qualifier. Outside of CONCORDOKKEN for the anchored containers, these new structures you're adding are much, much harder to kill. If anchored containers were worth a **** then they would be used and lost often. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2265
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 05:24:00 -
[117] - Quote
Say you have an invader in your space, and the invader is using a depot. Many here seem to think the way to get rid of the invader is to kill his depot.
You got it backwards. The way you get rid of the depot is to kill the invader. Kill his ship, pod him home. Make it clear he is not wanted. Once he decides to move on you can find his depot and kill it without worrying about it getting re-deployed during the 2 day reinforcement. The only remaining annoyance is remembering the time it becomes vulnerable so you can finish it off. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
985
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 05:32:00 -
[118] - Quote
Assuming you just killed the invader he has a pretty ridiculous two entire days to come back and simply scoop and redeploy his depot. It's simply not feasible to prevent a person--especially in a post-Rubicon interceptor--from returning to a particular spot once for about a minute and a half in two days.
I love how in the devblog it says it will allow an "active" depot owner to save their shit. Yeah. "Active." Uh huh. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1049
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 06:01:00 -
[119] - Quote
Also, unless these are being used to actually store substantial assets, players won't even need to keep it up in space (and thus at risk of destruction) to use the refitting service. It's so cheap and small that, more likely, it will just be a standard item people put in their cargo when they go out roaming. It will be deployed ad-hoc when needed, then scooped up after. |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
154
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 06:18:00 -
[120] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Lolmer wrote:Shouldn't all of these deployables require " Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM). The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy. This is the biggest Cop-out in the entire thread, if it is anchored in space it should require at least Anchoring 1
|
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17400
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 06:25:00 -
[121] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:You just solved your own problem by the end of the sentence. Good job. So here's the thing. You know full well that EVE players will abuse the hell out of anything that can be abused even slightly GÇö it's just the nature of the game. So what is it with this recent policy of GÇ£wait and see if people abuse the hell out of itGÇ¥? Especially in the face of everyone+dog saying that, hey, we can abuse the hell out of this thingGǪ
Quote:We will of course be watching how all these structures are used and adjusting accordingly, but remember there are already "structures" you can drop in high security space that are even more difficult to kill and similarly worthy of destruction (anchored containers). Anchored cans offer services previously only available from POSes and stations now? Come on.
48h + 10 minutes is pretty silly on both ends of the spectrum: too long and too short, respectively. Halve one and increase the other by a factor of 10 or 20, and it becomes far more reasonable. The owner still has eons of time to save his stuff GÇö an advantage that is unique to this change-I-found-in-the-sofa-costing structure compared to every other deployable out there.
I can understand that you want to see these things in wide-spread use, but piling on so many advantages will lead to abuse, which means you have to annoy people later when their fancy swiss-army deployable inevitably has to be made sensible again. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Opaque Intent
Setenta Corp AL3XAND3R.
26
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 06:50:00 -
[122] - Quote
Hello. Could I have a deployable spy satellite for providing off-map intel support for Dust players please?
Being able to deploy Dust installations from orbit would also be nice, but probably would take a lot more development effort. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
704
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 07:06:00 -
[123] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:M Thomas wrote:So how many Depots can a single pilot deploy in space at the same time?
I'm thinking about a situation where a group of Carriers and Dreads are jumped while running a Sleeper site in wormhole space in their "home" system. They know they will die, deploy depots, wait 1 minute, start unfitting expensive mods. Now that loot is locked away in containers with 48 hour timers on them that can be scooped by the owners whenever they are out of danger. If you are jumping carriers in W and see a depot appear, shoot it before it activates. Depots have to be 5 km apart, so that limits the number a pilot can use i the short time available before dieing. Also if there are two carriers near each other they may not be able to both deploy depots.
Who said that they would have to start anchoring things during the fight ? Nope. Here is a better plan for wormholers :
1- At the beggining of your PVE activities on a site, have the carrier anchor a mobile depot with all the dreads around it. 2- Have a subcap ship put the depot in reinforced just because you can. 3- If something bad happens like PVP or PVE failure, just unfit everything, put it all into the carrier corp hangar bay. The carrier then puts the stuff into the mobile depot and everything is secure ! (Might be more complicated with capital modules but other very expensive and small modules can be saved) 4- ??? 5- Profit
3B - If nothing bad happens, just scoop back the mobile depot into your cargohold. 4- Move on to the next site, repeat. G££ <= Me |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
388
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 07:07:00 -
[124] - Quote
Tippia wrote: I can understand that you want to see these things in wide-spread use, but piling on so many advantages will lead to abuse, which means you have to annoy people later when their fancy swiss-army deployable inevitably has to be made sensible again.
What horrible abuse is going to result from the depot? It does two things: stores gear/loot and allows for in space refitting. Both of which are intended and hardly qualify it for the "swiss-army" moniker.
The most valid concern I've seen raised so far is that the difficulty of removing these will turn them into ubiquitous space litter, since most of the 'abuses' listed consist of the depot a) being used as intended or b) being used to cause lag. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17400
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 07:16:00 -
[125] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:What horrible abuse is going to result from the depot? It's next to impossible to remove. That's bad in and of itself. The kind of tactics that will develop that centres on this characteristic is largely unknown, I'll grant you, but they'll certainly share that one bad characteristic themselves, which is bad too.
It's not so much the litter GÇö that'll solve itself with its decay period GÇö but rather the fact that it allows for character littering as well to a vastly higher extent than before. The depots will get rid of themselves; getting rid of the people suddenly becomes a whole lot harder. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Angry Wife Agro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 07:29:00 -
[126] - Quote
CCP Fozzie, i know that its too early to ask, but these mobile structures is the first step towards revamped control towers? Maybe next expansion (summer expansion)? I am also worried about the fate of faction towers when new control tower system will be introduced. Can you shed some light upon this? I appreciate any info, even very dim :) |
Proddy Scun
Renfield Inc
33
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 08:19:00 -
[127] - Quote
Nice secure stash for lo sec and null pirates, raiders, ratters and explorers. Site runners will probably be the main users of ship fittings though. All of them can stash ammo and loot there when systems have no stations.
But if you want miners to move into lo sec -- a version of the mobile base that has more storage would be great 65K to 360K ideally at 25K-50K ISK. Heck most us would even trade away the ship fitting except maybe drone swapping. BIGGEST SECURE CAN ever. :)
Miner orgasm would be if you could link overflow from mobile tractor storage to a miner's version of the mobile depot. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8365
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 08:33:00 -
[128] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote: CCP Fozzie, can you answer my questions? Can a pilot flagged as criminal use a depot? Will doing so be considered evading CONCORD as all the assets used in the gank are not subject to CONCORD destruction?
Criminal flagged players are free to access depot services line anybody else, just as they can currently use orcas if they wish.
Unfitting modules doesn't count as evading CONCORD now on an orca, it won't count as evading CONCORD after Rubicon with the depot. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2240
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 08:34:00 -
[129] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:What horrible abuse is going to result from the depot? It does two things: stores gear/loot and allows for in space refitting. Both of which are intended and hardly qualify it for the "swiss-army" moniker. I would be disappointed if there isn't already a GARPA team working on answering your question.
Some new things others have already mentioned, that might not have been intended: * Chance to save one or more high-value modules before destruction. * Being able to swap ECM modules for the target's weaknesses. A gatecamp Falcon's wet-dream. * A very large drone bay. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
704
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 08:43:00 -
[130] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Milton Middleson wrote:What horrible abuse is going to result from the depot? It does two things: stores gear/loot and allows for in space refitting. Both of which are intended and hardly qualify it for the "swiss-army" moniker. I would be disappointed if there isn't already a GARPA team working on answering your question. Some new things others have already mentioned, that might not have been intended: * Chance to save one or more high-value modules before destruction. * Being able to swap ECM modules for the target's weaknesses. A gatecamp Falcon's wet-dream. * A very large drone bay.
That's the point. The mobile depot is a very nice structure, but it also enables too many game-breaking possibilities. Saving your stuff comes in first position, ECM in second.
The reason why POS bashing in WHs was frustrating was because SMAs did not dropped loot anymore. With the ability for pilots to unfit before dying as long as they have an anchored structure (which can be done as a security measure before any attack) it negates two important points of PvP in eve : 1- Killmails nerfed because isks destroyed are reduced 2- pvp loot is reduced. bonus 3- Huge buff to ECM when your gank is static.
And this is really, really bad. G££ <= Me |
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Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
390
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 08:50:00 -
[131] - Quote
Quote:Some new things others have already mentioned, that might not have been intended: * Chance to save one or more high-value modules before destruction. * Being able to swap ECM modules for the target's weaknesses. A gatecamp Falcon's wet-dream. * A very large drone bay.
-Well, if there is something shiny in there, you've got a reason to put up the effort involved in killing it, and you can be moderately confident that the owner will come for it. Content generated. Plus, if you're getting your ass beat that hard, they can probably nuke the depot before it anchors. -Really annoying, but mostly gratuitous, and not really abuse in any event. It will hardly be the only example of rapid refitting to situational counters. -Again, limitations on use in combat (e.g. even brawling ships move around quite a lot). Plus, you have to get the drones into the depot, which means you're still constrained by the ship's cargo hold. Out of combat, doesn't seem unintended, and helps mitigate the low endurance of drone ships.
edit: Ono, the targedy. My killmails might be worth a bit less. I take it all back. CCP, you need to ditch this right away. It will ruin Eve. |
Rabbit P
Die Valkyrja Pangu Coalition
6
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 09:16:00 -
[132] - Quote
About the reinforcement of depot
it can be scooped into cargo while reinforced , then can it be deployed again immediately? if it can be deployed again immediately, how many shield does it have? does it still under reinforced? can I start to repair it? if it can't, how long do we need to wait to deploy it again? |
Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 09:20:00 -
[133] - Quote
Dear CCP,
About mobile depot, You need to increase the activation time.
Because now it's possible to abuse a lot.
First case : Dread fleet, you don't need to have carrier to refit, all dread need to have one or two mobile depot for refitting (hardener or tracking or capa etc).
Second case : dominix or other drone fleet, you can add some extra drone on your cargo and add them on the drone bay during the fight.
etc ...
We need to increase massively the activation time. The minimum must be 10 minutes.
Also that will be a great idea to add some structure to steal the offline pos.
Mobile breaking offline control tower (or something like that) |
Green Gambit
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
43
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 09:43:00 -
[134] - Quote
Xaarous wrote:Overall I love these new structures. My one suggestion for the "New Placeables" - have them auto-create a personal bookmark when you place them (or at least when they finish coming online).
I want this, but bookmarks is the wrong way to do it - I don't want to have to be constantly going and cleaning out bookmarks for old structures - especially bubbles if they move into the system.
So what I'd like to see is a new group for owned and anchored items, same as moons/belts/planets/stations, it's appears only when there's something there.
It would also be nice if corp/alliance items also allowed auto-warp-to as the system is expanded to corp/alliance items. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
985
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 10:15:00 -
[135] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Well, if there is something shiny in there, you've got a reason to put up the effort involved in killing it
The effort needed to kill just one is hilariously unreasonable. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1805
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 10:22:00 -
[136] - Quote
To everyone saying the depots are invulnerable, I challenge you to deploy a bunch in front of VFK undock and keep them alive for as long as you can.
Worst case, you prove yourself right. Best case, you provide us with content. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1274
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 10:31:00 -
[137] - Quote
So will Mobile Tractor Unit tractor a loot yelow wrecks in high sec, or only owners ones(white) and abondoned(blue) ?
1. Mobile Tractor Unit 2. Gank stufff 3. ... 4. Profit! |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
985
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 10:33:00 -
[138] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:To everyone saying the depots are invulnerable, I challenge you to deploy a bunch in front of VFK undock and keep them alive for as long as you can.
Worst case, you prove yourself right. Best case, you provide us with content.
Deal. Oh, and if I keep it alive longer than a week, you owe me 500M. |
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 10:47:00 -
[139] - Quote
Hey all! CCP Lebowski here to trawl the thread and answer questions that fell by the wayside.
Fire'Marshal Bill wrote:The tractor Beam unit, can it be opened by anyone? Pilot only? Corp? Fleet? Shooting grants suspect as mentioned, but is it steal-capable? The Mobile Tractor Unit can only be opened by the owner, but can be killed by anyone. When killed it will drop a proportion of its loot.
Daedalus II wrote:What happens to a cyno that is already up when the cyno inhibitor activates? A cyno that is already up will finish its current cycle then deactivate.
Max Kolonko wrote:Does the fitting service works if the ship has less than 25% shield or during RF? The fitting service does NOT work during the Depots activation or during reinforcement, meaning the best way to stop it being effective is shooting it before it comes online or shooting it into reinforcement once it is. In addition to this, depots cannot be rescooped while they are activating, giving aggressors a chance to kill them before the owner can do anything to save them. CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0 |
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Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
985
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 10:58:00 -
[140] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote: In addition to this, depots cannot be rescooped while they are activating, giving aggressors a chance to kill them before the owner can do anything to save them.
...The activation time is just one minute. |
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Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
985
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 11:04:00 -
[141] - Quote
I mean, every once in a greeeeeat while, you'll catch somebody onlining a POS. You know, a large structure, immobile, and also (unlike the yurts) at a default warp-in accessible from the drop down menu. POSes also have onlining timers of somewhere between 7 1/2 and 60 minutes or so. It's extremely rare despite all of these, and when it does happen it's usually because the POS was being put up in a populated area (read: warzone).
So...yeah. 1-minute onlining timers. Gonna be loads of yurts blown up during that time period. Oh yeah. Loads. |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3656
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 11:08:00 -
[142] - Quote
Awesome! Great direction to take the game towards.
Personal depot timers and mechanics might need a bit of rethinking, I can't see how they could ever be destroyed unless the owner happens not to login for a few days, but all in all these are great additions!
Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
286
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 11:25:00 -
[143] - Quote
Does the cyno inhibitor thingy affect POS cyno beacons? I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
96
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 11:30:00 -
[144] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Lolmer wrote:Shouldn't all of these deployables require " Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM). The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy.
Once the Jita wannabe pies are bored of shooting them and Jita 4.4 has 5'000 ganet dropped depots and tractors around it how long will it take to load the grid ?
|
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 11:32:00 -
[145] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I mean, every once in a greeeeeat while, you'll catch somebody onlining a POS. You know, a large structure, immobile, and also (unlike the yurts) at a default warp-in accessible from the drop down menu. POSes also have onlining timers of somewhere between 7 1/2 and 60 minutes or so. It's extremely rare despite all of these, and when it does happen it's usually because the POS was being put up in a populated area (read: warzone).
So...yeah. 1-minute onlining timers. Gonna be loads of yurts blown up during that time period. Oh yeah. Loads. Apologies, I think we have crossed wires here.
My point wasn't that you will happen across pilots onlining Mobile Depots, but that when on grid with a pilot who attempts to deploy mobile depot it will be difficult for them to deploy it without you killing it before its activation is done, or failing that, reinforcing it very quickly, meaning its fitting service is disabled and it would need to be scooped and launched again before being useful.
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0 |
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
370
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 12:18:00 -
[146] - Quote
Just curious about why you chose 2 minutes on the spool up time for cyno jammers?
Why not 15s or 30s or 60s or 90s or even 10 minutes?
The limited range of them kind of suggests them being useful to stop 'blap' dreads etc, but then with 2 minutes to cycle up its highly unlikely to prevent 'hotdroppers' from escalating and getting on grid before the spool up unless the 'defenders' have them spooled up before they get on the field (ie will we need a gate to gate convoy of them in order to move a BS fleet around low?)
I'm just wondering if these things will prevent more fights than making fights more interesting?
Oh, and this is one structure I think should be able to be put close to gates (but not stations)... |
Zircon Dasher
294
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 12:59:00 -
[147] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:The fitting service does NOT work during the Depots activation or during reinforcement, meaning the best way to stop it being effective is shooting it before it comes online or shooting it into reinforcement once it is. In addition to this, depots cannot be rescooped while they are activating, giving aggressors a chance to kill them before the owner can do anything to save them.
Does this mean I should bug report fitting services working during reinforcement?
Because, as of last night, it was doable on SISI.
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Vyger
S0utherN Comfort Against ALL Authorities
12
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 13:11:00 -
[148] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Lolmer wrote:Shouldn't all of these deployables require " Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM). The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy. Once the Jita wannabe pies are bored of shooting them and Jita 4.4 has 5'000 ganet dropped depots and tractors around it how long will it take to load the grid ?
The grid isn't large enough for these things to be deployed in that sort of density. Not when they have to be placed 10km apart.
Besides, the Jita 4-4 undock already has bigger issues. |
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 13:13:00 -
[149] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Does this mean I should bug report fitting services working during reinforcement?
Because, as of last night, it was doable on SISI. Singularity was updated this morning and on the newest build this is working as I outlined. However if you find anything else you think is incorrect or contradicts anything we've said, please do report it and I'll look into it.
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0 |
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Zircon Dasher
294
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 13:15:00 -
[150] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:Does this mean I should bug report fitting services working during reinforcement?
Because, as of last night, it was doable on SISI. Singularity was updated this morning and on the newest build this is working as I outlined. However if you find anything else you think is incorrect or contradicts anything we've said, please do report it and I'll look into it.
Good to know. Cheers! Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1805
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 14:07:00 -
[151] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:So having more people living and operating in null sec is a bad thing?
I don't disagree with you though that in some respects these structures devalue aspects of Outposts. My knowledge may be a bit out of date but why would anyone now target an Outposts fitting service for example?
Very much like these structures for the most part, except that they all should require anchoring I, and depots perhaps are a bit too cheap considering their near invulnerability - now make them hackable and we're talking interesting stuff.
I'm fine with more people being in null - but the depot offers an advantage normally available only with significant investment. This'd be OK but it's also almost impossible to kill, tedious to kill when you get your chance, and is not really at risk. The locals deserve a proper chance to fight off the guy using the depot. Including the yurt and whatever was left inside. |
Mike Metcalf
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 14:08:00 -
[152] - Quote
Jeez Guys, even a GSC requires Anchoring 1, and these things provide MORE utility than that does. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1805
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 14:10:00 -
[153] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:The fitting service does NOT work during the Depots activation or during reinforcement, meaning the best way to stop it being effective is shooting it before it comes online or shooting it into reinforcement once it is. In addition to this, depots cannot be rescooped while they are activating, giving aggressors a chance to kill them before the owner can do anything to save them. If I'm a depot owner and it goes into reinforce, I have an entire two days to scoop and anchor. I spend an entire one minute in space in two days to undo what was done, and the aggressor has no idea when I'm going to do it. This is not a drawback for the owner of the depot. In fact, making them this tedious and difficult to kill means it's not worth trying. This is not a good thing. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1805
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 14:18:00 -
[154] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:That's literally the opposite of what he said. It's not supposed to be something people fight over. It's supposed to augment a gang's ability operate for an extended period of time in hostile space. At the expense of the people who fought, worked and paid for that space. Those people who can't kick you out! I'm fine with a yurt. But not one that's horrible to destroy even when the guy who owns it doesn't even log on, and if he does it's basically invulnerable. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4844
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 14:39:00 -
[155] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Milton Middleson wrote:That's literally the opposite of what he said. It's not supposed to be something people fight over. It's supposed to augment a gang's ability operate for an extended period of time in hostile space. At the expense of the people who fought, worked and paid for that space. Those people who can't kick you out! I'm fine with a yurt. But not one that's horrible to destroy even when the guy who owns it doesn't even log on, and if he does it's basically invulnerable. No, but you can render it largely useless to him quite quickly... and then focus on killing the person who deployed it.
If he's not around to scoop or redeploy it, it is a trivial matter to kill it... you just have to remember (and consider it important enough) to show up at the right time to pop it. And they are very easy to kill. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1805
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 14:56:00 -
[156] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:If he's not around to scoop or redeploy it, it is a trivial matter to kill it... you just have to remember (and consider it important enough) to show up at the right time to pop it. And they are very easy to kill. If he's not around to scoop or redeploy his mobile base. You just have to remember to wait around two days. For a ten-minute window. Hope the guy completely forgot about his yurt and didn't bother logging on. Then shoot it. If the guy did remember to log on, if you looked away from the yurt for one minute during your two-day guarding of the reinforce timer, the yurt is back without a reinforce timer.
What a great mechanic it is, to rely on someone forgetting to log on for two days so you can shoot their yurt. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
392
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 15:52:00 -
[157] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote: At the expense of the people who fought, worked and paid for that space. Those people who can't kick you out! I'm fine with a yurt. But not one that's horrible to destroy even when the guy who owns it doesn't even log on, and if he does it's basically invulnerable.
Mobile Depots do not, by any reasonable criteria, allow you to live in hostile space. You have very limited storage. You have no medical facilities. You have no reshipping capability. The only way to safely store the ship you are in is cloaking or logging off. The locals can trivially kick you out by blowing up your ship. If they can't manage that after Rubicon, they probably couldn't manage it before.
Quote:What a great mechanic it is, to rely on someone forgetting to log on for two days so you can shoot their yurt.
Or you could, you know, not shoot their depot, since you seem to think it's a waste of time. I don't know why the premise is giving you so much trouble: the depots are meant to facilitate conflict, not drive it. Shooting someone's depot isn't meant to generate a fight, not the least because they are hardly worth defending unless you stuffed them full of deadspace and faction mods (in which case: stop being an idiot and use a secure container). |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
988
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 15:59:00 -
[158] - Quote
I can't deny someone fitting services in my space that I own despite an active presence by me and a minimal presence by them. The cost to them is effectively nothing. The cost to me is days of effort to remove a nearly-free fitting services and storage object. And there's nothing stopping them from deploying fifteen or so more.
This really would not be a problem if they were killable. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
392
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 16:07:00 -
[159] - Quote
Quote:I can't deny someone fitting services in my space that I own despite an active presence by me and a minimal presence by them.
Your objection has nothing to do with the difficulty of killing them. Anything larger than a shuttle can carry a depot with it, and pick it up again as soon they're done using it. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
988
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 16:12:00 -
[160] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Your objection has nothing to do with the difficulty of killing them.
Go back and read my posts. |
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Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
392
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 16:19:00 -
[161] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Milton Middleson wrote:Your objection has nothing to do with the difficulty of killing them. Go back and read my posts. Perhaps I should have been more specific. Your objection is, apparently, that they're going to exist and actually be usable for their intended purpose. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2268
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 16:24:00 -
[162] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Assuming you just killed the invader he has a pretty ridiculous two entire days to come back and simply scoop and redeploy his depot. It's simply not feasible to prevent a person--especially in a post-Rubicon interceptor--from returning to a particular spot once for about a minute and a half in two days.
I love how in the devblog it says it will allow an "active" depot owner to save their shit. Yeah. "Active." Uh huh. Hence why I said "Make it clear he is not wanted. Once he decides to move on you can find his depot and kill it without worrying about it getting re-deployed during the 2 day reinforcement." You got to ruin his fun in your system. Convince him to go play elsewhere, in some other system, because its no fun to return to yours. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
988
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 16:33:00 -
[163] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote: Perhaps I should have been more specific. Your objection is, apparently, that they're going to exist and actually be usable for their intended purpose.
Mara Tessidar wrote:Uh, no. Now I have a bunch of unkillable problems, because I don't like my enemies having invincible refitting and storage services spread throughout my space.
Unless you're arguing that's a good thing.
Mara Tessidar wrote:Explain to me why there should be invincible anything in this game.
Mara Tessidar wrote:Assuming you just killed the invader he has a pretty ridiculous two entire days to come back and simply scoop and redeploy his depot. It's simply not feasible to prevent a person--especially in a post-Rubicon interceptor--from returning to a particular spot once for about a minute and a half in two days.
I love how in the devblog it says it will allow an "active" depot owner to save their shit. Yeah. "Active." Uh huh.
Mara Tessidar wrote:The effort needed to kill just one is hilariously unreasonable.
Yeah my objection has nothing to do with them being effectively unkillable. Nothing at all. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
392
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 16:48:00 -
[164] - Quote
They're only hard to kill if someone is trying to keep one alive, and if you don't want to put out the effort to get rid of one, that sounds like a personal problem to me.
Of course, since the difficulty of destroying them via reinforcement is borderline irrelevant due to there being minimal reason to leave them in space, I presume your objection is more generally that it's almost impossible to stop someone from using their depot to refit in hostile space. That would at least be a reasonable objection. It's just that such an objection is against the depot as a concept rather than their proposed durability. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
995
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 17:15:00 -
[165] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:They're only hard to kill if someone is trying to keep one alive
Yeah they have to spend a whole minute scooping it up and redeploying it. So much effort needed to keep it alive. So much. |
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 17:24:00 -
[166] - Quote
Hey Folks,
After reading through your concerns about the small window of opportunity for destruction after a Mobile Depot exits reinforcement, CCP Fozzie has decided to significantly slow down the shield recharge rate of all Mobile Depots.
Therefore, the total shield recharge time of the Mobile Depots has been extended to 24 hours. This means it takes around 3.5 hours to recharge 25% of its shield.
We hope this alleviates some of your concerns and thanks again for your continued feedback! CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0 |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4656
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 17:34:00 -
[167] - Quote
I am usually quite sceptical (at best) about additions to the game, but I have to say that I appreciated the change of mindset that made CCP Fozzie write:
These Mobile Structures are all personally owned
Unlike Starbases, these Mobile Structures belong to individual pilots, not to corporations ...
This means that even CCP might finally begin to understand that 2003 is over, that modern players don't come with many hours a day to play the nice but demanding "community game".
It's hard to belong to a relevant corporation when one can play 30 minutes a day at random hours.
Now, FW, seen as a "casual way to PvP" begun to fix this issue but we still had the non PvP structure requirements that demanded the players to either be in a good enough corp or forget leaving hi sec. I have lived the low sec lone wolf style and even WH lone wolf but I felt it to be not really fun. Imagine having a pirate corp attacking my low sec POS, who's going to come help me at say Aussie time zone? Being at least able to setup nimble, flexible stuff at my own times and at my own responsibility without having to resort to others might show as a step back from the "forced community, be in a blobby null sec corp" EvE mantra but I and others will definitely enjoy it. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Berluth Luthian
Meltdown.
125
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 17:35:00 -
[168] - Quote
I'm unfamiliar with the mechanics of combat refitting as, up until now, it is mostly a capital fleet activity, of which I'm not very experienced.
If I'm locked/scrammed (+2), can I access the supply depot, put on some extra warp stabs, and then warp away? If I CAN combat refit, what happens to the modules effecting my current state while refitting? If so, I'm thinkin that this will have a drastically positive effect for making lowsec/nullsec mining a little safer.
Example: I'm in half armor while shield tanking. If I refit to a max armor tank, what happens to my HP? I think there are a lot of scenarios in which swapping out modules should have changes in effects on the using ship or the targetted ship... Could someone clarify how this works? |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5487
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 17:53:00 -
[169] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: It's hard to belong to a relevant corporation when one can play 30 minutes a day at random hours.
"please bar all advantages to interacting with other players in this massively multiplayer online game thanks in advance" "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Aliastra Gallente Federation
108
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 18:27:00 -
[170] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Hey Folks,
After reading through your concerns about the small window of opportunity for destruction after a Mobile Depot exits reinforcement, CCP Fozzie has decided to significantly slow down the shield recharge rate of all Mobile Depots.
Therefore, the total shield recharge time of the Mobile Depots has been extended to 24 hours. This means it takes around 3.5 hours to recharge 25% of its shield.
We hope this alleviates some of your concerns and thanks again for your continued feedback!
Nice, thanks!! |
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Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Forsak3n.
384
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 19:09:00 -
[171] - Quote
Unfortunately, I have to agree with Mara about the practical invulnerability of the mobile depot. The ability to scoop and then redeploy the unit while reinforced is pretty OP. Coupled with the tiny window of opportunity to actually kill it, it would have been almost impossible to remove one even if you killed the owner. He could just come back in a new bubble proof interceptor and scoop redeploy again. Near zero risk.
However, with the now extended shield recharge timer, it isn't as difficult because the thing will have to now recharge from 0 shields to above 25% before it will benefit from another reinforcement timer. Therefore you will now have a reasonable window of opportunity to warp to the depot and kill it.
If you are lazy and the depot owner is not, it will stay in place. If the owner is lazy and you are not, it will not stay in place.
Systems with a significant and regular population, such as ratting systems, will have people warping to these regularly to check and/or reinforce them.
This rewards an active play-style on both sides. Thanks to CCP Fozzie for the adjustment.
oh, right. inb4 bomber pilots use these to swap between bomb launchers, probe launchers, and covert cyno fits. vOv Free Ripley Weaver! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17412
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 19:22:00 -
[172] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Hey Folks,
After reading through your concerns about the small window of opportunity for destruction after a Mobile Depot exits reinforcement, CCP Fozzie has decided to significantly slow down the shield recharge rate of all Mobile Depots.
Therefore, the total shield recharge time of the Mobile Depots has been extended to 24 hours. This means it takes around 3.5 hours to recharge 25% of its shield.
We hope this alleviates some of your concerns and thanks again for your continued feedback! Much more reasonable.
It already has double layers of security (reinforcement + scoop while reinforced) so the third layer of having a ridiculously small time period of actual vulnerability was a bit too much. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4469
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 19:58:00 -
[173] - Quote
Haha! I had no idea there was so many null bears outraged about the idea of someone using the space they don't. So many null bear tears and Rubicon is not even out yet. . |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3658
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 20:14:00 -
[174] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Hey Folks,
After reading through your concerns about the small window of opportunity for destruction after a Mobile Depot exits reinforcement, CCP Fozzie has decided to significantly slow down the shield recharge rate of all Mobile Depots.
Therefore, the total shield recharge time of the Mobile Depots has been extended to 24 hours. This means it takes around 3.5 hours to recharge 25% of its shield.
We hope this alleviates some of your concerns and thanks again for your continued feedback!
Very nice!
Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |
Tavarus Excavar
Obsidian Firelance Technologies
12
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 20:27:00 -
[175] - Quote
How hard would it be for at least the mobile depot and the auto looter to auto generate bookmarks? |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
995
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 21:34:00 -
[176] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Hey Folks,
After reading through your concerns about the small window of opportunity for destruction after a Mobile Depot exits reinforcement, CCP Fozzie has decided to significantly slow down the shield recharge rate of all Mobile Depots.
Therefore, the total shield recharge time of the Mobile Depots has been extended to 24 hours. This means it takes around 3.5 hours to recharge 25% of its shield.
We hope this alleviates some of your concerns and thanks again for your continued feedback!
Not bad. Not bad at all. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2260
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 21:40:00 -
[177] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Haha! I had no idea there was so many null bears outraged about the idea of someone using the space they don't. So many null bear tears and Rubicon is not even out yet.
Expanding the window of vulnerability means that a mobile home that was reinforced living or dying depends far more on the actions of players rather than a passive game system recharging the shields for you. I'd think you'd approve, what with how much you whine about POS and "passive income" - clearly you think passive things are bad! Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4656
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 22:26:00 -
[178] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: It's hard to belong to a relevant corporation when one can play 30 minutes a day at random hours.
"please bar all advantages to interacting with other players in this massively multiplayer online game thanks in advance"
Poor, insignificant victims you are.
All EvE see how pitiful is the poverty status of your organization, I mean you are forced to go beg two cents outside the church! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1844
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 23:17:00 -
[179] - Quote
Can someone explain to me why a hostile spaceyurt in your space is such a bad thing?
The spaceyurt consists of two components: an internal storage and a fitting service.
The fitting service is disabled immediately by putting the yurt in reinforced mode.
The internal storage is inferior to that of a secure container, which is unscannable and therefore practically invulnerable.
What is so bad about spaceyurts that doesn't already apply to anchored containers? |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
156
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 01:11:00 -
[180] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Can someone explain to me why a hostile spaceyurt in your space is such a bad thing?
The spaceyurt consists of two components: an internal storage and a fitting service.
The fitting service is disabled immediately by putting the yurt in reinforced mode.
The internal storage is inferior to that of a secure container, which is unscannable and therefore practically invulnerable.
What is so bad about spaceyurts that doesn't already apply to anchored containers? They don't even require Anchoring 1 to deploy? |
|
Zircon Dasher
299
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 02:12:00 -
[181] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Hey Folks,
After reading through your concerns about the small window of opportunity for destruction after a Mobile Depot exits reinforcement, CCP Fozzie has decided to significantly slow down the shield recharge rate of all Mobile Depots.
Therefore, the total shield recharge time of the Mobile Depots has been extended to 24 hours. This means it takes around 3.5 hours to recharge 25% of its shield.
We hope this alleviates some of your concerns and thanks again for your continued feedback!
Right now, when you scoop & redeploy a reinforced depot it pops into space with about 23-24% shield. By the time it finishes activating the shield is over the 25% mark.
If my math is right (and it might not be.... it was done in my head) the new recharge time will make it so that, all things being equal, it will be about 10min from the time the depot is dumped into space until the it reaches the 25% mark.
Are you going to let that stay as is, or are you going to adjust the 'starting' HP so that it will be at 25% once it finished activating? Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1815
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 04:09:00 -
[182] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Hey Folks,
After reading through your concerns about the small window of opportunity for destruction after a Mobile Depot exits reinforcement, CCP Fozzie has decided to significantly slow down the shield recharge rate of all Mobile Depots.
Therefore, the total shield recharge time of the Mobile Depots has been extended to 24 hours. This means it takes around 3.5 hours to recharge 25% of its shield.
We hope this alleviates some of your concerns and thanks again for your continued feedback! This is excellent, thankyou.
I'm still worried about being able to scoop+redeploy while the depot is in reinforced mode. If it only takes a minute to redeploy to remove the timer and immediately get fitting services back, the aggressors have almost no chance at all of catching the owner in two whole days, and the owner is not at all inconvenienced
If the game remembered the reinforce timer and still counted it down while the depot was scooped, then, when deployed, put the timer back on the depot, the timer and loss of fitting would actually be an inconvenience for the owner. But the owner would still be able to rescue and change location of the depot and retrieve their items. |
Jake Centauri
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 04:27:00 -
[183] - Quote
I'd like to see some negative ship effects and/or flags applied to the ships deploying all this new space debris. I'm concerned that all these new mobile structures will turn the game completely upside down. Cynos for example have 10 mins of inability to move when lighting a cyno. A ship deploying a mobile structure, in a similar vein, should have some penalties applied to it, like -90% speed, longer warp time, reduced shields and armor, inability to jump or dock, whatever. You can't have people with no skills or just Anchoring 3 deploying all this crap and warping off. |
Rhavas
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
190
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 06:44:00 -
[184] - Quote
Had too many thoughts for the forum, so wrote a blogpost.
Flotsam and Jetsam
TLDR:
- SMA & T3 refit changes good
- Siphon and Tractor good
- Depot is terrible - ditch the reinforce timer (other ideas how to address in the post)
- Cyno inhibitor is good for gatecampers, bad for roamers. Reduce setup timer to 30 seconds (post includes timeline log) and make much cheaper.
Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary |
Rhavas
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
190
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 06:55:00 -
[185] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Haha! I had no idea there was so many null bears outraged about the idea of someone using the space they don't. So many null bear tears and Rubicon is not even out yet. Expanding the window of vulnerability means that a mobile home that was reinforced living or dying depends far more on the actions of players rather than a passive game system recharging the shields for you. I'd think you'd approve, what with how much you whine about POS and "passive income" - clearly you think passive things are bad!
There shouldn't be a timer at all, TBH. Give it more HP and let it blow up like the Tractor. Or if you must have a RF mechanism, let the timer start immediately on deployment, make it invulnerable for 48h, and then let it be exploded at will. Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4471
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:22:00 -
[186] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Haha! I had no idea there was so many null bears outraged about the idea of someone using the space they don't. So many null bear tears and Rubicon is not even out yet. Expanding the window of vulnerability means that a mobile home that was reinforced living or dying depends far more on the actions of players rather than a passive game system recharging the shields for you. I'd think you'd approve, what with how much you whine about POS and "passive income" - clearly you think passive things are bad! I do approve of the window of vulnerability being increased. Even gave the update a thumbs up. But, typical of you to read a post and then build a strawman to argue with. . |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
65
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 15:45:00 -
[187] - Quote
Mobile depot -> allow for fleet?
ty |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1864
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 15:48:00 -
[188] - Quote
Lucas Quaan wrote:Mobile depot -> allow for fleet?
ty I have to agree. Sooner or later you will see fleet doctrines built around refitting on the fly, and 250 people dropping yurts in space will make the node crap itself. |
Vyger
S0utherN Comfort Against ALL Authorities
12
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 15:54:00 -
[189] - Quote
Currently the only way for a fleet to refit on the fly is to have a carrier within fitting range. This is true post-rubicon too. You won't see 250 yurts on field in a 250 man fleet because the yurts need to be deployed 10km apart.
|
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1864
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 16:07:00 -
[190] - Quote
So starburst, then drop yurts. Or even have everyone make their own safe. Either way it's 250 deployables in space where one would suffice.
Make a fleet depot that's 20 times more expensive if you must.
(edit: I don't claim to know the effects of a single deployable on the servers. For all I know it could be no worse than launching a single drone. But it would be much better to see CCP acknowledge this issue now rather than after a node crash.) |
|
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
65
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 18:42:00 -
[191] - Quote
Vyger wrote:Currently the only way for a fleet to refit on the fly is to have a carrier within fitting range. This is true post-rubicon too. You won't see 250 yurts on field in a 250 man fleet because the yurts need to be deployed 10km apart.
It's not so much for refitting a whole fleet, but if you are out with a roaming gang and burn out your MWDs or something, it would be nice to refit off the gang depot rather than have to deploy for each member with a burned out mod. |
Vyger
S0utherN Comfort Against ALL Authorities
12
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 19:13:00 -
[192] - Quote
No doubt they're going to be invaluable to small gangs. I was merely using the previous poster's example.
I look forward to carrying these things around with me en masse when they hit TQ. Space yurts, covert drone boats that do the same DPS as a bomber and interceptors that can catch everything. Rubicon is the best christmas present CCP could ever give to someone like me. |
Hi O
Galactic Organization of Tariff and Trade.
4
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 03:21:00 -
[193] - Quote
Thank you, CCP Fozzie. And thanks for filling the most difficult relic sites with all those Capital Emission Scope Sharpener II blueprints. Totally gonna make exploration in my Leviathan a breeze. |
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
66
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 05:01:00 -
[194] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:So starburst, then drop yurts. Or even have everyone make their own safe. Either way it's 250 deployables in space where one would suffice.
Make a fleet depot that's 20 times more expensive if you must.
.)
All-in-all I see potential in smaller corps using a version of these as a makeshift POS replacement with lower upkeep yet only basic functionality and I like that premise. Having the yurts openable to other characters on the same account might be cool, too.
Now then, if we could get mobile ore storage I might start WH mining in empty holes again... |
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
66
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 05:13:00 -
[195] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I am usually quite sceptical (at best) about additions to the game, but I have to say that I appreciated the change of mindset that made CCP Fozzie write:
These Mobile Structures are all personally owned
Unlike Starbases, these Mobile Structures belong to individual pilots, not to corporations ...
This means that even CCP might finally begin to understand that 2003 is over, that modern players don't come with many hours a day to play the nice but demanding "community game".
It's hard to belong to a relevant corporation when one can play 30 minutes a day at random hours.
Now, FW, seen as a "casual way to PvP" begun to fix this issue but we still had the non PvP structure requirements that demanded the players to either be in a good enough corp or forget leaving hi sec. I have lived the low sec lone wolf style and even WH lone wolf but I felt it to be not really fun. Imagine having a pirate corp attacking my low sec POS, who's going to come help me at say Aussie time zone? Being at least able to setup nimble, flexible stuff at my own times and at my own responsibility without having to resort to others might show as a step back from the "forced community, be in a blobby null sec corp" EvE mantra but I and others will definitely enjoy it.
I agree, I'm loving the "1-man mini POS" feel. Hopefully this will mark the beginning of more "even single players can do big nullsec corp-like stuff, just less efficiently. Types of ideas."
In a completely unrelated matter, can we get a captain's quarters for these please? |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1876
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 14:09:00 -
[196] - Quote
Scuzzy Logic wrote:I agree, I'm loving the "1-man mini POS" feel. Hopefully this will mark the beginning of more "even single players can do big nullsec corp-like stuff, just less efficiently. Types of ideas." On the other hand, I would love this development even more if it also came with more options for alliances to improve their space for the good of everyone living there. |
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 07:13:00 -
[197] - Quote
I'd like to ask if the rumor is true. That the mobile tractor is a signal CCP is ready to return to the dominance of BS jetcan mining. That CCP is ready to return to its original concept of a 100% PVP game with economic factors forcing most player activity into nullsec or wh. And that the era of special non-combat ships like mining barges as practical ships is over except in deepest sovereign terrorities under heavy guard.
That soon the only legimate player corp activities in hi sec will be enforcing Empire sovereignty as part of faction militia -- mission vs NPC rats or faction bountied players and player corps. That Empire NPC corps finally exert their faction sovereignty and have CONCORD flag any miner that is not part of correct NPC corp with criminal bounty for mining faction owned roids and ice -- cumulative bounties of 10% of what is mined. Similar for missioning and exploriing Empire resource sites. Rookie NPC corp taxing at 35% and player holding corps taxing at 50-60% for mining faction roids and ice. That CONCORD will be dissovled.
Please Please Please tell me its time to cry Havoc and loose the dogs of unending PVP war. No one should play who does not have a wardec state wherever they go ....except sovereignty conquered player territory. |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8400
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 14:26:00 -
[198] - Quote
Udonor wrote:I'd like to ask if the rumor is true. That the mobile tractor is a signal CCP is ready to return to the dominance of BS jetcan mining. That CCP is ready to return to its original concept of a 100% PVP game with economic factors forcing most player activity into nullsec or wh. And that the era of special non-combat ships like mining barges as practical ships is over except in deepest sovereign terrorities under heavy guard.
That soon the only legimate player corp activities in hi sec will be enforcing Empire sovereignty as part of faction militia -- mission vs NPC rats or faction bountied players and player corps. That Empire NPC corps finally exert their faction sovereignty and have CONCORD flag any miner that is not part of correct NPC corp with criminal bounty for mining faction owned roids and ice -- cumulative bounties of 10% of what is mined. Similar for missioning and exploriing Empire resource sites. Rookie NPC corp taxing at 35% and player holding corps taxing at 50-60% for mining faction roids and ice. That CONCORD will be dissovled.
Please Please Please tell me its time to cry Havoc and loose the dogs of unending PVP war. No one should play who does not have a wardec state wherever they go ....except sovereignty conquered player territory.
What is this I don't even...... Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
Circumstantial Evidence
90
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 21:57:00 -
[199] - Quote
For want of a nail the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the war was lost.
If new kinds of nails or a mobile tractor unit is invented... this... might... lead the four empires to declare war on each other, and drag all players in corresponding NPC corps into a massive conflagration.
The end is nigh! Repent! Repent! |
Edward Olmops
Sirius Fleet
107
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 10:59:00 -
[200] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Udonor wrote:I'd like to ask if the rumor is true. That the mobile tractor is a signal CCP is ready to return to the dominance of BS jetcan mining. That CCP is ready to return to its original concept of a 100% PVP game with economic factors forcing most player activity into nullsec or wh. And that the era of special non-combat ships like mining barges as practical ships is over except in deepest sovereign terrorities under heavy guard.
That soon the only legimate player corp activities in hi sec will be enforcing Empire sovereignty as part of faction militia -- mission vs NPC rats or faction bountied players and player corps. That Empire NPC corps finally exert their faction sovereignty and have CONCORD flag any miner that is not part of correct NPC corp with criminal bounty for mining faction owned roids and ice -- cumulative bounties of 10% of what is mined. Similar for missioning and exploriing Empire resource sites. Rookie NPC corp taxing at 35% and player holding corps taxing at 50-60% for mining faction roids and ice. That CONCORD will be dissovled.
Please Please Please tell me its time to cry Havoc and loose the dogs of unending PVP war. No one should play who does not have a wardec state wherever they go ....except sovereignty conquered player territory. What is this I don't even......
Nevermind. I am pretty sure that weed is illegal in Highsec. |
|
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
326
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 13:07:00 -
[201] - Quote
Quote:It's worth noting that this activation time is affected by time dilation, so the structures do not become more powerful in larger fleet fights than they are in other situations.
Is the reinforcement timer on mobile depots affected by tidi? |
|
CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
8429
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 15:34:00 -
[202] - Quote
xttz wrote:Quote:It's worth noting that this activation time is affected by time dilation, so the structures do not become more powerful in larger fleet fights than they are in other situations. Is the reinforcement timer on mobile depots affected by tidi?
No it is not. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
|
Zorth Athall
Knights of the Posing Meat The Obsidian Front
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 19:58:00 -
[203] - Quote
Umm, it would appear that rats DO shoot MTU's, I thought this wasn't supposed to happen? |
Captain Ravenblade
Almighty Tax Haven
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 21:25:00 -
[204] - Quote
Zorth Athall wrote:Umm, it would appear that rats DO shoot MTU's, I thought this wasn't supposed to happen?
I don't know about rats, but I was running a mission against the NPC Caldari Navy, and now I'm weeping over my pale shadow of a MTU. I can only imagine the gazillions of isks in tags that I just lost. |
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
44
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 11:20:00 -
[205] - Quote
Mobile Depot platform is EXCELLENT for attacks on Corps as INSIDE MAN.
Corps cannot kick you unless you dock.
Now you never have to dock. Mobile depot makes storing and using third party supply made even more convenient. With mobile depot you don't have to dock because you are out of ammo or need to reconfigure to attack a different type of ship.
The only way a corp can kick you is to pod you. Which means they are desparate and easy to lead into ambushes where you have toons of third party reps.
Basically you can force most small corps to disband. Medium corps if you fake being a good member for a couple of weeks and then vouch for a couple of helpers to become members.
Why? Well not only bunches and bunches of easy kills in high sec without CONCORD. But if you like ISK you can usually squeeze a lot of ransome out of a corp that doesn't want to disband -- often a PLEX worth per active member over a year old. But only about 1/4 that if their members are less active or more noob.
But even corps willing to disband and form up a new corp will usually pay a few billion to avoid tedious and dangerous process of redeploying POS and moving corp offices. My rule of thumb is 1B for each large POS and 1/2 B for each medium POS or well established corp office. If they have lots of junk in Corp Ofice that you were unable to steal some quiet night before the PVP kill campaign started...I'd raise that to 1-2B per office since you can shoot down their efforts to move stuff to new offices.
With Mobile Depots its actually worth logging out alt for a week or two until they get lulled into complaisently starting up normal os again -- if you are more into kills than ransome.
|
Cismet
Tellcomtec Gold
4
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 17:44:00 -
[206] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Milton Middleson wrote:What horrible abuse is going to result from the depot? It's next to impossible to remove. That's bad in and of itself. The kind of tactics that will develop that centres on this characteristic is largely unknown, I'll grant you, but they'll certainly share that one bad characteristic themselves, which is bad too. It's not so much the litter GÇö that'll solve itself with its decay period GÇö but rather the fact that it allows for character littering as well to a vastly higher extent than before. The depots will get rid of themselves; getting rid of the people suddenly becomes a whole lot harder.
So your entire argument revolves around them being abusable but you also state that the abuse is unknown? Congratulations on a circular argument. Your next sentence is no better, they all share that one bad characteristic of being abusable when the abuse is unknown? If there isn't a known way to abuse then by definition they aren't abusable. Hence CCP's wait and see approach. If you provide a solid mechanism for abuse then perhaps your idea would be taken seriously by developers.
Removing the people? If you want to remove the people then kill them. You argument makes no sense. There's nothing to stop you killing them in null (which seems the crux of your argument). They either won't come back as there's nothing worth coming back for in their can as you'll likely kill them again or if there is something worth coming back for you just keep killing them. I'm not sure I see your problem?
That said I do think 2 days reinforced is a bit much and should be halved. Noone with any sense is going to leave anything of real value sitting out in space surely??? ..... hehe |
Rekkr Nordgard
The Ardency of Faith
201
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 18:00:00 -
[207] - Quote
Love all the new junk floating around trade hubs ticking down their reinforcement timers. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
389
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 15:10:00 -
[208] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:xttz wrote:Quote:It's worth noting that this activation time is affected by time dilation, so the structures do not become more powerful in larger fleet fights than they are in other situations. Is the reinforcement timer on mobile depots affected by tidi? No it is not.
ahh what omnipotent beings give with one hand, they take away with another! :P |
Ned Black
Driders
68
|
Posted - 2013.11.23 12:46:00 -
[209] - Quote
Please make the mobile tractor unit grab wreaks in reverse order. Furthest ones first |
Synate
Sleeping Hope
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 00:38:00 -
[210] - Quote
Ned Black wrote:Please make the mobile tractor unit grab wreaks in reverse order. Furthest ones first
This +1000 |
|
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
1013
|
Posted - 2013.11.25 14:17:00 -
[211] - Quote
So...last night...I dropped my MD refitted, finished the mission and completed. Looked in my cargo hold for my MD and to my I'd forgotten to pick it back up! LMAO for about 3 minutes (it's OK to laugh too). Gathered my senses, thought to myself "You idiot!", jumped to get my Cheetah and scanned two systems to find that little bugger.
What would be nice for this situations would be to show these Mobile Structures such as Mobile Depots and Mobile Tractor Units on the F10 Star Map under the Filer of My Assets in Space. Secure Anchored Cargo Containers used to (I say used to as it's been a while) show up with this filter.
#1: This wouldn't stop the idiotic from leaving them behind without a bookmark #2: This would still require you to scan them out if you didn't have a bookmark #3: This would only help to narrow your search down to a system and some systems can be >220AU's wide so still some effort required. #4: This would help you to see where you have Mobile Structures deployed on a map rather than setting destination to each bookmark of an MD\MTU then viewing the map.
I for one would appreciate this falling in with Secure Anchored Cargo Containers just for the next time I decide to leave home and realise I've been dumb and want to go back or left my MTU in the wilderness of space.
/No MD's\MTU's were lost or abused during the making of this post Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Harkus
Primum non Nocere
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 07:47:00 -
[212] - Quote
Changing the Mobile Tractor unit so that they start from the furthest wreck might solve an issue that I just encountered....
Since I was killing rats a lot faster than one MTU could tractor, I decided to deploy 2 units 5km from each other. They both worked great on the wrecks of the first group of rats I killed but when I killed the second group of rats, I noticed that they weren't tractoring the new wrecks but instead juggling the wrecks from the first group between each other. |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
1013
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 08:05:00 -
[213] - Quote
Harkus wrote:Changing the Mobile Tractor unit so that they start from the furthest wreck might solve an issue that I just encountered.... Since I was killing rats a lot faster than one MTU could tractor, I decided to deploy 2 units 5km from each other. They both worked great on the wrecks of the first group of rats I killed but when I killed the second group of rats, I noticed that they weren't tractoring the new wrecks but instead juggling the wrecks from the first group between each other.
I've posted the same suggestion in this thread: Mobile Tractor Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
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CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
1532
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Posted - 2013.11.26 14:36:00 -
[214] - Quote
Just a quick post to acknowledge the feedback regarding the closest/furthest tractor beam behavior. I can't commit that anything will change, but it is being looked it. "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
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Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
810
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:00:00 -
[215] - Quote
Harkus wrote:Changing the Mobile Tractor unit so that they start from the furthest wreck might solve an issue that I just encountered.... Since I was killing rats a lot faster than one MTU could tractor, I decided to deploy 2 units 5km from each other. They both worked great on the wrecks of the first group of rats I killed but when I killed the second group of rats, I noticed that they weren't tractoring the new wrecks but instead juggling the wrecks from the first group between each other.
That is hilarious! new sport in eve... wreck juggling! Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2299
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:36:00 -
[216] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:Just a quick post to acknowledge the feedback regarding the closest/furthest tractor beam behavior. I can't commit that anything will change, but it is being looked at. You could also make it so a mobile tractor will not tractor any wreck that is close to a mobile tractor. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
1014
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:49:00 -
[217] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:Just a quick post to acknowledge the feedback regarding the closest/furthest tractor beam behavior. I can't commit that anything will change, but it is being looked at.
I, for one, appreciate that it is in fact being looked at at the very least and for the post. Just makes me feel I'm not typing for the hell of it and gives me a little warm fuzzy feeling. A +1 for you CCP Masterplan. Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Daemetos StarGazer
Shadow of the Forsaken
0
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Posted - 2013.11.29 06:23:00 -
[218] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:CCP Masterplan wrote:Just a quick post to acknowledge the feedback regarding the closest/furthest tractor beam behavior. I can't commit that anything will change, but it is being looked at. I, for one, appreciate that it is in fact being looked at at the very least and for the post. Just makes me feel I'm not typing for the hell of it and gives me a little warm fuzzy feeling. A +1 for you CCP Masterplan.
Amen! ran into the juggling issue tonight too...
quite frustrating when your Noctis has maxed skills/range of 96k and there are wrecks over that and the MTU grabs wrecks that you can easily grab already. |
Anize Oramara
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
79
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Posted - 2013.11.29 13:49:00 -
[219] - Quote
alternative to this would be to have a switch to switch from close to far targeting like drpnes have for passove and aggressive. |
Dirk Massive
D.O.O.M.
5
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Posted - 2013.12.11 11:52:00 -
[220] - Quote
For what it's worth I just love these new Mobile Tractor units!
I warp into a mission room, make sure I'm within 100km from the furthest rat. Drop the thing in space, and let the carnage begin. By the time I'm done, and went back to the base to get my salvaging ship, and returned the wrecks are in a nice tidy pile in space, and the unit is full of the rat droppings. Couldn't be easier...
well...... unless next you come out with a mobile salvaging unit. |
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Lucy Riraille
Aliastra Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2013.12.15 11:45:00 -
[221] - Quote
Well, I'm quite ambiguous when it comes to the new Mobile tractor Units. Yes, they are quite useful. A missionrunner now can quickly deploy such an item and forget about the looting. Which is a good thing for the missionrunner, but a bad thing for EVE!
I highly support Sophia Wolf and her thoughts on this subject : linkylink
First I was disappointed that someone could attack your MTU and get only a suspect flag, no CONCORD intervention and it generated a Killmail and loot.... No way... On the other hand, MTU's really facilitate getting more isk out of missionrunning wiht no extra time or effort. As I have no 0.0 experience wht MTU'S in huge PVE hubs, I see the danger of the Noctis becoming obsolete. Dual boxing with a PVE Ship and a Noctis was kinda fun, but u nedded 2 accounts to do it, or frineds from your corp.... Since there is no reason to join a player Corp in Hisec whatsoever, ppl tend to have loot chars at their ready. Still it wasn't an afk generated income.
Now, as I see it, it is well thought of CCP to have the MTU's made easily attackable and lootable. There shouldn't be a riskless ISK printing machine. Every ISK gained should need atleast a minimal amount of action by the player.
So, I like the idea of MTU's being the new ninja lotters' targets. I am planning to look into MTU warfare as a means of preventing loot value drops to become hurtful... |
Malseir Dabian
Environmental Protection Agency.
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.28 23:00:00 -
[222] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Hello Capsuleers! CCP Fozzie is here to share more Rubicon goodness with you, and talk to you about the mobile structures that are coming with EVE Online: Rubicon on November 19th. Check out his latest Dev Blog here, for more details regarding stuff you'll be able to put in space that does fantastic stuff for you, when Rubicon arrives next Tuesday!
On the mobile depot,
The name "Depot" Screams Industry, yet it is anything but with a measly 4k Hold.... I will never find a use for this item, though if it had a 100k m3 Ore bay, I'd buy 100 of them. As there are many systems too dangerous to put a pos in which have no stations. Making mining in them... laborious at best and pointless at worst.
I was really hoping this item would fix that issue, It seems unfortunately I was wrong.
That being said,
It's a good Idea, but I mean beyond using it as item storage (Not Industrial Storage) and for fitting in Nullsec/Highsec/Lowsec, it's a bit pointless to about 80% of the players of eve (as that's about the % of industry guys and girls),
You, the dev's are fully aware that when it comes to industry and ore storage 4000 m3 is well..... Pitiful and useless.
Are you planning on adding an industrial version of this with a massive Ore bay so the industrial guys can mine in systems without stations or POS's?
Thanks |
Kawaiian Breeze
State War Academy Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.01.08 20:40:00 -
[223] - Quote
Next deployable please: Mobile Drone Inhibitor. This deployable scrambles the bandwidth of any drones within a 350km radius rendering them unresponsive. Destroying the unit allows one to reconnect to lost drones.
OR something really fun would be to make the drones go Skynet and attack the nearest player |
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