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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.02.17 15:47:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Amarr knight
I am here asking for a solution. If you have better tactic then help me out. If you dont then suggest something that will fix it.
Don't fire at the same targets the turret ships are firing at, fire at something completely different. He'll either warp out (reducing enemy firepower for a little bit) or he'll eventually be called turret primary and go pop. You'd have to coordinate this a little bit better and apply it to whatever you have in the fleet, but you wouldn't "not be contributing" then.
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Miklas Laces
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Posted - 2006.02.17 15:51:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Amarr knight
Originally by: Miklas Laces
Very funny, it reminds me of when I am in my Deimos and all my corpmates spam missiles with their Cerberus. I can never get into range fast enough.
What are your suggestions to fix that ? 
I am talking about fleet battles and you are talking about getting your blasters into firing range. You went so off topic i dont even know what to say.
If you have problem with blasters make your own thread please dont hijack mine.
My point is obvious. And it has nothing to do with blasters.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.17 16:01:00 -
[33]
perhaps warp on top of your target insted of warping in at 100-150km with the rest of the gang. yes the chancwes of u dieing is greatly increased but if they dont make u pirmary fast ull down 2-3 ships by yourself very quickly.
another option is to take out t1 crusiers, javelin torps or percision cruise salvo pop t1 crusiers.
anotehr thing i sometimes do when i use a raven at range is to gang up with 3 other ravens with similar skills, and we salvo BS and usually they pop. ie a tackler lets us know which ship he has, all 4 torp ravens shoot 2 volleys [takes 9sec] and there is a 95% chance the BS pops in those two volleys.
last but not least, lock every single big target you can find, and send EM torps to each one, taking out their shiedls and thus when the turret boats get to that BS they dont need to go through the shields. can be usefull.
or the most honourable thing, use a scorp 
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
Woopie
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Posted - 2006.02.17 16:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Amarr knight
I am here asking for a solution. If you have better tactic then help me out. If you dont then suggest something that will fix it.
Don't fire at the same targets the turret ships are firing at, fire at something completely different. He'll either warp out (reducing enemy firepower for a little bit) or he'll eventually be called turret primary and go pop. You'd have to coordinate this a little bit better and apply it to whatever you have in the fleet, but you wouldn't "not be contributing" then.
QFT
It's not like there is some huge disvanage in this, curise missiles are already hitting for very impressive damage compared to the damage reduced long range turret ammo. With fleet ships having little or no tank, no or little damage is 'wasted' if this is done correctly.
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Yarek Balear
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Posted - 2006.02.17 16:12:00 -
[35]
Agreed - target their EW ships (if they aren't already primary) and see them warp off, meaning you have a huge impact on your fleet's effectiveness...
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jazzercise
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Posted - 2006.02.17 16:18:00 -
[36]
I have heard of fleet Ravens with 4x1400 and 4xcruise or whatever. Not been able to try it meself, but interesting concept if it could fit...
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Fogy
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Posted - 2006.02.17 16:26:00 -
[37]
yarr! "i got better use of my lov slots!" "shinra u suck.. u use stabs.." (so do i! :D)
anyways..
flames aside,
why not do it with balls... but you need big ones to do this though.. *caugh caugh*
when some one pop, warp to theyr can, and lett louse your torps on the primary..
you can also use the advanced disruptor..
with a "poosy" settup (5 stabs :P or 3 stabs, 2 BCU's) u got the ability to get out, and repeat when your starting to take damage..
and to make it even more funny... you could do this with some mates, as your probably not the only raven pilote in your fleet...? so.. 5 ravens at point blanke range, fiering torps at a big gang of snipers.. = DEATH TO POOSY'S @ 150km range.. YARR!!
but as i said... you need a set of huge balls.. to do this.
and youd actually put that shipp to good use in a fleet battle.
Cheers!
Fogy 
"From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity"
♥RUBRA♥
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Woopie
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Posted - 2006.02.17 16:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Fogy
when some one pop, warp to theyr can, and lett louse your torps on the primary..
you can also use the advanced disruptor..
with a "poosy" settup (5 stabs :P or 3 stabs, 2 BCU's) u got the ability to get out, and repeat when your starting to take damage..
and to make it even more funny... you could do this with some mates, as your probably not the only raven pilote in your fleet...? so.. 5 ravens at point blanke range, fiering torps at a big gang of snipers.. = DEATH TO POOSY'S @ 150km range.. YARR!!
OMG that's like hardcore, I like it 
Even if you died at least you would feel your balls grow (even if you didn't have any to begin with )
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.02.17 16:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: WizEye
If raven is useless, then what about dominix?
Caldari have scorp as their fleet ship, gallente have mega. Both have a ship that's not too great for fleet.
The dominix is actually not bad for fleet, esp with good drone skills. People are just too stupid.
Also, I can solve your problem: stop fighting at 150km, cause its ******* lame.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.17 16:39:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Zysco
Originally by: WizEye
If raven is useless, then what about dominix?
Caldari have scorp as their fleet ship, gallente have mega. Both have a ship that's not too great for fleet.
The dominix is actually not bad for fleet, esp with good drone skills. People are just too stupid.
Also, I can solve your problem: stop fighting at 150km, cause its ******* lame.
domi pretty much does suck in long range combat, i dont care if u think ur sentry drones are uber because they can hit at 80km. why would you use it over a sniperthron there are no advantages i can see : this is purely for the 100-150km combats.
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.02.17 16:55:00 -
[41]
"For the last couple of days I been into a lot of fleet battles. As a raven pilot i use t2 siege or cruise launchers with t2 ammo and ew in the med slot.
Now as usual we were warping at the enemy or they were warping at us at 100-150km distance. Priamary was called and we all fire. Target died before any of my missiles hit. Same case over and over again. My missiles hardly get the chance to hit the target.
(..)
I think i have a solution for this. If we increase the t2 missile speed and decrease the flight time, missile will have the same range as before but this way atleast they will get a chance to hit the target. It wont increase dmg. It wont increase range. It will be the same in close range fight. As currently missiles hit everything with the increaased speed that wont effect anything."
You are basically bringing knife to gun fight. The solution isn't to make gunpowder-propelled knife, am afraid, since it will still be slower than a real gun no matter what.
Missiles are superior weapon at close ranges where you can take advantage of tracking messing up the turret ships, so making them close in performance to guns at long ranges while maintaining this close range advantage would be a bad idea. If you absolutely insist on bringing Raven into long range fight and trying to compete with insta-damage ships, do what they do -- fit turrets.
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StoreSlem
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Posted - 2006.02.17 17:02:00 -
[42]
Fit precision cruises and kill small stuff. There, now you are useful for any fleet.
"If you were experiencing a lag, it was not server related." |
slip66
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Posted - 2006.02.17 17:07:00 -
[43]
Edited by: slip66 on 17/02/2006 17:08:51
If you have that many gunships in a gang, then it is better to have the ravens go after HAC and below IMO.
Originally by: StOrM ViPeR
Theres a skill called surgical strike in game I've learned that it actually stands for Band of Brothers |
Constantinee
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Posted - 2006.02.17 17:09:00 -
[44]
Knight ive fought in many battles with you mate and i know just what you are saying my missles never hit eitther because the t2 missles are slow as hell i went back to using t1 in a battle and they hit fine but less damage i agree with you the t2 missles need better flight time and speed btw knight check your skills for missle bombardment is it at 5 like mine cuz that may help
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.02.17 17:16:00 -
[45]
We just need a Trajectory Optimizer Unit (TOU).
+7.5% to missile speed.
+7% to missile flight time.
All gunboats have 2 mods, dmg and tracking. Missiles only one mod type. 
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
[white]Jenny Spitfire podded me [:oop |
Zysco
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Posted - 2006.02.17 17:23:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Zysco on 17/02/2006 17:24:46
Originally by: Gronsak
Originally by: Zysco
Originally by: WizEye
If raven is useless, then what about dominix?
Caldari have scorp as their fleet ship, gallente have mega. Both have a ship that's not too great for fleet.
The dominix is actually not bad for fleet, esp with good drone skills. People are just too stupid.
Also, I can solve your problem: stop fighting at 150km, cause its ******* lame.
domi pretty much does suck in long range combat, i dont care if u think ur sentry drones are uber because they can hit at 80km. why would you use it over a sniperthron there are no advantages i can see : this is purely for the 100-150km combats.
it costs 40 mil less and does like 1/7th less damage. You can fit 6 425 IIs with 2 rcu II leaving 5 lows for damage mods/whatever, and then you have 5 mids for sensor boosters/tracking comps/ew/whatever. So it does almost as much damage as a mega at... lets call it "ghey range (120+)", and much more damage at 80km or lower.
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.02.17 17:34:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Zysco on 17/02/2006 17:45:08
Domi w/ 6 425 IIs and 3 damage mods in quickfit using spike L:
307.998 dps
Mega w/ 7 425 IIs and 3 damage mods in quickfit using spike L:
359.331 dps
Domi using uranium L(79.4km optimal w/ current setup) and wardens:
1233.22 dps
Mega using Uranium L (about 80km optimal depending) and wardens:
993.257 dps
Mega does 50 more dps at 150km+
Domi does 240 more dps at ~80km.
Yeah the domi sucks ass.
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2006.02.17 21:43:00 -
[48]
Quite funny reading some of these replies.
Ravens in fleets are truly devestating if used correctly. Unfortunatly, all but the best FCs fail to take them into consideration and rely on the old fashion "primary X, secondary x". The solution is either join BE or fly a gunship.
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Beringe
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Posted - 2006.02.17 22:31:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sentani
this is why i want missiles to be able to change targets in mid-fligth
would solve this problem instantly...
missiles should ALLWAYS go the target you have as primary...
This would be a nice addition.
However, I think there are definite tactics to make Ravens useful in fleet. Some of them have even been posted in this thread.
-------------------------------------------
"Never underestimate the power of language."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
9854365
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Posted - 2006.02.17 22:31:00 -
[50]
Put rails on for fleet battles??? Seems simple to me.
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2006.02.18 00:16:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Drakhis
Edited by: Drakhis on 17/02/2006 14:05:41
and on the RoF decrease its because they travel faster get to their target quicker and with the same RoF cycles your going to be increasing your DPS exponentially with increased missile speeds reguardless of flight time its like Im gunna shoot this mieeile at you and it takes 10 seconds to get to you and does 10 damage
then on this hand its im gunna shoot this missile at you it also does 10dmg but only takes 5 seconds to get to you so with a rate of fire of like 10 seconds you do the math i dont know the math but thats saying now yoru getting hit for 10 damage every 15 seoconds rather than every 20 seconds
see an huge increase in overall DPS due to faster flight speed
You've really got this wrong. By your logic that the quicker a missile gets to you, the higher the DPS, missile DPS would vary by how close to a target you are, which is blatently untrue. You are adding RoF and flighttime - ie you said it would take 20 seconds for a missile to reach, and in the case of faster flight time, 15.
This is utter rubbish - the missiles are in space DURING the interval between volleys, your launchers do not wait for the last missiles to impact before firing another volley. You are still launching say 10 damage every 10 seconds, giving an overall 1 damage per second, no matter whether the missile track your target for an hour before hitting or hit him 0.5 seconds after leaving the launcher.
The ONLY thing flight time/velocity affects is how long before you are doing this steady, constant DPS. In this example, increasing velocity and decreasing flight time just shortens the interval before the missile boat has worked up to its DPS - as there is a normal lag before the first volley hits, and from then on the missile ship is doing its steady DPS until the target dies or warps.
Just to venture back on topic for a second, I think reducing the missile delay just makes them closer to being turrets, which is more or less what the OP wants to make Ravens good in massed fleet battles at range. I say, why bother? Variation is good, the RAven isn't a long-range fleet ship.
---:::---
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LVirus
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Posted - 2006.02.18 02:28:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Shin Ra
Quite funny reading some of these replies.
Ravens in fleets are truly devestating if used correctly. Unfortunatly, all but the best FCs fail to take them into consideration and rely on the old fashion "primary X, secondary x". The solution is either join BE or fly a gunship.
be is a noob cprp and i dont fucing acare avout your whine. you die and i win,
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LVirus
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Posted - 2006.02.18 02:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Shin Ra
Quite funny reading some of these replies.
Ravens in fleets are truly devestating if used correctly. Unfortunatly, all but the best FCs fail to take them into consideration and rely on the old fashion "primary X, secondary x". The solution is either join BE or fly a gunship.
fit some more wcs you mnoob
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Lorth
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Posted - 2006.02.18 05:15:00 -
[54]
Well, the raven isn't very good at fleets. Well I guess thats not entirely true. The nice amount fo mids means that you do make a decent ewar platform, but not as good as the scorp does.
But as for doing damage, well your kinnda stuck. You could try the warp in close thing, but that will most likely end with you in a pod. And at long range your left with the fact that the target may very well be dead before your missiles hit. And as you said, firering at the secondary target leaves you with the problem of people warping before they become primary for the rest of the fleet.
So your solutions are, either go for the support, a job that can still be done better by a turret ship (save for close tacklers.) Or fly a scorp and start jamming people, not good options I know but thats relistically what your left with. Or train a gun boat, try the tempest because of its alpha strikes, if your training specifically for fleets.
As a note, shin ra's advice is based mostly on flying 'fleets' which are composed of 5-10 people tops. In which case the raven does ok, since the target almost always lives long enough for the missile to hit. In groups larger (ie and actuall fleet) your still in trouble.
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Vishnej
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Posted - 2006.02.18 08:52:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Vishnej on 18/02/2006 08:53:46
Properly used, a Raven should be in the shortrange damage dealing portion of a fleet, along with the non-Caldari HACs.
As to your original post - I think you're being a bit of a killmail *****. Yes, you're useless hitting primary since when your missiles hit the enemy's dead. Yes, the secondary warps out when hit.
But what about this? When they warp out, they're out of the battle. Target six ships and fire one cruise missile at each. That's six ships out of the battle, if they follow suit. If they don't, you're doing damage to those six.
While I am of the opinion that there should be a +25% missile velocity module, I don't see it happening anytime soon, and the RMR Raven is already powerful enough in PvP.
Industry Demands |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.02.18 10:11:00 -
[56]
get a tackler to work with... u can pop bs fast enough and if he is scrambled he wont warp(stiletto 4tw here).
Anyway, stop fighting at 150km and go a bit closer... It is far more interesting.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Everbane
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Posted - 2006.02.18 11:15:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Amarr knight
For the last couple of days I been into a lot of fleet battles. As a raven pilot i use t2 siege or cruise launchers with t2 ammo and ew in the med slot.
Now as usual we were warping at the enemy or they were warping at us at 100-150km distance. Priamary was called and we all fire. Target died before any of my missiles hit. Same case over and over again. My missiles hardly get the chance to hit the target.
So since these range is a problem i thought if i had a faster lock then my gang members (most turret bs have 2-3 sensor booster) i can launch my missiles before them and it might have chance to catch. But again no luck. Hit 1 or 2 targets and missed for the rest of them.
Then i tried another thing. Since the primary always dies before i hit why not go for the secodary target. Problem is in fleet battle as soon as someone gets hit they think they have been called primary and they warp out. So whenever i shoot secondary, he warps off before my gang members starts shooting at him.
That made me think about my usefulness in the fleet. Most of the killmails from fleet battles i show up as "weapon used cruise missile launcher II or siege missile launcher II". That means none of my missiles hit him. I dont wanna be a killmail ***** and just be happy that i am on it. I can be a jammer but even with good skill, Raven doesnt have a EW bonus so at 100+km its nearly impossible to jam anything. So for me its the same not to show up in the battle.
I think i have a solution for this. If we increase the t2 missile speed and decrease the flight time, missile will have the same range as before but this way atleast they will get a chance to hit the target. It wont increase dmg. It wont increase range. It will be the same in close range fight. As currently missiles hit everything with the increaased speed that wont effect anything.
Tell me what you think. No need to flame me. If you think its a bad idea and it will have bad consequence, show me your point i will understand.
If your fleet commander is calling a single primary which dies so quick he wasteing yours and others fire power which could be better spent killing a second ship. You and your Raven buddies should be shooting something else.
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MrRetard
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Posted - 2006.02.18 11:19:00 -
[58]
Trained for cruise launcher and siege launcher II's which would have taken 2 months or so and didnt read the speed of missiles nor realised it takes time for them to hit when the target is 100KM.
Ignorance.
Use scorpian.
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LUKKAT
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Posted - 2006.02.18 11:29:00 -
[59]
as has been said use a scorp
You already have the ship / electronics skills to fly a scorp and maintain cap
S put 500k or less in training tme into electronics and this will let you use racials to 150k
every scorp on your side means at least 2 enemy bs not firing at your team mate who has been called primary.
and do you have to kill them to be the victors? kill a few make em run its who's owns the field/system afterwards.
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2006.02.18 12:32:00 -
[60]
Originally by: LVirus
Originally by: Shin Ra
Quite funny reading some of these replies.
Ravens in fleets are truly devestating if used correctly. Unfortunatly, all but the best FCs fail to take them into consideration and rely on the old fashion "primary X, secondary x". The solution is either join BE or fly a gunship.
be is a noob cprp and i dont fucing acare avout your whine. you die and i win,
Wow, some quality words there. Did we kill you or something?
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