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Mallrat Extreme
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Posted - 2006.02.22 15:01:00 -
[1]
Capital Turrets (Dual Giga Pulse Laser, etc) are available in the Turrets and Bays section of the market. They fit in a Turret slot, require Large Race Turret 5, and they get the benefit of Sharpshooter, Motion Prediction, Controlled Bursts, etc.
Fighters are available in the Combat Drones section of the market. They fit in the drone bay, require Drone Interfacing 5 to use, but DO NOT get the benefits of Drone Interfacing, Heavy Drones, Drone Navigation, Drone Sharpshooting, Drone Durability, etc.
I would like to hear from other pilots if I am the only one who finds this rediculous. I value the opinion of everyone who has looked at this issue, and especially carrier pilots. I would also, naturally, love to hear CCP's logic behind this, though I am in no position to require their response to my sincere and humble thread.
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2006.02.22 15:21:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Mallrat Extreme
Capital Turrets (Dual Giga Pulse Laser, etc) are available in the Turrets and Bays section of the market. They fit in a Turret slot, require Large Race Turret 5, and they get the benefit of Sharpshooter, Motion Prediction, Controlled Bursts, etc.
Fighters are available in the Combat Drones section of the market. They fit in the drone bay, require Drone Interfacing 5 to use, but DO NOT get the benefits of Drone Interfacing, Heavy Drones, Drone Navigation, Drone Sharpshooting, Drone Durability, etc.
I would like to hear from other pilots if I am the only one who finds this rediculous. I value the opinion of everyone who has looked at this issue, and especially carrier pilots. I would also, naturally, love to hear CCP's logic behind this, though I am in no position to require their response to my sincere and humble thread.
i dont think it would be right to let them make use of the drone skilz, fighters are ust on each race's carrier.
if only the gallante carrier would use fighter drones i think it should make use of the drone skilz but thats not the case.
like nosferatu and sensor boosters, theyr not of particulari race like lasers, and hammerhads.
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2006.02.22 15:22:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Mallrat Extreme
Capital Turrets (Dual Giga Pulse Laser, etc) are available in the Turrets and Bays section of the market. They fit in a Turret slot, require Large Race Turret 5, and they get the benefit of Sharpshooter, Motion Prediction, Controlled Bursts, etc.
Fighters are available in the Combat Drones section of the market. They fit in the drone bay, require Drone Interfacing 5 to use, but DO NOT get the benefits of Drone Interfacing, Heavy Drones, Drone Navigation, Drone Sharpshooting, Drone Durability, etc.
I would like to hear from other pilots if I am the only one who finds this rediculous. I value the opinion of everyone who has looked at this issue, and especially carrier pilots. I would also, naturally, love to hear CCP's logic behind this, though I am in no position to require their response to my sincere and humble thread.
i dont think it would be right to let them make use of the drone skilz, fighters are ust on each race's carrier.
if only the gallante carrier would use fighter drones i think it should make use of the drone skilz but thats not the case.
like nosferatu and sensor boosters, theyr not of particulari race like lasers, and hammerhads.
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Montolio
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Posted - 2006.02.22 16:32:00 -
[4]
Fighters arn't drones. A drone is a small vessle with an AI, a fighter is a vessle with an actual pilot (like the x-wings from Staw wars, they're fighters). So they don't use the same technology. There's your logic.
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Max Teranous
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Posted - 2006.02.22 16:55:00 -
[5]
Or, that Capital turrets were balanced to take high general gunnery skills into account, and the fighters were balanced NOT take the drone skills into account.
Or in other words, drone interfacing could affect them if you halved the base damage they do, as it would work out exactly the same either way in the end anyway.
Max 
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2006.02.22 16:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Montolio
Edited by: Montolio on 22/02/2006 16:44:18
Fighters arn't drones. A drone is a small vessle with an AI, a fighter is a vessle with an actual pilot (like the x-wings from Star Wars, they're fighters). So they don't use the same technology. There's your logic.
Edit: Typo
i remember a story line with saying they bulded frigates by increasing the strenght of fighters
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Unuthiel
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:05:00 -
[7]
Since the history of the Gallente-Caldari war stated that drones were developed by the Gallente in response to superior Caldari 1 man fighters, it's a bit odd that the Gallente carrier has better fighter bonuses than the Caldari one.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:06:00 -
[8]
Carrier bonuses apply to both drones and fighters, are you sure the game considers them two diffrent things?
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:35:00 -
[9]
I will have to check my logs when i get to my home computer, but if the information I remember is correct, then I have to agree with the original poster in that the only things that affect fighter damage is the fighter skill and the carrier bonus.
from memory (which is not perfect), below is the calulation of how much damage an amarr drone did during testing on the live server.
A fighter wrecks for just over 1000 damage with fighter lvl 1 and carrier lvl 1 in a gllante carrier.
The actual damage was 1108.8 versus shields with an amarr fighter. the em was not tanked and the thermal was base resistance so thats 20% reduction of the thermal damage of the amarr drone.
that means the drone was had base 50 em and 20 thermal for a total of 70 damage.
1108.8 divide by 3 (wrecking = 3x full damage) gives 369.3
divide 369.3 by 70 (the base damage the drone did) to get a damage mod of 5.27.
Base damage mod is 4.0 so that is about a 32% increase in damage. that is 20% from fighter lvl 1 and 10% from carrier lvl 1.
4.0 * 1.2 (fighter skill) * 1.1 (carrier bonus) = 5.28
that pretty much matches the damage witnessed if i have the damage number and skill lvls correct. I was not the carrier pilot but was present for the test.
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David Sinclair
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:51:00 -
[10]
Could this have something to do with the whole "Assign fighters to other people" thing? I've been told a carrier can launch fighters, assign them to someone else, and that someone else can then warp off with the carrier's fighters and do their own thing... dealing with layers of skill bonuses on this may not be practical, depending on how drones/fighters are programmed...
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Benny Hill
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Posted - 2006.02.22 17:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Unuthiel
Since the history of the Gallente-Caldari war stated that drones were developed by the Gallente in response to superior Caldari 1 man fighters, it's a bit odd that the Gallente carrier has better fighter bonuses than the Caldari one.
CCP stopped pursuing race storylines. And that story was written wel before CCP came up with these ideas. CCP says there will be faction wars in Kali. But then again, CCP hasn't even finished up the storyline for the Amarr emperor.
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Unuthiel
Since the history of the Gallente-Caldari war stated that drones were developed by the Gallente in response to superior Caldari 1 man fighters, it's a bit odd that the Gallente carrier has better fighter bonuses than the Caldari one.
Caldari has clearly abandoned fighters in their current war doctrine, favoring ships with good reach and strong electronics and less emphasis on mobility, where as Gallente has focused research on drones which are fast and mobile vessels, which has helped their development of fighter technology. Well, at least the Caldari has abandoned the fighter doctrine, that's for sure.
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:04:00 -
[13]
the test that i witnessed was in 0.4 system and a carrier pilot can not assign fighters to another gang member in 0.4 space so the damage was because the carrier pilot specifically ordered the fighters to attack.
The carrier pilot recieved the error "You can only assign fighters to gang member in space with a security status less than 0.4" every time he tried to assign the fighters to a gang mate.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Unuthiel
Since the history of the Gallente-Caldari war stated that drones were developed by the Gallente in response to superior Caldari 1 man fighters, it's a bit odd that the Gallente carrier has better fighter bonuses than the Caldari one.
Yes it is, and alot of us don't like that. The suggestion the Caldari simply abandoned their fighter technology is pretty weak too.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve...
This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran  |
Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:20:00 -
[15]
Check the patch notes people.
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Friends Forever |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:32:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 22/02/2006 18:33:07
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Check the patch notes people.
for what exactly?
and I fully agree with the sentiments of the people listed above - Gallente are the Drone Masters (which is why the Moros gets the insane drone bonuses), while the backstory clearly states Fighters belong to caldari, therefor the caldari carriers should get the drone bonuses, not gallente.
FIGHTERS ARE NOT DRONES.
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St Dragon
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Posted - 2006.02.22 18:51:00 -
[17]
i agree
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"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2006.02.22 19:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Check the patch notes people.
um...i looked at the last 4 patch notes (this includes the patch notes for the new patch that is yet to be released to back as far as the red moon rising patch that introduced the fighters) and there is nothing in any of them that says x skill does or does not affect fighters.
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Unuthiel
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Posted - 2006.02.22 19:21:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Well, at least the Caldari has abandoned the fighter doctrine, that's for sure.
How so? Pretty hard to "abandon" something that was just added to the game (as opposed to heaving been around for a while in the backstory).
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Commander Nikolas
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Posted - 2006.02.22 21:09:00 -
[20]
... Caldari whining they are underpowered again?
You want to talk about "back story" and what is "logical" it would make sense to me that torps should do splash damage... and you should get concorded if you hit something by mistake well you are doing your agent missions. :)
To original poster: CCP probabaly just factored in the DPS increase in the base damage of the fighters rather then layering it (since those skills are requiered at lvl 5 to use fighters, just like AFs and their resists)
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.02.22 21:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
... Caldari whining they are underpowered again?
You want to talk about "back story" and what is "logical" it would make sense to me that torps should do splash damage... and you should get concorded if you hit something by mistake well you are doing your agent missions. :)
To original poster: CCP probabaly just factored in the DPS increase in the base damage of the fighters rather then layering it (since those skills are requiered at lvl 5 to use fighters, just like AFs and their resists)
might be that
...or can you imagine IF fighters gain all those bonuses from the skills trained?
Overpowered anyone?
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Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2006.02.23 01:05:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 23/02/2006 01:06:15
Ahhh where does it say fighters have a pilot?!?!?!?
From what I read fighters ARE AI controlled ships (drones), not crewed.
Anyone able to post any ingame description that states fighters ARE NOT DRONES???
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Demangel
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Posted - 2006.02.23 01:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Novo DuPont
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 23/02/2006 01:06:15
Ahhh where does it say fighters have a pilot?!?!?!?
From what I read fighters ARE AI controlled ships (drones), not crewed.
Anyone able to post any ingame description that states fighters ARE NOT DRONES???
No need even copy paste something from the game, just look in the item database itself, It says clear as day on the entry link to fighters:
fighters: Single-pilot combat vessels, deployable from carriers and motherships.
Plus if you look at the pictures of them or get a chance to see them in game, they clearly have a*****pit, and IIRC a pilot in the seat... Now unless that guy is a droid or something, fighters ARE NOT DRONES.
Happy? :)
Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you
Demangel > Dude... I would call..
Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet.
Galaxion > Just a bit.
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.02.23 01:30:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Foulis on 23/02/2006 01:32:25
Originally by: Novo DuPont
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 23/02/2006 01:06:15
Ahhh where does it say fighters have a pilot?!?!?!?
From what I read fighters ARE AI controlled ships (drones), not crewed.
Anyone able to post any ingame description that states fighters ARE NOT DRONES???
Zoom in on a fighter ingame, I believe you can see the pilot in the co-ckpit(stupid censor). At least on the ammar one.
----
I like pie.
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.02.23 01:31:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Foulis on 23/02/2006 01:31:58
/*doublepost*/
----
I like pie.
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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Demangel
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Posted - 2006.02.23 01:39:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Foulis
Edited by: Foulis on 23/02/2006 01:32:25
Originally by: Novo DuPont
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 23/02/2006 01:06:15
Ahhh where does it say fighters have a pilot?!?!?!?
From what I read fighters ARE AI controlled ships (drones), not crewed.
Anyone able to post any ingame description that states fighters ARE NOT DRONES???
Zoom in on a fighter ingame, I believe you can see the pilot in the co-ckpit(stupid censor). At least on the ammar one.
Ok to back this upa bit more: found one of the mini fighter, gotta see the full size to make it out. It's not the best pic of it, but I think unless you really don't wanna see a pilot, it's easy to see:
Piccy
Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you
Demangel > Dude... I would call..
Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet.
Galaxion > Just a bit.
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Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.02.23 04:50:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Unuthiel
Since the history of the Gallente-Caldari war stated that drones were developed by the Gallente in response to superior Caldari 1 man fighters, it's a bit odd that the Gallente carrier has better fighter bonuses than the Caldari one.
Yes it is, and alot of us don't like that. The suggestion the Caldari simply abandoned their fighter technology is pretty weak too.
Yeah thats why Caldari Navy uses battleships mostly... not fighters. Caldari aren't weak underdogs using homemade fighters anymore, they're behemoths that use a superior force doctrine, definitely not one of speed and maneuverability. If anyone still uses a doctrine like that it is the minmatar. Basically every race has a claim to have the best carrier except the amarr, and they suck tbfh.
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Ceilidh
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Posted - 2006.02.23 05:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tasty Burger
Yeah thats why Caldari Navy uses battleships mostly... not fighters. Caldari aren't weak underdogs using homemade fighters anymore, they're behemoths that use a superior force doctrine, definitely not one of speed and maneuverability. If anyone still uses a doctrine like that it is the minmatar. Basically every race has a claim to have the best carrier except the amarr, and they suck tbfh.
This is my basic understanding of the "better fighters" the caldari used. They had the better fighters in the Gal/Cal war because they were the only ones with fighters at first. When the Gal's finally developed drones, the Cal's moved onto frigs and the rest is history.
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-Ceilidh (KAY-lee) |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.02.23 21:31:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Novo DuPont
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 23/02/2006 01:06:15
Ahhh where does it say fighters have a pilot?!?!?!?
From what I read fighters ARE AI controlled ships (drones), not crewed.
Anyone able to post any ingame description that states fighters ARE NOT DRONES???
From what I read, you've never read any info on Fighters?
You can even see the pilot sitting in them when they are flying in space iirc.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve...
This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.23 21:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
... Caldari whining they are underpowered again?
You want to talk about "back story" and what is "logical" it would make sense to me that torps should do splash damage... and you should get concorded if you hit something by mistake well you are doing your agent missions. :)
please get a clue. missiles used to do splash damage but it was removed as it caused too much lag.
Originally by: Zzazzt
Originally by: thoth foc
PA doesnt stand for anything..
Punchbag Alliance...
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