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Dangirdas Bachir
Monstrosity Inc
516
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Posted - 2013.11.25 12:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nicole Graves wrote:Dangirdas Bachir wrote:Oh please, just because of one incident you're now going to judge all Gallente Federation? What, you want the whole list? There are character limits to these posts you know! Please give me the list within the character limit. Just please I want to see it. EVE EVE STARGALACTIC CITY B I T C H |
Naomi Tichim
Lost Star Expeditions
38
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Posted - 2013.11.25 13:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
I didn't actually hear about Malkalen until quite some time after the fact, but I personally find the idea that Noir was acting on behalf of the Gallente government absurd. Most likely, Noir was an agent for some other power. Tibus Heth is the first one that comes to mind (aside from sending tensions through the roof, it also took Garuishi out of the way), but there are any number of factions which would benefit from seeing the Caldari and Gallente at war.
It's also possible that Noir was acting alone. If so, he may have just been crazy. But one rather plausible idea I heard is that Noir had a secret clone hidden away somewhere. Far from being a tool, he may have been the mastermind.
Eh. The fact is that this war has cost far too many lives. |
James Syagrius
The Philalethes Society
616
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Posted - 2013.11.26 00:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Natalcya Katla wrote:Aebe Amraen wrote:Remember Malkalen! I remember Malkalen. I remember the twisted metal, the smoke, the wounded as they were dragged out of the wreckage to be evacuated onboard the hastily assembled fleet piloted by capsuleers from every corner of New Eden. I remember Stitcher and others like him, equal parts stupid and brave as they left their capsules to personally lead search parties into the ruined station. I remember the horror we all felt as we realized the sheer magnitude of the disaster. I remember the sharp spikes of hope and elation each time a new pocket of survivors, or even just a single one, was found. Most of all, I remember the unity. That single day of unified purpose. I remember a baby, a boy. Three, four weeks old. His parents had managed to stuff him in a safety case and power up the seals - literally the last thing they ever did. Their apartment had breached, vented - they died in each others' arms. They must have literally only just finished sealing the kid in when the Wandering Saint hit - frankly, given how little warning there was, they acted with commendable speed to even be able to save him. That kid's five years old now. Being raised in a corporate creche in Korama. He's a normal, happy, healthy boy: He doesn't grieve for the parents he never knew. Has a Sela Sentinels lunchbox. I did a lot that day. Technically broke the law by practicing surgery without a license, but I doubt any of my patients complained. I'm as angry as anybody else over Malkalen. But my determination is that it should never happen again. And the way we're going to do that is by understanding that whatever happened, it probably WASN'T the Federation's fault - they didn't stand to gain anything from it. All that can be achieved by continuing to antagonise them is to perpetuate the same festering anger that killed that boy's parents in the first place. I don't buy that Noir just "snapped" but I've gone over the arguments why I don't accept that explanation a great many times, and I offer no alternative explanation. I don't know if I will ever be privy to the secrets of that day - but wild speculation ahead of the facts can only serve to do harm by increasing the risk that it might, someday, happen again. I would go a very, very long way to never again have to carry a wailing infant's lifebox away from his mother's body. Sometimes we forget the price paid by those most helpless.
Thank you for reminding us that great tragedy's are experienced individually. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
http://syagrius-eve.blogspot.com/
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Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
1641
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Posted - 2013.11.26 00:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
Aebe Amraen wrote:Stitcher wrote:Ironic. If it's not a conspiracy theory about impersonation and inside jobs, it's a conspiracy theory about Jacus Roden profiting from the destruction.
Guess no matter what you do, there's always going to be a conspiracy. I don't think there can be any doubt that Jacus Roden profits from the increased demand for Roden Shipyards warships.
And there's no doubt that the megacorps such as Ishukone and Kaalakoita profit from the increase demand for their warships.
Quite frankly, we have enough of you blind and biased fanatics on the IGS as it is. Not only from the State but from all factions. With this attitude, don't expect to be taken seriously, even by your own countrymen. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
1641
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Posted - 2013.11.26 00:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
On the topic of Roden, he's the only President within my lifetime that made me doubt the Federation. That made me doubt our ideals. That made me doubt our goals for the future.
Is he as bad as Heth? No, but I fear that if put in a similar position, he would be even worse. The only thing holding Roden back is the Senate and the Supreme Court. If he can get their support or work around them, then we're going to have a major mess on our hands.
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Constantin Baracca
276
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Posted - 2013.11.26 03:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:On the topic of Roden, he's the only President within my lifetime that made me doubt the Federation. That made me doubt our ideals. That made me doubt our goals for the future.
Is he as bad as Heth? No, but I fear that if put in a similar position, he would be even worse. The only thing holding Roden back is the Senate and the Supreme Court. If he can get their support or work around them, then we're going to have a major mess on our hands.
I suppose it's true what they say about political power and the barrels of guns. What our four empires seem to have in common is that we seem to grant political power to the best armed of our options. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
-Matthew 16:26 |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
1643
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Posted - 2013.11.26 04:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
Constantin Baracca wrote:Fredfredbug4 wrote:On the topic of Roden, he's the only President within my lifetime that made me doubt the Federation. That made me doubt our ideals. That made me doubt our goals for the future.
Is he as bad as Heth? No, but I fear that if put in a similar position, he would be even worse. The only thing holding Roden back is the Senate and the Supreme Court. If he can get their support or work around them, then we're going to have a major mess on our hands.
I suppose it's true what they say about political power and the barrels of guns. What our four empires seem to have in common is that we seem to grant political power to the best armed of our options.
To be as fair to Roden as possible, he was elected during a time of war. We needed a military leader and we elected one. The problem is that instead of voting for someone who would win us the war, we got someone who would draw it out as long as he could. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Constantin Baracca
276
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Posted - 2013.11.26 04:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Constantin Baracca wrote:Fredfredbug4 wrote:On the topic of Roden, he's the only President within my lifetime that made me doubt the Federation. That made me doubt our ideals. That made me doubt our goals for the future.
Is he as bad as Heth? No, but I fear that if put in a similar position, he would be even worse. The only thing holding Roden back is the Senate and the Supreme Court. If he can get their support or work around them, then we're going to have a major mess on our hands.
I suppose it's true what they say about political power and the barrels of guns. What our four empires seem to have in common is that we seem to grant political power to the best armed of our options. To be as fair to Roden as possible, he was elected during a time of war. We needed a military leader and we elected one. The problem is that instead of voting for someone who would win us the war, we got someone who would draw it out as long as he could.
It is a bit of a self-fulfilling cycle. Military leaders, especially in democracies, don't have much incentive to win wars as much as fight them forever. After all, he was elected because a war was going on, not necessarily because he thought he could successfully negotiate between freighter unions and local governments over issues of warp-wake.
At the very least, if your people realize it, they do have the ability to get rid of him and elect in a new direction sooner rather than later. I suppose the question is if he can make your people more afraid of the cluster outside than disappointed with the amount of resources he dedicates to that pursuit. I think we might all seriously reconsider warfare among ourselves if we tally up the costs associated with fighting it.
It's hard to elect the sort of people who can wind down a war, though, especially since you need a pair of them on opposite sides to do it. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
-Matthew 16:26 |
Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
245
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Posted - 2013.11.26 06:09:00 -
[39] - Quote
What's all this reference to Roden as a "Military Leader?" Militant, perhaps... but Arms Manufacturing Tycoon has never been a rank in any branch of the Federated Union Armed Forces that I'm familiar with. Did I skip a few chapters of his biography or something?
Roden's agenda for coming to power was predicated upon protecting the rights of the Gallente Corporate class more than anything. Not something I particularly disagree with, nor would most Caldari disagree either were their own leaders to take similar action. Sure, Roden has vigorously prosecuted the War, but did we have any choice? Do we now? The Gallente have offered peace repeatedly. Even now the State Protectorate and its Capsuleer militiamen prosecute another major offensive. When will we hear their leaders offer peace? |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
2381
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Posted - 2013.11.26 06:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
I must have missed those constant offers of peace, Rinai. In fact the last offer of peace was proffered by Ishukone, as I remember, although sadly it didn't include the end of the CEWPA agreement.
I do remember your boss repudiating my attempt to broker a more civilised conduct to the war, though. |
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Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1049
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Posted - 2013.11.26 08:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:On the topic of Roden, he's the only President within my lifetime that made me doubt the Federation. That made me doubt our ideals. That made me doubt our goals for the future.
Actually, continued warfare under CEWPA might be said not to be in the interest of Kaalakiota, Wiyrkomi, and Lai Dai who remain the industrial and military-industrial backbone of the Caldari State so long as assets in Black Rise remain open to destruction and corporate citizens face persecution by Federal occupying forces under the orders of Generalissimo Roden and his right-hand man Blaque.
This is a war of defense of Caldari lands and people against the continued Imperialist aggression of the Federation that has no stake or interest in a reasonable resolution to the present conflict. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1639
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Posted - 2013.11.26 23:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:To be as fair to Roden as possible, he was elected during a time of war. We needed a military leader and we elected one. The problem is that instead of voting for someone who would win us the war, we got someone who would draw it out as long as he could.
It's almost as if he had major investments in the armaments industry or something, y'know?
Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
247
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Posted - 2013.11.27 02:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ayup. Unfortunate that your offer coincided with other State Protectorate forces mobilizing in Enaluri for a major offensive against FDU forces in Nennamalia.
Truly, I was thoroughly disappointed by the entire course of events. |
Constantin Baracca
281
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Posted - 2013.11.27 02:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
You know what they say, the best laid plans of mice and men are sponsored by Turketo Arms Ltd. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
-Matthew 16:26 |
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
36
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Posted - 2013.11.27 04:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
The past is important, not not more so than the present.
And presently, there are good reasons to hate the Federation.
I still remember my time as a baseline, serving on board a Navy Rokh. The rescue mission that we conducted within our own space, to free our own people, from a Gallentian detention facility. Some of whom were my old shipmates and friends. That day gave me a good number of reasons to hate the Federation. |
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