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Eve would be better without learning skills

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Android Mindslave	Posted - 2006.02.26 22:50:00 - [1] <slightly frustrated> I think that CCP should phase out learning skills. Give all characters +10 to each stat, and refund all sp invested in learning skills. They could do it in one big change, or just do it slowly over a month or so. Give it a RP reason, a scientist developed a method of expanding the human mind. It is a big discovery, like Dr. Salk and polio. Of course this is used to impart learning skills to the whole population, becuase everyone will tell you that it is a 100% fact that those are the most important skills bar none. No contest. I'm new to Eve, and frankly, this game would be much better without the reality of learning skills. I don't like other MMO games because they require 'grinding' based on what you 'need' to do instead of what you want to do. Except for learning skills, EVE is the antithesis of this dynamic in all regards. My charater is sitting in the Hanger in the starting station incubating. Yes, incubating. How silly is that. It is very discouraging to new players that any path that does not start with learning skills is automatically a less optimal path. All the other skills don't make any diffrence in the order that you learn them. I can pick up a little mining now, mine till I get board with it, then pick up combat skills, and then come back to mining later. You don't lose anything for switching. Except with learning skills. When you 'take a break' from learning skills, your actually hurting your character. Anyways. I've got about 5 to 6 days left before I get to advanced int 4. At least at that point I can take a break and train int/mem skills without guilt. One wonders how many people just got bored waiting for their learning skills and just quit.
Ender Fal	Posted - 2006.02.26 23:01:00 - [2] yeah, i understand where youre comin from, but that just wouldnt work. if you phased out learning skills, youd have to phase out skills period. then itd just be lame. it sucks, but go run the 1/10 complexes till you cant anymore. then mine a bit. then maybe run some missions, or go exploring. theres a lot to learn about the game, and this is the best time to do it.
Barak Torginn	Posted - 2006.02.26 23:11:00 - [3] I've made a point to train up my learning skills to advanced lvl3 for all except Charisma. Yeah, I watched my corpmates fly new ship types sooner than I could, but there are a number of them now that wish they trained them sooner. Once your learnings skills are trained, they are trained, you're done. And your progression will be much better because of it. Also, advanced attribute skills to lvl4 yields diminishing returns (see several threads on this topic in this forum). Just train them to lvl3.
Alexis DeTocqueville	Posted - 2006.02.26 23:20:00 - [4] You're working on Logic IV, of course it's taking forever. Boost all your advanced Learning Skills to Level III, with a high memory/intelligence the main hurdle is only the 5 days for each Level 5 first-tier Learning Skill. Beyond that, relax and go work on something else! You don't need that much of a boost to your attributes until the multiplier starts to have a serious effect anyways! Jesus.
Erla Maria	Posted - 2006.02.27 00:20:00 - [5] IMO, all the learning skills are a nice filter to all of the people you really don't want playing eve
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.02.27 00:22:00 - [6] Originally by: Erla Maria IMO, all the learning skills are a nice filter to all of the people you really don't want playing eve lol -------------------Sig----------------------- Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON
Android Mindslave	Posted - 2006.02.27 01:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Erla Maria IMO, all the learning skills are a nice filter to all of the people you really don't want playing eve Really? I'm new and all, but I would think the best filter to keep people out who you don't want playing eve is the fact that you can simply shoot at stupid people until their ship blows up, and when they respawn they are missing their ship and running back to where they died won't make it re-appear. But I guess that is just me.
Lil Muthatrucker	Posted - 2006.02.27 01:22:00 - [8] I understand the reason CCP put in the learning skills. Uber charecters are so far ahead (some with almost 60 mil skill points) that new people really cant catch up, learning skills are released to bridge this gap, by making their skills taking longer to have gotten to where they are. i think that CCP went about this wrong, they should have done something like every 3 months increasing all skills by 1 for all charecters, and any charecter being made after that having that bonus from the begining. that way, you dont have a 3 month (just guessing, dont know exact) session of incubating doing nothing. i've been playing since august of 2003, and have quit the game several times because i got bored of grinding these skills while being unable to actualy do what i want, so i'm only at 6 million skill points .... pretty pathetic for my level. maybe this idea wouldn't work, but it would make alot more sense then what is currently being used.
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2006.02.27 01:43:00 - [9] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 27/02/2006 01:44:45 Quote: i've been playing since august of 2003, and have quit the game several times because i got bored of grinding these skills while being unable to actualy do what i want, so i'm only at 6 million skill points .... pretty pathetic for my level. And what level is that exactly ?? Clearly you haven't really been playing EVE for anywhere near the majority of the time since August 2003 as there's no conceivable way, bar laziness/stupidity, for your SP total to be even remotely this miniscule .. MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
Galifardeua	Posted - 2006.02.27 01:55:00 - [10] Why are you training learing skills if you're not having fun? DON'T. Gaming, just like life, it's not about how's got the biggest [you know what, I hate filters], it's about who's happier, and who gets more fun. Yes, learning skills are a "must", and I've got more than a million more SP than my friends who started like me but didn't devote as much time as me training learning skills. This is more or less the SP devoted to learning, so it was time well spent (6 months notice). But you know what? I wasn't procastrinating at a base, nor was I only training learning. I learned to fly better ships, how to install more modules, and some other things. But it was like this: playing = short skills, offline = learning skills (once they were long). It's not an optimal plan, specially because the advanced learning ones didn't come in until much later, but I had fun doing this because my character evolved. Simply have fun. It's the best plan.

Nah Christ	Posted - 2006.02.27 01:59:00 - [11] :/ you people whine too much. Its not like you cant make money while you wait. Im still working on my learning skills and im flying a bc. Could be flying BS but i have so many cruisers and ** and i dont want to sell them. Anyways...if you r bored of training your learning skills train something else for a bit. Then go back. Hell my brother in arm's learning skills are all at advanced level 2 and 3s and hes been playing for years. And he can pvp/mission ***/ do anything eve allows with the best of em :P. -Death by metal
Mudkest	Posted - 2006.02.27 01:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Lil Muthatrucker I understand the reason CCP put in the learning skills. Uber charecters are so far ahead (some with almost 60 mil skill points) that new people really cant catch up, learning skills are released to bridge this gap, by making their skills taking longer to have gotten to where they are. i think that CCP went about this wrong, they should have done something like every 3 months increasing all skills by 1 for all charecters, and any charecter being made after that having that bonus from the begining. that way, you dont have a 3 month (just guessing, dont know exact) session of incubating doing nothing. first off, 3 months in game i was flying a covetor with learning skills done(. if you incubate to get learning skills, you'll probably be done after 1.5-2 months. second, learning skills ahve the biggest impact on getting skills to level5, wich takes roughly 4 times longer then getting the skill to level4. third, so what if players that started at release have 60mil skillpoints? if you join another game he'd probably have 4-5 characters at level max with a gazilion credits. 4th, in other games if you organise a group of "new"(1-2 month old) players thye still dont stand a chance against 2-3 max levels. in eve such a group is pretty fearsome. learning skills are fine the way theye are, you dont need to get them to 3-4 advanced first thing to be competetive. get them up to 3 or 4 basic while training some other basic skills. electronics, engineering, cruisers, med guns. if you start training learning skills by the time you are ready to train skills to level5 then that's fast enough. by that time you can afford implants to speed up learning skills a little as well. If you spend 2 months incubating then you're a noob with learning skills. if you spend that time learning the game then you're a basic player with reasonable skills and equipment. you start training learning skills for those level5's, and when those are done and you meet the incubate player in his cruiser and more skillpoints you'll probably still kill him.
GreatNick	Posted - 2006.02.27 02:46:00 - [13] i quit like 3 times from geting tired training skills Nick h4x!
Namarus	Posted - 2006.02.27 03:00:00 - [14] You whiners really make me laugh. No one is forcing you to train the learning skills up. That is a conscious decision on your part to reap the benefits of doing so. If you don't want the 'grind' of doing the learning skills, then don't do it. It's as simple as that. You nooblars all get caught up in wanting tonnes of skill points, when really you just need to make sure that you train skills to do the stuff in Eve that you want. Some good advice has already been given to you concerning taking the basic learning skills to level 3 or 4. I myself have got all the learning skills at level 5. I know what a grind it was, but it was a conscious 'choice' to do that. You don't have to do that. The game as been progressing for close to 3 years now, and ever two or three months another nooblar comes up and asks the same old thing. This is not some race to get to level 60 or 70 like other games.
LUKKAT	Posted - 2006.02.27 04:14:00 - [15] Edited by: LUKKAT on 27/02/2006 04:16:37 As a previous posted said it removes the unwanted "boom headshot" counterstrike tkers out of the game. so leave it as it is , just dont bring anymore learning skills into the game
Tripoli	Posted - 2006.02.27 05:18:00 - [16] More learning skills, please. You need not feel obligated to train them. I'll train 'em, though. And then you'll be able to claim you have more useful skill points than I do. --- Skill Collector Level 273 skills trained.
Ishtari	Posted - 2006.02.27 06:03:00 - [17] first train skills to have fun to 3, that takes a day or 2 for each skill. After a week or 2 you re already pretty good in your frigate and getting closer to the cash needed for a cruiser. Then train BASIC learning skills to 3-4. Train support skills and cruiser to 3-4 = more fun, more income. Then go for advanced learning 3-4. And battlecruiser/battleship. While training do missions kill prefered to get up into the `foodchain`, gain experience wih cheap ships and get cash/modules to upgrade when your training is finished.
Yossar	Posted - 2006.02.27 06:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Namarus You whiners really make me laugh. Oh yeah? You whiners about whiners really make me laugh.
Drayce	Posted - 2006.02.27 07:45:00 - [19] Originally by: Erla Maria IMO, all the learning skills are a nice filter to all of the people you really don't want playing eve Yep, between the learning skills and the tutorial, Eve is like a firewall against the attention deficit kids I like it this way
Drayce	Posted - 2006.02.27 07:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Yossar Originally by: Namarus You whiners really make me laugh. Oh yeah? You whiners about whiners really make me laugh. oh yeah, yeah? You whiners about whiners ab... hang on, this is getting us nowhere

Stephen HB	Posted - 2006.02.27 08:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Drayce ...between the learning skills and the tutorial, Eve is like a firewall against the attention deficit kids You're siggied! -- Originally by: Drayce Between the learning skills and the tutorial, Eve is like a firewall against the attention deficit kids. EVE Tracking Guide
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2006.02.27 08:21:00 - [22] Edited by: Herko Kerghans on 27/02/2006 08:25:35 Originally by: Android Mindslave My charater is sitting in the Hanger in the starting station incubating. Yes, incubating. How silly is that. It is very discouraging to new players that any path that does not start with learning skills is automatically a less optimal path. Hum... I think I know what you mean... yet perhaps you are not seeing two points: 1) EVE is VERY open-ended; and there are a multitude of ways to achieve a goal. Maybe you want to take the high-risk, high-reward... maybe you prefer the slow but sure, and so forth. Learning skills cater, if you want, to us (I think you may be included in the group; I sure am) efficiency geeks and nerds that say "ok, study first, party later". Learning skills are there to give those with patience and discipline a reward over the more instant-gratification oriented. (which, to be honest, have their own way to go around it: if you train, say, combat ships rather than learning, you may make money faster and get to the implants faster... as I said, a path for everyone. ) 2) Some subtle thing a lot of people dont seem to notice is that training learning skills early on is a HUGE optimizer of skillpoints. No, I'm not talking about how you train faster; I'm talking about how you train for what you really want to do. You gave the example yourself: if the learning skills weren't there, you would train a bit of mining, a bit of fighting... maybe test amarrian and lasers, then switch to caldari and missiles... hey, what about building stuff? Before you notice, those first two months you have your skillpoints spreaded thin across a multitude of skills that later on you never really use. The couple of months you invest mostly training learning skills are also 'learning time' for yourself; after those two months, you will have read enough threads, talked to enough people, and looked long and hard enought to the item database to know rather well what ship, with what guns, and with what support skills, you want to fly. So two months down the road, when you 'really' start training, all your attributes are +9 AND you are fully focused; a skillpoint acquiring machine that actually knows what it wants to do with those skillpoints. Don't know about you, but it make my perfectionist, nerd heart all warm and fuzzy. Barriers - an EVE novel
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2006.02.27 10:41:00 - [23] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 27/02/2006 10:41:27 There's no rule that says you have to train all of the advanced learning skills up to 5 straight off the bat in order to have fun. During your first six months train the skills that will allow you to fly your ships better and also take the basic learning skills up to 4. That way, you'll actually have some fun! And no, you won't gimp your learning rate too badly either. Then, you can take a deep breath and work on getting the basic learning skills up to 5, and then the advanceds up to 4/5. Remember - Eve is about what you can do in the game, and how well you can do it. It's not about getting an arbitary "high score". Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Loimbard	Posted - 2006.02.27 10:52:00 - [24] Also, EVE is very much about teamwork. I can speak from experience when I say I was tackled (warp scrambled & webbed) by a three month old player in a frigate. I was in an average cruiser. I couldnt kill him quickly enough to escape before his buddies in HACs came down and roasted me.. New players are as effective as older ones. THE SCOPE - All the news, views and sports. All day, every day.
Mike Yagon	Posted - 2006.02.27 10:58:00 - [25] Heh, this is exactly why I recommend new players to spend their first month training cruiser level skills. It's not like 'wasting' one month on fun would destroy your character. Sure, going all-out on the learning skills right of the bat may be the optimal path skillpoint wise. But it's definitely not the optimal path to enjoying the game. Spend the first month training up to fly a decent cruiser, then spend a month doing the learning skills to advanced 3 or something. Then spend another month training fun things again, then consider spending the next month on taking the learning skills to 5 if you feel like it. Remember, EVE is just a game. Games are supposeed to be fun. This is also why I discourage new players from reading the Skills forum, because they get this "MUST DO LEARNING SKILLS" chant into their skulls and it's hard to talk them out of it. Sure it'll help them in the LONG run. But the average player lasts only 7 months according to that dev blog, I'm not sure if such a long term investment is worth it on their part. Have some fun first, get sold to the game, then consider long term investments.
Hohenheim OfLight	Posted - 2006.02.27 11:23:00 - [26] I must admit you do find more and mroe new player snow are jsut sitting docked fo the first few motnhs of eve doing the learning skills up. They are pritty much considered a requirment by most new players i have run into. ---------------------------------------------- http://www.auil51.dsl.pipex.com/EVE/evesig.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Davip This signature is 400x129 pixels and 23.257 bytes.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.27 11:27:00 - [27] Why do people insist on training their learning skills up to 5 before they even train up cruiser? You people are mindless [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Herko Kerghans	Posted - 2006.02.27 11:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Dark Shikari Why do people insist on training their learning skills up to 5 before they even train up cruiser? 'cos anything bigger than a frig is for pansies. Barriers - an EVE novel
Jim Steele	Posted - 2006.02.27 11:58:00 - [29] Eve is about so much more than skillpoints, its about teamwork cooperation and having fun! Befor the advance learning skills most people only trained them to level 4 and it was in better that way imho.. I think a better solution for the new characters would be to reduce the skill requirements for the advance ones to level 4 of their pre-requisite skills. 1-4 of the basic learning skills doesnt take long work on their ship skills then go back to the learning skills when time arises. I know skill training sucks, but everyone has had the same disadvantage Author of "The Apoc Guide"
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.02.27 12:07:00 - [30] Read this! And learning isn't required for anything, hell adv. learning didn't even exist when I started playing. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool



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