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Torze
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Posted - 2006.02.27 04:48:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Torze on 27/02/2006 04:49:02 I've never understood the line of reasoning on the complaints on the new missions. IMO, when you take a mission for say, Minmatar. You are working FOR Minmatar. You have chosen to do the Minmatar's government (or a corporation that is extremely friendly with the Minmatar govenment) dirty work. This alone should hurt your standings with any faction that is against the Minmatar.
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Torze
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Posted - 2006.02.27 04:48:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Torze on 27/02/2006 04:49:02 I've never understood the line of reasoning on the complaints on the new missions. IMO, when you take a mission for say, Minmatar. You are working FOR Minmatar. You have chosen to do the Minmatar's government (or a corporation that is extremely friendly with the Minmatar govenment) dirty work. This alone should hurt your standings with any faction that is against the Minmatar.
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Torze
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Posted - 2006.02.27 04:48:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Torze on 27/02/2006 04:49:02 I've never understood the line of reasoning on the complaints on the new missions. IMO, when you take a mission for say, Minmatar. You are working FOR Minmatar. You have chosen to do the Minmatar's government (or a corporation that is extremely friendly with the Minmatar govenment) dirty work. This alone should hurt your standings with any faction that is against the Minmatar.
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Torze
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Posted - 2006.02.27 04:48:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Torze on 27/02/2006 04:49:02 I've never understood the line of reasoning on the complaints on the new missions. IMO, when you take a mission for say, Minmatar. You are working FOR Minmatar. You have chosen to do the Minmatar's government (or a corporation that is extremely friendly with the Minmatar govenment) dirty work. This alone should hurt your standings with any faction that is against the Minmatar.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.02.27 08:00:00 -
[35]
@Torze: The system has been changed a few times without the devs telling us in any form. The system is broken by design and design changes and the devs don't want or can't fix it. The 'easy' fix would require reoganizing roughly 1/3 of the stations and agents together with the devs telling us about it in advance because quitea lot of pilots and corps would have to move their stuff in advance.
'if you're Minmatar': What kind of Minmatar do you talk about? +so called 'Republic'? Gotta love missions against Amarr in Amarr space! +Thukker Tribe? Gotta love loosing standing in the regions where half their agents and stations are! +Angel Cartell? hmmm yeah, right +Ammatar? Just make sure you don't try to approach none-Ammatar and none-Amarr stations in Ammatar space. --*=*=*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Shugo Kazuma
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Posted - 2006.02.27 08:40:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Torze Edited by: Torze on 27/02/2006 04:49:02 I've never understood the line of reasoning on the complaints on the new missions. IMO, when you take a mission for say, Minmatar. You are working FOR Minmatar. You have chosen to do the Minmatar's government (or a corporation that is extremely friendly with the Minmatar govenment) dirty work. This alone should hurt your standings with any faction that is against the Minmatar.
It just seems inconsistent that you should loose like 0.24 standing with the minmitar republic (Tech Secrets Parts 1-3) for blowing a away a bunch of Fleet Republic Ships and then not loose any standing with the Fleet Republic Corp itself.
If anything, the loss for the minmitar republic should say something like "-8% derived modification", not "-8% Ship Kill".
I can understand why some people are upset. Doing certain missions causes decently large loss of standing against one faction, and you gain some corp standing for completeing the mission. Seems a bit offbalance that to gain standing with a corp without turning down most of the new missions, you have to take heafty faction standing losses. And you don't even gain any standing with the faction you are working for when you take these hits beyond standard storyline gains.
I know they want to seemingly polarise people for when Kali comes and empire war starts, but new people who don't manage their missions (ie, reject ones that give vast faction losses) well can easily end up with below -5.0 against a faction before they even get to +2.0 or so with their starter faction.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.02.27 10:02:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Shugo Kazuma I know they want to seemingly polarise people for when Kali comes and empire war starts, but new people who don't manage their missions (ie, reject ones that give vast faction losses) well can easily end up with below -5.0 against a faction before they even get to +2.0 or so with their starter faction.
As indeed they should. If you even sign UP to work for a Minmatar agent, the Empire should have you on its KOS list. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Fergus Runkle
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Posted - 2006.02.27 10:20:00 -
[38]
I have no issue with losing standing for the ship kills, even though my Amarr, Ammatar and Caldari standings make me KOS in half the 'verse.
I DO think that there should be some standing boost for doing these missions, I mean if you do Portal to War you are stopping an invasion and you get no Minmatar Rep standing. Then you go and do a storyline mission that involves hauling two vips !!! I mean come ON what's the most important there.
Oh and I really really really hope that when Factional Warfare comes in that the people who have grinded away to get their high standings are rewarded in someway.
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Radamathadus
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Posted - 2006.02.27 11:09:00 -
[39]
There are going to be many situations being thrown up by factional warfare that make little sense.
Last night I completed In the Midst of Deadspace in Lonetrek and did have a laugh at the irony of blowing up the Stargate and then the Caldari fleet in Caldari space - hardly the Matari backyard.
There is a cluster of Republic Security Services Stations in and around Ylandoki, Aakari and Korama. Much fun will be had by the runners working there when the new patch hits and fire is taken from the Caldari Navy jumping beteen systems for missions.
Can we expect the NPC navies to camp the enemies factions stations? Or the various factions simply demand or remove opposed factions stations from their own space?
If you do find yourself at the wrong end of an enemies factions guns remember Diplomacy skill raises you standing with negative rated factions.
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Sendraks
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Posted - 2006.02.27 11:51:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Shugo Kazuma but new people who don't manage their missions (ie, reject ones that give vast faction losses) well can easily end up with below -5.0 against a faction before they even get to +2.0 or so with their starter faction.
Whats being new got to do with it? I do every mission my agent throws at me, because I'm working for that faction. If I want my standings to go the other way, I'll work for another faction.
I've been working for the Gallente for a while now and I'm nearing a standing of 4 with that faction and I'm still a ways off a standing of 2 with the Amarr and Caladari.
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Spy4Hire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:08:00 -
[41]
Yes, it is quite annoying how security & standings losses accrue at stupidly high rates while gains are drops of water in an ocean.
Blow up a single building: -0.8% standing loss (for example). Run a mission, kill dozens of enemy assets: +0.003% standing gain. And on top of that maybe suffer 3% or more standing loss with the 'target' enemy.
I don't really want to see standing gains change, but I really wish they would make standing losses a whole lot slower. After running a single 'important' mission for one faction I suddenly find I can't enter 'enemy' space because of the absolutely cripling standings losses. With just one mission, whereas the gain with my 'ally' was a pittance at best.
It's crippling, and affects game play in hugely negative ways (i.e. unable to join PvP ops because I can't go through 'enemy' space to get there, thus forcing me into a PvE *only* game which rapidly becomes boring).
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Myadra
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Posted - 2006.02.28 10:20:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Myadra on 28/02/2006 10:26:06
The standing system as it is, should be left as is, and if you choose the path to work for a pirate npc corperation, such as me, you must pay the price, slowly you'll take a path to being their loyal servant and further noted by enemys of who you work for.. and so more hated.
Same as if you worked for minmatar you'd soon be hated by amarr.. also a note to add about being -5.00 to a empire.
-Only one cruiser two frigate appear and take pot shots, and you can still travel through space you are -5.00 faction to, even my bestower can tank what comes after me, its alot different from "concord / security status"
-Another downside is, cause the three police ships chase you , you cannot cloak in hostile space..
being -5.00 to faction or corp, still allows you to dock, but once at this level you cannot run missions any longer even with diplomacy lvl5.
and another note, Diplomacy skill will not effect being chased by the two frigates and cruiser if your -5.00 to faction. even if your only -2.20 with skills. and this does not affect pvp in any way... i REPEAT this does not affect pvp in any way, unless your in a untanked ship for almost an hour, these ships that chase you cannot kill you... and if they do, then a 2 day old npc corp alt could kill you lol.
Choose your path, and stick with it, you cant be liked by everyone.. I'm nearly -5.00 to every empire faction now, yet i still travel in their space.. with very few problems.
Our website http://www.blood-inquisition.net
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Lebowske
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Posted - 2006.02.28 12:14:00 -
[43]
I agree with the OP - the standing hit is way too hard. Not alone for 1 player - but it also ruins a Player-corp with mixed races.
The whole argument "you're working for them - accept the loss" is purely RP based. Should all player-corps go the RP routes from now on?
Anyway, I've set up some suggestion own my own regarding the issue - but it seems to be quite few who's affected by this.
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- Lebowski -- I, the royal we, you know, the editorial -- |
Giovannie Leone
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Posted - 2006.02.28 14:45:00 -
[44]
i've been waiting for this change since i started playing eve, now if only they would prevent people that were below a certain sec from docking that would be cool as well, eg, if you hunt sansha all day long in 0.0, they wont let you in theri stations. Thats how it should be.
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Oosel
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Posted - 2006.02.28 15:33:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Giovannie Leone i've been waiting for this change since i started playing eve, now if only they would prevent people that were below a certain sec from docking that would be cool as well, eg, if you hunt sansha all day long in 0.0, they wont let you in theri stations. Thats how it should be.
if that was the case wouldnt npc stations in stain become out of bounds for the entire stain alliance and such or am i not getting it right
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Abbey Smallwood
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Posted - 2006.02.28 16:10:00 -
[46]
The main problem is this:
Right now: Pirate Missions are Awful. Worse rewards than low sec empire missions, and more danger.
After BLOOD: Not only will you get puny rewards for pirate missions, you will very rapidly be banned from empire space. Hardly worth it imho. You wasted 4 seconds reading this post and you'll never get those back. |
Inconstant Moon
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Posted - 2006.02.28 17:58:00 -
[47]
I have done missions for both Caldari and Gallente in order to preserve my freedom to travel. But I have favoured Caldari and now it seems my efforts to be at least tolerable to my so-called enemy are in vain.
History is full of people who work for both sides, and I shall hear no 'RP' argument against it. In any case, it was twice the work for half the gain trying to keep things balanced, but now it is to be impossible at all?
I do not want to be stuck in Caldari space. Gallente stations are much prettier! |
Empyre
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Posted - 2006.02.28 20:06:00 -
[48]
it's realistic, but not very practical. as the system stands now, i can control my faction gains/losses to make sure no 1 of the 4 races ends up wanting to kill me. it would really suck to have to be forced into one faction only.
it DOES do something for "replayability" but since it would take you years to get one character skilled out max in several areas, you don't need replayability anyway.
i actually had planned to have L4 agents available for each faction and just jump around to them to keep a bit a variety and see a different system every so often. seems as though I won't be able to play like that for too much longer. :(
----- my playstyle is anti-pirate. what does this mean? it means you'll never catch me in a valuable ship and/or setup where it can be compromised. go on, trade your ammo for the scraps you'll get. |
Mistress Suffering
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Posted - 2006.03.01 00:18:00 -
[49]
Everyone knows that the true way to measure a man's feeling towards an Empire is to see how he treats their janitors.
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Torze
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Posted - 2006.03.01 01:31:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Spy4Hire Yes, it is quite annoying how security & standings losses accrue at stupidly high rates while gains are drops of water in an ocean.
Blow up a single building: -0.8% standing loss (for example). Run a mission, kill dozens of enemy assets: +0.003% standing gain. And on top of that maybe suffer 3% or more standing loss with the 'target' enemy. Quote:
Think about how govenments work in real life. Take Al'queda (sp?) for a second. In the 80's the US was backing Al'queda in their war with the soviets. In 2001 they blow up 2 US buildings. Do you think that they should have just lost a small amount of standing?
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Shugo Kazuma
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Posted - 2006.03.01 03:29:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Shugo Kazuma I know they want to seemingly polarise people for when Kali comes and empire war starts, but new people who don't manage their missions (ie, reject ones that give vast faction losses) well can easily end up with below -5.0 against a faction before they even get to +2.0 or so with their starter faction.
As indeed they should. If you even sign UP to work for a Minmatar agent, the Empire should have you on its KOS list.
And of course, I have no personal problem with it being like that. But you read some of these missions, it sounds like you're doing some sort of MASSIVE big time favor for your EMPIRE. What do you get? A nice standing bonus from the corp you're working for, and zip from your empire.
If you're taking hits to one faction, shouldn't you be making some gains towards yours? I mean, take an 8% hit to the minmitar for stopping their fleet, should you not get at least a 1 or 2% gain with the amarr empire for your heroic efforts at stopping an invasion that for some reason they couldn't?
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.03.01 12:22:00 -
[52]
The system is implanced atm and could do with some loving. IMHO
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2006.03.01 18:11:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Harry Voyager on 01/03/2006 18:15:04 Edited by: Harry Voyager on 01/03/2006 18:11:55 Edited by: Harry Voyager on 01/03/2006 18:11:19
Originally by: Torze
Originally by: Spy4Hire Yes, it is quite annoying how security & standings losses accrue at stupidly high rates while gains are drops of water in an ocean.
Blow up a single building: -0.8% standing loss (for example). Run a mission, kill dozens of enemy assets: +0.003% standing gain. And on top of that maybe suffer 3% or more standing loss with the 'target' enemy.
Think about how govenments work in real life. Take Al'queda (sp?) for a second. In the 80's the US was backing Al'queda in their war with the soviets. In 2001 they blow up 2 US buildings. Do you think that they should have just lost a small amount of standing?
Yea, but if you work for the US Governemnt, you get something out of it. The Minmatar or Amarr governments, you get nothing from working for them, and a whole lot of grief for it.
The problem is that the "governments" in Eve are fake. They do nothing, aside from spit isk, and kill players. They are a complete fraud. They have nothing to be loyal too, no ideals, no actions, nothing. If you expect someone to face the penalties of loyalty, then you must also provide the rewards of it, else you are ripping them off.
This is what the current Eve factional system does. It expects you to imagine the society, while enforcing its loyalties. It is false.
Harry Voyager
Edit: Torze, try to sort out your quotes when you do.
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Torze
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Posted - 2006.03.02 08:53:00 -
[54]
They govenments to reward you. They reward you with the mission payout. Also, the agent offers. Though I will agree that there needs to be more of a benifit to having a higher standing with an Empire. I am personally hoping that the Empire wars will bring that.
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nubchar
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Posted - 2006.03.02 18:44:00 -
[55]
Just went from +3 with amarr empire to +1.6 killing 2 amarr navy transport ships on a mission just afetr server came up
So, yeah it sucks now, no more agent missions for me :(
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2006.03.02 22:27:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Torze They govenments to reward you. They reward you with the mission payout. Also, the agent offers. Though I will agree that there needs to be more of a benifit to having a higher standing with an Empire. I am personally hoping that the Empire wars will bring that.
You're still missing the point. These "nations" are little more than kill/don't kill lists. They have little else to offer or threaten with. They have nothing to be loyal too, yet it is supposedly fit for them to demand such.
Suppose I do throw my lot in with the Republic, and make myself a sworn enemy of the Empire. What does this mean? At it is is every day or so I call up spawns of fake Imperial Navy ships to be slaughtered like lambs, and whenever I hit their space, they bring fleets to kill me. Does this mean I can hunt their populous, raid their convoys, destroy their facilities? No, it just means I can't travel through their territory. It changes nothing, save a few transit routes.
This is your loyalty? A few highways and some cash?
Harry Voyager
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Zeromancer
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Posted - 2006.03.02 22:48:00 -
[57]
The point of this is to get you to choose a side. Haven't you guys understood where this game eventually goes? Didn't you read up on the RMR patch and the faction dividing there?
In Kali (+) we will get factional warfare. If you have hight standing with lets say Federation Navy and The Gallente Federation you will be able to join the Federation Navy and fight other players in other navys. You will get rewards and medals for you service to the Federation and even gain rank in the navy.
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Smithers
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Posted - 2006.03.03 00:03:00 -
[58]
The problem is tho zeromancer, you dont gain anything doing these deadspace missions you just LOSE standing. So you dont choose a side, you just get fked by one without any reward of standings from teh other.
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Lebowske
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Posted - 2006.03.03 11:09:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Zeromancer The point of this is to get you to choose a side. Haven't you guys understood where this game eventually goes? Didn't you read up on the RMR patch and the faction dividing there?
The one's who's saying "face it, pick your side" havent considered these facts: Point is - if you are not a lonewolf - and in a corp woth some 20-25 members - which side shall you pick when everyone has different faction standings? - Do you expect everyone in your corp to accept following the same faction? - When you started the game didnt you get good standing towards 1 faction only, and didnt you follow that faction?
The hardhitting negative standing ruins any member-corp based standings for some people - as well as the whole idea of Jump Clones.
The sum of the current effect from standing may cause a player-corp to break up because of widely dispersed standings - or the corp members may get a paralyzing effect so noone dares to do NPC hunting/missions.
Indeed - you can choose to avoid the missions/npc's giving the negative standing - but thats about 50% ov the PvE environment at the moment.
Something is not right .... --------------------
- Lebowski -- I, the royal we, you know, the editorial -- Your agent, Your Corp and You |
Gonada
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Posted - 2006.03.03 12:32:00 -
[60]
the problem is that most of the people playing eve have played other games.
games where there are no consequences
games where you can be the happy carebear, and if your vocal enough you can change the game.
eve is not one of these games.
you pick your side. dont like it? booo hoooo, you can do agent missons with the other guys to fix fact.
still dont like it?
leave
-I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
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