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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:07:00 -
[1]
Well the other night while looting from a mission a pirate showed up and blue up my friend who where in a hauler... no problem, good job finding us there btw (deadspace mission).
Anyway .. so we go back this time armed and prepared... well sort of, Mind you either of us know pvp good, and if I can avoid to fight I do.
So this pirate once again show up with his raven fitted with tech 2 missiles and this time I have tanked for the damage so he does not do much damage to me, I nos him, warpscramble him and after I get him down to half armor he warps off... yes we where 2 battleships against his one... but still he is or should be more experienced in the art of PvP than me.
So my point to this thread ??? to tell that Pirates use WCS too... I am sure this guy had atleast 1 wcs on his ship.
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:10:00 -
[2]
thank you for letting me know, I will be sure to keep that in mind.
And Wrangler > j00 -Eldo
I pwnt Wrangler - Tenacha |
Electric Cucumber
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:10:00 -
[3]
If he evaded 1 scrambler he had at least 2 WCS,but so what?
Kaos Empire |
Chode Rizoum
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:14:00 -
[4]
i started thinking about using 6 stabs on my tempest.. because all my opponents have like +3 stabs
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zincol
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:15:00 -
[5]
2x WCS is Standard PVP setup these days.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:17:00 -
[6]
I luv stabs
Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:30:00 -
[7]
Well atleast don't complain about carebears using WCS then 
BTW... was fun fighting him.
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. |
pshepherd
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:02:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Arcticblue2
Well atleast don't complain about carebears using WCS then
BTW... was fun fighting him.
we use them because they used them first 
==============
This is a sig
O RLY? - Imaran
I've only done 4 hours of Tools for 2D graphics, give me a few weeks and i'll be cool, really. |
Lifewire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:04:00 -
[9]
Why complain about stabs? Those were made for pirates - for skirmish warfare, to fight blobs, to fight outnumbered, to get a kill and run. WCS are good, i like them, i really like them, i nearly love them, but like them, i lalalalalike them...
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Skoodwask
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:13:00 -
[10]
WCS are a losing strat. When you fit them you might as well say, I'm not going to win the fight. If you fit WCS you sarcrifice power for safety. Only people afriad to lose there ships fit them.
If your afraid to lose your ship you probably can't afford to lose it. If you can't afford to lose it you shouldn't fly it.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:40:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Lifewire on 27/02/2006 13:40:40
Quote:
WCS are a losing strat. When you fit them you might as well say, I'm not going to win the fight. If you fit WCS you sarcrifice power for safety. Only people afriad to lose there ships fit them.
If your afraid to lose your ship you probably can't afford to lose it. If you can't afford to lose it you shouldn't fly it.
Hm...no 
Stabs are perfect to attack a group that outnumbers your group. You warp in, kill one and warp out. So you expect to win. WCS make you ship be a skirmish combat unit - nothting more or less.
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tiller
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:12:00 -
[12]
Yup, I fly with usually 2 or 3.
The main argument for not using stabs is they gimp your setup. With the raven however you have a few spare low slots that would not improve your dmg or tank that much if used by something else.
Fitting something to let you run away from a fight that you are about to lose is a good thing. Remember, pirates by there very nature do alot more fighting than others and can't afford to lose a ship everytime a bunch of heros blob them at a gate.
Alot of PVP skill in eve boils down to how brave you are and knowing when a fight is hopeless or you have a chance of winning. If you have a chance of winning a fight, stay and fight... if not just leave, there is no point dieing for nothing unless your either dumb or rich.
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tiller
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:34:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Skoodwask
WCS are a losing strat. When you fit them you might as well say, I'm not going to win the fight. If you fit WCS you sarcrifice power for safety. Only people afriad to lose there ships fit them.
If your afraid to lose your ship you probably can't afford to lose it. If you can't afford to lose it you shouldn't fly it.
Really m8, don't post unless you've thought things through. On a average gate camp solo maybe I'll kill 2-3 BS, a couple of HACS and a ton of other assorted ships totalling say 20-30. Thats in a couple of hours. Now I'm guessing thats more than you kill in a wk. Just a guess mind you....
Do you think killing in those kind of quanitys increases the risk of losing my own ship in the process ?, do you think anyone who kills for a living in eve could sustain a loss every day ?
think, then post :)
ps: I'm not bigging myself up, any fool can kill people.. staying alive long enough to do it is the trick. Stabs are a tool to help me do what I enjoy.
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Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:44:00 -
[14]
Its quite funny, because in the ISSN we *never* fit WCS to our PvP setups, but 80%+ of the pirates we encounter have them fitted.
And we're the ones accused of being carebears!
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The viewpoints expressed are my own, not necessarily those of my Corporation or Alliance. |
EvilTwin I
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:49:00 -
[15]
explains why I fly with 2x 7.5km = 4
Be Smart ..Be a retard Level 5  |
Nafri
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: EvilTwin I
explains why I fly with 2x 7.5km = 4
wont help when I fly a thron 
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Qu'ut Nez
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:54:00 -
[17]
The modules are there to be used, pirate or not. You're not entitled to warp scrambling anyone, pirate or not.
Obligatory "but still I don't use them" comment: I don't fly anything bigger than a Ferox for PvP, cause otherwise I'm too concerned about losing it. I fit stabs for running gate camps, but that's not really PvP. More like being an asteroid evading evil miners. 
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tiller
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Posted - 2006.02.27 15:06:00 -
[18]
Edited by: tiller on 27/02/2006 15:09:16
Originally by: Butter Dog
Its quite funny, because in the ISSN we *never* fit WCS to our PvP setups, but 80%+ of the pirates we encounter have them fitted.
And we're the ones accused of being carebears!
Though I doubt you are solo in high sec space with every wannabe hunting you 
Hunting in a fleet is a different story alltogether..
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Berak FalCheran
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Posted - 2006.02.27 15:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: zincol
2x WCS is Standard PVP setup these days.
I don't even tank, I'm such a puss... I fit like every low-slot with WCS. sometimes co-procs if I need the cpu to fit more WCS.
In short: Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 15:17:00 -
[20]
stabpacker
Forum:http://www.tundragon.com/forum/
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Archilies
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Posted - 2006.02.27 15:34:00 -
[21]
Theres nothing wrong with using stabs, their an important part of eve , and an important part of ship set ups. for those that say their for wimps, remember:
'It's better to run, and come back to fight another day than to drop dead like a 4 horned donkey'
Sun Tzu
nullMy own version of his statement
EECC Recruitment Thread |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.02.27 15:37:00 -
[22]
When fighting rediculously outnumbered stabs are a big help...but I don't use stabs much in empire because its too hard to tank and gank while wearing stabs.
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Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.02.27 17:41:00 -
[23]
Originally by: tiller
Edited by: tiller on 27/02/2006 15:09:16
Originally by: Butter Dog
Its quite funny, because in the ISSN we *never* fit WCS to our PvP setups, but 80%+ of the pirates we encounter have them fitted.
And we're the ones accused of being carebears!
Though I doubt you are solo in high sec space with every wannabe hunting you
Hunting in a fleet is a different story alltogether..
No but I am often alone in KDF with every pirate corp in Catch on my rear end... :) Believe me, it gets hot down there.
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The viewpoints expressed are my own, not necessarily those of my Corporation or Alliance. |
Atom HeartMother
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Posted - 2006.02.27 18:11:00 -
[24]
Stabs Make Babey Jesus CRY
Originally by: Bonaventure Augustus
Because lets be honest, the number of people who play this game drunk on the weekends is astounding.
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Aeron Ralth
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Posted - 2006.02.27 18:18:00 -
[25]
As a perceptive poet once said...
And therefore I, with reason, chose
This stratagem t' amuse our foes;
To make an honourable retreat,
And wave a total sure defeat;
For those that fly may fight again,
Which he can never do that's slain.
Hence timely running's no mean part
Of conduct in the martial art;
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Tiffany Aleeus
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Posted - 2006.02.27 19:35:00 -
[26]
wtf was that last post about?
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Yarek Balear
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Posted - 2006.02.27 20:02:00 -
[27]
It basically says that it's better to retreat (using WCS) and fight again than die...
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EvilTwin I
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Posted - 2006.02.27 21:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: EvilTwin I
explains why I fly with 2x 7.5km = 4
wont help when I fly a thron
hopefully u dont waste half of your lows on stabs?
 4 stab'ed thron Vs my BatMobile = |
EvilTwin I
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Posted - 2006.02.27 21:06:00 -
[29]
Do people actually believe everything they read here? |
LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.02.27 21:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Atom HeartMother
Stabs Make Babey Jesus CRY
True ^^
/votekick stabs
With great power, comes great responsibility. |
themule
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Posted - 2006.02.27 22:35:00 -
[31]
Down with stabs!
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Nira Li
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Posted - 2006.02.27 22:40:00 -
[32]
Yeh down with stabs
Just kill everyone and warp out or die trying
You Will Cry My Name |
OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.02.27 23:13:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Archilies
Theres nothing wrong with using stabs, their an important part of eve , and an important part of ship set ups. for those that say their for wimps, remember:
'It's better to run, and come back to fight another day than to drop dead like a 4 horned donkey'
Sun Tzu
nullMy own version of his statement
Ya it'll be fun when you do come back to fight them and you are close to killing them then they warp away
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Daikatana00
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Posted - 2006.02.27 23:15:00 -
[34]
You all are just mad because you are armor tanks and can actually use those low slots . WCS are what the Caldari get because we can't put up a good defense and do our e-warfare at the same time. Don't complain, just train a ship made for them like the Raven.
Hit and run FTW.
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Anti AntiPirate
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Posted - 2006.02.28 00:20:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Daikatana00
You all are just mad because you are armor tanks and can actually use those low slots . WCS are what the Caldari get because we can't put up a good defense and do our e-warfare at the same time. Don't complain, just train a ship made for them like the Raven.
Hit and run FTW.
Make stabs midslot mods :P fix those ravens right up.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.02.28 01:06:00 -
[36]
gheyest thread ever.
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Jhonen Senraedi
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Posted - 2006.02.28 02:18:00 -
[37]
Yeah..I say we ban stabs....but only if
Warp Scramblers are also banned
Indies get 10 times the shields and armour they currently have.
Most of you seem to want to ban stabs because it takes away from your fun..hmm..how about the fun your taking away from someone in an unarmed or as near as dammit...Indy that moves like a slug?
The game is for everyone to enjoy in their own way..not just your's..but then again stabs are probably about as fair as a gang of 3 or more all taking down a Badger etc.Tough kills those.
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Skoodwask
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Posted - 2006.02.28 03:26:00 -
[38]
Originally by: tiller
Edited by: tiller on 27/02/2006 14:35:21
Originally by: Skoodwask
WCS are a losing strat. When you fit them you might as well say, I'm not going to win the fight. If you fit WCS you sarcrifice power for safety. Only people afriad to lose there ships fit them.
If your afraid to lose your ship you probably can't afford to lose it. If you can't afford to lose it you shouldn't fly it.
Really m8, don't post unless you've thought things through. On a average gate camp solo maybe I'll kill 2-3 BS, a couple of HACS and a ton of other assorted ships totalling say 20-30. Thats in a couple of hours. Now I'm guessing thats more than you kill in a wk. Just a guess mind you....
Do you think killing in those kind of quanitys increases the risk of losing my own ship in the process ?, do you think anyone who kills for a living in eve could sustain a loss every day ?
think, then post :)
ps: I'm not bigging myself up, any fool can kill people.. staying alive long enough to do again, again and again, day in day out is the trick. Stabs are a tool to help me do what I enjoy.
Nah I kill loads of people. Ya I thought it through, I could have a larger kill/lose ratio if I used stabs. But I wouldn't get as many kills.
If I sacrificed my tank I may lose the fight, thus the kill and any good loot on it.
I prefer mass amounts of kills to safety. And no im not extremely rich, I make just enough to get by buy my next ship and go kill some more. I'm probably poor compared to most pvper's. But losing a ship doesnt bother me at all as long as I have fun losing it.
As a side note, Losing it to an alliance blob does bother me a bit but no amount of stabs could save me from that I don't think.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2006.02.28 05:08:00 -
[39]
Stabs are fine in pricipal. Even fighting with one or two stabs on, I can see in many cases. Though personally I think its to easy to do so now, and a change is needed.
Not to mention thier counter, scramblers. Use cap, have a very limited range, well under the tracking of many guns. Require a lock, a mid slot (more important then lows) etc etc. Not to mention they don't actually counter stabs, in many cases, as you need stabs +1 worht of strenght to stop a ship.
Not to mention, being able to fit out your entire lows with stabs means there's not a single set up in the game that can reliably counter it. Take a geddon with 8 stabs, as of current there exists no ship that can kill that geddon solo. (yes I know you can fit out a scorp with 5 7.5km scramblers, but actually being able to use them requires either a ton of luck or a second pilot) Which frankly isn't balanced at all, when you know someone exact fitting, and can not, in any way set up your ship to counter said fitting.
The solution most propossed here is, 'bring more friends' Well tbh, thats the stupidest way to balance a game I have ever heard. If the game were changed tommorow so that apoc's were winning 2v1's with ease, do you think that tomb saying 'well bring three people' would be acceptable? Such is the case today with stabs, in many aspects.
Now I'm not even sure how to change stabs in order for them to still be useable in a simular fashion, yet not be as usable in pvp as they are today. I've heard some good suggestions, but a change to a mode wildly used by a large portion of the player base (which is anouther indication of unbalance) needs to be addressed with the utmost caution.
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Necromancer D
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Posted - 2006.02.28 05:29:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Its quite funny, because in the ISSN we *never* fit WCS to our PvP setups, but 80%+ of the pirates we encounter have them fitted.
And we're the ones accused of being carebears!
using WCS doesn't make you a carebear, nor does not fitting them make you not a carebear.
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Lady Amira
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Posted - 2006.02.28 06:07:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Atom HeartMother
Stabs Make Babey Jesus CRY
I don't care .. I'm an atheist
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.02.28 06:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Atom HeartMother
Stabs Make Babey Jesus CRY
If jesus played eve he would fit stabs, so that statement is false.
New vid: "we're back" |
Phelan Boots
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Posted - 2006.02.28 07:04:00 -
[43]
Quote:
If jesus played eve he would fit stabs, so that statement is false.
Jesus is totally a carebear...
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pshepherd
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Posted - 2006.02.28 09:12:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Phelan Boots
Jesus is totally a carebear...
true, true
==============
This is a sig
O RLY? - Imaran
I've only done 4 hours of Tools for 2D graphics, give me a few weeks and i'll be cool, really. |
Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2006.02.28 09:29:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Arcticblue2 on 28/02/2006 09:34:00
Or as Mel Gibson once said... "He who runs away, may run away another day"
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. |
Ginger Magician
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Posted - 2006.02.28 09:58:00 -
[46]
People used to whine so much about me using stabs in the old curse alliance days - now it is commonplace.
Anyway if u want to blame anyone for the current widespread use of wcs I guess I was the father of it.
But as been posted here and people have finally come to realise they dont gimp your setup enough to make a huge difference,tbey enable u to survive many fights u would otherwise have lost your ship in and most importantly are one of the few valid tactics that can be used against cowardly carebear blob squads.
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Alliaanna Dalaii
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Posted - 2006.02.28 10:20:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
Anyway if u want to blame anyone for the current widespread use of wcs I guess I was the father of it.
Aye your great and amazing wisdom caused CCP to make a counter to the Scrambler.... Oh no wait
Alliaanna
Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-= |
hired goon
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Posted - 2006.02.28 12:15:00 -
[48]
Fighting someone with WCS on is like being around an annoying child.
You want to punch the stupid kid in the face but you just can't.
-omg-
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Sluggish
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Posted - 2006.02.28 12:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
and most importantly are one of the few valid tactics that can be used against cowardly carebear blob squads.
What a joke, i have seen you run from every non noob who has challenged you in the last month and it probably does gimp your setup as you use 5 or 6 of them |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2006.02.28 13:26:00 -
[50]
Originally by: hired goon
Fighting someone with WCS on is like being around an annoying child.
You want to punch the stupid kid in the face but you just can't.
QFT
I dont fit stabs because I have to much of an ego to believe that anything out there can beat me
And Wrangler > j00 -Eldo
I pwnt Wrangler - Tenacha |
Cvuos
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Posted - 2006.02.28 13:36:00 -
[51]
 Warp scramblers are modules, not civil rights
Whining about someone not fighting on your terms is the worst kind of whining
Whining about someone whining about someone not fighting on their terms is perfectly ok
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pshepherd
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Posted - 2006.02.28 13:53:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Cvuos
Whining about someone whining about someone not fighting on their terms is perfectly ok
what about whining about someone whose whining about someone whose whining? 
==============
This is a sig
O RLY? - Imaran
I've only done 4 hours of Tools for 2D graphics, give me a few weeks and i'll be cool, really. |
Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.02.28 14:00:00 -
[53]
Actually there is one setup I use which requires 7 stabs :p
But for serious armour tankers, they are a waste of slots, plain and simple.
------------------
The viewpoints expressed are my own, not necessarily those of my Corporation or Alliance. |
Kaeten
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Posted - 2006.02.28 14:23:00 -
[54]
Originally by: zincol
2x WCS is Standard PVP setup these days.
or not... (chickens standard pvp setup more like)
Latest Movie: RKK - Meatshield |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2006.02.28 15:14:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Cvuos
Warp scramblers are modules, not civil rights
 Dont be silly
Quote:
Whining about someone not fighting on your terms is the worst kind of whining
Whining is just whining, there is no scale
Quote:
Whining about someone whining about someone not fighting on their terms is perfectly ok
Your right its perfectly ok for an idiot to whine, and thats how you get away with it
You forgot to add that placing "thought" icons around badly thought out whines makes them seem more impressive
When you add it, I will quote it and state why that makes you look like a whining idiot.
And Wrangler > j00 -Eldo
I pwnt Wrangler - Tenacha |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2006.02.28 15:16:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
People used to whine so much about me using stabs in the old curse alliance days - now it is commonplace.
Anyway if u want to blame anyone for the current widespread use of wcs I guess I was the father of it.
But as been posted here and people have finally come to realise they dont gimp your setup enough to make a huge difference,tbey enable u to survive many fights u would otherwise have lost your ship in and most importantly are one of the few valid tactics that can be used against cowardly carebear blob squads.
Yes ginger, your the forefather of everything dumb and unsophisticated
And Wrangler > j00 -Eldo
I pwnt Wrangler - Tenacha |
Cvuos
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Posted - 2006.02.28 16:24:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
You forgot to add that placing "thought" icons around badly thought out whines makes them seem more impressive
You're right, I did forget that. Thanks for mentioning.
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Crusher166
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Posted - 2006.02.28 16:33:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
Originally by: Ginger Magician
People used to whine so much about me using stabs in the old curse alliance days - now it is commonplace.
Anyway if u want to blame anyone for the current widespread use of wcs I guess I was the father of it.
But as been posted here and people have finally come to realise they dont gimp your setup enough to make a huge difference,tbey enable u to survive many fights u would otherwise have lost your ship in and most importantly are one of the few valid tactics that can be used against cowardly carebear blob squads.
Yes ginger, your the forefather of everything dumb and unsophisticated
Quoted for truth.
I use WCS on almost every setup of mine... it just means I can take on more enemies at once while in enemy territory.
Without warp core stabs there would be much less actual pvp enguagement because the stakes are far too high if you want to fight anything near equal or favourable odds. Therefore if WCS were nerfed then people would go in gank fleets more to make sure the chances were on their side.
I don't think any real PVPer wants to "gank" because that hardly shows skill whereas fights are much more fun even if no one dies as a result of the engagement. However, I wouldn't let someone pass just because they were outnumbered either. I always seem to get this "STOP GANKING INDIES man" thing from peaple where i hunt, but I'm only an oppertunist who strives to have a good, fair fight when i can.
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My Video: Start wearing purple while being very nasty |
Hellspawn666
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Posted - 2006.02.28 16:50:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
People used to whine so much about me using stabs in the old curse alliance days - now it is commonplace.
Anyway if u want to blame anyone for the current widespread use of wcs I guess I was the father of it.
But as been posted here and people have finally come to realise they dont gimp your setup enough to make a huge difference,tbey enable u to survive many fights u would otherwise have lost your ship in and most importantly are one of the few valid tactics that can be used against cowardly carebear blob squads.
You used to fly in CFS space ganking newbies, thats when i got a sight of your ego shouting look at me i own. Since i was also hunting down there, used to be the perfect hunting ground due to the mass amount of npcing apocs... However i did then fight your raven which not only had no mwd but also didnt have any wcs, so you actually came up with the wcs idea far after itd been used by not only myself but by anyone who had flown with me and im sure by many others across eve so give us a break on the "LOOK I STARTED IT SPEECH".
Now to the rest of this thread which is simply just spam... Please oh god just stay to one thread the devs dont care that you lose one or two targets to wcs... the truth is that not that many people still use them. I know this since out of the hundread or so people i fight per month maybe 4 have wcs?
This isnt really a problem there already is a balance, 1v1 the guy with wcs will lose anless the other guy is a noob. Not only that to catch people with stabs is easier then to fit them. By this i mean warp scrambler = 30 cpu and holds +2 strength, thats equivalent to 2 wcs i.e 60 cpu plus 2 low slots to one med slot. That is the balance, admitally warp scrams use cap but anless your flying a frig the cap use isnt harsh enough to cause you trouble. Stop making somthing out of nothing.
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Alexia Sonique
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Posted - 2006.02.28 16:52:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Lorth
Not to mention thier counter, scramblers. Use cap, have a very limited range, well under the tracking of many guns. Require a lock, a mid slot (more important then lows) etc etc. Not to mention they don't actually counter stabs, in many cases, as you need stabs +1 worht of strenght to stop a ship.
Med slot on an apoc is more important then 2 lows? Since when?
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2006.02.28 18:03:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Alexia Sonique
Originally by: Lorth
Not to mention thier counter, scramblers. Use cap, have a very limited range, well under the tracking of many guns. Require a lock, a mid slot (more important then lows) etc etc. Not to mention they don't actually counter stabs, in many cases, as you need stabs +1 worht of strenght to stop a ship.
Med slot on an apoc is more important then 2 lows? Since when?
Why pic an apoc when most stab packers are ravens/scorps as they have limited low slot use.
I tend to armur tank mine, but most people dont armour tank caldari
And Wrangler > j00 -Eldo
I pwnt Wrangler - Tenacha |
Crusher166
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Posted - 2006.02.28 18:10:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
Originally by: Alexia Sonique
Originally by: Lorth
Not to mention thier counter, scramblers. Use cap, have a very limited range, well under the tracking of many guns. Require a lock, a mid slot (more important then lows) etc etc. Not to mention they don't actually counter stabs, in many cases, as you need stabs +1 worht of strenght to stop a ship.
Med slot on an apoc is more important then 2 lows? Since when?
Why pic an apoc when most stab packers are ravens/scorps as they have limited low slot use.
I tend to armur tank mine, but most people dont armour tank caldari
When I look for ships to fly warpcorestabability is not the primary feature I look for. Using caldari ships is good for WCS whereas on apocs it is harder but still workable.
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My Video: Start wearing purple while being very nasty |
Unuthiel
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Posted - 2006.02.28 18:16:00 -
[63]
Quote:
WCS are a losing strat. When you fit them you might as well say, I'm not going to win the fight.
Or, you might be saying "I'm flying a hauler, and fighting is not my objective at the moment, therefore, I'm setup to be able to accomplish my present goal of getting to my destination with my cargo" Yeesh.
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Ginger Magician
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Posted - 2006.02.28 18:42:00 -
[64]
Well I always fit wcs and I have the most solo kills in EVE history.Its more a case of having to actually due to always being outnumbered except when they dont expect it.
The fact is I am uber skilled and uber smart in my tactics.Take a look at the new dev blog from Oveur regarding skillpoints.
I'll just say that there are not too many players with more than me currently playing eve if his facts are correct which I'm sure they are.
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Crusher166
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Posted - 2006.02.28 18:57:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
Well I always fit wcs and I have the most solo kills in EVE history.Its more a case of having to actually due to always being outnumbered except when they dont expect it.
The fact is I am uber skilled and uber smart in my tactics.Take a look at the new dev blog from Oveur regarding skillpoints.
I'll just say that there are not too many players with more than me currently playing eve if his facts are correct which I'm sure they are.
you are so right!!!!!
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My Video: Start wearing purple while being very nasty |
Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.02.28 19:45:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Lorth
Not to mention thier counter, scramblers. Use cap
Wow not a whole 4 energy that's reduced by skills more?
Quote:
have a very limited range, well under the tracking of many guns. Require a lock,
So scramblers should be balanced off Lorths gun selection for close range combat? Umm ok, maybe you shouldn't be using gunnery for close range snaring and keep to your range and have someone else tackling. Why should your ship do both scrambling and elite damage at insane ranges just so Lorth can scramble instead of disrupt. Ships do have some what of a role. Fit to fight.
Requiring a lock to scramble/disrupt isn't that big of a deal. If they keep you from jamming then the WCS itself is useless like your Warp Scrambler/Disruptor. However there is warp bubbles ect that don't need a lock. That's if you're in 0.0
Quote:
a mid slot (more important then lows) etc etc.
Mid slot is important to shield tanking ships just like lows are important to armor tanking ships. Throwing a WCS on a apocalypse will gimp the tank abilities. It is very important. Just like using more than want Warp scrambler is a major sacrifice for shield tanking ships. So mid slot is not more important than lows because of your playing style.
Quote:
Not to mention they don't actually counter stabs, in many cases, as you need stabs +1 worht of strenght to stop a ship.
Warp Scrambler/Disruptors don't counter stabs what? Is this Lorth? Someone has +3 strength and you use a warp scrambler on them. You have countered both stabs. Now the ship warp strength is weaker. Not a estimated but a fact one more scrambler will jam that ship. You did your purpose you weakened the pupolsion system. CCP never said warp scrambling was a 100% jam tool. Like ECM and tracking disruptors you use those EW tools to weaken the opponents ship stats. Warp strength is indeed a ship stat. Think a little.
Quote:
Not to mention, being able to fit out your entire lows with stabs means there's not a single set up in the game that can reliably counter it.
6 Point stiletto is a reliable setup to use for tackling. A Raven with 4xShield Tanking and 2xWarp Scrambler is a reliable setup. Do I need to go into ecm scorp setups with x amount of warp scramblers? Sure they're weaker but no they don't suck to the point where a WCS fitted ship would eat them. Countering your opponent you know?
Quote:
The solution most propossed here is, 'bring more friends' Well tbh, thats the stupidest way to balance a game
Which is true for solo balance not group balance like a lot of mmorpgs do. I think it's stupid too but then again grouped ganking ect is very common on EVE too. Hence the usage of WCS's Lorth... Ironic your peeps do a lot of that too.
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Commander Nikolas
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Posted - 2006.02.28 20:14:00 -
[67]
#1 Pirates don't like getting ganked, they fit WCS so they can warp out before the full gank squad arrives.
#2 Pirate hunters don't like their prey getting away so they have to counter the use of WCS... and the gank squad gets bigger
When I first started PvPing in eve you could actually fight pirates 1 vs 1 and kill them. Now they are all fitting 4x+ WCS or have switched to AFs and Ceptors. Pirates in eve have become very skidish... How do you kill a pirate now? Well you need a covert ops, a stilleto with 3x +2s, and then damage/Ewar.
You have so many problems to deal with. You need to catch them completly by suprise because if more then 1 non-miner enters system they will dock their whole fleet. Once you get their location with the covert you need to get your primary fully scrammed before local fills up or they will insta dock/jump or log in space. If they are near a station you have to wait until they agro and get a BS to MWD into them to knock them away from station.
In general I think CCP needs to compleltly remove pirates main tactics...
#1 If you log off in space your ship should stay in space... seriously that is just retarded (logicaly) and the current time limits are very strict for probing! At the very least increase it to 15min for unagroed ships and 30min for agroed.
#2 Increase the re-dock/jump time to 2 minutes for agression. With the new tanking pirates are able to agro and redock without issue (esspecially in the raven).
#3 Increase the CPU need of WCS drastically. Ovbiously haulers and travelling BSs etc could still fit them but it would make it much harder to fit them on combat ships.
#4 Remove instas and introduce a mid slot module "navigation computer" that would allow you to land closer to objects then 15km (and have it apply to gang warps). It would be fine if with 4x of the module you landed within insta jump/dock range everytime.
Yeah, I like skirmish warfare but a skirmishing raven? Isn't that a little out of place for a battleship? Logging off in space? Where does the ship go!? The whole undock shoot re-dock?
Pirates can say anything they like about what I have said but seriously wouldn't it be nice if those changes were made and EVE PvP was something other then Pv..."where did they go?"
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Cvuos
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Posted - 2006.02.28 20:25:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Commander Nikolas
# Well you need a covert ops, a stilleto with 3x +2s, and then damage/Ewar.
That's 10x more fun than simply out-damaging each other.
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Archilies
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Posted - 2006.03.01 02:38:00 -
[69]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Originally by: Archilies
Theres nothing wrong with using stabs, their an important part of eve , and an important part of ship set ups. for those that say their for wimps, remember:
'It's better to run, and come back to fight another day than to drop dead like a 4 horned donkey'
Sun Tzu
nullMy own version of his statement
Ya it'll be fun when you do come back to fight them and you are close to killing them then they warp away
All good things come to those who wait
EECC Recruitment Thread |
TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2006.03.01 09:46:00 -
[70]
stabs = good.
can't we all just get along.
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Everyone is Entitled to thier own opinion, Its just yours stinks ! |
Diicc Tater
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Posted - 2006.03.01 09:57:00 -
[71]
Use more scramblers then...
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skedders
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Posted - 2006.03.01 10:39:00 -
[72]
I need to ask a question
I dont camp :) lol
what is the point of a sniper using stabs ?
I mean ya if you have an inty or somthing right?
here is my problem, if i were going to be a pirate I would follow these rules
1. I have a 225+/-km sniper, there fore nothing should get within 100+/-km of me before I know im not gonna kill them
2. If they get within 100+/-km, im not hitting them good to begin with, and i have 100+/-km to warp away (im facing my SS)
3. I would never camp on a lane, I would be at least 200+/-km from the lane (gate to gate lane)
4. I have 0 defence, but I should not need it, with lows giving me damage mods and range modifiers I should be able to down almost anyone if not 100+/-km rule :)
5. I would never camp a gate long enough for somone to get my BMs and therefore at the most would still have 130+/-km to spot a tackler
so my question is, what is the point in sniper gate campers using WCS? lol
I love WCS I use them alot in pvp, and have ****ed a few tacklers off in doing so :)
but I just don't get why somone would be stupid enough to let an enemy ship get within range to tackle 
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tiller
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Posted - 2006.03.01 11:47:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Kaeten
Originally by: zincol
2x WCS is Standard PVP setup these days.
or not... (chickens standard pvp setup more like)
I guess then you fall into one of the following...
1. your stinking rich and can afford to lose a ship everytime you fly it.
2. you fly in a blob so will never meet anyone with a chance of killing you.
3. you spend all your eve time in jita docked
4. you stay in areas that are not infested with pirate scum
5. you fly such cheap ships that you don't care if they go boom
6. you don't actively PVP, in fact avoid it at all cost
I'm 99% sure you must be in one of these groups...
Fly your unstabbed ship to the system where I am operating and sit near a gate for a couple of mins 
The fact is, if you PVP alot solo, then without stabs you will die alot unless your just dam lucky. I'd say once a wk I get scrammed at a gate when I need to leave. As I'm popping stuff for just fun mostly, the isk just don't add up to replace expensive ships that often.
And to the guys who'll say, don't fly stuff you can't afford to lose... well, I find flying a expensive ship a real buzz. Kinda adds to the excitement as your being torn apart by multiple targets and sentrys.
click me for free forum smiley tool www.smileypad.com |
Karistis
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Posted - 2006.03.01 13:08:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
Well I always fit wcs and I have the most solo kills in EVE history.Its more a case of having to actually due to always being outnumbered except when they dont expect it.
The fact is I am uber skilled and uber smart in my tactics.Take a look at the new dev blog from Oveur regarding skillpoints.
I'll just say that there are not too many players with more than me currently playing eve if his facts are correct which I'm sure they are.
LOL
I almost fell out of my chair reading this one. Egos ftl.
_________________________________________
2005.01.17 22:04:22 combat Chackle [PUSY] perfectly runs from you, wrecking for 1500 cowardice. |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2006.03.01 13:25:00 -
[75]
Originally by: skedders
I need to ask a question
I dont camp :) lol
what is the point of a sniper using stabs ?
I mean ya if you have an inty or somthing right?
here is my problem, if i were going to be a pirate I would follow these rules
1. I have a 225+/-km sniper, there fore nothing should get within 100+/-km of me before I know im not gonna kill them
2. If they get within 100+/-km, im not hitting them good to begin with, and i have 100+/-km to warp away (im facing my SS)
3. I would never camp on a lane, I would be at least 200+/-km from the lane (gate to gate lane)
4. I have 0 defence, but I should not need it, with lows giving me damage mods and range modifiers I should be able to down almost anyone if not 100+/-km rule :)
5. I would never camp a gate long enough for somone to get my BMs and therefore at the most would still have 130+/-km to spot a tackler
so my question is, what is the point in sniper gate campers using WCS? lol
I love WCS I use them alot in pvp, and have ****ed a few tacklers off in doing so :)
but I just don't get why somone would be stupid enough to let an enemy ship get within range to tackle
People warping in on top of you, by using covert ops
And Wrangler > j00 -Eldo
I pwnt Wrangler - Tenacha |
Sun Ra
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Posted - 2006.03.01 13:26:00 -
[76]
Yup ive attacked other pirates and who've magically warp away too, personally i think a pvp ship with stabs is far worse than a npc/mining ship with them.
For me i dont use stabs cos eve pvp is all about risk, if you want risk free pvp u may aswell play wow.
Seems to be an annoying trend in eve now days a)fit stabs on every ship b)fit ecm on it too
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2006.03.01 13:35:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Sun Ra
Yup ive attacked other pirates and who've magically warp away too, personally i think a pvp ship with stabs is far worse than a npc/mining ship with them.
For me i dont use stabs cos eve pvp is all about risk, if you want risk free pvp u may aswell play wow.
Seems to be an annoying trend in eve now days a)fit stabs on every ship b)fit ecm on it too
Did I not tell you about the nossing, jamming wcs packing dom I killed last week? That made eve fun
And Wrangler > j00 -Eldo
I pwnt Wrangler - Tenacha |
Commander Nikolas
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Posted - 2006.03.01 15:50:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
Originally by: Sun Ra
Yup ive attacked other pirates and who've magically warp away too, personally i think a pvp ship with stabs is far worse than a npc/mining ship with them.
For me i dont use stabs cos eve pvp is all about risk, if you want risk free pvp u may aswell play wow.
Seems to be an annoying trend in eve now days a)fit stabs on every ship b)fit ecm on it too
Did I not tell you about the nossing, jamming wcs packing dom I killed last week? That made eve fun
lol, The Navy Mega is a nice ship :). I am guessing 2x stabs on it? Hopefully you will float back down around Esmes and I will get to find out.
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2006.03.01 15:58:00 -
[79]
I believe I already posted saying I dont fit stabs
And Wrangler > j00 -Eldo
I pwnt Wrangler - Tenacha |
Lorth
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Posted - 2006.03.02 01:27:00 -
[80]
Quote:
Wow not a whole 4 energy that's reduced by skills more?
Try running a 20km disrupture on a frig, or even a cruiser. Still it takes cap, wcs do not, and regardless of the energy costs it just doesn't seem ballanced. Especially when you consider in many cases your using multipile scramblers.
Quote:
So scramblers should be balanced off Lorths gun selection for close range combat? Umm ok, maybe you shouldn't be using gunnery for close range snaring and keep to your range and have someone else tackling. Why should your ship do both scrambling and elite damage at insane ranges just so Lorth can scramble instead of disrupt. Ships do have some what of a role. Fit to fight.
Requiring a lock to scramble/disrupt isn't that big of a deal. If they keep you from jamming then the WCS itself is useless like your Warp Scrambler/Disruptor. However there is warp bubbles ect that don't need a lock. That's if you're in 0.0
Could you explain to me, how in the world having two people in order to stop one person is ballanced? While I'm certain you can come up with some half arsed sarcasic reasoning to explain your possition, at the end of the day scramblers use cap, and have a limited range, WCS do not. No amount of flaming me changes that.
Quote:
Warp Scrambler/Disruptors don't counter stabs what? Is this Lorth? Someone has +3 strength and you use a warp scrambler on them. You have countered both stabs. Now the ship warp strength is weaker. Not a estimated but a fact one more scrambler will jam that ship. You did your purpose you weakened the pupolsion system. CCP never said warp scrambling was a 100% jam tool. Like ECM and tracking disruptors you use those EW tools to weaken the opponents ship stats. Warp strength is indeed a ship stat. Think a little.
Perhaps you really need to think this through, before flaming me. We'll go back to simple math here, and maybe you can understand it. A target has 1 stab, there for you need 2 points of scambling on him. So, for example if its a BS fight, you need to devote 2 mid slots to stop him. We could go on and on, adding more srabs and more scramblers, but I hoe you get the point. Come again and tell me how this is fair. Or perhaps you could tell me how you need to weaken your opponents stats? Because last time I check the propolsion strenght stat is simply a hold over from the ewar changes, and not used for anythign at all.
Quote:
6 Point stiletto is a reliable setup to use for tackling. A Raven with 4xShield Tanking and 2xWarp Scrambler is a reliable setup. Do I need to go into ecm scorp setups with x amount of warp scramblers? Sure they're weaker but no they don't suck to the point where a WCS fitted ship would eat them. Countering your opponent you know?
Here we go again with the bring a friend with a stilleto. Though you also forgot to mention that a stilleto won't stop an apoc, arma, mega, phoon, domi, or tempest, as well as a few HAC's and elite cruisers. So where's the argument now, a team of 2 people, one set up to counter stab users, in the best possible ship to do it with, and you can only stop 2 of the 8 BS's in the game, assuming they are stabed out tottaly.
Further, having to resort to numbers of pilots, in order to win an argument on balancing, is just dumb. When it takes 2 or more pilots, set up specifically to stop a single pilot, we can only infer that said pilots set up is unbalanced. I really don't understand how someone can argue other wise, when they know, for a fact, that there is no one ship that can stop the majority of max stabed BS's out there. Great an 8 point scorp can stop most of them, but who in thier right mind can say that its a reliable counter to the problem?
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skedders
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Posted - 2006.03.02 04:20:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
Originally by: skedders
I need to ask a question
I dont camp :) lol
what is the point of a sniper using stabs ?
I mean ya if you have an inty or somthing right?
here is my problem, if i were going to be a pirate I would follow these rules
1. I have a 225+/-km sniper, there fore nothing should get within 100+/-km of me before I know im not gonna kill them
2. If they get within 100+/-km, im not hitting them good to begin with, and i have 100+/-km to warp away (im facing my SS)
3. I would never camp on a lane, I would be at least 200+/-km from the lane (gate to gate lane)
4. I have 0 defence, but I should not need it, with lows giving me damage mods and range modifiers I should be able to down almost anyone if not 100+/-km rule :)
5. I would never camp a gate long enough for somone to get my BMs and therefore at the most would still have 130+/-km to spot a tackler
so my question is, what is the point in sniper gate campers using WCS? lol
I love WCS I use them alot in pvp, and have ****ed a few tacklers off in doing so :)
but I just don't get why somone would be stupid enough to let an enemy ship get within range to tackle
People warping in on top of you, by using covert ops
just asking here, but you mean pirates are so scared of covert ops that that is the only reason to fit WCS?
but anyways
1. I already said I would not stay around long enough for somone to get a BM or my location, there are 5,000 systems in eve, im pretty sure that even 1,000 gates is enough to keep me killing, while not staying in 1 spot very long
2. have not tried it yet, but wouldn't 5 ogres quikly take care of a covert ops ship once it decloaks?, I mean with good drone skills of course (4 ogres took a mega down to 15% armor in about 30-45 seconds, im pretty sure they could handle a CO)
what else?
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tiller
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Posted - 2006.03.02 06:42:00 -
[82]
Edited by: tiller on 02/03/2006 06:42:37
Originally by: skedders
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
Originally by: skedders
I need to ask a question
I dont camp :) lol
what is the point of a sniper using stabs ?
I mean ya if you have an inty or somthing right?
here is my problem, if i were going to be a pirate I would follow these rules
1. I have a 225+/-km sniper, there fore nothing should get within 100+/-km of me before I know im not gonna kill the2. If they get within 100+/-km, im not hitting them good to begin with, and i have 100+/-km to warp away (im facing my SS)
3. I would never camp on a lane, I would be at least 200+/-km from the lane (gate to gate lane)
4. I have 0 defence, but I should not need it, with lows giving me damage mods and range modifiers I should be able to down almost anyone if not 100+/-km rule :)
5. I would never camp a gate long enough for somone to get my BMs and therefore at the most would still have 130+/-km to spot a tackler
so my question is, what is the point in sniper gate campers using WCS? lol
I love WCS I use them alot in pvp, and have ****ed a few tacklers off in doing so :)
but I just don't get why somone would be stupid enough to let an enemy ship get within range to tackle
People warping in on top of you, by using covert ops
just asking here, but you mean pirates are so scared of covert ops that that is the only reason to fit WCS?
but anyways
1. I already said I would not stay around long enough for somone to get a BM or my location, there are 5,000 systems in eve, im pretty sure that even 1,000 gates is enough to keep me killing, while not staying in 1 spot very long
2. have not tried it yet, but wouldn't 5 ogres quikly take care of a covert ops ship once it decloaks?, I mean with good drone skills of course (4 ogres took a mega down to 15% armor in about 30-45 seconds, im pretty sure they could handle a CO)
what else?
1. From experience you just don't get the kills if you keep moving about. Find a busy gate and camp it.. warping about just makes you miss nice targets. Murpheys Law of gate camps states when you warp to another gate a hauler will jump in full of morphite at the gate you just left. :)
2. The cov ops is always used as the warp in point for the anti rat blob. Maybe if the cov ops guy is brave he will scram you, but they don't even have to decloak tbh. They just mark your position and wait for the tacklers / dmg dealers.
I don't like sniping, the main problem is you can't take bigger targets really. It still has it's place for anti hauler / frig work and as a addition to a larger gate camp.
Now when do we see some nice officer stabs in the game... wtb blah blah modified stab with 2 strength
click me for free forum smiley tool www.smileypad.com |
Kuolematon
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Posted - 2006.03.02 07:02:00 -
[83]
Originally by: tiller
Alot of PVP skill in eve boils down to how brave you are and knowing when a fight is hopeless or you have a chance of winning. If you have a chance of winning a fight, stay and fight... if not just leave, there is no point dieing for nothing unless your either dumb or rich.
Even if I hate to agree with worthless piwates like you, this statement is so correct that everyone should understand this. When you go to frigate op in 0.0 with frigates, you tend to try find lone battleships or cruisers to gank, not to seek "fair" fights. When I didn't know this I was naive to assume that people DO indeed fair fights in EVE. Now I know better.
Unnerf Amarr!!
'.. in your chase after the imaginary "endgame fun"... which actually doesn't exist.' j0sephine |
Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2006.03.04 18:40:00 -
[84]
Unerf my damage mod stacking and I'll drop the stabs I use on my tempest for gyro's, that said I thought one of the aims of the stacking nerf was to limit gankgeddons, now we see more people fitting stabs and we still see gankgeddons, makes you wonder......
I'd also like to add that bs's are the only ship I fit stabs to, nething smaller and u run the risk of gimping your setup beyond repair.
Just as a side note too many people think not fitting stabs is a sign of uber l33tness pvp skills, I say bollox to that and have a glass stomach, at least that way with your head stuck so far up your own @rse you can still see where your going.
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Evil Edna
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Posted - 2006.03.04 19:07:00 -
[85]
yup, with module stacking nerf there are alot of BS setups that you can very easily stick a couple of WCS into.
fitting stabs on smaller ships is pointless though, you really will make whats probably quite a useless ship into a totally useless ship.
case in point being a guy i fought 1v1 cerberus vs deimos, he had stabs on and warped away in half armour after getting totally roasted. his rubbish ship was made far worse by his stabs.
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DenBrown
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Posted - 2006.10.08 09:53:00 -
[86]
READ THIS!
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