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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Khador Vess
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
138
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 11:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
St Rannik wrote:Khador Vess wrote:This makes no sense to me, If you undock a ship you've already lost it you just don't know it yet. If your would-be attacker has the presence of mind to stop you e-warping by bumping you and can kill you how is this still an exploit? cause you can't do anything about it, you can't shoot back, can't light a cyno, can't slowboat away etc...
So? If someone has scanned down your e-warp spot and cant kill you before you are removed from space, and they have either the patience to wait for you to reconnect surely thats your problem.
Someone made clever use of a mechanic, someone else lost an expensive ship and now its an exploit is how this looks to me...
Go figure I used to have a forum sig, but CCP SocksFour stole it.... |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Shadow Cartel
651
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 11:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Question arises, how would a pilot in that situation verify this properly to you guys?
/c
By crying like a ***** on Reddit after they lost it naturally. All bs aside ewarp NEEDS to be changed period. This is something CCP has known about and was addressed before by other entities and was simply ignored or given conflicting information.
Thanks for the clarification CCP Dolan. Visit my blog for all the latest in jeers and tears as well as news at http://hoistthecolors.org |
Kashmyta
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
72
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 11:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Khador Vess wrote:St Rannik wrote:Khador Vess wrote:This makes no sense to me, If you undock a ship you've already lost it you just don't know it yet. If your would-be attacker has the presence of mind to stop you e-warping by bumping you and can kill you how is this still an exploit? cause you can't do anything about it, you can't shoot back, can't light a cyno, can't slowboat away etc... So? If someone has scanned down your e-warp spot and cant kill you before you are removed from space, and they have either the patience to wait for you to reconnect surely thats your problem. Someone made clever use of a mechanic, someone else lost an expensive ship and now its an exploit is how this looks to me... Go figure
Forget the first part of your comment. This is specifically about the logging in part. Log out safely without any form of aggression, in this example safely in a pos shield and then being bumped at your e-warp spot when you log in again. |
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CCP Dolan
C C P C C P Alliance
719
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Posted - 2013.11.29 11:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Question arises, how would a pilot in that situation verify this properly to you guys?
/c
We can very clearly see this in our logs. Just let us know if something like this has happened to you and our records will do all the verifying (although fraps or screen shots certainly wouldn't hurt). CCP Dolan | Community Representative
Twitter: @CCPDolan
Gooby pls |
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Sethur Blackcoat
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.11.29 11:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:[We can very clearly see this in our logs. Just let us know if something like this has happened to you and our records will do all the verifying (although fraps or screen shots certainly wouldn't hurt). Are you seriously claiming your logs actually show something. |
Tara Read
The Generic Pirate Corporation Shadow Cartel
651
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 11:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Bumping a ship in order to get it stuck in emergency warp alignment limbo when its pilot logs in is now considered an exploit.
Ships undergoing emergency warp upon appearing in space have no means to activate modules, cancel warp, or otherwise defend themselves during this period; they cannot be stopped by any warp disruption mechanic. Bumping them during this period renders the ship in question utterly helpless, against the intention of the game mechanics.
Note: GÇóThis does not apply to pilots who get legitimately aggressed under normal game mechanics, preventing their ships from disappearing from space. Use safe logoff whenever possible. GÇóThis specifically applies to those pilots who disappear from space after logoff and appear again upon logging in.
Thank you for your attention.
Does CCP have any plans in the future to change ewarp mechanics or to fix logging in and out of pos's safely? This seems like the most reasonable and practical course of action.
Visit my blog for all the latest in jeers and tears as well as news at http://hoistthecolors.org |
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CCP Dolan
C C P C C P Alliance
719
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Posted - 2013.11.29 11:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sethur Blackcoat wrote: Are you seriously claiming your logs actually show something.
Our logs have improved over time :) CCP Dolan | Community Representative
Twitter: @CCPDolan
Gooby pls |
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Khador Vess
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
138
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 11:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kashmyta wrote:Khador Vess wrote:St Rannik wrote:Khador Vess wrote:This makes no sense to me, If you undock a ship you've already lost it you just don't know it yet. If your would-be attacker has the presence of mind to stop you e-warping by bumping you and can kill you how is this still an exploit? cause you can't do anything about it, you can't shoot back, can't light a cyno, can't slowboat away etc... So? If someone has scanned down your e-warp spot and cant kill you before you are removed from space, and they have either the patience to wait for you to reconnect surely thats your problem. Someone made clever use of a mechanic, someone else lost an expensive ship and now its an exploit is how this looks to me... Go figure Forget the first part of your comment. This is specifically about the logging in part. Log out safely without any form of aggression, in this example safely in a pos shield and then being bumped at your e-warp spot when you log in again.
Ok, so my first part was not clear, i did not mean that someone had agression at logoff or were necessarily even agressed before being removed form space, im jsut saying that the mechanic is that you e-warp to a spot and are removed form space after a certain amount of time, this is usually not enough time to kill a ship.
If someone grabs your e-warp spot as you warp out from a pos shield i still dont see why its an exploit to prevent your e-warp back in... you cant activate mods... fine, you are completely helpless... fine... thats the way its always worked before.
Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit. I used to have a forum sig, but CCP SocksFour stole it.... |
BigSako
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
92
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:You just made a ship almost impossible to kill even more harder. Cmn CCP wth are you thinking?
Decisions are what makes EVE a so beautiful game. You want your caps tanky with slaves, go ahead but they are less agile and slower. You want your capital ships not probable? Than go with nano, stabilizers and nomad set.
CCP always and i repeat always caters to the big entities.
you clearly dont understand how this exploit works. |
BigSako
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
92
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Question arises, how would a pilot in that situation verify this properly to you guys?
/c As always, the logs will show nothing and petitions will just get escalated until nobody answeres. It's CCPs business strategy I guess. |
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Infineon SE
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.11.29 12:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Are those "bumping guys" getting permanently banned for exploit use? |
BigSako
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
93
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
Khador Vess wrote:Kashmyta wrote:Khador Vess wrote:St Rannik wrote:Khador Vess wrote:This makes no sense to me, If you undock a ship you've already lost it you just don't know it yet. If your would-be attacker has the presence of mind to stop you e-warping by bumping you and can kill you how is this still an exploit? cause you can't do anything about it, you can't shoot back, can't light a cyno, can't slowboat away etc... So? If someone has scanned down your e-warp spot and cant kill you before you are removed from space, and they have either the patience to wait for you to reconnect surely thats your problem. Someone made clever use of a mechanic, someone else lost an expensive ship and now its an exploit is how this looks to me... Go figure Forget the first part of your comment. This is specifically about the logging in part. Log out safely without any form of aggression, in this example safely in a pos shield and then being bumped at your e-warp spot when you log in again. Ok, so my first part was not clear, i did not mean that someone had agression at logoff or were necessarily even agressed before being removed form space, im jsut saying that the mechanic is that you e-warp to a spot and are removed form space after a certain amount of time, this is usually not enough time to kill a ship. If someone grabs your e-warp spot as you warp out from a pos shield i still dont see why its an exploit to prevent your e-warp back in... you cant activate mods... fine, you are completely helpless... fine... thats the way its always worked before. Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit.
you also clearly dont understand how the mechanics work.
You can NOT probe the emergency warp OUT spot of somebody. Well you can, but it won't help you because the ship will just disappear (unless it logged out with aggression).
The spot to spawn in, is a completely different spot. The spot is being picked randomly at exactly 1 Million Kilometer from the log out spot (so in most cases for supercapitals, a POS). It will with certainty not be the same spot you disappeared after your emergency warp out.
Now in this case, titans and supers take (depending on fit and pilot skills) between 11 seconds and 40 seconds to be fully aligned to enter warp, which is more then enough time to probe and warp a bumping ship to it.
Battleships and below will literally align in 15 seconds, which is NOT enough time to be probed down and warped onto. So your statement "Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit" is absolutely wrong, because noone has ever lost a NON shiny ship to this game mechanic (and I consider carriers, freighters and above as shinys).
To re-iterate what has been said: When you log in (and you didnt have aggression before), you can NOT be warp scrambled NOT be bubbled (you can, but you will just warp out of bubbles) NOT cancel your warp NOT jump to a cyno NOT cloak NOT defend yourself properly
I have tried this out like 2 years ago already, when I was fishing a titan, and I probed it down in time and fleet warped a dictor to it. The titan just warped out of the bubble - and done. As a matter of fact, this "mechanic" has been known long enough and many plans have been made to kill titans/supercarriers in exactly this way, and most of the time people did rise their opinion on how this is an exploit. Another matter of fact: There has already been a case like this, when a supercarrier/titan was tackled and the aggressors were claiming an exploit when the super/titan warped out of the bubble. This was even recorded and put on youtube, though I can't find that. There was a huge post and uproar about an exploit at that time.
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BigSako
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
93
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Infineon SE wrote:Are those "bumping guys" getting permanently banned for exploit use?
Not sure, as it has only been declared an exploit today.
But sure enough I know some people in the CFC that already tried to exploit it (but failed at doing it). |
St Rannik
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
33
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Posted - 2013.11.29 12:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
Khador Vess wrote: So? If someone has scanned down your e-warp spot and cant kill you before you are removed from space, and they have either the patience to wait for you to reconnect surely thats your problem.
Someone made clever use of a mechanic, someone else lost an expensive ship and now its an exploit is how this looks to me...
Go figure
it's not the intended mechanic, simple as that
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Khador Vess
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
138
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
BigSako wrote: you also clearly dont understand how the mechanics work.
You can NOT probe the emergency warp OUT spot of somebody. Well you can, but it won't help you because the ship will just disappear (unless it logged out with aggression).
The spot to spawn in, is a completely different spot. The spot is being picked randomly at exactly 1 Million Kilometer from the log out spot (so in most cases for supercapitals, a POS). It will with certainty not be the same spot you disappeared after your emergency warp out.
Now in this case, titans and supers take (depending on fit and pilot skills) between 11 seconds and 40 seconds to be fully aligned to enter warp, which is more then enough time to probe and warp a bumping ship to it.
Battleships and below will literally align in 15 seconds, which is NOT enough time to be probed down and warped onto. So your statement "Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit" is absolutely wrong, because noone has ever lost a NON shiny ship to this game mechanic (and I consider carriers, freighters and above as shinys).
To re-iterate what has been said: When you log in (and you didnt have aggression before), you can NOT be warp scrambled NOT be bubbled (you can, but you will just warp out of bubbles) NOT cancel your warp NOT jump to a cyno NOT cloak NOT defend yourself properly
I have tried this out like 2 years ago already, when I was fishing a titan, and I probed it down in time and fleet warped a dictor to it. The titan just warped out of the bubble - and done. As a matter of fact, this "mechanic" has been known long enough and many plans have been made to kill titans/supercarriers in exactly this way, and most of the time people did rise their opinion on how this is an exploit. Another matter of fact: There has already been a case like this, when a supercarrier/titan was tackled and the aggressors were claiming an exploit when the super/titan warped out of the bubble. This was even recorded and put on youtube, though I can't find that. There was a huge post and uproar about an exploit at that time.
I didn't fully understand the very first PART of this, thanks for clearing that up however it still makes no difference though.
your ship is in space outside the pos, thats the mechanic of the e warp. Your ship gets killed because someone lays a trap, thats the long and short of it, shiny or not, someone planned and executed a trap well that is the long and short of it.
I used to have a forum sig, but CCP SocksFour stole it.... |
Koban Agalder
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
25
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
Khador Vess wrote:BigSako wrote: you also clearly dont understand how the mechanics work.
You can NOT probe the emergency warp OUT spot of somebody. Well you can, but it won't help you because the ship will just disappear (unless it logged out with aggression).
The spot to spawn in, is a completely different spot. The spot is being picked randomly at exactly 1 Million Kilometer from the log out spot (so in most cases for supercapitals, a POS). It will with certainty not be the same spot you disappeared after your emergency warp out.
Now in this case, titans and supers take (depending on fit and pilot skills) between 11 seconds and 40 seconds to be fully aligned to enter warp, which is more then enough time to probe and warp a bumping ship to it.
Battleships and below will literally align in 15 seconds, which is NOT enough time to be probed down and warped onto. So your statement "Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit" is absolutely wrong, because noone has ever lost a NON shiny ship to this game mechanic (and I consider carriers, freighters and above as shinys).
To re-iterate what has been said: When you log in (and you didnt have aggression before), you can NOT be warp scrambled NOT be bubbled (you can, but you will just warp out of bubbles) NOT cancel your warp NOT jump to a cyno NOT cloak NOT defend yourself properly
I have tried this out like 2 years ago already, when I was fishing a titan, and I probed it down in time and fleet warped a dictor to it. The titan just warped out of the bubble - and done. As a matter of fact, this "mechanic" has been known long enough and many plans have been made to kill titans/supercarriers in exactly this way, and most of the time people did rise their opinion on how this is an exploit. Another matter of fact: There has already been a case like this, when a supercarrier/titan was tackled and the aggressors were claiming an exploit when the super/titan warped out of the bubble. This was even recorded and put on youtube, though I can't find that. There was a huge post and uproar about an exploit at that time.
I didn't fully understand the very first PART of this, thanks for clearing that up however it still makes no difference though. your ship is in space outside the pos, thats the mechanic of the e warp. Your ship gets killed because someone lays a trap, thats the long and short of it, shiny or not, someone planned and executed a trap well... It's a exploit of broken mechanic as game MECHANIC itself forbids you from taking any defense action! James Arget for CSM 8!-áhttp://csm.fcftw.org-á |
Kashmyta
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
72
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
Khador Vess wrote:BigSako wrote: you also clearly dont understand how the mechanics work.
You can NOT probe the emergency warp OUT spot of somebody. Well you can, but it won't help you because the ship will just disappear (unless it logged out with aggression).
The spot to spawn in, is a completely different spot. The spot is being picked randomly at exactly 1 Million Kilometer from the log out spot (so in most cases for supercapitals, a POS). It will with certainty not be the same spot you disappeared after your emergency warp out.
Now in this case, titans and supers take (depending on fit and pilot skills) between 11 seconds and 40 seconds to be fully aligned to enter warp, which is more then enough time to probe and warp a bumping ship to it.
Battleships and below will literally align in 15 seconds, which is NOT enough time to be probed down and warped onto. So your statement "Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit" is absolutely wrong, because noone has ever lost a NON shiny ship to this game mechanic (and I consider carriers, freighters and above as shinys).
To re-iterate what has been said: When you log in (and you didnt have aggression before), you can NOT be warp scrambled NOT be bubbled (you can, but you will just warp out of bubbles) NOT cancel your warp NOT jump to a cyno NOT cloak NOT defend yourself properly
I have tried this out like 2 years ago already, when I was fishing a titan, and I probed it down in time and fleet warped a dictor to it. The titan just warped out of the bubble - and done. As a matter of fact, this "mechanic" has been known long enough and many plans have been made to kill titans/supercarriers in exactly this way, and most of the time people did rise their opinion on how this is an exploit. Another matter of fact: There has already been a case like this, when a supercarrier/titan was tackled and the aggressors were claiming an exploit when the super/titan warped out of the bubble. This was even recorded and put on youtube, though I can't find that. There was a huge post and uproar about an exploit at that time.
I didn't fully understand the very first PART of this, thanks for clearing that up, i thought the two spots were the same, they are not however it still makes no difference though. your ship is in space outside the pos, thats the mechanic of the e warp. Your ship gets killed because someone lays a trap, thats the long and short of it, shiny or not, someone planned and executed a trap well...
Again, you are missing the point, you are not supposed to be able to be tackled/bumped at the e-warp point, the mechanic is broken, and therefore use of the tactic an exploit.
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Kristoffon Ellecon
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
113
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
ITT: PL buttmad that it wasn't them that pulled this off and collected an epic amount of tears |
Phi X
Malevolent Intentions Dead Terrorists
3
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
i havent seen one tear here over this and certenly not from the pilot loosing the titan |
BigSako
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
93
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:ITT: PL buttmad that it wasn't them that pulled this off and collected an epic amount of tears
Yeah, sure :P |
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Vincent Gaines
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
554
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 13:06:00 -
[51] - Quote
BigSako wrote:
Battleships and below will literally align in 15 seconds, which is NOT enough time to be probed down and warped onto. So your statement "Someone lost a shiny ship and now suddenly its an exploit" is absolutely wrong, because noone has ever lost a NON shiny ship to this game mechanic (and I consider carriers, freighters and above as shinys).
When I was in TL and we were invaded by Polarized/N0MEX/etc they probed and killed an Orca who logged in after a safe logout. Shame our pilot never thought to see if it was petitionable... I believe he lost several bil. Not a diplo.-á
The above post was edited for spelling. |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
21
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Posted - 2013.11.29 13:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:ITT: PL buttmad that it wasn't them that pulled this off and collected an epic amount of tears
We knew it was possible but collectively came to the conclusion thatGÇÖs its bad and an exploit so never did it. We might be mint flavoured Bastards with Vomit and raw sewage centres but even we have limits on what we will do.
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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
714
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 13:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
Props to CCP for making a sensible decision... for once. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
VLAD DRACU
Lockstock. Dead Terrorists
17
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Posted - 2013.11.29 13:17:00 -
[54] - Quote
Now lets see if CCP actually enforce their rules and ban the people who knew it was an exploit but still went for it. |
Phoenus
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
124
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Posted - 2013.11.29 13:37:00 -
[55] - Quote
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:ITT: PL buttmad that it wasn't them that pulled this off and collected an epic amount of tears
Yes, I mean. It's totally not like we realised how retardedly broken the mechanic was, and petitioned CCP months ago prior to using it to check if it was allowed?
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Kristoffon Ellecon
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
113
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 13:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
Phoenus wrote:Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:ITT: PL buttmad that it wasn't them that pulled this off and collected an epic amount of tears Yes, I mean. It's totally not like we realised how retardedly broken the mechanic was, and petitioned CCP months ago prior to using it to check if it was allowed? And look how many titan kills you got for it. |
Gevlin
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
238
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 13:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
This is confusing to me
in battle common tactic for a titan to escape is to warp to a safe spot and warp off. With out an interdictor or heavy interdictor, bumping is the only way to stop them.
How am I to know when a pilot has logged off in a system of 200 people. I am allowed to bump? How does this effect the issue about miners being bumped off of asteriod belts. If I have a small gun on my ship and keep shooting the ship I am bumping increasing refreshing the Aggression timer, Then can I bump and not be punished.
As I understand Logoffski is no longer a valid tactic.
please describe a scenario where it is okay to bump and not okay to bump when a ship is about to warp off. Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
22
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Posted - 2013.11.29 13:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
Kristoffon Ellecon wrote:Phoenus wrote: petitioned CCP months ago prior to using it to check if it was allowed?
And look how many titan kills you got for it. Cannot disclose what GMGÇÖs said in petitions on for forums but itGÇÖs 99.99% of what CCP Dolan said in the 1st post. |
Phi X
Malevolent Intentions Dead Terrorists
4
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Posted - 2013.11.29 13:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
i agrees you are confused |
Kashmyta
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
72
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 13:57:00 -
[60] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:This is confusing to me
in battle common tactic for a titan to escape is to warp to a safe spot and warp off. With out an interdictor or heavy interdictor, bumping is the only way to stop them.
How am I to know when a pilot has logged off in a system of 200 people. I am allowed to bump? How does this effect the issue about miners being bumped off of asteriod belts. If I have a small gun on my ship and keep shooting the ship I am bumping increasing refreshing the Aggression timer, Then can I bump and not be punished.
As I understand Logoffski is no longer a valid tactic.
please describe a scenario where it is okay to bump and not okay to bump when a ship is about to warp off.
What you are talking about has nothing to do with this thread.
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