Now i don't want to live in perfectly healthy game in that case. Because they are worst thing for small scale pvp that could ever happen. They are blantly op and everyone who does a bit of small scale pvp knows this.

Thanks, that's why i don't want "perfectly healthy" balance for medium missiles. I rather keep them "sick".

Dafuq?

Dafuq?

Are you ... yhmmm slow on mind ? No offence by it's easy to understand what i said. Me and many others(yeah not just me)... we don't want HM's to be what light missiles are in small weapons category. I rather keep things broken than break it even more by going into such disgusting level of overbuff.

It's not like HAMs are **** - they are not , rapids are also not bad - despite drawback of long reload its single weapon system capable of firing "smaller" ammunition hence better damage projection. HM's could use VERY SMALL buff. Damage one not application. (because long range weapon systems are supposed to "track" worse - in case of missiles worse explosion stats etc).

Have you met Bouh from the RLML thread? His spelling and grammar are better but his ideas are just as stupid as yours.
If you stepped outside of your turrets and went to the other side of the tracks where missiles live and gave them a try you wouldn't be saying such obviously stupid things.
The only people that I have seen, in over 4 pages here and over 130 pages in the RLML thread, that object to a complete missile rework are the ones that have never had to try and make missiles work while CCP40sec and CCPFizzle are kicking you in the teeth.
Edit: Go take a torp BS, not a Stealth Bomber, and try to kill something smaller than a POS with torps. Go ahead. Take cruise missiles and try and engage something smaller than a BS. You're going to say it's great since cruise missiles got their super-OP mega buff that made all the poor little downtrodden turret users cry into their blankies at night but we'll see how long you survive against that ship that doesn't have to sacrifice it's tank to kill you since you probably have next to no tank if you're shooting something smaller than the Death Star.

CCP thanks for good missile balance we got now . Just nerf light missiles and we are set.

Just nerf light missiles and we are set.

I know missiles well - my brother is FULL CALDARI TRAINED in missiles, nothing else.
So yeah i know how they work from frigate to battleship included.
You do understand also that not everyone is native English speaker. You also do understand EVERYTHING i said here.
You just don't agree so you went with terrible argument , probably worst argument you can use on international forum. The poor english.
Now i know it's not that bad. I often don't pay much attention to grammar or interpunction. Maybe i should do this more. But disgusting person like you, who can only come up with such ****** arguments, are not someone who i will talk to again.

Now i'm so sorry, i'm so sorry that i think that missiles are not in need of buffs.

But that is my friggin right to give my own feedback. You don't like it ? Ok don't like it then. But try to talk with arguments, not telling me that i'm not entitled to my own oppinion, just because i don't edit and triple check my posts for grammar mistakes etc. You just proved and many others that what i'm saying is EASY to understand.

So screw you dude.

CCP thanks for good missile balance we got now . Just nerf light missiles and we are set.

So screw you dude.

Ok Naomi I think you need to relax a little... I don't feel you are contributing to this thread with anything useful... I don't really care what your brother does or doesn't do, EVE is complex enough that you cannot gain a well formed idea about a particular part of the game without trying it yourself.

As an example I would not go to a "Lasers Need a Change" thread and say "LASERS ARE FINE STUPID PPL", simply because I have no experience with them.

Give your feedback but don't freak out when we counter it.

Thats All im going to say to you.

Ok Naomi I think you need to relax a little... I don't feel you are contributing to this thread with anything useful... I don't really care what your brother does or doesn't do, EVE is complex enough that you cannot gain a well formed idea about a particular part of the game without trying it yourself.

As an example I would not go to a "Lasers Need a Change" thread and say "LASERS ARE FINE STUPID PPL", simply because I have no experience with them.

Give your feedback but don't freak out when we counter it.

Thats All im going to say to you.

CCP thanks for good missile balance we got now . Just nerf light missiles and we are set.

We really need to start learning to stop feeding the trollsGǪ The problems with all missiles can be summarized in four short points:

GÇó Phoenix dreadnought
GÇó Heavy missiles and drakes
GÇó Cruise missiles and torpedoes
GÇó Rapid light missile launchers

The Phoenix dreadnought, well - it just sucks (even the CSM supported a thread for reimbursement the other day). The HML adjustment nerfed damage, range and damage application (it only needed a the range nerf and a slight damage adjustment). Cruise missiles became so OP with their rebalance than almost no one uses torpedoes now. And finally, rapid launchers. In addition to transitioning from a solo PvP to blob weapon, there was a 23% overall damage nerf (so now you have a weapon that's completely useless).

GÇó Fix the Phoenix once and for all; no more of this gradual change crap. Good grief, it's been how many years now? Embarrassing doesn't even begin to describe it.
GÇó Reinstate the damage application for HMLs and un-nerf the Drakes.
GÇó Dial back the range on cruise missiles and buff the damage for torpedoes.
GÇó Revert back to the original rapid light launchers and first iteration of rapid heavy launchers.

CCP-Fall doesn't know what he's doing.

Cruise missiles aren't that bad. They are quite effective against other battleships and have crazy range. Not saying they couldn't use a little work (and they have fundamental issues in PVP), but I'd be ecstatic if I woke up tomorrow and all the other missiles you listed suddenly measured up to cruise missiles.

Edit: Just realized you are suggesting a nerf to cruise missiles. WTF? People don't use torps because they are trash.

What I suggested was to dial back the range with cruise missiles, ie: reduce flight time by maybe 25% (keep velocity). The fact that they can hit out to over 350km when you can only target to 250km doesn't seem problematic? And as for torpedoes, I suggested a damage buff. Something like a straight 10-15% damage increase.

What I suggested was to dial back the range with cruise missiles, ie: reduce flight time by maybe 25% (keep velocity). The fact that they can hit out to over 350km when you can only target to 250km doesn't seem problematic? And as for torpedoes, I suggested a damage buff. Something like a straight 10-15% damage increase.

Missile flight time at extreme ranges majorly sucks though, so all that range (that you have to sacrifice damage application to get) is pretty meh.

The fact Incursion fleets looking for optimal efficiency don't want cruise missile pilots, suggests they are not OP. They are rarely used outside of lvl4 mission running so I don't see any evidence for them being OP. If your sitting at long range it's much better to have high alpha instant dps turrets, if people are using Cruise over Torps it has more to do with the poor damage application of torpedo's than range.

Suffice to say, missiles are completely screwed-up and CCP has continually shown that missiles are a second rate weapon system, limited by an unrealistic maximum velocity that is outperformed by a projectile weapon with an unknown but constant muzzle velocity of insane speed.

I see where you're coming from - but this essentially suggests making missiles use turret mechanics, which defeats the purpose... Also they have absolute range, as staged, but I think this has to stay just for the logic behind it (Fuel Limits) - otherwise how can they justifies what range the missle lowers damage at, also how it happens ("If it dosen't need fuel, why dose not it go for ever.

That said, I agree with the first replies, just add more application bonuses - or as you suggest, just a bigger range of ammo.

Yes, missiles have more range. They have to, simply because they don't offer variable range, damage type or damage application.

And that range is not very useful past a certain point outside of PvE because missiles have a maximum velocity, which doesn't seem to be a problem with projectiles. But yea, if your opponent doesn't mind waiting around for you missiles to get there you'll be able to experience the disappointment of watching your damage not apply. :)

Correct. And if you get sensor-dampened that negates most of the range advantage. Since Caldari hulls don't receive web or scrambler bonuses, you're more or less giving everything up to be able to engage in close-range PvP. One of the few things Caldari ships have left going for them is ECM, but I think we can all see the writing on the wall.

We haven't been able to fix the Phoenix in years, but we can literally destroy the Caracal overnight...

Yes, and between everyone, you and me, we have discussed everything there is to be said about missiles. It is time for us all to drop missiles and move on. I mean we are not just whining, missiles really are stupid at this point. The only thing that has any real point to be flown is a Tengu and that alone isn't worth the effort. It will take maybe a month for people to get that cruise missiles are a joke again since now it is Marauder or go home. CCP doesn't give a **** after every point has been made. Move on and move out of missiles.