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Gronsak	Posted - 2006.03.03 15:34:00 - [31] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Gronsak stuff omg PH are allowed to fly hacs now?!?! 1. im not in ph anymore 2. i would always perfer my blasterthron over my deimos becasue it does more damage and can tank more. 3. i would always perfer my domi over my ishtar, it hurts morre via nos and tanks better [although its a close one] 4. ive always had hacs since they came out, ishtars, deimos, zealots, i just never use them in pvp or npcing cos they pretty much suck vs my BS 5. a lot of PH members got HAC/Recons as gifts recently but still we perfer the close range BS [torp ravens, AC tempest, Blastherthrons, nos DOMIs.] -------------------Sig----------------------- Decrease blaster CPU useage Decrease Hybrid cap useage Balance all weapon systems DO IT SOON
kessah	Posted - 2006.03.03 15:55:00 - [32] i have killed a Raven a tempest and a Apoc in my Sacrilege pre patch took a bloody long time but i got em. So its definetly possible. they were all npc'ers tho No chance really against an adept pvp battleship and quite rightly so imho. --------------------------------------------------------
Tomsudy	Posted - 2006.03.03 16:01:00 - [33] Originally by: Kaleeb Well it depends on setups as all fights do. E.g a blasterthron with no heavy nos being orbited by a HAC at 18km or so is going to die unless it can jump through gate etc. Same as a tempest/apoc/thron with beams/rails/howlies will die to a close range HAC. HAC's have their uses e.g small wolf packs roaming hostile space, but bs's are far more useful in a standup fight. i doubt they can even beat a em with a long range setup on. i got caught out by a zealot once after he warped away from a station then warped back at 100km about 15km away (noobish thing to stick around i know) he sat there attacking me i had 1 large armour rep on no hardeners and a full set of tachs, he managed to get inside my opt and he still couldnt break my tank, in the end i lanched my drones and he warped. ________________________________________ Warlords corp Core Collective council member
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.03 16:02:00 - [34] Originally by: kessah sig I see the pixel art is going well :) ______________________________________________ Hurrah I'm Unbanned \o/
Nadec Ascand	Posted - 2006.03.03 16:23:00 - [35] I agree with the fatc an HAC wont kill evry bs coming trough his way. But stick to One thing HAC are most Old and well fitted player when there is still noobs in raven or poc. Yeah i wont kill a BS on my EAGLE its not mean to I will give him a hard time but there is no way he can take me out in any combat i choose to do (important here the choice ^^ not talking about a blasteron or torp raven coming at 15km...) I will just fire from 200km as im supposed to do, still be firing at 60km... then just warp out when the bs come to cloose from scrambling range... OMG our war have been hijack -eris What 0_o LMAO Nadec 4TW - Vanamonde Here start a new WAR => X - Wrangler
Laythun	Posted - 2006.03.03 16:28:00 - [36] Originally by: Tomsudy Originally by: Kaleeb Well it depends on setups as all fights do. E.g a blasterthron with no heavy nos being orbited by a HAC at 18km or so is going to die unless it can jump through gate etc. Same as a tempest/apoc/thron with beams/rails/howlies will die to a close range HAC. HAC's have their uses e.g small wolf packs roaming hostile space, but bs's are far more useful in a standup fight. i doubt they can even beat a em with a long range setup on. i got caught out by a zealot once after he warped away from a station then warped back at 100km about 15km away (noobish thing to stick around i know) he sat there attacking me i had 1 large armour rep on no hardeners and a full set of tachs, he managed to get inside my opt and he still couldnt break my tank, in the end i lanched my drones and he warped. then this HAC pilot was a noob, under your range and with heavy pulse II'S ( or even focused) he should have easily broke a 1 lrg rep tank Stupid ISD you messed up my sig. i'd already changed it to the right size. Leave it alone ffs
R31D	Posted - 2006.03.03 16:35:00 - [37] I don't think HACs really stand a chance against BS if both are setup for PvP (even a general PvP setup). I've flown a Blasterthron with relatively basic skills and t1 gear and beaten a Zealot with full t2 (including Conflags) and come out on top without too many problems Free bumpage for all
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.03 17:26:00 - [38] Originally by: R31D I don't think HACs really stand a chance against BS if both are setup for PvP (even a general PvP setup). I've flown a Blasterthron with relatively basic skills and t1 gear and beaten a Zealot with full t2 (including Conflags) and come out on top without too many problems did the zealot use his massive optimal range bonus or did he get inside your web range? tbh there are too many idiots flying hacs that use the same techniques vs other hacs/cruisers/friggies on battleships and get shot to pieces. ______________________________________________ Hurrah I'm Unbanned \o/
Trefnis	Posted - 2006.03.03 18:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: R31D I don't think HACs really stand a chance against BS if both are setup for PvP (even a general PvP setup). I've flown a Blasterthron with relatively basic skills and t1 gear and beaten a Zealot with full t2 (including Conflags) and come out on top without too many problems did the zealot use his massive optimal range bonus or did he get inside your web range? tbh there are too many idiots flying hacs that use the same techniques vs other hacs/cruisers/friggies on battleships and get shot to pieces. i know mega is not as versatile as tempest which i fly but if hac is out of 20km feel free to shoot me, i warp away if i want, if he try to keep 13-18km to scramble he is dead if alone (no frig buddy webbing me) with 3 web drones u can even catch vaga if u have mwd before he realise what is going on, if he try to mwd out fast enough not to get in 10km web range he fly in straight line and u can easli hit him for big hits (sig) bottom line is, u can fit bs for solo and win all fights vs hac, but u cant fit hac to win all fights vs solo pvp fitted bs as for deep 0.0 in wolf packs.. nothing beats 4-5 vagas roamin around :)
Isonkon Serikain	Posted - 2006.03.03 19:34:00 - [40] Same argument can be made for cruisers vs AFs... T1 cruisers are cheaper and will hand it to an AF unless there is a serious skills mismatch between pilots. Ison's notches
Cummilla	Posted - 2006.03.03 19:35:00 - [41] It's FUN to fly hacs.But I doubt I buy another one until nosses are fixed.
Isonkon Serikain	Posted - 2006.03.03 19:40:00 - [42] why should they fix nosses, they work fine... Ison's notches
Cummilla	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Isonkon Serikain why should they fix nosses, they work fine... They have a disproportionate impact on < BS sized ships for combat at < 20km. I think the basic solution involves capping the amount of cap as a PERCENTAGE they can take from a non BS sized capacitor per cycle. The purpose is to allow combat to resolve itself by allowing a < BS sized capacitor at least three cycles(36 seconds) before it's depleted or near depleted. All too often, mostly in hacs of late, I've warped into ships with vamp setups and find 90% of my capacitor gone in the first 12 seconds of battle. That's not balanced and isn't something that will encourage people to vary the types of ship they utilize in combat. I think balance means you should have at least enough cap to turn on your tanking modules and take advantage of your setup to escape(assuming of course you've setup that way).
Yaro	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:16:00 - [44] Why dont u fit cap injector on your hac ?
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:17:00 - [45] Originally by: Yaro Why dont u fit cap injector on your hac ? because the majority only have 3 mid slots: mwd/ab, web, scram ______________________________________________ Hurrah I'm Unbanned \o/
Cummilla	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:19:00 - [46] Originally by: Yaro Why dont u fit cap injector on your hac ? I will grant that an injector helps a little. But you really have to look at the numbers over the course of 3 to 4 cycles of the nos. And then compare that to what an injector will "give back." It's just not enough under alot of situations vs. BS sized ships with heavy nosses and neuts.
Leilani Solaris	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:20:00 - [47] it toally depends on what hac it is and what battleship... i wouldn't send my Zealot anywhere near a nossing domi, but i'd go for a mega or a apoc... also depends on the setup's of each.. All depends on circumstances, fittings, and skill levels of the pilots.. I haven't got a new sig yet :) http://triad.eve-killboard.net/
Cummilla	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:20:00 - [48] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Yaro Why dont u fit cap injector on your hac ? because the majority only have 3 mid slots: mwd/ab, web, scram Also this is true. Look at the munin for example.
Cummilla	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:27:00 - [49] Originally by: Leilani Solaris it toally depends on what hac it is and what battleship... i wouldn't send my Zealot anywhere near a nossing domi, but i'd go for a mega or a apoc... also depends on the setup's of each.. All depends on circumstances, fittings, and skill levels of the pilots.. yeah, you'll find noob apoc pilots in npc fitted ships that don't pose a threat to your cap like differently setup pvp oriented apocs. But I'm a pirate and alot of antipirates I come across in apocs love teh vamp setup because they know that as a pirate I like to bring it with vagas, other fast movers, or ravens. All of which are especially vulnerable cap wise. Although the Raven with injector setup can cover most circumstances and will good skills can skewer those "Raven killer apoc" setups.
Beringe	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:30:00 - [50] I've been saying this forever. HACs are expensive toys. Pimpmobiles for the veterans, essentially. I'll take a BS in PVP over a HAC any day. ------------------------------------------- "Never underestimate the power of language." --Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles--
Isonkon Serikain	Posted - 2006.03.03 20:37:00 - [51] Cumilla, you are lobbying because you want to have an easier time killing battleships solo with your HAC... Its not very objective. Hacs are balanced, they serve their purpose well... You want to be able to kill a bs by yourself in a smaller ship. Its still possible, but it shouldn't be a given. A bs should be able to use its tremendous power core to take out a hac's any time... its one of two defenses that a turreted bs has against short range HACS. Ison's notches
Zed Nash	Posted - 2006.03.03 21:07:00 - [52] Originally by: Cummilla Originally by: Isonkon Serikain why should they fix nosses, they work fine... All too often, mostly in hacs of late, I've warped into ships with vamp setups and find 90% of my capacitor gone in the first 12 seconds of battle. That's not balanced and isn't something that will encourage people to vary the types of ship they utilize in combat. I think balance means you should have at least enough cap to turn on your tanking modules and take advantage of your setup to escape(assuming of course you've setup that way). If an individual sets up their ships strictly for cap warfare, ie all NOSes in the highs, then your cap should be gone, and quickly. Working as intended, move along.............
Specture	Posted - 2006.03.03 21:25:00 - [53] lol, when will you all realize that it's the pilot that is flying the ship and not the ship itself. I have seen zealots win against domis becuase they are smart and orbit at 28km with a domi disruptor and can tank drones. Originally by: pottsey have never come across a HAC that could even dint my battleships let alone kill it 1v1, even when I am in PvE gear. I donÆt believe even a HABC could hurt a decently setup battleship. lool please, I havn't even seen you in the war and I would like you to bring your battleship out and see how long it can last against a zealot or anyother hac. Also not all HACs are so supseptible to nos. For instance like I had read a HAC with a medium cap injector and 800 charges can easily last long enough to kill a battleship. Also a vagabond/cerebus/ishtar don't really need cap to fire it's guns. The vagabond (if the pilot is good) doesn't even need a tank just the large sheild boosters. Sacriledge is good in a group though, and munin, well idk about that. Deimos/Zealot are probably the most damageing of HACs. Now you say Originally by: butter dog I'd be very confident of taking on 3 or 4 HAC in my Dominix at once. And still winning. ahhahahahahahahahahahha no comment except gleam + 3 zealots with about a DPS of 560 would make you one crispy critter. Also 3 deimos with void? make you even crispier. Oh wait you will nos them? ha you won't even last 2-3 cycles.
Evil Thug	Posted - 2006.03.03 23:25:00 - [54] Vagabond, with 1 tracking disruptor, orbitting target on 15km = win. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =)
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.03 23:34:00 - [55] Originally by: Evil Thug Vagabond, with 1 tracking disruptor, orbitting target on 15km = win. which is why I never like shield tanking it - 3 spare mods for ewar goodies ______________________________________________ Please do not discuss actions taken by forum moderators, even in your sig. By the way I want to have your babies --Jorauk
Cummilla	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:39:00 - [56] Originally by: Isonkon Serikain Cumilla, you are lobbying because you want to have an easier time killing battleships solo with your HAC... Its not very objective. Hacs are balanced, they serve their purpose well... You want to be able to kill a bs by yourself in a smaller ship. Its still possible, but it shouldn't be a given. A bs should be able to use its tremendous power core to take out a hac's any time... its one of two defenses that a turreted bs has against short range HACS. Not exactly Isonkon. Losing per se doesn't bother me. I get outguessed and outskilled and I make a bad choice every so often and I lose because of it. That I expect. What I don't like to see is a module in the game that so sways combat that there is virtually a nonexistant window for good choice and tactics because nosses do what they do to hacs in so many situations.
Cummilla	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Zed Nash Originally by: Cummilla Originally by: Isonkon Serikain why should they fix nosses, they work fine... All too often, mostly in hacs of late, I've warped into ships with vamp setups and find 90% of my capacitor gone in the first 12 seconds of battle. That's not balanced and isn't something that will encourage people to vary the types of ship they utilize in combat. I think balance means you should have at least enough cap to turn on your tanking modules and take advantage of your setup to escape(assuming of course you've setup that way). If an individual sets up their ships strictly for cap warfare, ie all NOSes in the highs, then your cap should be gone, and quickly. Working as intended, move along............. That is fine I guess. What it means is that if "nosses are fine" as is, then I will choose not to use them (hacs) because they have critical weaknesses in the cap dept that surface in a manner where no amount of skill or setup can overcome them.
Cummilla	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Sarmaul Originally by: Evil Thug Vagabond, with 1 tracking disruptor, orbitting target on 15km = win. which is why I never like shield tanking it - 3 spare mods for ewar goodies Does the tracking module expend cap? heh
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:47:00 - [59] Edited by: Sky Hunter on 04/03/2006 00:47:17 Oh god...another 'lets compare!' thread.. It usually leads nowhere but into 20 page back-&-forth snowball throwing.... edit: typos -=-
Slaphead	Posted - 2006.03.04 05:04:00 - [60] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 03/03/2006 15:03:18 Originally by: Slaphead Famine, I stand by my comment that no, ANY BS cannot take out ANY HAC, unless it's very specifically fitted. I just want to clarify Slaphead > HAC's can fit heavy nos So if you say stuff like this then you really shouldn't have any play in the convo or anything pvp related. On a serious note, pilots make the ship. So yeah HAC can defeat a battleship however, Battleships do have the upper hand and should have NO problem defeating any hac. Even with common pvp setups. Sigh. Well as I said I hoped we could keep things civil, but I guess you're not capable. We were making the point that, theoretically, a HAC can fit a heavy nos. I invite you to visit the offline ship fitter, and show yourself that you can easily fit a heavy nos on, say, a zealot with a few RCUs. 3 RCUs and decent skills are all that is required. Would any sane player do it? No, but the point was made at the time that this was hypothetical. So do a little researche before you show your lack of knowledge. I only joined in your 'debate' because it struck me at the time that it was rather depressing to see an 'older' player smacktalking and showing off to a noob channel that kept asking you to be quiet.

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