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Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.03.03 23:33:00 - [31] Edited by: Toaster Oven on 03/03/2006 23:33:04 Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 03/03/2006 23:29:00 No damage mods 3 damage mods ... now real idea about what would be "fair" setups to compare though. Edit: a few seconds too late. Another version of your Elve's last graph (by the way there's a "http" too much in your link). Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. Sacriledge can't really run viable setups with high slots filled with the largest weapons in it's class. 3 Heavy Pulse TII + 3 Heavy Launcher TII gives it severe CPU problems. It doesn't have the grid to run 4 Heavy Pulse TII + 2 Heavy Launcher TII. More fair would be to compare 4 Focused Medium Pulse TII + 2 Heavy Launcher TII
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.03.03 23:38:00 - [32] Originally by: Toaster Oven Sacriledge can't really run viable setups with high slots filled with the largest weapons in it's class. 3 Heavy Pulse TII + 3 Heavy Launcher TII gives it severe CPU problems. It doesn't have the grid to run 4 Heavy Pulse TII + 2 Heavy Launcher TII. More fair would be to compare 4 Focused Medium Pulse TII + 2 Heavy Launcher TII Yes, sorry for that, I somehow managed to mess up both the graphs and the post, it's edited now. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.03.03 23:42:00 - [33] I think the one thing we can conclude from this thread is that the Ishtar is overpowered. /Elve
Weirda	Posted - 2006.03.03 23:52:00 - [34] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: CB Apollo LEARN MATHS HAHAHHA: I feel sorry for you. /signed on topic though - weirda very upset about the changes... and said as much many time over. now the ppl who thought they were good on paper are realizing how much it really hurt the ship... maybe not all of them - but in time they will. now the armor/shield swap was absolutely necessary... but what the ship really needed was more cpu and a second damage bonus... no nos bonuses... crap bonus or weird bonus. just straight up. either way - not selling it yet... hoping that in some of the patching over next couple day they will accidentally roll the bonus change back and forget about it. __ Weirda Assault Ship deserve a 4th Bonus and More!
Weirda	Posted - 2006.03.03 23:52:00 - [35] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: CB Apollo LEARN MATHS HAHAHHA: I feel sorry for you. /signed on topic though - weirda very upset about the changes... and said as much many time over. now the ppl who thought they were good on paper are realizing how much it really hurt the ship... maybe not all of them - but in time they will. now the armor/shield swap was absolutely necessary... but what the ship really needed was more cpu and a second damage bonus... no nos bonuses... crap bonus or weird bonus. just straight up. either way - not selling it yet... hoping that in some of the patching over next couple day they will accidentally roll the bonus change back and forget about it. __ Weirda Assault Ship deserve a 4th Bonus and More!
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:03:00 - [36] Originally by: Toaster Oven Uh, it's not somewhere in between. It's flat at the bottom. It has the worst dmg output of all HACs. And only the Caldari HACs are slower. Which makes it a **** poor tackler. The only reason it's used as one is because that's about the only thing left it can do. With it's 4 turrets only doing the same damage as a Maller at HAC 5, it's not a threat to any decently tanked ship. It's a HAC, not a tackler. If all a HAC is good for is tackling, that's pretty much saying it's worthless. And tbh all your "creative" setups are pure garbage. Which pretty much leaves the Sac out in the cold. Hmm. That's true. Also, something I overlooked is that if it has no speciality, there's no surprise factor involved in fitting one out differently to everyone else. I had no idea the sac was doing so little damage. If it's actually being outdamaged by its T1 counterpart, something is wrong. Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Higher firepower, shield tank if you want, damage mods in lows = better DpS if you set it up that way Full damage mod Sacrilege vs 3 Heat Sink Zealot So much for that higher DPS thing. Nyphur, damage graphs: No damage mods Viable PvP setups That's fairly surprising but can you compare the DPS tanked with each setup too? Raw damage charts aren't entirely relevant. Is the sac tanking less or as much as the zealot while dealing that crappy damage? Put a good case up for it being boosted and it will but we'd have to take everything into account. Weapon range, tanking ability, ship speed etc. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:03:00 - [37] Originally by: Toaster Oven Uh, it's not somewhere in between. It's flat at the bottom. It has the worst dmg output of all HACs. And only the Caldari HACs are slower. Which makes it a **** poor tackler. The only reason it's used as one is because that's about the only thing left it can do. With it's 4 turrets only doing the same damage as a Maller at HAC 5, it's not a threat to any decently tanked ship. It's a HAC, not a tackler. If all a HAC is good for is tackling, that's pretty much saying it's worthless. And tbh all your "creative" setups are pure garbage. Which pretty much leaves the Sac out in the cold. Hmm. That's true. Also, something I overlooked is that if it has no speciality, there's no surprise factor involved in fitting one out differently to everyone else. I had no idea the sac was doing so little damage. If it's actually being outdamaEVE Online \| EVE Insider \| Forums
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:15:00 - [38] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 04/03/2006 00:19:41 Heh, using your own spreadsheet: Zealot with EM, Therm n Kin hardners: Normalized HP = 10.958 Raw DPS Repaired = 155 Sacrilege with EM, Therm n Kin hardners: Normalized HP = 13.559 Raw DPS Repaired = 207 EDIT: With no hardners, for comparison: Zealot: Normalized HP = 6.153 Raw DPS Repaired = 87 Sacrilege: Normalized HP = 7.614 Raw DPS Repaired = 116 /Elve
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:16:00 - [39] Originally by: Nyphur EDIT: Also, could I get a graph with 3 damage mods and 2 ballistic control units on the sac? Was that "Full damage mod Sacrilege" graph showing one with 5 heat sinks? No, the Full damage mod graph was actually with 3 Heatsinks and 2 Ballistic Controls. /Elve
Cummilla	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:18:00 - [40] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Heh, using your own spreadsheet: Zealot with EM, Therm n Kin hardners: Normalized HP = 10.958 Raw DPS Repaired = 155 Sacrilege with EM, Therm n Kin hardners: Normalized HP = 13.559 Raw DPS Repaired = 207 Where's a arty munin in full gank(3 damage mods, tech 2 720s) fit in? Nice graph btw.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:29:00 - [41] Originally by: Cummilla Nice graph btw. Click Naughty's signature to make your own. Muninn comparison /Elve
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:32:00 - [42] Originally by: Nyphur Is the sac tanking less or as much as the zealot while dealing that crappy damage? Put a good case up for it being boosted and it will but we'd have to take everything into account. Weapon range, tanking ability, ship speed etc. You rarely if ever see a Zealot completely tanked as that's not how it's best utilized. So perhaps that is the reason why people think Sac is the better tanker. But it's not true. Zealot will *always* tank better than a Sac if you set it up to. Look closely and you'll see why: - Zealot has 10 mid+low slots. Sac has 9. Zealot has more slots to help tank with - Zealot has 7 low slots. Sac has 5. Zealot has more slots to tank with - Zealot has a utility slot to fit a med nos. Sac has 100 more base cap. Med Nos >>> 100 base cap. Zealot has more cap to tank with - Sac cannot fit largest weapons in it's high slots. Zealot can fit largest weapons in it's high slots and have ample PG left. Zealot has more PG to tank with. - Zealot has 125m sig radius. Sac has 140m sig radius. Zealot takes less damage so tanks better. - Zealot base speed and mass is 215m/s and 11950000kg. Sac base speed and mass is 175m/s and 12155000kg. Zealot goes faster and avoids more damage hence tanking better. Just because it has a 25% resistance bonus doesn't make it a better tanker. Just seems that way at first glance.
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:33:00 - [43] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 04/03/2006 00:19:41 Heh, using your own spreadsheet: Zealot with EM, Therm n Kin hardners: Normalized HP = 10.958 Raw DPS Repaired = 155 Sacrilege with EM, Therm n Kin hardners: Normalized HP = 13.559 Raw DPS Repaired = 207 EDIT: With no hardners, for comparison: Zealot: Normalized HP = 6.153 Raw DPS Repaired = 87 Sacrilege: Normalized HP = 7.614 Raw DPS Repaired = 116 Well see there's your problem. The sac is a better tank thanks to the resistance bonus and it can potentially run two medium repairers (did you try doubling the repair amount?). If it can tank better than a zealot, that's its speciality and its reduced damage is mitigated, on paper at least. How it performs in a real situation is something entirely different and it appears people are not pleased with the sac's performance. The problem I have with accepting that as evidence that it's broken is that most people are trying to fit the sac for something other than its speciality and are fitting it like a zealot. The question is, can it tank better than a zealot? If it can tank better with a specialised tank setup, you have to also compare it to the zealot in a similar circumstance and fit it out with a good tank. And I know the zealot can tank like a *** with those 7 low slots, so I'm not sure the sac is much better in that respect. I'll run some numbers. Originally by:** Elve Sorrow Originally by: Nyphur EDIT: Also, could I get a graph with 3 damage mods and 2 ballistic control units on the sac? Was that "Full damage mod Sacrilege" graph showing one with 5 heat sinks? No, the Full damage mod graph was actually with 3 Heatsinks and 2 Ballistic Controls. Hah, we had the same idea ^^; Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:38:00 - [44] Originally by: Nyphur Well see there's your problem. The sac is a better tank thanks to the resistance bonus and it can potentially run two medium repairers (did you try doubling the repair amount?). If it can tank better than a zealot, that's its speciality and its reduced damage is mitigated, on paper at least. How it performs in a real situation is something entirely different and it appears people are not pleased with the sac's performance. The problem I have with accepting that as evidence that it's broken is that most people are trying to fit the sac for something other than its speciality and are fitting it like a zealot. The question is, can it tank better than a zealot? If it can tank better with a specialised tank setup, you have to also compare it to the zealot in a similar circumstance and fit it out with a good tank. And I know the zealot can tank like a ***** with those 7 low slots, so I'm not sure the sac is much better in that respect. I'll run some numbers. I didn't bother running the dual Repairer maths, but it would obviously double the Raw HP Repaired. Problem is that Dual Rep tank, although sustainable with 4 Cap IIs in med, is in no way a viable PvP setup. You could, i suppose, run dual Med Reps, Thermal hardner, 2 relays and 2 Cap IIs, leaving room for an AB and Scrambler. Im sure you can see why this isnt exactly viable either though. As for fitting the Sacrilege as a Zealot - I think thats actually quite uncommon. Most people that bother flying a Sacrilege will fly it heavily tanked, sometimes with some nosf. Personally, i run a Med Rep, Thermal II, Energized Adaptive and 1600mm plate. /Elve
Kai Lae	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:39:00 - [45] Originally by: Weirda /signed on topic though - weirda very upset about the changes... and said as much many time over. now the ppl who thought they were good on paper are realizing how much it really hurt the ship... maybe not all of them - but in time they will. now the armor/shield swap was absolutely necessary... but what the ship really needed was more cpu and a second damage bonus... no nos bonuses... crap bonus or weird bonus. just straight up. either way - not selling it yet... hoping that in some of the patching over next couple day they will accidentally roll the bonus change back and forget about it. Sac needed laser damage. Problem is that it needed it in the form of replacing the optimal range bonus, not replacing ROF on the launchers. It also could use a 4/4 turret/launcher arrangement. Those changes would make for something that would not be a poor zealot imitation.
Wheya	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:44:00 - [46] Sacrilege and Zealot have the same boni with the exception of 25% armor resistance boost for Sacrilege instead of the 25% RoF boost on Zealot. To compare the damage output of both ships I will use the variable ST which stands for standard turret - a turret without bonus. (I hope my numbers are right, please check if you think something is wrong) 4 turrets on Sacrilege with the dmg bonus do the damage of 5 ST at the energy cost of 4 ST. 4 turrets on Zealot with dmg + rof bonus do the damage of 6.64 ST at the energy cost of 5.33 ST. The Zealot makes 1.64 ST more damage with an additional energy cost of 1.33 ST. This doesn't look too bad for the Sacrilege because it still has 2 missile slots and some drones. The difference comes with heatsinks. Three HSII are a common sight on the Zealot for a good reason. They give an additional RoF and dmg modifier boost. The combination of this 2 boosts is a damage boost of 65% for 3 heatsinks. 4 turrets on Zealot with 3 HSII do the damage of 10.95 ST at the energy cost of 7.1 ST. 4 turrets on Sacrilege with 3 HSII do the damage of 8.25 ST at the energy cost of 5.3 ST. The Zealot makes 2.7 ST more damage with an additional energy cost of 1.8 ST. The Sacrilege still has room for 2 missile slots and some drones. So far this numbers aren't that bad. Damage can be pretty equal and the Sacrilege has way more energy than the Zealot. The problem for the Sacrilege with 3 HSII is: there are only 2 free low slots left for armor tanking while the Zealot has 4 free low slots. Either you can't use the full advantage of the 3 turret boni on the Sacrilege or ou can't use the armor resistance bonus and the highest cap/sec recharge rate on Sacrilege. The result is always a ship that feels I was one of the few who preferred the Sacrilege over the Zealot pre-patch. I preferred the Sacrilege over the Zealot before the stacking changes and I have had a 7 HSII Zealot in my hangar. I trained missile skills only for the Sacrilege and I enjoyed to be able to do kinetic and explosive damage. To me the blood patch is a nerf for the Sacrilege when it comes to PvP. As a producer of the Sacrilege I see the poor skilled Amarrians (when it comes to missiles) now give the Sacrilege a try. I enjoy to sell the Sacrilege for 150m instead of 65m but I liked the 65m version more. Turn the armor resistance to a shield resistance and turn 1-2 low slots into 1-2 med slots (like the Eagle) and I will be happy again.
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:50:00 - [47] Originally by: Elve Sorrow I didn't bother running the dual Repairer maths, but it would obviously double the Raw HP Repaired. Problem is that Dual Rep tank, although sustainable with 4 Cap IIs in med, is in no way a viable PvP setup. You could, i suppose, run dual Med Reps, Thermal hardner, 2 relays and 2 Cap IIs, leaving room for an AB and Scrambler. Im sure you can see why this isnt exactly viable either though. As for fitting the Sacrilege as a Zealot - I think thats actually quite uncommon. Most people that bother flying a Sacrilege will fly it heavily tanked, sometimes with some nosf. Personally, i run a Med Rep, Thermal II, Energized Adaptive and 1600mm plate. Well if it needs that many mids for recharge, it isn't that useful, is it? :/. You could replace two of them with a large battery but that would eat your grid and you'd have even less ability to fit lasers. The sac is a bit of a strange ship to fit since it mixed launchers and lasers. It's like the bastard child of a minmatar ship and an ishtar. Could you theoretically run a dual rep setup off some nos and free up med slots for scramblers? If so, I'm sure you can see where I'm going with that. Yes, it relegates the sac to a secondary tackler again but a role is a role. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:51:00 - [48] The Sac is just a Zealot with less dmg and more tank. It's boring. If you look at all the other HAC's they all do 2 completely unique things. The Deimos is a shortrange blaster machine while the Ishtar is a drone/ew king. The Muninn is longrange (supposed to be?) and the vaga is a super speedy AC king. The Eagle is a rail sniper while the Cerb is a flexible missile spammer The Zealot is a laser boat that can tank well and the Sacrilege is a laser boat that can tank well Woo. I'm just happy i didn't train heavy missile 5 _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
Meridius	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:54:00 - [49] Originally by: Nyphur Could you theoretically run a dual rep setup off some nos and free up med slots for scramblers? If so, I'm sure you can see where I'm going with that. Yes, it relegates the sac to a secondary tackler again but a role is a role. Dual rep used to be good when missiles on it had a rof bonus. 3x Nos 3x Heavies worked at heavy tackling. It still did pee damage but some people didn't mind it. _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:57:00 - [50] Originally by: Nyphur Those are some damn fine points. Did you factor in the ability of the sac to sustain 2 med reps with some cap rechargers and still have some med slots? I'll run some numbers on that after I get some food here but someone who's flown a sac like yourself probably has experience with it that would be a bit more useful than running some numbers through a spreadsheet. Can a dual med rep setup tank sentries, by any chance? I know a zealot can tank sentries on a T2 med rep/corpum med rep but can a sac on two of them and how many med slots will you need to sacrifice for the kind of cap recharge it will need to sustain that? Sacriledge cannot run a dual repper setup + 3 hardener tank in any sort of viable config, whether for PVP or PVE, without the help of some extremely expensive faction cap rechargers that will cost you in the billions of isk range. Dual rep + 2 hardener is pointless compared to single rep + 4 hardeners so it's not even worth looking at. Limiting yourself to TII gear, you have to fill all your mid slots with TII Cap Rechargers. That's obviously a good way to lose money. If you want to free up a mid slot, you need to run 2x Cap Recharger II + 1x Large Cap Battery. Which leaves you with no extra cap and very little PG to work with. The best you can do at that point is fit 3x heavy launchers and 3x autocannons. Which is also another extremely bad setup. I've never bothered to tank sentries in that config as I couldn't even kill an indy setup like that .
Wild Rho	Posted - 2006.03.04 00:58:00 - [51] Not every setup has to be tank and gank. The zealot is a very specialist ship (in typical amarr fashion) and is very good at what it does. The sacrilage is more a general purpose ship and can be very flexible in how you choose to fit it out. Personally I love it, although I do admit a damage or ROF bonus should be applied to both weapon groups so one isn't essentially crippled compared to the other.
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.03.04 01:38:00 - [52] Question relating to a setup I'm coming up with. Is there anything that reduces the powergrid needs of a nos, mwd or armour repairer? Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.03.04 01:47:00 - [53] Originally by: Nyphur Question relating to a setup I'm coming up with. Is there anything that reduces the powergrid needs of a nos, mwd or armour repairer? Nope. /Elve
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2006.03.04 01:54:00 - [54] I cannot understand the point in fly a sacrilige anymore unless you cant afford a zealot, in which case why fly a hac? I mean, before i used to like sacrilige because i could fit 3 heavy launcher IIs and do kinetic damage against minmatar ships, or explosive damage against arch angels or what not. Well, so long to that. If i want to tank, a battleship does the job far better, and even a zealot can tank better then a sacrilige if you set it up as a pure tank. The only significant advantage of the sacrilige was that it could Do different Damage types and the zealot could not. Well, heres waiting, and hoping that the explosive crystals come sooner then later, cause yet again, i cannot fly any amarr ships against minmatar hacs and have a hope. _______________________________________________ Deadspace For Dead space! Originally by: Oveur To the nerfmobile!
Semkhet	Posted - 2006.03.04 02:14:00 - [55] Many posts in this thread reflect an appalling lack of creativity. The Sacrilege is superior to the Zealot in 8 areas: - Better natural armor resists. - Better radar sensor strength. - 4th mid slot. - Drone bay. - Not limited to EM/Thermal damage. - All the highs can be fitted with weapons. - Bigger capacitor. - Faster capacitor recharge rate. Therefore: 4x Hvy Pulse Laser II 2x Hvy Malkuth launchers 1x AB II 1x J5b Phased Proto Warp Inhibitor 1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor 1x Hypnos Multispec or a named racial jammer 2x HS II 1x Armor Thermic Hardener II 1x Refuge Adaptive Nano Plating I 1x Medium Accomodation Vestment Reconstructer Drones 5x Acolyte TD-300 (each drone inflicts -5% tracking, -5% range). Fits with advanced weap upg. lvl4 and -3% turret cpu implant: 3.92 PG / 1.15 CPU left Just replace the multispec with an "Umbra" White Noise, and you get 55% chances to jam the pathetic Zealot's 13 points radar strength at each cycle. And we all know that a jammed Zealot is'n going to hurt a fly. Still convinced that the Sac is useless ? LMAO... Please resize your signature graphic to be smaller than 24,000 bytes in filesize - Jacques
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.03.04 02:41:00 - [56] Edited by: Nyphur on 04/03/2006 02:42:45 OK, crazy idea for a lockdown ship using the Sac. High: 4 'Strigoi' Medium Nosferatu I, 2 x small T2 nos. Med: 10mn mwd II, 2 x scrambler, 1 x webber. Low: 3 x 'meditation' med repairer, 2 x T2 energised adaptive nano (or one thermic T2 active and one energised adaptive if you want well rounded resists). (those crazy named things are COSMOS items that have reduced powergrid reqs and the same stats as T2) The sac has 1000 base grid, times 1.25 for level 5 of the grid skill = 1250. 4 'Strigoi' Medium Nosferatu I = 4 * 158 = 632 Grid. 1250-632=618. -20 for the two small nos II leaves 598 grid. 3 x meditation repairers = 135 * 3 = 405. 598-405 leaves 193 grid. -165 for the T2 mwd = 28 grid left for everything else. With that setup, you can run the three repairers constantly and tank 600 DPS on average from any damage type until your opponent runs out of cap, at which stage they're dead in the water and can't tank. You have no offensive capability at all unless you count three light drones. As part of a gang, you can lock a ship down completely with one of these and you'll be bloody hard to kill. By the way, I've just been talking to a sac user friend of mine and he tells me that Dual rep setups work perfectly fine since the typical sac setup consists of 3 guns and 3 nos. You'll take a while to kill someone but your nos will break their tank on cap so they can't resist the 3 guns properly and it doesn't use a single mid slot for cap. That's what I mean by people treating it like a zealot. You can't just tank it and add all weapons in the highs, then complain you're not dealing enough damage. Switching in 3 Nos in those highs lets you double your tanking ability and put huge dents in your enemy's cap. That's not something to be sniffed at. The sac doesn't NEED as much damage as the zealot to break someone's tank because it makes so much better use of nos to do that. Can a zealot do that? Yes. Can it do it as well as a sac? No. If a zealot tried to fit 3 nos, it'd have 2 high slots left for guns. Even with the ROF bonus, those two guns are not going to deal as much damage as the three left on the sacrilege. The sac really does make better use of nos due to having two highs that it can't use for the same weaponry as the rest of the high slots. You can even throw in missile launchers in place of the lasers and choose your damage type at a reduced damage output. You want to surprise your enemy? Throw in some ECM/other EW and rely on a wingman for tackling. Comparing raw damage makes the sac look worse on paper than it performs in combat. Come on, it's not that bad a ship. It could do with 10m3 more drone space but that's about it. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Hanns	Posted - 2006.03.04 02:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Elve Sorrow I think the one thing we can conclude from this thread is that the Ishtar is overpowered. INDEED, id liek to see a graph comparing all the top end hac's i fear the zealot will probably come out on the bottom of the pile. Jacques 4tw - Hanns I watched Hanns beat up Chuck Norris yesterday -zhuge liang That is such a lie, it Buck Rodgers - Cortes
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2006.03.04 02:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Semkhet 4x Hvy Pulse Laser II 2x Hvy Malkuth launchers 1x AB II 1x J5b Phased Proto Warp Inhibitor 1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor 1x Hypnos Multispec or a named racial jammer 2x HS II 1x Armor Thermic Hardener II 1x Refuge Adaptive Nano Plating I 1x Medium Accomodation Vestment Reconstructer LOL, that's a hilariously bad setup. That tank is crap. Actually, that's being extremely generous. Seeing as you have all of 5 cap/s leftover for your armor rep after feeding all the other modules. Which means anyone puts a med nos on you and you have no cap at all with which to tank. 1 or 2 missed cycles of the jammer and that Sac is history Quote: Still convinced that the Sac is useless ? LMAO... When I keep seeing crap setups like that it's hard to think otherwise.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.03.04 03:08:00 - [59] Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 04/03/2006 02:42:45 OK, crazy idea for a lockdown ship using the Sac. High: 4 'Strigoi' Medium Nosferatu I, 2 x small T2 nos. Med: 10mn mwd II, 2 x scrambler, 1 x webber. Low: 3 x 'meditation' med repairer, 2 x T2 energised adaptive nano (or one thermic T2 active and one energised adaptive if you want well rounded resists). (those crazy named things are COSMOS items that have reduced powergrid reqs and the same stats as T2) The sac has 1000 base grid, times 1.25 for level 5 of the grid skill = 1250. 4 'Strigoi' Medium Nosferatu I = 4 * 158 = 632 Grid. 1250-632=618. -20 for the two small nos II leaves 598 grid. 3 x meditation repairers = 135 * 3 = 405. 598-405 leaves 193 grid. -165 for the T2 mwd = 28 grid left for everything else. With that setup, you can run the three repairers constantly and tank 600 DPS on average from any damage type until your opponent runs out of cap, at which stage they're dead in the water and can't tank. You have no offensive capability at all unless you count three light drones. As part of a gang, you can lock a ship down completely with one of these and you'll be bloody hard to kill. Or use an interdictor, ** out a bubble and run. Seriously, it's suppose to be a Heavy Assault Cruiser**, not tackler. _ __ WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran
nissan altima	Posted - 2006.03.04 03:09:00 - [60] Originally by: Semkhet Many posts in this thread reflect an appalling lack of creativity. The Sacrilege is superior to the Zealot in 8 areas: - Better natural armor resists. - Better radar sensor strength. - 4th mid slot. - Drone bay. - Not limited to EM/Thermal damage. - All the highs can be fitted with weapons. - Bigger capacitor. - Faster capacitor recharge rate. Therefore: 4x Hvy Pulse Laser II 2x Hvy Malkuth launchers 1x AB II 1x J5b Phased Proto Warp Inhibitor 1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor 1x Hypnos Multispec or a named racial jammer 2x HS II 1x Armor Thermic Hardener II 1x Refuge Adaptive Nano Plating I 1x Medium Accomodation Vestment Reconstructer Drones 5x Acolyte TD-300 (each drone inflicts -5% tracking, -5% range). Fits with advanced weap upg. lvl4 and -3% turret cpu implant: 3.92 PG / 1.15 CPU left Just replace the multispec with an "Umbra" White Noise, and you get 55% chances to jam the pathetic Zealot's 13 points radar strength at each cycle. And we all know that a jammed Zealot is'n going to hurt a fly. Still convinced that the Sac is useless ? LMAO... My eyes...they burn

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