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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.03.04 11:56:00 -
[1]
Lets get one thing clear here
This has been debated a LOT of times before and IMHO isnt going to change
Enuogh whining about WCS already.
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.17 14:54:00 -
[2]
Damn this topis is STILL going after nearly 2 months. Surely a record.  
WCS are fine the way they are. I know. Lots of times lots of people have escaped with their ships. I've been there when a stabbed up ship escapes and it sucks. On the flip side I have also flown in combat ships with stabs. Its never saved me but there have been times when it would have saved me if I'd had stabs.  Those are the breaks I guess
The confusion seems to lie with the feeling the WCS are I-Win modules. Infact nothing could be further from the truth. Nobody ever won a fight because they had a stab or 6 on. All stabs ever do is force a draw. No-one wins no-one loses. If you take the "win criteria" to be destruction of a ship. If there is any "moral voctory then surely that goes to the pilot who didn't warp out. As stabs do nothing for your combat defesive or offensive capabilty then if you win with a stab you will win without one
I've been a carebear I've flown in fleet ops and I'm now a pirate. I've seen WCS from both sides of the fence. There have been times when I've said "<expletive of choice > is stabbed and got away the <insert more expletives>." And once or twice in noncombat ships I've said "thank goodness I had stabs on"
Leave them as they are.
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.23 19:37:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Vargrh
After the Devs joked around and gave burn eden that warp core stab II as a prize for completing the riddle competition... I imagine a lot of carebears have come close to releasing their gametes into their respective underwear in anticipation of Kali and reverse engineering. 
I think we can safely say Burn Eden have "won" their own personal Eve for getting the WCS II
Anyone know the stats on that thing just out of interest?
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated. |
Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.24 22:29:00 -
[4]
You know Lorth you keep writing essays and I got to admit they were too long to hold my attention after the third essay you wrote however one thing did catch my eye.
Your last post says that a midslot gimp i.e. scramblers is wors then a lowslot gimp i.e. WCS. Now while I disagree with you in some cases (apoc for example) this has some merit.
My point is that I dont belive you can provide me with a case where a setup has its offensive or combat defensive capability increased by fitting a WCS.
Surely then if they choose not to fight that is up to them. They are not helping their chance in a fight just ensuring they get away from a losing fight. This makes them the smart one for fitting WCS because they have escaped from a situation where they would have lost.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated. |
Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.27 11:10:00 -
[5]
Can we just clear up the differemnce between win lose and draw here.
From Dictionary.com
Win : To achieve victory or finish first in a competition.
Lose : To be defeated.
Draw : To end or leave (a contest) tied or undecided.
Therefore in combat between two ship to win would mean you destroyed your opponents ship. To lose would mean your opponent destroyed your ship. To draw means that neither ship was destroyed. Obviously multiship engagements are a different case.
The people bleating about losing because they did not destroy their opponents ships are plain wrong. Its not a loss its a draw. Its not a victory for the person who was stabbed as he/she did not destroy your ship.
For the purpose of this post I really don't care if you want all WCS to be hi-slot modules and all scrams to be ten point low-slot modules with a range of 200km and a built in 99% webber but please can we gat way from "I lost because he warped off mentality". It's plain wrong and shows how simple minded you have become in your pursuit of nerfing WCS so that it suits you and people who fight how you do.
If someone warps from an engagement you draw. Let me repeat that for those of you having a problem understanding. When you fail to pin someone down because they are stabbed then its a draw. Niehter a loss nor a win for either side. Nobody has to go and buy a new ship and nobody has to see the inside of a clonebay.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated. |
Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.27 21:46:00 -
[6]
Where in my above post did I say WCS gimp your setup?
If you fly without WCS that is your choice but lets get one thing crystal clear here. You cannot under any circumstances say your opponents Offensive or Combat defensive capabilities were enhanced in any way by WCS. All they do is allow you to escape a losing engagement.
Saying you lost an engagement because unlike your opponent you had no WCS means nothing. WCS Only allows you to run away and if your opponent beat you then he didn't run away did he. Your comment shows a serious lack of understanding of ship fitting. Nobody ever lost a ship purely because their opponent fitted WCS.
If you had said you lost an engagement because unlike your opponent you had no damage mods i.e. Heatsinks fitted that would have made sense as heatsinks improve yout offensive capability. If you had said you lost an engaement because unlike yout opponent you had no 1600mm Plates on that would have made sense because plates improve your combat defensive abilty.
Note the use of the term "combat defensive" rather than just "defensive" Strictly speaking a WCS is a defensive module in that running away can be seen as a defence. Combat defensive modules are modules that allow you to either prevent your opponent hitting you such as sensor dampers and tracking disruptors or allow you to take those hits better i.e. sheild hardners and plates.
Hope this helps you understand what WCS do and do not do.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated. |
Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.28 17:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nahia Senne
it is very easy. because of your lack of practical knowledge, you produce uneducated posts. you mostly rant. when someone asks you a question, you respond with even more of the same rants.
Its no secret that Lemming merangue is my alt. I used her for continuity sake.
My "lack of practical experience" lets talk about that for a moment
I assume you saw noob corp character and thought "Must be a carebear miner" Naturally you had no way of knowing I flew with the fleet for many months for two alliances. You also had no way of knowing I hunted pirates in empire before I turned pirate myself. In near two and half years I have spent about half that time doing more PvP than anything else. I've done the tackling and I have been the BS following up the tacklers.
Yes. Please lets talk about my lack of practical experience. Care to elaborate on the details?
FWIW I have succesfu;;y tackled in cruisers plenty of times with 7.5km scrams on so Lorth is wrong in his assertion that 7.5km scrams are useless on anything except frigs. I will however accept there is no point fitting them to a BS. So what? Thats what the interceptor and AF tacklers are for.
At the end of the day if someone got away then fair play they fitted well enough and deserve it. Likewise if I get ganked then fair play to them for spotting I was vulnerable to their supeiror force and taking the opportunity.
As for the balance issue. Disagree. Its not perfect but it is workable therefore leave it alone and deal with the more pressing issues that eve has atm.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.28 23:52:00 -
[8]
If you have any doubts as to the PvP abilities of myself and Apocalypse Enterprises you are of course welcome to come over to Aridia and lower Syndicate where we operate but as for how would I do this that or the other? Please. Spare me here.
IMO every ship has its set up and its counter and no setup is "uber" Give me a set up and I'll give you a counter. Unlike Lorth I dont believe that every one setup should have a counter of one ship. That by definition is an oxymoron. If every setup has a counter by one ship then surely you get to the point where someone has to say "OK I cant counter that with one ship". To me taking 3 interceptors to tackle and 1 BS to provide the punch is just fine. I Know you and Lorth dont like it but its called teamwork. This is after all a multiplayer game. You dont have to agree with me but just accept that I personally have no problem with this.
I like a couple of other contributors to this thread have great interest in what your solution to the great WCS debate is. So don't be shy lets here its and please dont say "See the rest of the thread" theres over 600 posts and I aint about to read them all. Only exception to this is if you are (as I suspect) Lorths alt. In which case I already know your answer.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.29 09:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dexus
theres a 20+ page thread full of complaints about WCS...doesnt that give you the slightest hint theres a problem 
I suggest you read the thread then give some reasons for WCS to stay as they are so I can add the ideas to my little list. If your sole purpose is to flame in my thread without contributing anything, can you please leave my thread?
Nope. Its 20 pages of discussion several of the contributors to this thread have said leave WCS the way they are. This includes a number of PvPers like me.
At the end of the day though I doubt we can resolve this to the satisfaction of the majority. I'm sure there is an element that want there to be no WCS and for scramblers to work at 300km and be lowslot modules with fitting of 1 grid and 1 cpu. Conversely there will be the extreme carebear element who want 1 WCS to make you invincible from scrams and add 50% to all resists. In the middle there are people prepared to enter reasoned debate. Unfortunately I really doubt you could get even 50% of the population of Eve to agree to any changes.
WCS nerfing threads have been around since about an hour after WCS and in that time little has changed. It just so happens that WCS is one of the favourite threads currently. This will change and in a couple months something else will be the favoutite thread. This is the very nature of the forums we all post on.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.29 17:03:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Mrmuttley on 29/05/2006 17:05:20
If your going to make changes to WCS / Scrams then my personal favorite is seriously increase the range of scrams to about 50km or more but at that range there would be little chance of a succesful scramble. However at 1km a scramble would be all but gauranteed. WCS would improve your chances per module but at 1km even with 8 WCS you would still have say 50% chance of scrambling someone with 2 scrams. Remove the two point 7.5 km scrams as they would no longer be needed. The tackler role would still exist fitting two scrams to an Assault Frigate would still be viable although some moderate cap use would be needed to make it fair.
Hawk Loadout would probably look something like
Hi dual small nos and weapons of choice
Med two scrams AB and webber
Low own WCS or fitting/cap mods
Tactic is the same as now Light of the AB and close. Weapons are less than important but Nos to keep all your modules active. But unlike now where you hang out at 6km to avoid SB you now have to make the choice. Close for a better scram chance or stay at range for the SB safety.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.29 21:49:00 -
[11]
Replying to such loaded question would acheive little
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.30 06:53:00 -
[12]
I Dont like team sports much. I prefer mototsport where quite often you favourite driver may have a technical advantage or disadvantage.
As for ganking you told me to learn from Lorth and he said 8 times in his posts that there are many many ways to avoid combat in game so I guess no-one needs to get ganked unless they want to or are stupid.
That aside I going to press you on this one. Where is your suggestion. You told me to contribute a suggestion and I have. Its now your turn. Quid pro quo.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.30 07:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nahia Senne
make it impossible to fit wcs and scramblers on the same ship. proposed by weirda, and parroted by me on many occasions as simple and effective.
Is that seriously the best idea you can come up with after so much discussion?
The vast mojority of people who are unhappy with WCS seem to thing the biggest problem is the "how can
I pin one person with a full rack of stabs down with my one ship and still be able to kill them" Prohibiting the fitting of WCS and scrams on the same ship does not help that problem at all.
Haulers dont generally fit scrams neither do belt miners and NPC hunters, The only people who fir scrams are people out looking for kills themselves. These are not the people most of the people in favour of nerfing WCS have an issue with.
So on that basis care to elborate and give your theory a little more thought?
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.30 08:30:00 -
[14]
In all my time playing I honestly dont think I ever saw a heavily stabbed ship with a scram fitted. If someone is fitting high numbers of scrams and WCS then they are going to have such a gimped ship that they will probably only be fitting the lightest possible weapons of the class suitable for their ship. They may even find themselves having to fit from the class below i.e. heavy frigate weapons on a light cruiser.
Where did the comment about killing afk miners come from? I doubt you or me or anyone else has any problem killing someone who is AFK. If you are then no flame intended you are not ready for fleet / gang PvP
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.05.30 10:30:00 -
[15]
I think this is where we agree to disagree you are never going to agree with anything I say as you seem to see me as a forum troll rather than someone with a point of view.
Your choice I guess.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.06.16 14:01:00 -
[16]
IIRC CCP have said they will be altering WCS in Kali
I can't find the actual post and the results list of any search on WCS is .... Ummm ... shall we say over crowded.
Suffice to say my understanding is that WCS nerfers are not going to get all their wishes i.e. No WCS and Scram fit prohibition / WCS Stacking penalties / Cap penalty. If all the WCS nerfers demands were accepted then WCS might was well be removed from game thus prompting the situation where removing scrams from game was the next logical step.
However WCS are apparently going to get a combat penalty. I presume this means a drop in ROF or range or locking speed / range. Sorry but the 7 stab BS will still apparently be possible.
Dont get too excited as I don't belive for a second this will stop the WCS whining but it may cut the volume of whining a bit.
HTH bring this thread to some sort of conclusion and yes i will edit this post if I find the relevant dev post.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.06.16 14:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Flaming sambuka
Look how old this thread is!!! dont bring it up again ffs grrr
If I didn't someone else would have. Unfortunately WCS whining is always going to go one because both sides of the debate belive with an almost religious fanaticism that they are right.
As long as people are being constructive and not simply repeating what they said 10 hours ago then this thread is OK
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2006.06.19 12:15:00 -
[18]
XL warp disruptor I
Fitting 1000 grid and 80 cpu
100 cap per cycle
Scram strength +4
25% penalty to targetting speed per module fitted (to prevent the gate gankers getting it easy.
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I am Dyslexic of Borg.
Your ass will be laminated.
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Eve is not supposed to be fair
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