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Razakon
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Posted - 2003.09.05 20:56:00 -
[1]
I am sure a thread was started about this, but I am at work and cannot search for it.
How is this fair?
A players takes the risk of being podded, ventures out to Known choke point and Bottlenecks, Invest his time while the pirates are sleeping. His reward an easy escape from gate camping pirates.
CCP in their efforts to keep the Game a pirate game decides to answer the cries of the pirates that some people warps in  , then just jump to next system.
Instead of telling the pirates to come up with ways to stop this, they decide to stop it for them.
Why can't the pirates be more tactical? Why can't they patrol the system to see where people are jumping from, why just make their lives easier while trying to stop the Honest players from earning a living.
Everytime the honest players get a leg up, CCP cuts it off.
No Wonder there are so much pirate outfits.
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.05 22:17:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 05/09/2003 22:21:35
 Quote:
A players takes the risk of being podded, ventures out to Known choke point and Bottlenecks, Invest his time while the pirates are sleeping. His reward an easy escape from gate camping pirates.
There is very minimal risk involved in flying around in a 10,000 isk shuttle setting bookmarks.
Quote:
CCP in their efforts to keep the Game a pirate game decides to answer the cries of the pirates that some people warps in , then just jump to next system.
This is not a pirate game. Pirating is one of many facets of this game - and one which CCP is dedicated to maintaining as a viable profession.
Quote:
Instead of telling the pirates to come up with ways to stop this, they decide to stop it for them
Well, the problem you see is that there IS NO WAY to stop this. Players can warp to their Bookmark and enter the jumpgate before pirates even have a chance to target lock them.
Without target lock, what possible course of action do you expect them to take? Ask you nicely not to jump to safety?
Quote:
Why can't they patrol the system to see where people are jumping from
What would this accomplish? Knowing where people are entering a system is not helpful - stopping them from leaving is.
Quote:
How is this fair?
How is it fair that Bookmarks essentially eliminate pirating as a viable profession? You tell me.
Essentially, Bookmarks were never meant to be used in this manner. There's a reason you exit warp kilometers away from a jumpgate - and bookmarks defeat the purpose of this feature.
If you can't survive a blockade long enough to reach a jumpgate, then I recommend remaining in higher security space until your ship is equipped with enough shield/armor or boosters to help you survive.
Also, take the time to use your map and look at the data on destroyed ships and pods. There is a reason this information is available to you - use it to avoid dangerous areas. Also look at the Local channel when you enter a system. If you see 10 "Wanted" people from a single corporation - good guess is they are waiting for you at a jumpgate. Maybe you should leave the way you came in, and take a different route or wait for them to leave - or better yet go gather up a group of friends and BREAK the blockade!
You alread have plenty of tools at your disposal for surviving without lamer wussy jumpgate bookmarks! =)
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Noctoz
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Posted - 2003.09.05 22:59:00 -
[3]
I was about to start screaming and flaming but as someone already put down what I whould be saying I will spare myself the effort.
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NoctoZ
Black Reign
Curse Alliance |
Ganja
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Posted - 2003.09.05 23:16:00 -
[4]
Well I didn't read much of your post.. just that bit about some people whined about getting killed by pirates..
Yeah, you can thank them. Because they opened their trap and were like "Ok, well next time I'll make sure to have a bookmark handy.."
Carebears ruin it for carebears.. hah.
Anyways, CCP can't please the Carebears 100% of the time, as the pirates like myself and Noctoz, are paying customers, too.
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Razakon
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Posted - 2003.09.06 00:14:00 -
[5]
If you notice the only people that have a problem is the pirates. So with that I won't even respond to that stupid arse flamer
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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2003.09.06 00:32:00 -
[6]
Actually its not just the pirates that have a problem with the bookmarks. Anyone trying to stop someone escaping needs this fixed and that includes pirate hunters and people at war.
Imagine this:
Your corp has just build its first space station and you hear a fleet of hostile ships are coming to take over your newest creation. You get your fleet together and guard the entrance only to have the attacking ships jump to a bookmark and get past you without you being able to do a single thing. Next thing you know they're capturing your station.
Would you be happy? Fixing instajump is badly needed.
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.06 00:56:00 -
[7]
Quote:
If you notice the only people that have a problem is the pirates. So with that I won't even respond to that stupid arse flamer
Well I'm not a pirate and never intend to be one so how do you explain me disagreeing with you completely and totally?
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
cball
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Posted - 2003.09.06 01:19:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Actually its not just the pirates that have a problem with the bookmarks. Anyone trying to stop someone escaping needs this fixed and that includes pirate hunters and people at war.
Imagine this:
Your corp has just build its first space station and you hear a fleet of hostile ships are coming to take over your newest creation. You get your fleet together and guard the entrance only to have the attacking ships jump to a bookmark and get past you without you being able to do a single thing. Next thing you know they're capturing your station.
Would you be happy? Fixing instajump is badly needed.
..what????
There are NO player owned or created stations, and if you are building one later it is best to either be ready, have a guard set up, or wait.
Trying to validate the nerfing of bm's that will only aid pirates is a load of b-s. If you fight they can not use a gate as is, so how is this helping the traveler, the trader, or anyone else other then the pirates and griefers???????????
...fear the evil monkey in your hanger...
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Gildon
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Posted - 2003.09.06 01:22:00 -
[9]
I completely agree that this is bad.
UNLESS they give me an option to SET my autopilot to STOP anywhere I want.
Pirates SITTING where you drop out (and I may add are FORCED to drop out) is the problem.
If I could set it to 50km or 100km or 57km etc., I don't have any problem with this, because I get to control my ship.
To change this without ADDING anything is completely CCP idiotic.
To change this and GIVE me the ability to set autopilot....I'm all for it.
Gil
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cball
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Posted - 2003.09.06 01:36:00 -
[10]
Quote:
I completely agree that this is bad.
UNLESS they give me an option to SET my autopilot to STOP anywhere I want.
Pirates SITTING where you drop out (and I may add are FORCED to drop out) is the problem.
If I could set it to 50km or 100km or 57km etc., I don't have any problem with this, because I get to control my ship.
To change this without ADDING anything is completely CCP idiotic.
To change this and GIVE me the ability to set autopilot....I'm all for it.
Gil
The ability to cancel a warp would also be the needed countermeasure. If you sent a scout ahead, they see pirates, they can still warn the others in time to stop the warp and regroup elsewhere.
CCP should stop the movement to forced conflict, and allow the players to decide if they want to fight or not.
...fear the evil monkey in your hanger...
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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2003.09.06 02:52:00 -
[11]
Quote:
..what????
There are NO player owned or created stations, and if you are building one later it is best to either be ready, have a guard set up, or wait.
There many not be any stations now but there will be in the future. Just because there are no stations now doesnt affect the point I'm making. You say we should have a guard, please re-read my post as I included a guarding force was there. Having a guard is no good if the attacker can just BM right past it and jump into your system. The best place to guard is the gate that leads into a system. BM's and instajump make it impossible to guard.
Quote:
Trying to validate the nerfing of bm's that will only aid pirates is a load of b-s.
Ok how about a current situation I have to deal with almost daly. Stopping pirates or battlefleets trying to get into fountain to kill my buddies and our miners. Almost the gates into fountain are instajump. Trying to stop pirates or a war fleet just wont happen until they decide to stop and fight you. Were trying to protect our members from pirates/war and we cant do it effectivly because of instajump. BM's are the same. I've lost count of the number of pirates that have just warped right past our blockades because of bookmarks.
Quote:
If you fight they can not use a gate as is, so how is this helping the traveler, the trader, or anyone else other then the pirates and griefers???????????
Sorry you're wrong. Unless they return fire they can still use the jumpgate. How about you go to a gate and try to stop pirates getting into your home system to kill your friends b4 you say this fix is only good for pirates and griefers.
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cball
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Posted - 2003.09.06 02:57:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Quote:
..what????
There are NO player owned or created stations, and if you are building one later it is best to either be ready, have a guard set up, or wait.
There many not be any stations now but there will be in the future. Just because there are no stations now doesnt affect the point I'm making. You say we should have a guard, please re-read my post as I included a guarding force was there. Having a guard is no good if the attacker can just BM right past it and jump into your system. The best place to guard is the gate that leads into a system. BM's and instajump make it impossible to guard.
Quote:
Trying to validate the nerfing of bm's that will only aid pirates is a load of b-s.
Ok how about a current situation I have to deal with almost daly. Stopping pirates or battlefleets trying to get into fountain to kill my buddies and our miners. Almost the gates into fountain are instajump. Trying to stop pirates or a war fleet just wont happen until they decide to stop and fight you. Were trying to protect our members from pirates/war and we cant do it effectivly because of instajump. BM's are the same. I've lost count of the number of pirates that have just warped right past our blockades because of bookmarks.
Quote:
If you fight they can not use a gate as is, so how is this helping the traveler, the trader, or anyone else other then the pirates and griefers???????????
Sorry you're wrong. Unless they return fire they can still use the jumpgate. How about you go to a gate and try to stop pirates getting into your home system to kill your friends b4 you say this fix is only good for pirates and griefers.
Fighting takes both parties, so I am correct, attacking takes only 1 agressor...and as I have said before, adapt. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen... (why aren't you guarding your buddies where they are, instead of trying to blockade a bunch of pirates at a gate?? If players can use the bm trick, so can pirates, DUH!
...fear the evil monkey in your hanger...
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Serak Tur
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Posted - 2003.09.06 05:03:00 -
[13]
In response to EveJunkie and guarding a station. Wouldn't it be better (or at least as good) to just guard the station? They still have to come to you and you would have the advantage of static defenses such as senty guns. Presumably player owned sentry guns will be introduced before stations (i.e. mobile refineries etc.).
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.09.06 05:08:00 -
[14]
That gate bookmark thing is a goddamn exploit, and it has been since beta. Good thing its being removed, we'll be shooting down all those smack talking bookmark carebears! GO CCP GO!
-
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Kennian
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Posted - 2003.09.06 09:09:00 -
[15]
while i am lothe to agree with the vermin that pass for "pirates" in this game, it is unfortunate that CCP has decided to change the mechanics of warping to gates, useing bookmarks. that being said however, this is a clasic case of jumping to conclusions.
Tomb has stated that, yes, the bookmarks will be nerfed, BUT they will NOT BE NERFED untill new and viable methods of blockade running are introduced. makeing this change basicly hands the entire universe over to the griefers that pass for pirates in this game. so there has to be something counterbalanceing it...
] |
Roba
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Posted - 2003.09.06 09:22:00 -
[16]
Man I am gonna love this nerf. Sin guys won't be able to run from FA.
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KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2003.09.06 11:41:00 -
[17]
Combat is a joke at the moment.
This will help loads. There's no danger at the moment as far as traders are concerned.
It should help balance the market, and ensure fair battles.
---
Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
cball
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Posted - 2003.09.06 12:20:00 -
[18]
Quote:
That gate bookmark thing is a goddamn exploit, and it has been since beta. Good thing its being removed, we'll be shooting down all those smack talking bookmark carebears! GO CCP GO!
Troll
...fear the evil monkey in your hanger...
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loci
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Posted - 2003.09.06 12:26:00 -
[19]
Edited by: loci on 06/09/2003 12:28:41
Quote:
That gate bookmark thing is a goddamn exploit, and it has been since beta. Good thing its being removed, we'll be shooting down all those smack talking bookmark carebears! GO CCP GO!
just like the safe points u bookmark...
****er
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Booky
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Posted - 2003.09.06 12:32:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Quote:
If you notice the only people that have a problem is the pirates. So with that I won't even respond to that stupid arse flamer
Well I'm not a pirate and never intend to be one so how do you explain me disagreeing with you completely and totally?
Easy, your a Woman, or doing a damn good job roleplaying one 
Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post. |
Darketh Nightspawn
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Posted - 2003.09.06 12:51:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 05/09/2003 22:21:35
Quote:
A players takes the risk of being podded, ventures out to Known choke point and Bottlenecks, Invest his time while the pirates are sleeping. His reward an easy escape from gate camping pirates.
There is very minimal risk involved in flying around in a 10,000 isk shuttle setting bookmarks.
So... unlike other trades... if you take the time to make you life easier this is unnaceptable.... (unlike sitting at gates with a group of friends, or worse, camping drop in points in your blackbirds exploiting the system load time lag to scramble and kill people).
Quote:
CCP in their efforts to keep the Game a pirate game decides to answer the cries of the pirates that some people warps in , then just jump to next system.
This is not a pirate game. Pirating is one of many facets of this game - and one which CCP is dedicated to maintaining as a viable profession.
Translation - The large pirate Corps... (mostly formed of long standing players) decided they needed something to make their life even easier than it is and garauntee kills.... as going out and finding targets takes to much time
Quote:
Instead of telling the pirates to come up with ways to stop this, they decide to stop it for them
Well, the problem you see is that there IS NO WAY to stop this. Players can warp to their Bookmark and enter the jumpgate before pirates even have a chance to target lock them.
Without target lock, what possible course of action do you expect them to take? Ask you nicely not to jump to safety?
They can go and find people... maybe THEY shoudl also take a risk...maybe if they entered empire space (without exploiting a bug) and come after their targets I would have respect for your argument....
Quote:
Why can't they patrol the system to see where people are jumping from
What would this accomplish? Knowing where people are entering a system is not helpful - stopping them from leaving is.
This is *******s..... there are several corps who now camp the drop in points...as you can be locked and warped scrambled as soon as your ship appears, you dont even know your being targetted until the load time is over...as this is done with Blackbirds you can kiss your ship goodbye because ot the ridiculous stacking rules on the jammers your gonna be dead.
Quote:
How is this fair?
How is it fair that Bookmarks essentially eliminate pirating as a viable profession? You tell me.
*******s.... Pirates can go and find their targets the same way as Miners go and find theirs....
Essentially, Bookmarks were never meant to be used in this manner. There's a reason you exit warp kilometers away from a jumpgate - and bookmarks defeat the purpose of this feature.
No there is no reason other than CCP put it in there....
If you can't survive a blockade long enough to reach a jumpgate, then I recommend remaining in higher security space until your ship is equipped with enough shield/armor or boosters to help you survive.
Nothing worth commenting on here.
Obviously you
Also, take the time to use your map and look at the data on destroyed ships and pods. There is a reason this information is available to you - use it to avoid dangerous areas. Also look at the Local channel when you enter a system. If you see 10 "Wanted" people from a single corporation - good guess is they are waiting for you at a jumpgate. Maybe you should leave the way you came in, and take a different route or wait for them to leave - or better yet go gather up a group of friends and BREAK the blockade!
You alread have plenty of tools at your disposal for surviving without lamer wussy jumpgate bookmarks! =)
And this comment actually sums you up.... you try to justify something...then as your argument is really pretty poor, you finally fall back on the ...your using a 'lame wuss' tactic argument...
CCP listens (as long as your a group of long standing players) and now intend making it TOTALLY impossible to run a blockade, you say piratign should be a viable option (I agree it should)...well so should blockade running.... Unfortunately CCP has made it so both ends of a system can now be effectively camped and closed off...it is no longer a risk (and even with bookmarks ships have been knocked off) it will now be suicide to even consider it.
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Trianon Starstealer
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Posted - 2003.09.06 12:53:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Quote:
..what????
There are NO player owned or created stations, and if you are building one later it is best to either be ready, have a guard set up, or wait.
There many not be any stations now but there will be in the future. Just because there are no stations now doesnt affect the point I'm making. You say we should have a guard, please re-read my post as I included a guarding force was there. Having a guard is no good if the attacker can just BM right past it and jump into your system. The best place to guard is the gate that leads into a system. BM's and instajump make it impossible to guard.
Quote:
Trying to validate the nerfing of bm's that will only aid pirates is a load of b-s.
Ok how about a current situation I have to deal with almost daly. Stopping pirates or battlefleets trying to get into fountain to kill my buddies and our miners. Almost the gates into fountain are instajump. Trying to stop pirates or a war fleet just wont happen until they decide to stop and fight you. Were trying to protect our members from pirates/war and we cant do it effectivly because of instajump. BM's are the same. I've lost count of the number of pirates that have just warped right past our blockades because of bookmarks.
Quote:
If you fight they can not use a gate as is, so how is this helping the traveler, the trader, or anyone else other then the pirates and griefers???????????
Sorry you're wrong. Unless they return fire they can still use the jumpgate. How about you go to a gate and try to stop pirates getting into your home system to kill your friends b4 you say this fix is only good for pirates and griefers.
Even if you have been in combat it is still possible to use the jump gates.... just have to know how.
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Trianon Starstealer
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Posted - 2003.09.06 12:55:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If you notice the only people that have a problem is the pirates. So with that I won't even respond to that stupid arse flamer
Well I'm not a pirate and never intend to be one so how do you explain me disagreeing with you completely and totally?
Easy, your a Woman, or doing a damn good job roleplaying one
LOL.....
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zoop
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Posted - 2003.09.06 13:00:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Even if you have been in combat it is still possible to use the jump gates.... just have to know how.
and have you reported this exploit?
----------------------------
*My God, it's full of gimps*
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Trianon Starstealer
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Posted - 2003.09.06 13:09:00 -
[25]
Woudl you like me to??????
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Erick Thakrar
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Posted - 2003.09.06 13:43:00 -
[26]
Recent situation, Egbinger. Space Invaders and some other corp by the name of Zombies something or other were blockading it and they were waiting at the jump-in point. Corp mate lost a bestower. Not trying to run a blockade, not using a bookmark, but just by jumping in to the system. By the time the system loaded he was in a pod. By the time he had selected a destination, his clone was already stepping out of the vat. What's fair about that? And why hasn't that particular exploit been taken care of? And yes, it is an exploit. insta-jump bookmarks are the vast majority of the time the ONLY WAY A TRADER OR HAULER HAS TO MAKE IT PAST A BLOCKADE! And now they're gonna take it away? Frelling dren-eaters. Thanks.
I'm all for pirates, since I think they add a nice element of spice to the game and keeps you on your toes, but there has to be a way out for you. Right now that way out is the insta-jump bookmarks. Take that away and they will effectively have handed the pirates the tool to completely gank thousands of players. With no chance of escape. First they took away in-warp activation of ab's and MWD's. Now they're taking away yet another tool that non-combatants were using to defend themselves. We might as well just line up inside the stations and take the shot between the eyes right there. Save us all some time.
Ya Hya Chouhada!!! |
Trianon Starstealer
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Posted - 2003.09.06 14:06:00 -
[27]
Same thing here, lost a cruiser... This is part of the game apparently.....
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Noctoz
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Posted - 2003.09.06 15:01:00 -
[28]
Ok lets take this slooooowly so that everyone can follow.
There is NOT supposed to be any foolproof safe way for a lone trader to pass a blockade.
That space is SUPPOSED to be dangerous.
If you as a trader wants to go through this kind of space then hire escort or take into account what the pirates will require as a toll. People paying tolls ARE allowed to pass contrary to what some whiners that frequently post on these boards state.
Also saying that nerfing bookmarks will make it impossible to run blockades is an outright lie. Fit hardeners and ABs/MWDs or some other nice stuff and you can do it. Sure it will require some planning and to be prepared but FOR GODS SAKE, do you really expect to be able to go pass lawless teritory in a flying container!!
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NoctoZ
Black Reign
Curse Alliance |
Valeria
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Posted - 2003.09.06 15:04:00 -
[29]
Rofl. The point of a blockade is that you shouldn't be able to get through. If blockades actually worked, you would be able to charge your victims to allow them to pass. But with all these carebear exploits, there's no time for that so you'll just have to attempt to blast as many pods as you can to teach them a lesson.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Trianon Starstealer
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Posted - 2003.09.06 15:18:00 -
[30]
OK.... lets take this even slower...so the people who are having a hard time READING the posts can actually do so..
I have NO problem with blockaded gates.... this is part of the game and I except it.
I DO have a problem with being warped scrambled, Jammed and half dead BEFORE my ship appears on the screen when I jump INTO a system is totally unreasonable.
Next - Blockades have never in any historical sense been effective, this is a total misconception, The problem is, a very influential minority of the players are trying to make them 100% effective. I think they should be difficult to run (and I actually agree that bookmarks make this way to easy), and people should accept they may be killed..... but it has to be BALANCED.
Being able to drop out of warp before the gate (several hunderd KM) and group up with your friends would be an option... or just to see if the gate was guarded and give you a chance to run the other way!
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