It's actually kind of sad that we've gotten to the point where "fixing" the phoenix means allowing it to use rails as it's weapon system instead. IMO the ship doesn't need it's bonuses changed, it needs capital launchers to be fixed. Problem is, CCP has stated that they're worried about crossing the fine line of capital launchers working as intended, and capital launchers being ridiculously OP with webs and TP's factored into the situation. I have no idea where to begin a suggestion to fix the problem honestly. Pretty sure CCPs said that they were looking at some changes for the phoenix with the rubicon update but decided that they didn't like how it was balancing out, so they're putting it off till the capital rebalance (which I think they also said will be the last rebalance they are going to do after pirate faction and T3's).

Fixing the Phoenix would mean addressing the problems with missiles.
Instead we'll probably see CCP40sec (formerly CCP Rise) "balance" the Phoenix into the same oblivion as the Drake.
The next expansion, "Oblivion" sees the balancing off all Caldari/missile ships right out of the game.

How about fixing Citadel missiles instead? Another hybrid dread seems pointless to me.

issues this has not even gotten the ccp stamp of soon^TM.


Also if I recall in one of the few pheonix threads that a dev posted (I'd have t dig it up) in they are real hesistant to changing the recipe for either missiles in general or ship bonuses for phoenix to get them to work better.

While it would be nice, ccp opened up pandora's box with nag. A missile tweak would have worked jsut as well to make nag pilots happier. Fix nag (with missiles) , fix phoenix all in one fell swoop....it would have been an achievement to be proud of. CCP opted for pure guns. If they can't make the former work the latter did the trick. Worked once, not seeing why a second try won't.

I think for many of us we'll take whatever works to get up and running well faster. May as well be guns. I am 1 of many caldari pilots (combat char is caldari) who when it came time to find a cap race said well now is as good a time as any to x-train out. We learn guns anyway in this x-train if for whatever reason we did not fly rokhs (i already did so support skills in place already), why not have it in the caldari family.

[quote=Zan Shiro][quote=Zvaarian the Red]
And all those people who have trained citadel missiles can just get ******? Is that it?

I don't get what's so scary about an across-the-board 10% buff to explosion velocity and radius for citadel missiles. Does anyone really think that would make the Phoenix overpowered? Seriously?

+3 Turret hardpoints, don't remove the launchers, and change this:

Caldari Dreadnought Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per skill level
5% bonus to Capital Launcher rate of fire per skill level

to this:

Caldari Dreadnought Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to Capital Launcher and Capital Hybrid Turret damage per skill level
4% bonus to shield resistances per skill level

Now it's usable without just being a Caldari Moros and people who trained their capital launcher skills can still use them. It would deal the least damage of the dreads, but it would be the tankiest, be more adaptable which has it's own uses and wouldn't have that lame kinetic damage bonus.

Discuss.

And all those people who have trained citadel missiles can just get ******? Is that it?

I don't get what's so scary about an across-the-board 10% buff to explosion velocity and radius for citadel missiles. Does anyone really think that would make the Phoenix overpowered? Seriously?

wont work even with t2 siege and missles its cap wont even last 1/3 the siege cycle. so thats a god aweful idea to put more cap draning mods onto it

And all those people who have trained citadel missiles can just get ******? Is that it?

I don't get what's so scary about an across-the-board 10% buff to explosion velocity and radius for citadel missiles. Does anyone really think that would make the Phoenix overpowered? Seriously?

Fixing the Phoenix would mean addressing the problems with missiles.
Instead we'll probably see CCP40sec (formerly CCP Rise) "balance" the Phoenix into the same oblivion as the Drake.
The next expansion, "Oblivion" sees the balancing off all Caldari/missile ships right out of the game.

dont worry, the amarr line is being rebalanced to fill the missile ship lines youll lose with caldari, because fixing the glaring issues with lasers is "too hard"

Fixing the Phoenix would mean addressing the problems with missiles.
Instead we'll probably see CCP40sec (formerly CCP Rise) "balance" the Phoenix into the same oblivion as the Drake.
The next expansion, "Oblivion" sees the balancing off all Caldari/missile ships right out of the game.

Is it terrible that I really hope this nickname catches on?

Is it terrible that I really hope this nickname catches on?

could have been avoided not putting that timer in. What happens when you burn a full clip and target not dead? Question apparently not asked in meetings.

I guess Veto was so crap hot they the never reloaded in mid-battle once. Veto being a corp ccp pulled quite a few peeps from. So it not like ccp doesn't hire pvp'ers with some degree of skill.

The solution is not to make the Phoenix a gunboat, it is that capital missiles (and perhaps missiles in general) are in need of being reworked.

The problem is how to do that without turning them OP. And to this day nobody has found the optimal solution, yet. Perhaps the whole missile mechanics should be reworked. I'm creating a topic just for throwing in another idea, but I don't know if it wold work well.

The solution is not to make the Phoenix a gunboat, it is that capital missiles (and perhaps missiles in general) are in need of being reworked.

The problem is how to do that without turning them OP. And to this day nobody has found the optimal solution, yet. Perhaps the whole missile mechanics should be reworked. I'm creating a topic just for throwing in another idea, but I don't know if it wold work well.

People keep saying stuff like this about missiles in general and my response is always the same. Don't make massive changes all at once. When they nerfed heavy missiles for instance they nerfed damage 10%, explosion radius 12%, and range ~20%. When you nerf something that brutally it can quickly go from overpowered to underpowered. So yeah, if you buff citadel missiles in the same way you could quite possibly get an overpowered weapon. But really, you do not need to make such massive changes all at once. Buff explosion velocity and radius a mere 5% if you are concerned about this, and then see what happens. Then buff again if it's not enough, or revert the changes if such a change suddenly makes them overpowered (I can't imagine they would be). This isn't rocket science.