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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
128
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Posted - 2013.12.10 18:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
The problem with not having something like timer rollback is that it gives a huge disadvantage to the defender in his home system.
if the attacker plexes for 10 minutes in a 15minute capture plex in a low/non contested system then the defender has to deplex for 25 minutes to close that plex out for pretty much no lp.
Meanwhile the farmer has moved to the next plex and has started plexing that 15 minutes or even 20 minute plex.
Either the defender deplexes or he gives chase to get rid of the farmer
If he deplexes the farmer wins the other plex and starts another one on top of that.
If he doesn't the farmer just returns and finishes off the last few minutes and wins.
If he gives chase it involves a pretty ****** PvP fit to beat the guy especially around novices and smalls where you can't get the high alpha ships you need to be able to take them out without scrams coming out of the proverbial....
If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming. |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
129
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 18:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:Wouldn't the consequence of timer rollbacks be that one guy in a Dramiel (or most any other faction frigate) would be able to defend about ten systems from all solo T1 frigs? Basically, if the timer rolled back each time it would mean that anyone in a ship superior to a T1 frig could push any solo guys out of several plexes every single minute just by patrolling them and in a fast ship would be able to continually reset the timers in many systems. T1 frigs would be pretty much useless and bringing a bigger or better ship than a solo plexer would always be sufficient to secure as many timers as the bigger ship could reach within the countdown window. I just can't see that being viable.
Yeah but if there are 10 people in 10 plexes they should be able to take a dramiel don't you think? Maybe if they you know teamed up?
If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming. |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
129
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 18:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:RAW23 wrote:Wouldn't the consequence of timer rollbacks be that one guy in a Dramiel (or most any other faction frigate) would be able to defend about ten systems from all solo T1 frigs? Basically, if the timer rolled back each time it would mean that anyone in a ship superior to a T1 frig could push any solo guys out of several plexes every single minute just by patrolling them and in a fast ship would be able to continually reset the timers in many systems. T1 frigs would be pretty much useless and bringing a bigger or better ship than a solo plexer would always be sufficient to secure as many timers as the bigger ship could reach within the countdown window. I just can't see that being viable. You are absolutely correct. Basically very little farming would actually get done beyond a few people baiting for fights in plexes. This would have two outcomes:
- There would be less ISK made, and people would start abandoning FW because it would become too expensive.
- The warzone would barely move.
The net result: these same people who are QQcatting about farming would then be QQcatting about system control and lack of targets.
The warzone WOULD move however it will move due to pushes by people willing to engage in PvP and make the strategic moves not to whoever the famers are farming for this month.
If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming. |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
129
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 18:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:samualvimes wrote:RAW23 wrote:Wouldn't the consequence of timer rollbacks be that one guy in a Dramiel (or most any other faction frigate) would be able to defend about ten systems from all solo T1 frigs? Basically, if the timer rolled back each time it would mean that anyone in a ship superior to a T1 frig could push any solo guys out of several plexes every single minute just by patrolling them and in a fast ship would be able to continually reset the timers in many systems. T1 frigs would be pretty much useless and bringing a bigger or better ship than a solo plexer would always be sufficient to secure as many timers as the bigger ship could reach within the countdown window. I just can't see that being viable. Yeah but if there are 10 people in 10 plexes they should be able to take a dramiel don't you think? Maybe if they you know teamed up? Oh cool - then the Dramiel pilot wouldn't even have to warp into 10 plexes in order to rollback 10 plexes!
If those people all systematically took and held plexes and fought to hold them there wouldn't be any rollback....
If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming. |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
129
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 18:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Thanatos Marathon wrote:Xuixien wrote:samualvimes wrote:RAW23 wrote:Wouldn't the consequence of timer rollbacks be that one guy in a Dramiel (or most any other faction frigate) would be able to defend about ten systems from all solo T1 frigs? Basically, if the timer rolled back each time it would mean that anyone in a ship superior to a T1 frig could push any solo guys out of several plexes every single minute just by patrolling them and in a fast ship would be able to continually reset the timers in many systems. T1 frigs would be pretty much useless and bringing a bigger or better ship than a solo plexer would always be sufficient to secure as many timers as the bigger ship could reach within the countdown window. I just can't see that being viable. Yeah but if there are 10 people in 10 plexes they should be able to take a dramiel don't you think? Maybe if they you know teamed up? Oh cool - then the Dramiel pilot wouldn't even have to warp into 10 plexes in order to rollback 10 plexes! Only if they make the strategic decision to actively engage the Darmiel pilot together. Then it is a choice of killing the dram and rerunning the timers with all of them, a select few of them, or playing avoidance games (warping around to 10 plexes and activating the gate takes time). Also, I generally don't think the best implementation would be instant rollbacks of the timer as soon as someone cloaks or warps out of the plex because of this scenario. I think it should start counting back to the original time at an enhanced rate (10 seconds for ever 1 or so) until it reaches its base timer). But that is really more of tweaking the idea than tossing the idea out itself. Why are you against timer rollbacks? So you want the timer to count backwards 10x as fast as it counts upwards? Yeah. Reset all your plexes to chase the Dramiel around. Then go back to running timers so that... another solo pilot could come in and make you reset all your plexes. Wow - that would be a UTOPIA man. So if you plex for 10 minutes, and warp out - the timer will be back to 0 by the time you return - which is effectively the same net outcome to an instant rollback. Or if you cloak, the WT only has to sit there for a minute and not only rolls back the timer, but captures the plex. In 1 minute. Nice idea!!!!
This shows that not only do you not know how plexing works but that you also haven't read any of the above as it's all explained in there.
If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming. |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
129
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 19:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Thanatos Marathon wrote:Xuixien wrote:Guys I got an idea.
They should remove plexes and missions in FW as they exist and morph the two.
All missions from agents should be kill scenarios. "You must kill 1 WT in xx system." When you enter that system, a plex opens up. When an enemy warps to the plex, you must kill them in honnourable Bushido combat in order to get your LP reward.
After all FW is all about PvP and nothing else. CCP said so! An interesting idea, but I think Implementing Timer rollbacks will be enough for now. As already shown, timer rollbacks would be a terrible and imbalanced idea.
Ok well your point is that it would allow the defender to capture the plex in one minute. Lets disect that alone shall we?
The defender would after the roll back STILL have to spend the full timer to capture it for the defense thus either denying the plex or gaining the contestion rollback.
This would also occur if the defendder clocked up 14:59 on a 15 minute timer back to 0 as well to stop defenders "preloading" plexes to make a 15 minute plex take 29:59 for an attacker.
Timer rollbacks even the playing fields both ways.
If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming. |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
129
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 19:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:samualvimes wrote:Ok well your point is that it would allow the defender to capture the plex in one minute. Lets disect that alone shall we? No, that is not my point. As I already stated, I had a brain fart when typing that post. Keep obsessing over an error I made - it shows that your argument has no merit.
Fair point. I didn't see that you admitted the error.
The rest of my post is still valid though. Despite you pulling the only controversial part out of context
If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming. |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
129
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 19:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Thanatos Marathon wrote:So 1 guy in a Faction Fit Daredevil with Links could cause issues for a half a dozen plexers until they ganged up and killed him? This already happens. The nulling out of their "investment" is because they were unwilling to fight for the combat plex. They can kill him, scoop the loot, and then go back to plexing like bosses. Or they can put 2 people in each plex instead of 1. That QQcat guy was just QQcatting that it's unfair how it takes 2-3 guys to shut down 1 plexer. Now you're suggesting that 1 guy should be able to shut down 10 plexers. And you're also suggesting that people should have reduced payouts by proxy of needing more people to defend the plexes - because heaven forbid they not take a fight they'll lose (such as a Daredevil vs a Rifter). So you're also punishing people for not having the right amount of SP or the right type of ship. And what happens if you put two people in a plex? 4 people will show up to run them out.
If someone is in a T1 frigate on their own in FW and get forced out of a plex by a daredevil because they had no back up you actually think it's right they should be able to resume exactly where they left off?
What they are saying is that the plexer should hold the plex for the time to keep it. if that means succesfully holding 5 plexes of 2 people instead of 10 plexes of 1 so be it. This encourages teamwork which is a good thing.
If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming. |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
129
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 19:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:samualvimes wrote:If someone is in a T1 frigate on their own in FW and get forced out of a plex by a daredevil because they had no back up you actually think it's right they should be able to resume exactly where they left off? You're right, FW should only be a place for ~ELITEPVPERS~. Newbies should stick to RvB. samualvimes wrote:What they are saying is that the plexer should hold the plex for the time to keep it. if that means succesfully holding 5 plexes of 2 people instead of 10 plexes of 1 so be it. This encourages teamwork which is a good thing. Cool, then make LP payouts individual (instead of split between who's there) and increase them.
Did I say that? no.
If someone turns up with a superior fighting force then why should you be allowed to keep the field?
If a T1 frig can't win bring 2
Edit: I admit LP splitting does tend to preclude the whole teamwork thing, however rollbacks mean team up or you might get NOTHING
If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming. |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
137
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 20:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
So the main ideas in this thread have been what? (summing up)
1) module restrictions (no WCS/ cloaks)
-Not a fan of this as it's very "unsandboxy"
2) Ship restrictions (minimum ship sizes for the larger plexes)
- I like this as it brings a little more risk. frigs can still get the lower end but if you want more LP you've got to put more on the line.
3) Timer rollbacks
a) complete roll back to 0 if there is noone in PLEX
-feels kind of heavy handed and a bit too extreme maybe?too much chance of just forcing people out in turn.
b) accelerated roll back when defender is deplexing down to the null point only. 1s/s after that to capture a defensive plex.
-I feel this is one of the better ones aas it allows you to undo the damage of an invader if you manage to hold the plex but you it's not instant win
c) 1s/s rollback when noone is in the plex back to the null point only. After that it behaves like a fresh plex.
-another one that I think would be good as it doesn't destroy the entire attackers efforts so if they rally can manage to force the defenders out quickly they don't lose everything
d) split timers so each faction has it's own timer. Caldari does 14:59 ona novice Gal still only have to take down 15 min as opposed to 29:59
- could work as the attackers/defenders can make a last ditch push to get the plex clear and capture the last little bit etc
any others I've missed? Great ideas all round!
If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming. |
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