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HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.08 20:38:00 - [31] Originally by: Spokesperson You cant attack something inside of a force field. Carriers can send their fighters far away. Its game mechanics, stop whining! yes, it is. and a year ago, game mechanics meant i could solo every level 4 in a raven when i had 3mil SP. doesn't mean it was right Originally by: Spokesperson you remind me of that guy in the Ts movie with Tank CEO and Daakon a long time ago. no, that guy was an angry, foul mouthed idiot who thought he should be invulnerable. the OP is a well mannered poster who doesn't think people should be invulnerable. Originally by: Spokesperson Edit : also, the difference between a carrier sending its fighters outside the force field and a fleet commander sneing his frigates outside is NONE! except that there is a risk to players in the second scenario, and it requires a large number of players to make it work. things that can be dangerous using a lot of players are good, whereas things which turn a small gang into an insta-pwn group are not sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.08 20:39:00 - [32] Originally by: Asane If you attack a POS, shouldn't it be major resistance? yes, it should. however, the problem is that they are not attacking POSes - they are engaging elsewhere in the system, and getting hit hard by a carrier sitting happily in the POS with (virtually) no risk to itself sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Kaaii	Posted - 2006.03.08 20:45:00 - [33] You did state that there "50" Bs with the carrier fleet? Sounds like you were'nt going to kill it anyway, tbh. But as to the tactic, Its valid. Whats the difference if its in a safe spot or a pos? The difference is you didn't have dreads (did you?) to take out the pos. Did you know it was there? Think about the possibility? Probes bust safe spots Dreads bust pos Sounds like you just came to the party a little short on intel... "..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, than stand with One thousand sheep.." Tradeing 101
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.08 20:47:00 - [34] Originally by: Kaaii But as to the tactic, Its valid. Whats the difference if its in a safe spot or a pos? The difference is you didn't have dreads (did you?) to take out the pos. Did you know it was there? Think about the possibility? Probes bust safe spots Dreads bust pos the difference is that one good covops pilot will get a SS in under 5minutes. 8 dreads (quite a few tbh) would take about 30mins to kill a big POS. sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.03.08 20:52:00 - [35] Edited by: j0sephine on 08/03/2006 20:54:42 "the difference is that one good covops pilot will get a SS in under 5minutes." Between the vertical range of 'scan disk' on probes limited to 1 a.u, and them showing on the scanner which allows everyone with half brain spot them and move to another place long before they're tracked down? Don't think so... edit: When you have carrier sitting at the POS at least you know where it is, that it's not going anywhere and that it cannot support the fleet with extra repairs and whatnot, on top of the fighter wing bouncing around.
Kaaii	Posted - 2006.03.08 20:53:00 - [36] Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Kaaii But as to the tactic, Its valid. Whats the difference if its in a safe spot or a pos? The difference is you didn't have dreads (did you?) to take out the pos. Did you know it was there? Think about the possibility? Probes bust safe spots Dreads bust pos the difference is that one good covops pilot will get a SS in under 5minutes. 8 dreads (quite a few tbh) would take about 30mins to kill a big POS. Assuming 5 mins per safe spot, what carrier pilot wouldn't have multipule safes? Who, with that many sps doesn't know 5 mins tops for covert to find you? Don't you think they would be moving? (I would). So the time argument really doesn't float. 5 safe spots = one pos dead with the dreads. Yes it takes time, time to kill a pos, time to make a carrier, time to bust safe spots. No one is supposed to have an "I-win button".....even you.. "..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, than stand with One thousand sheep.." Tradeing 101
Lunas Feelgood	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:06:00 - [37] Originally by: Kaaii You did state that there "50" Bs with the carrier fleet? Sounds like you were'nt going to kill it anyway, tbh. But as to the tactic, Its valid. Whats the difference if its in a safe spot or a pos? The difference is you didn't have dreads (did you?) to take out the pos. Did you know it was there? Think about the possibility? Probes bust safe spots Dreads bust pos Sounds like you just came to the party a little short on intel... The entire enemy fleet got anihilated by E-R forces.. and were were quite sure we would get the carrier until we found out that he was in a POS and then thought wtf thats just so wrong he doesnt take any risk.. Btw for those person that keep smacking pls stop this is trying to be a civil discussion go and smack in the corp and alliance forum and btw post with you main.
Sirkill	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:09:00 - [38] If you kill the all gangmates the fighters could be assigned to your take the threat of the fighters away, just as if you killed the carrier itself.
Zeitor	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:11:00 - [39] LOL this is the funniest thing I've ever heard. It's like you're whining because you wanted to shot someone that's hiding behind a wall. let's think real life tactics. If you're being shot at, do you walk out from behind the wall and into the middle of an open clearing with a bullseye painted on your chest and say "here I am I want to make it fair shoot me." OMG thanks soooooo much for the laugh. I vote this Whine of the month. :)
Trevedian	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:18:00 - [40] I agree with Lunas that its a cheap tactic... Get someone to have the fighters follow them into warp... Then web/kill the fighters when the person in the carrier can't see them. Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Lunas Feelgood	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:19:00 - [41] Also we know how carriers work and we knew it was prop at ss..But inside a POS thats just wrong. We have killed a carrier before who was in a ss but send his fighters after us.. however there is nothing worng there becuase ss can be found and he is not invinsible he is taking a risk and thats how PVP is if you used them there is a chance that you can lose it.. Scenerio.. An alliance wanna attack a sys.. they get 20 carriers into the sys build a large POS. and get the carriers into the Large POS.. Offcourse these carriers are all on alts so they are just afk but as assigned 5 fighters to each main who are in a steatlh bomber.. then you just wait utntil the enemy fleet and start killing everything in sys.. with 20 bloddy stealth bomber lol??? wtf E-R is getting carriers with all our alts right now in 1 month E-R gonna used this to a sys near you watch us its gonna be fun:P
Kye Kenshin	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:23:00 - [42] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Originally by: Kaaii You did state that there "50" Bs with the carrier fleet? Sounds like you were'nt going to kill it anyway, tbh. But as to the tactic, Its valid. Whats the difference if its in a safe spot or a pos? The difference is you didn't have dreads (did you?) to take out the pos. Did you know it was there? Think about the possibility? Probes bust safe spots Dreads bust pos Sounds like you just came to the party a little short on intel... The entire enemy fleet got anihilated by E-R forces.. and were were quite sure we would get the carrier until we found out that he was in a POS and then thought wtf thats just so wrong he doesnt take any risk.. Btw for those person that keep smacking pls stop this is trying to be a civil discussion go and smack in the corp and alliance forum and btw post with you main. So basically you killed the fleet then were ****ed that the carrier used the POS for safety once all his support was gone? If i was the Carrier pilot i would hide in a POS if my fleet got annihlated too. Oh and this POS hiding tactic only works if your defending a system.
Lunas Feelgood	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:26:00 - [43] But aperently people like this idea offcourse they will its a win button... In 2 months time after a fleet battle.. Alliance 1 sitting in his large POS: heheh we won we killed 30 fighters:P Alliance 2 sitting in his large POS: rabble rabble you had stabs on you fighters CHEAT.. Its this what we want pvp vs npc ships that sounds really fun:P
Sebastien LeReparteur	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:27:00 - [44] 1. Buy dreads instead of Carriers. 2. <.....> 3. Proceed to destroy POS. Kill carriers. 20 carriers is a bit over the edge at that cost get one or 2 titan and take out the POS see above
Lunas Feelgood	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:36:00 - [45] Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur 1. Buy dreads instead of Carriers. 2. <.....> 3. Proceed to destroy POS. Kill carriers. 20 carriers is a bit over the edge at that cost get one or 2 titan and take out the POS see above 4. while Dreads are shooting the large POS.. you build a new large POS 5 carriers jumps to another sys and then jump back into there POS.. 6.. the hole thing can start over with no risk at all.. 7. You have to be a moron to ever lose a carrier becuase with this tactics there is no risk
Lunas Feelgood	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:38:00 - [46] Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur 1. Buy dreads instead of Carriers. 2. <.....> 3. Proceed to destroy POS. Kill carriers. 20 carriers is a bit over the edge at that cost get one or 2 titan and take out the POS see above And no 20 is not abit over the edge in 1-2 month every1 gonna have a dread or a carrier.. I know almost all our alts will have.
Kazender	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:41:00 - [47] Ok i couldnt be bothered to read all the posts in this thread but i read the first few and got the idea. Firstly I think it's fine that you can use carriers inside a pos shield .. this has many good side effects (in my opinion) for example it gives the advantage to the defending side ... you can't exactly use this tactic if you're invading enemy territory ... To the argument that pvp should involve risk .. well the carrier is risking something .. its fighters ... its more risk than turning up in a bs loaded with wcs. On a final note ... say ccp change the game mechanics and prevent carriers from having assigning fighters inside a pos .. the carrier could sit 1km outside the force field .. as soon as he see enemies warp in he simply flies the 1km into the shield .. you still have the 'invulernable carrier' problem, yes i am aware that someone could web it and carriers are slow already ... but carriers can have a pretty decent tank that could last long enough to crawl 1km especially when the pos guns will be attacking the enemy fleet.
Trevedian	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:47:00 - [48] Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur 1. Buy dreads instead of Carriers. 2. <.....> 3. Proceed to destroy POS. Kill carriers. 20 carriers is a bit over the edge at that cost get one or 2 titan and take out the POS see above Dumbest reply EVER! You obviously haven't a clue what either Carriers nor Titans cost... Its a cheap tactic to hide inside a POS, but using POS's as a Super Secure Safespot is commonplace in EVE. Without the ability to do this BOB, and many other carebear alliances would fall apart. If you are inside a POS forcefield your drones should go limp, like they do when you activate a cloaking device on a carrier etc. Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Sebastien LeReparteur	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur 1. Buy dreads instead of Carriers. 2. <.....> 3. Proceed to destroy POS. Kill carriers. 20 carriers is a bit over the edge at that cost get one or 2 titan and take out the POS see above 4. while Dreads are shooting the large POS.. you build a new large POS 5 carriers jumps to another sys and then jump back into there POS.. 6.. the hole thing can start over with no risk at all.. 7. You have to be a moron to ever lose a carrier becuase with this tactics there is no risk Large POS with gun is not an easy taks to install a small wing of stealth bomber could prevent it... or maybe you wanna have a you can't win all the time button with all your alts. Doing a seige to a castle as always been hard. But even if the guy retreated to another castle you still won that castle!
The GoldenRatio	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:49:00 - [50] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur 1. Buy dreads instead of Carriers. 2. <.....> 3. Proceed to destroy POS. Kill carriers. 20 carriers is a bit over the edge at that cost get one or 2 titan and take out the POS see above 4. while Dreads are shooting the large POS.. you build a new large POS 5 carriers jumps to another sys and then jump back into there POS.. 6.. the hole thing can start over with no risk at all.. 7. You have to be a moron to ever lose a carrier becuase with this tactics there is no risk No risk? How much does a POS cost? Try onlining a POS while a huge enemy fleet is in your system, scanning constantly to find things to blow up. Another point, the bottom line is it is OK becasue the carrier risks what it is willing to use. Each fight is 20 million isk. If the carrier sends 20 out it risks 400 million isk. If the carrier wishes to use its energy transfer or armor repairing or anything, it risks itself. Why are you whining so much about carriers sitting inside POS when carriers already have a far superior way of avoiding destruction, which is warping constantly from SS to SS on a list of 20 SS. It is 20x easier to make 20 SS in a system than build a POS. And the POS can be destroyed. The SSs cant. At any rate, all is fair since the fighters can be destroyed the second they try to fight you (aka leave the shield) Why the **** are you still whining about this? If you had their fleet destroyed, why dident you just move in and take their POS out? What can a lone carrier with no more fighters do against a proper POS destroying fleet? Quit whining. --- CCP should hire me.
The GoldenRatio	Posted - 2006.03.08 21:56:00 - [51] Lunas Feelgood, YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT, PERIOD. Quit whining. --- CCP should hire me.
Lunas Feelgood	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:00:00 - [52] Originally by: The GoldenRatio Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur 1. Buy dreads instead of Carriers. 2. <.....> 3. Proceed to destroy POS. Kill carriers. 20 carriers is a bit over the edge at that cost get one or 2 titan and take out the POS see above 4. while Dreads are shooting the large POS.. you build a new large POS 5 carriers jumps to another sys and then jump back into there POS.. 6.. the hole thing can start over with no risk at all.. 7. You have to be a moron to ever lose a carrier becuase with this tactics there is no risk No risk? How much does a POS cost? Try onlining a POS while a huge enemy fleet is in your system, scanning constantly to find things to blow up. Another point, the bottom line is it is OK becasue the carrier risks what it is willing to use. Each fight is 20 million isk. If the carrier sends 20 out it risks 400 million isk. If the carrier wishes to use its energy transfer or armor repairing or anything, it risks itself. Why are you whining so much about carriers sitting inside POS when carriers already have a far superior way of avoiding destruction, which is warping constantly from SS to SS on a list of 20 SS. It is 20x easier to make 20 SS in a system than build a POS. And the POS can be destroyed. The SSs cant. At any rate, all is fair since the fighters can be destroyed the second they try to fight you (aka leave the shield) Why the ** are you still whining about this? If you had their fleet destroyed, why dident you just move in and take their POS out? What can a lone carrier with no more fighters do against a proper POS destroying fleet? Quit whining.** We play this game to have fun and we are never gonna shoot any POS.. Its the most boring ever and we are not gonna torture ourself..
Lunas Feelgood	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:03:00 - [53] Edited by: Lunas Feelgood on 08/03/2006 22:06:07 Originally by: The GoldenRatio Lunas Feelgood, YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT, PERIOD. Quit whining. No arguments?? dont you think to pvp wihtout any risk is a preatty good argument?? you say yea but they can lose there fighters. wow 20mil each yea thats a seriuos big lose for an alliance.. But anyway since im the only one who preatty much think this is so wrong.. We will just have to find a way to sploit this tactic to the extrem. Until it get change by ccp End
Trevedian	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:07:00 - [54] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Originally by: The GoldenRatio Lunas Feelgood, YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT, PERIOD. Quit whining. No arguments?? dont you think to pvp wihtout any risk is a preatty good argument?? you say yea but they can lose there fighters. wow 20mil each yea thats a seriuos big lose for an alliance.. But anyway since im the only one who preatty much think this is so wrong.. We will just have to find a way to sploit this tactic to the extrem. End Lunas rest assured you have a valid point here. But just like in RL, EVE is played by alot of people who comprehend very little and lack the ability to recognize a sound argument. Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Equinox II	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:08:00 - [55] Edited by: Equinox II on 08/03/2006 22:09:22 Btw, who gets the killmail if a fighter assigned to someone kills something? The guy in the carrier or the guy they are assigned to? WTB: Large POS and Amarr carrier btw. ;) Edit: And, yeah, I totally agree with Lunas here.. CCP Hammer > Next patch we will make sure to boost Amarr and Nerf Caldari.
Trevedian	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Equinox II Edited by: Equinox II on 08/03/2006 22:09:22 Btw, who gets the killmail if a fighter assigned to someone kills something? The guy in the carrier or the guy they are assigned to? WTB: Large POS and Amarr carrier btw. ;) Edit: And, yeah, I totally agree with Lunas here.. I tried this with my alt in a shuttle (Who wouldn't want to get a killmail while flying a shuttle?). Sadly, the Carrier pilot gets all the killmails. Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
The GoldenRatio	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:13:00 - [57] Another horrible argument. You play to have fun therefore you dont destroy POS? LOL? So don't attack people that have POS to run to. Or maybe get 20 dreadnaughts so it is actually FUN to take a POS down. Ever think of that? Big explosions = fun. Also, when did I say I think pvp with zero risk is not a bad thing? The alliance risks what it is willing to send out to fight you with. In the very least, as long as you fight your battle correctly, the carrier is going to lose hundreds of millions worth of isk in fighters. That is a real, measurable loss. If the carrier pilot makes a mistake, or you somehow find a way to force his hand, you might even destroy the carrier. Quit whining. --- CCP should hire me.
The GoldenRatio	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:21:00 - [58] Q: Is it possible for a carriers fighters to be fighting ships that are sitting outside of the POS while the carrier is sitting inside the POS, and there are no other pilots who are friendly with the carrier in the grid? If so, how? Q: Do carriers stay in space when you log out, or do they warp to a SS and disappear? Q: Is it possible for a carrier to use a jump gate? Q: How long does it take to generate a field for a carrier to use to jump with? And is there a beacon that any pilot in the system can warp to when the field is being generated? On which side of the "jump tunnel" is this beacon created on? Both? Or just the origin? Or just the destination? --- CCP should hire me.
Equinox II	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:25:00 - [59] Originally by: The GoldenRatio Another horrible argument. You play to have fun therefore you dont destroy POS? LOL? So don't attack people that have POS to run to. Or maybe get 20 dreadnaughts so it is actually FUN to take a POS down. Ever think of that? Big explosions = fun. Have you ever actually killed a large pos? Do you have any idea how long it takes and how boring it is? I've been part of taking down several, even some before they introduced dreads. I'll rather mine than shoot at a POS, and I really really really really really hate mining. The explosion is fun to watch the first time, that's it.. And, did you even concider that POS might have enough strontium to stay in reinforced mode for like up to one day? What's to stop the carrier for logging off, move to a different POS, or simply jumping out the system while you are shooting at the POS? Originally by: The GoldenRatio Also, when did I say I think pvp with zero risk is not a bad thing? The alliance risks what it is willing to send out to fight you with. In the very least, as long as you fight your battle correctly, the carrier is going to lose hundreds of millions worth of isk in fighters. That is a real, measurable loss. If the carrier pilot makes a mistake, or you somehow find a way to force his hand, you might even destroy the carrier. How can you possibly force a carrier's hand while he sits in his little globe of invulnerability unless the pilot is completely retarded? Losing a couple of fighters is nothing for most alliances tbh.. Originally by: The GoldenRatio Quit whining. No, and we also demand more cheese with the wine.. CCP Hammer > Next patch we will make sure to boost Amarr and Nerf Caldari.
Equinox II	Posted - 2006.03.08 22:29:00 - [60] Originally by: The GoldenRatio Q: Is it possible for a carriers fighters to be fighting ships that are sitting outside of the POS while the carrier is sitting inside the POS, and there are no other pilots who are friendly with the carrier in the grid? If so, how? No, he needs the help of for example an interceptor that can run outside the shield, lock someone fast, attack with fighters, then run back inside the shield. Shouldn't be a problem for the ceptor, since most things that could lock it fast enough won't be able to survive the POS guns. Originally by: The GoldenRatio Q: Do carriers stay in space when you log out, or do they warp to a SS and disappear? I'm pretty sure they act as normal ships.. Originally by: The GoldenRatio Q: Is it possible for a carrier to use a jump gate? No, they have a jump-drive, so they can jump to people in the same gang that setup a cyno-field (within range). Originally by: The GoldenRatio Q: How long does it take to generate a field for a carrier to use to jump with? And is there a beacon that any pilot in the system can warp to when the field is being generated? On which side of the "jump tunnel" is this beacon created on? Both? Or just the origin? Or just the destination? Beacon is created by the click of a button and you can jump pretty much straight away. Everyone in the destination system sees the beacon and can warp to it. Beacon is only created at the destination. CCP Hammer > Next patch we will make sure to boost Amarr and Nerf Caldari.

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