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Tehel Necrona	Posted - 2003.09.07 15:05:00 - [1] Note: Firstly let me start by saying this is, as should be quite obvious by it's forum position, an out of character post. So unless you have something against me personally outside of the game, keep the trolling to a minimal. This is a discussion on it. Infact that little note sets the tone perfectly. Hate in eve, is being confused somewhat. Perhaps it comes from people (like myself admitedly) never playing Role playing games before, and thus confusing the difference between in character and out of character hate. I think part of where this problem comes from is where the forum posts are being placed. In the EVE Corporation Discussion, nn here and the intergaltaic summit. Now some people get attacked in game, and they counter with out of game responses. Not because their immature, not because their idiots, but because their unsure of the attack that was made against them. Now attacks i am not refering to virus e-mails and what not i'm on about "discussion" attacks. Although discussion is not perhaps the correct word to use. I seriously suspect we need clearer and more enforced forum moderation in regards to some OOC and IC issues as its confusing many, and causing somewhat of a split within the eve community. Don't get me wrong, the mods so far have done what has been neccisary, however as the tension grows an increase in moderation will perhaps be needed. I guess what i'm trying to also point out in this post, is to those getting somewhat miffed with myself and others (on either side of hte ingame conflict) should appreciate "where" we are comming from, and my arrogance or anyone elses is probably something portrayed in a roleplaying scenario. Anyways i'm off to do some IC trolling. ciao :) -Necro
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.09.07 15:07:00 - [2] I'm always [ic] except when I'm not. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Jake Solnich	Posted - 2003.09.07 15:10:00 - [3] I just think people need to remember and occasionally remind themselves... that in the end....it's only a game. *I would rather die a free man than live as a slave.*
Riddari	Posted - 2003.09.07 15:27:00 - [4] I'm always IC. The only OOC trait that influences Riddari of Tycho Heavy Industries is his readings of Ayn Rand. Having seen a corporation advocate that holocaustic ubermensch lower-than-animals propoganda he is condemned to do his best to battle that enemy of humanity. I personally don't hate any other player OOC and in fact I always get a small OOC sting of sympathy when I shoot down an enemy ship and pod the player. However as Riddari IC I can't allow such emotions clout my judgement in battle against TTi and other enemies (note: not podded a TTi member... yet) ¼©¼ a history
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2003.09.07 15:35:00 - [5] First I'm not saying the outside game attacks are ok, they aren't..but, TTI execs have made themselves very unpopular (as players not characters) by resorting to lawyers.
Trianon Starstealer	Posted - 2003.09.07 15:38:00 - [6] Quote: First I'm not saying the outside game attacks are ok, they aren't..but, TTI execs have made themselves very unpopular (as players not characters) by resorting to lawyers. Tell me you are Joking???? Someone actually threated to use a lawyer over what????
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2003.09.07 15:41:00 - [7] It was over info taken from TTIs forums by a mole. I belive Raggy had his lawyers threaten the guy who published the info.
Tehel Necrona	Posted - 2003.09.07 15:41:00 - [8] Edited by: Tehel Necrona on 07/09/2003 15:47:17 Edited by: Tehel Necrona on 07/09/2003 15:45:13 Something that happend in beta regarding an OUT OF GAME issue. Out of game in the sense it was information from a privatley owned site a privatley owned site that had out of game content. That was posted on an in game issue. You see how it becomes a grey area in that sense, but i do not feel ragnar was in the wrong, perhaps he over-reacted somewhat... but then again it made the media think twice before posting whatever they like. If such liberal freedom was allowed amongst the press they'd have way too much power and cause far too much trouble. Also they could, essentially post whatever they like, state its from a private source relating to a target and damage them significantly. No one should hold that ammount of power most importantly objective opinionated people with a large audience. This issue has been discussed for a year now and is becomming more and more clouded with every comment. Even mine i guess. Unless your refering to our involvement with the FBI over recent virus attacks on several execs and their company web sites. I hardly see how that was un-appropriate, but never mind this thread is heading exactly the way i didn't want it too. Last post i make here. Sorry but this is none other than a joke. You've demonstrated quite clearly how inadequate many are to handle proper in game issues. -Necro
Riddari	Posted - 2003.09.07 15:44:00 - [9] Quote: Last post i make here. Sorry but this is none other than a joke. Not a lot of stamina ¼©¼ a history
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2003.09.07 15:49:00 - [10] hmmm...so the MDW incident never happened?
Tehel Necrona	Posted - 2003.09.07 15:59:00 - [11] Ok you've got me miffed now so it looks i'm going to go back on my word and reply here. What MWD incident? -Necro
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2003.09.07 16:11:00 - [12] Edited by: Lao Tzu on 07/09/2003 16:14:08 That's MDW not MWD. The website that vanished. (I should add here that I may be totaly wrong, it's been know to happen, but this was the story I heard)
Trinity Eve	Posted - 2003.09.07 16:13:00 - [13] In the world of big corporation and piracy, it is normal (in real life as well in game) to except corp raiders to show up. Sometimes they are called criminals and sometimes they are called whistle-blowers. It is suprising to me that TTI does not know about it (or you guys just engage in wet dreams that favor your kind). Anyway it is IC that somebody infiltrates your corp steals stratigic information, steals your corp belongings, sabotage your current project and informs your enemies about your current position, numbers and weaknesses. In Beta soembody took something from your web site and shared. I know for fact that TTI have mandatory posting policy (those who don't post certain number of psot on your own forums get deleted and booted from your corp), therefore your web site and its forum is considered by you as an IC property. In the past you brought laweys in to fix thing you forced people to participate in. Recently you forced closure of SCOPE. It seems that its not others who confuse IC and OOC aspects of the game but you are. Better yet if something server you to get filthy rich (no matter how unmoral it is) it is good for you but if somebody uses it against you its not OK and lets bring laweys in, lets bring havoc to entire gaming community. It seems also that you are one that need to mature and realize that this is just a game (some chilling out would not hurt either). Until then, for me you are just advocates of some BS theory about double measurment for yourself and for others. Furthermore you seems to skipped soem stages of brain development which prevents you now from logical reasoning and seeing facts for what they are (arreseted development comes in mind). This is (I suspect) reason why are you such cry babies and why you are lost cause.
Sc0rpion	Posted - 2003.09.07 16:15:00 - [14] Quote: I'm always [ic] except when I'm not. Thanks for clearing that up! "The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously." -Freidrich Nietzche
Doctor Angry	Posted - 2003.09.07 17:07:00 - [15] To a point though, what Tehel is saying is correct. Moving aside the issue of Lawyers and stuff, that I'm not wanting to get into, some people seem to take the game way over seriously.....myself included on occasion. However, where I draw the line is actually physically hating someone I have never ever met in RL, for something that they did in-game. For example, if I shot Tehel's ship down and podded him, or vice-versa, I might hate his in-game persona and want to kill him in many different ways, it doesn't mean that I can't stand the guy behind the character. However, there are always exceptions. I have seen people make racial slurs in-game (not talking about Amarr vs Minmatar here, either btw which IS acceptable as it would be in character), and people making offensive remarks about people that go too far. I'm not a so-called "carebear", but there are times when the line between reality and fiction get blurred. Doctor Angry *BSC CEO* Campbells Condensed : A small double strength fart which, when combined with air, can produce enough to feed a whole room
Femme Fatal	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:02:00 - [16] I have an OOG personal dislike for certain TTI members (nothing even close to hate) and so IC I hunt down TTi and do everything to harm them. I dont hate, or anything like that.. im just having fun
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:09:00 - [17] Quote: I have an OOG personal dislike for certain TTI members (nothing even close to hate) and so IC I hunt down TTi and do everything to harm them. I dont hate, or anything like that.. im just having fun How can you dislike someone you never even seen IRL? I find that very hard to realize... However i could understand personal dislikes against someone who acts ingame. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Stavros	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:11:00 - [18] roleplayers scare me and I think sometimes it leads people to get to involved in the game. One of the nice things about m0o was that all the guys were really easy going.. We just whipped an entire allaince? ooh thats great.. Just lost 2 doms to rus, oh nm gg rus cya soon.. Some people who play this game REALLY need to lighten up and realise that it is just a game and nothing more. Stav -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:20:00 - [19] Quote: roleplayers scare me and I think sometimes it leads people to get to involved in the game. One of the nice things about m0o was that all the guys were really easy going.. We just whipped an entire allaince? ooh thats great.. Just lost 2 doms to rus, oh nm gg rus cya soon.. Some people who play this game REALLY need to lighten up and realise that it is just a game and nothing more. Stav What i find the most fun is when a couple is gettin married, and before saying "i do" the female character convess to the guy that the guy is going to have a wedding night with a person that owns a *****. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Stavros	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:32:00 - [20] case in point dreamworks, I dont understand why people do that kinda thing, its totally alien and freeky to me... like those people that run around in forests with big latex swords and elf costumes... /me shudders Anyway each to their own I suppose.. Stav -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Tehel Necrona	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:34:00 - [21] Edited by: Tehel Necrona on 07/09/2003 18:43:39 What web site? I have no idea what your on about fella. Stavr0s, due to the lack of content in eve, people have to RP to create certain scenario's to make it a little more enjoyable, but i hear where ur comming from. Some of you have played directly into my hands in this thread, proving how plauged the gene pool is. I asked, quite obviously NOT to act in the manner that you have done. I'm not going to go into what we judge inactivty on, sufice to say your way off mark, but like i said this is not a thread about TTI but rather the grey area that many are having trouble with between OOG and IG hate. Hate is a very powerful and dangerous thing, e-mail virus's i'm sure could be the start. In games i've played before entire IRC servers were DOS attacked due to the confusion between In Game and Out of Game hated. This led to attacks on ISP companies themselves and the disruption of many people. People went too far, and i'm very much afraid they will in eve, that's why this topic needs to be hammered down now. So please if your about to post a slanging post at TTI, go find one of the other 50 threads about it and keep this thread for its very own purpose. Perhaps the mods would like to assist me in this matter? As tensions grow in the game and the politics we must maintain a level of a maturity and sportsmanship. -Necro
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:46:00 - [22] People goin too far should be banned instantly and disconnected by their isp, what moron sends virus emails because of an game? __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:49:00 - [23] Quote: case in point dreamworks, I dont understand why people do that kinda thing, its totally alien and freeky to me... like those people that run around in forests with big latex swords and elf costumes... /me shudders Anyway each to their own I suppose.. Stav HAHA! Aye, i once been invited to that kind of crap... And i didnt knew where to look, some farker in a bush, pretending his ears are larger than his nose and acting like a overfemale ghey guy. I do like to make jokes like my kind of responces are too agressive for gallante, and im trying to shock these rp'ers that my mom was an amarr and my dad was gallante... you should see how fast the channel gets back to 1 guy. >:) __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Karif	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:51:00 - [24] "proving how plauged the gene pool is" LOL Genetic Determinism is so 80ies. Welcome to the auddies (sp? its the term used for the 00ies) and when the Human Genome Project has very reliable proof that this is not the case. For example, schizophrenia, one of the leading mental disorders, has a genetic marker. Having the marker does not mean that you will become schizophrenic. There has never been any reliable and sucessfully intersubjectively tested demonstrations of a link between genetics and intelligence. =============================== Deception + Information + Skill
Darketh Nightspawn	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:56:00 - [25] Quote: It was over info taken from TTIs forums by a mole. I belive Raggy had his lawyers threaten the guy who published the info. Well, I cannot beleive anyone would actually be such a sad liitle oik as to start waving lawyers around..... get a life you fool..
Lethargy	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:57:00 - [26] Quote: People goin too far should be banned instantly and disconnected by their isp, what moron sends virus emails because of an game? The same morons who start waving around lawsuits maybe????
Trianon Starstealer	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:58:00 - [27] Quote: Edited by: Tehel Necrona on 07/09/2003 15:47:17 Edited by: Tehel Necrona on 07/09/2003 15:45:13 Something that happend in beta regarding an OUT OF GAME issue. Out of game in the sense it was information from a privatley owned site a privatley owned site that had out of game content. That was posted on an in game issue. You see how it becomes a grey area in that sense, but i do not feel ragnar was in the wrong, perhaps he over-reacted somewhat... but then again it made the media think twice before posting whatever they like. If such liberal freedom was allowed amongst the press they'd have way too much power and cause far too much trouble. Also they could, essentially post whatever they like, state its from a private source relating to a target and damage them significantly. No one should hold that ammount of power most importantly objective opinionated people with a large audience. This issue has been discussed for a year now and is becomming more and more clouded with every comment. Even mine i guess. Unless your refering to our involvement with the FBI over recent virus attacks on several execs and their company web sites. I hardly see how that was un-appropriate, but never mind this thread is heading exactly the way i didn't want it too. Last post i make here. Sorry but this is none other than a joke. You've demonstrated quite clearly how inadequate many are to handle proper in game issues. -Necro Inadequate to handle in game disputes.... Ley me check around to see how many in game Lawyers there are.......... sad..... very very sad
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:59:00 - [28] Quote: Quote: People goin too far should be banned instantly and disconnected by their isp, what moron sends virus emails because of an game? The same morons who start waving around lawsuits maybe???? If you aquire data that is against the law, else he couldnt sue this person... Then this person should be banned too. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Kashre	Posted - 2003.09.07 18:59:00 - [29] So maybe getting back to the actual topic, hate in eve, and away from all the OT TTI bashing going on : There is nothing you can do about it, for 2 reasons. 1: People put a great deal of effort into this game, and the fruits of that effort can be destroyed in an eyeblink if they are not careful. When it happens to me, I saw what the hell, take a break from eve to be double sure Im not gonna over react, and then come back and deal. But there are plenty of cretins who will get podded by a pirate, and then scream and yell and whine and post "Im leaving" threads and even in some cases threaten (laughably) to come find whoever podded them and do bad things to them and their family. This is my first MMORPG, but I've developed the opinion that you cant get away from those people. No 2, from years and years of Pen and Paper role playing, I can tell you that there are people out there that are maladjusted enough that they define themselves by their characters, and get really way too into their character's personality quirks. I know people personally who would start a Minmatar that hated Amarr, and easily take the step to where he because a person who hated people who play Amarr. Not healthy, but probably something else you can't get away from. +++ It's called "low security space" for a reason.
Klydor	Posted - 2003.09.07 19:22:00 - [30] Edited by: Klydor on 07/09/2003 19:25:15 The problem is, when your posting and your character name is displayed next to your post, it's very easy to take the comments to be in game. So when players post, many will post as their characters would post, even if its not an RP forum. The gray area is that others will always post as "they" themselves feel, with nothing character based ever said. I agree with Tehel that some players take the game way beyond in game mechanics and starting to resort to DOS/Virus attacks is way too far. However in response to how can you hate someone you've never met, well thats quite easy, you've never met them so all you have to go on is their posts and in game behaviour. If someone uses exploits/cheats in game I will take a personal dislike to them. I will no longer reply to threads or posts they make etc. However I wouldn't take any personal dislike to players who kill me etc etc or steal ore or anything else thats "in game". Bottom line IMHO is, players who bear a grudge due to an in-game event and resort to out of game means to insult players or disrupt their internet connections should be banned. Included in this would be harassing emails DOS attacks, virus', posting of personal information, credit card details etc etc

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