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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Taran Blake
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Posted - 2006.03.19 07:39:00 -
[331]
NPC corps are the in-game equivalent of "Flags of Convenience" in the real world. Useful to get around problems of wars and inconvenient taxes.
Shipowners do it in the real world, so why are you trying to stamp it out in game?
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.03.19 07:39:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Aramova
Oh my god!
Somebody made sense!
Well put Virvana.
NON-sense perhaps.
Making your own corp is a rank 1 skill.
Do that. The poster you quoted could have trained that skill to level 1 in the time it took them to write the tripe in their post.
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Kim Chee
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Posted - 2006.03.19 08:04:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Nyxus If sane governments don't allow citizens to use large scale weaponry,
And Freightor pilots in NPC corps use the freightor cargo space to wage economic/logistics warfare on legitimate PC corps,
Ergo NPC corps must not allow thier pilots to utilze the cargo capacity of a freightor.
Ok, if you're going to drag the real world in here... I will propose that a pickup truck is the equivalent of a industrial ship, and that a semi truck is the equivalent of a freighter. Ok?
In what part of the world is it legal for a civilian to own and operate a pickup truck and NOT legal for them to own and operate a semi truck?
True, most places require that a semi truck driver passes a seperate (and more difficult) exam, to prove they know how to safely operate it... but that's why you can fly an indy with only the industrial skill, where a freighter requires you to max out that industrial skill AND learn a seperate freighter skill. Buying and training that skill is your license.
You guys need to stop being so threatened by truck drivers... did you have a bad experience at a rest area somewhere?
<=----=> Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion. Kerr Avon: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
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Sam Spacey
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Posted - 2006.03.19 08:22:00 -
[334]
Bwahahahaha I want to fly a Titan now, I want to fly a carrier now etc.... why do I have to train up. It's not fair etc etc etc...
Stop whining about freighters please. And train for one if you really want one people.
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Chammisse
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Posted - 2006.03.19 08:26:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 13/03/2006 19:09:49 Make freighters unable to be driven when player is in NPC Corp!
Please be constructive like "Ardent Rellik".
If any mods see this please help me to have a clean thread.
And where did it say on the box people have to join a PC corp?
Show me anything that says i cant play the way i want to and Ill find a new game...
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Redeol
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Posted - 2006.03.19 08:55:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Chammisse
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 13/03/2006 19:09:49 Make freighters unable to be driven when player is in NPC Corp!
Please be constructive like "Ardent Rellik".
If any mods see this please help me to have a clean thread.
And where did it say on the box people have to join a PC corp?
Show me anything that says i cant play the way i want to and Ill find a new game...
ditto.
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dingadong
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Posted - 2006.03.19 09:10:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Taran Blake NPC corps are the in-game equivalent of "Flags of Convenience" in the real world. Useful to get around problems of wars and inconvenient taxes.
Shipowners do it in the real world, so why are you trying to stamp it out in game?
because the threadstarter can't swallow the fact that other people have more ISK.
because the threadstarter is to scared/cheap/lazy to sacrifice more then one battleship for his highsec ganking haulers wich he would like to apply to freighters.
because the threadstarter is crying, screaming and slapping around, because he can't declare war on peacfull NPC corp players to shoot there freighters.
because the threadstarter got a reply from Oveur and now thinks his thread is important, and therefore thinks this is his oppurtunity to do something against freighters, one way or the other.
because the threadstarter doesnt like the way other people play "his" game.
because the threadstarter is green of jealousy about the pretty looking freighters, awww how sad.
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TIO 101
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Posted - 2006.03.19 09:48:00 -
[338]
to the OP
/crymeariver
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2006.03.19 10:26:00 -
[339]
Solo corps are over rated.
I've been in one for nearly a year now, and nothing ever happens, and there's noone to talk to. I don't have the time to go back into the Alliance game, and you just aren't going to find a big player corp that isn't that active.
If I could, I'd probably go back to my old newb corp. I'm already not getting into any wars, so it isn't like I've deprived anyone of that, and, frankly, the newbs need someone to tell them how things work. Some of these guys don't know which end the bang comes out of, and they don't have access to enough old players to find out.
It's just so quiet in here.
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2006.03.19 11:04:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Originally by: Fester Addams
The reason however for this whole thread is that the OP is mad that there are so many freighters he cant get at as the pilots are in NPC corps so he can not wardec them and kill them in highsec.
this has to be the most clueless reply in this thread. have you actully read anything, or are you just blind?
Im not seeing you denying the fact...
And its amazing what they can do with touch screens thise days you know :)
Its interesting however how you skipped the content of the post and went right down to bash on what we all know the OP wants... as he has stated it clearly enough time and time again.
Originally by: Nyxus
If you filled your new aircraft carrier up with weapons and jets that you were transporting/selling to a hostile nation you can bet that a government would completely prohibit that (and they do! Just try selling a loading a few 50 caliber machine guns and scud missiles in your truck and hauling them somewher to sell and you will see what I mean).
If you are just carrying soil, holoreels, and wheat in your decommissioned aircraft carrier or freightor then no one really cares as you are not directly or indirectly attacking someone with near invulnerablility due to the game mechanics of NPC corps and high sec.
Perhaps thats the answer. NPC corp freightors can only haul npc corp products like seeds, quafe, etc.
The pain... the pain!!
The reason why you will get into troubble hauling scutds, Anthrax and whatnot in a truck and selling it to hostile nations is because (and this is the central point) such things are illegal (ie contraband).
There is a contraband system in eve, its just not working all that well. All items that are illegal have this information on them, if the item does not have information that its illegal then its legal and anyone can haul and sell it as they please.
I must say Im not sure if you are trying to be sarcastic or not but...
Originally by: Chammisse
And where did it say on the box people have to join a PC corp?
Show me anything that says i cant play the way i want to and Ill find a new game...
Short, concice and true, I wish I had put it like that.
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Peservich
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Posted - 2006.03.19 12:09:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Chammisse
And where did it say on the box people have to join a PC corp?
Show me anything that says i cant play the way i want to and Ill find a new game...
Terrible argument.
I want to have the opportunity to destroy your freighter. Why can you play the game the way you want to and I can't?
Because I would be affecting your gameplay and you aren't affecting mine? You affect my gameplay just by hauling, completing trade routes and selling items.
You're absolutely right. This should not be a one way road. You can affect my gameplay but I can't really affect yours.
This is nothing short of a pseudo-I-win button for carebears.
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Demarcus
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Posted - 2006.03.19 12:17:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 13/03/2006 19:09:49 Make freighters unable to be driven when player is in NPC Corp!
Please be constructive like "Ardent Rellik".
If any mods see this please help me to have a clean thread.
I've always been against any means to "push" people out of NPC corps and such. I just don't believe it's up to us to enforce that.
However, I do somehow agree to the notion that Capital ships shouldn't be available to NPC corp members. Not fully convinced though.
Would cattle prods help convince you? NPC freighters im empire are an epidemic. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
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Virvana Sharpur
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Posted - 2006.03.19 14:59:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Aramova
Oh my god!
Somebody made sense!
Well put Virvana.
NON-sense perhaps.
Making your own corp is a rank 1 skill.
Do that. The poster you quoted could have trained that skill to level 1 in the time it took them to write the tripe in their post.
The last I heard, piloting skills are under "starship command," not "corporation management."
The last I heard when we purchased a ship, we never had to purchase a corporation with it.
I always thought that when I was removed from a player corporation, they could only remove my ability to access the corporation's belongings, not my own personal belongings.
If only some of these players would stop worrying about how other people play the game, we might be able to actually play the game, instead of engaging in forum wars from disgriuntled elements that would rather nerf others, then play the game that's given.
____________ "Give me one frigate pilot with faith, over an armada of a thousand battleships." --Virvana mons Sharpur, The Fleet Prayer |
Virvana Sharpur
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Posted - 2006.03.19 15:11:00 -
[344]
Edited by: Virvana Sharpur on 19/03/2006 15:14:55
Originally by: Peservich
Originally by: Chammisse
And where did it say on the box people have to join a PC corp?
Show me anything that says i cant play the way i want to and Ill find a new game...
Terrible argument.
I want to have the opportunity to destroy your freighter. Why can you play the game the way you want to and I can't?
Because I would be affecting your gameplay and you aren't affecting mine? You affect my gameplay just by hauling, completing trade routes and selling items.
You're absolutely right. This should not be a one way road. You can affect my gameplay but I can't really affect yours.
This is nothing short of a pseudo-I-win button for carebears.
No, you have the most powerful way to affect the gameplay of another player.
You can hire and fire from your player corporation.
Because player corporations have this privilege, there needs to be a way players can keep on playing the game.
You don't like the NPC corps? "Pony up" and do the hard work of hiring these people, rather than whine to the developers why you shouldn't have to take responsibility for them, when you nerf their game.
____________ "Give me one frigate pilot with faith, over an armada of a thousand battleships." --Virvana mons Sharpur, The Fleet Prayer |
Kaaii
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Posted - 2006.03.19 15:30:00 -
[345]
WTS - A petition to "force" ccp to install permanent WCS low slots in freighters...
ftw
"I said it, so it must be true......"
"..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, than stand with One thousand sheep.."
Tradeing 101 |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.19 15:33:00 -
[346]
Originally by: Kaaii
WTS - A petition to "force" ccp to install permanent WCS low slots in freighters...
ftw
"I said it, so it must be true......"
Kaaii said it, so I also have to agree. ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Drizit
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Posted - 2006.03.19 15:50:00 -
[347]
I am not going to read all this but I want to add my point to the OP here even though it's probably been said before.
Freighters have no ability to shoot at you so why feel so threatened by them? Sure they roam around with no mids or lows so they can't tank and are completely at the mercy of anyone who decides to shoot at them. A bit like a blue whale, poses no threat to you at all and has no teeth to bite you with and can't swim away fast enough to avoid being harpooned.
If my corp was war dec'd and had a freighter, we would use it to transport supplies etc to the warzone. If it was going to be shot up on the way, I'd have it flown by a toon in another corp. You would have to war dec that corp as well and wait 24 hours before you could shoot at the freighter which is all the time I need to get my supplies home. Therefore the supply transport for war dec'd corps issue is not valid.
If someone is in a NPC corps and has made enough isk to buy a freighter by freelancing, good luck to them. Is it because your own corp doesn't pay you enough to buy one so you're jealous? Maybe you should ask the CEO to buy you one or go join another corp who will pay you better. That freelancer probably put in more hours grind to earn the isk to buy that frieghter than you ever did to earn your T2 ship that the corp probably just gave to you. Considering how hard it really is to earn very much in Empire, I'd say that freelancer did a damn good job and probably has more right to fly it safely than you have to shoot at it.
To me, you are just one of those who think everyone in Empire should not be allowed to have anything bigger than a T1 cruiser. Sorry pal, we pay our subs and unless your subs cost more, we should have the same rights to fly the same ships you have and use the same mods you do. We are already limited becasue we can't have our own POS in Empire space.
Since freighters have no slots, they have no ability to repair shields or armour or even hull. Seeing how much they cost, it's ridiculous to think anyone would want to fly them where they are going to get ganked. But I suppose you would buy a brand new top of the range Ferrari and drive it around the roughest area in town
-- Even at 27K my sig was blurred and naff. This is too restricting Cortes. |
Virvana Sharpur
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Posted - 2006.03.19 17:04:00 -
[348]
How about when a player leaves a corporation, or is fired from a corporation, they end up in a random player corporation, instead of an NPC one?
That solves the problem, doesn't it?
____________ "Give me one frigate pilot with faith, over an armada of a thousand battleships." --Virvana mons Sharpur, The Fleet Prayer |
Gretek Lal
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Posted - 2006.03.19 17:36:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Virvana Sharpur How about when a player leaves a corporation, or is fired from a corporation, they end up in a random player corporation, instead of an NPC one?
That solves the problem, doesn't it?
No. If I don't want to get involved in wars and other pvp nonsense, I should not have to. If the game is going to force me to join some player corp with goals I do not agree with, I'll find something other than Eve to occupy my free time.
I pay my Eve subscription just like you do. You want to live in low-sec? More power to you. I prefer to live in Empire. You will make a lot more ISK than me, but so what? I don't care. I just want to be left alone to play the game the way I prefer to play it.
I think the real issue in this low sec vs high sec "dispute" is that many of the low sec "blow-stuff-up" types have trouble recruiting for their corps and want to force everybody else to choose their "side." Lately there are 15,000-20,000 people logged on at any given time. Look how many corps have just 10-20 members. They want to fight wars but they can't muster the ships to make it "fun."
The "blow-stuff-up" types also want to generate a lot more easy targets.
They can't stand to see the Eve player who logs on for an hour here and there just to blow off a little RL stress and do a spot of mining and ratting and trading. They have contempt for players who just want to mine and don't like losing ships. Thus the silly "carebear" label.
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Virvana Sharpur
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Posted - 2006.03.19 20:06:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Gretek Lal
Originally by: Virvana Sharpur How about when a player leaves a corporation, or is fired from a corporation, they end up in a random player corporation, instead of an NPC one?
That solves the problem, doesn't it?
No. If I don't want to get involved in wars and other pvp nonsense, I should not have to. If the game is going to force me to join some player corp with goals I do not agree with, I'll find something other than Eve to occupy my free time.
I meant it as a joke, Gretek.
I actually agree with you 100%.
____________ "Give me one frigate pilot with faith, over an armada of a thousand battleships." --Virvana mons Sharpur, The Fleet Prayer |
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Gretek Lal
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Posted - 2006.03.19 21:54:00 -
[351]
Then I humbly apologize for missing your point.
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Sean Drake
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Posted - 2006.03.19 23:31:00 -
[352]
Hell I just wasted 15minutes of my life reading this thread and quite frankly alot of these responses make me want to puke. When did EvE fill up with such a large selection of spineless cretins.
I agree with the op that there needs to be more restrictions on NPC corps.As the current situation is obviously being abused.You can tell this by the large amount of alts and npc members whining in this thread.
I could come up with some well thought out reasons behind this but quite frankly it is not worth the effort and has mostly been said all ready.
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2006.03.20 01:46:00 -
[353]
Originally by: kim chee In what part of the world is it legal for a civilian to own and operate a pickup truck and NOT legal for them to own and operate a semi truck?
True, most places require that a semi truck driver passes a seperate (and more difficult) exam, to prove they know how to safely operate it... but that's why you can fly an indy with only the industrial skill, where a freighter requires you to max out that industrial skill AND learn a seperate freighter skill. Buying and training that skill is your license.
Not exactly. Right now I know how to drive a semi-truck from learning how to drive a stick shift and learning how to handle extremely large vehicles. This is the indi skills and freightor skill.
In order to use my semi I would have to join a group of people who are all licensed. This would be the equivalent of a pc corp. Knowing how to do something does not mean that it is ok for you to do it.
But what Iceblock and others are complaining of is the ability to wage Logistical or Economic warfare on my corp from the nigh invulnerability of an NPC corp.
Want to use capital ships to logistically or economically crush your opposition? You should join a PC corp. Otherwise you are exploiting concord to attack me without the ability to realistically retaliate.
And for those who say "omg u should just suicide 50 bs, duh" I would politely suggest that they have not encountered the new and improved concord recently.
Nyxus
Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
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Virvana Sharpur
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Posted - 2006.03.20 02:57:00 -
[354]
I'll agree to this notion of making freighters unable to be driven in an NPC corporation, on one condition.
That a player may be automatically accepted into ANY player run corporation he or she chooses, without review or approval by any of those who are officers.
If those in player corporations are going to determine who can, and cannot fly freighters, then those in NPC corporations should be able to govern who we in player corporations can and cannot accept into our ranks.
Its only fair. ____________ "Give me one frigate pilot with faith, over an armada of a thousand battleships." --Virvana mons Sharpur, The Fleet Prayer |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.03.20 03:15:00 -
[355]
"Terrible argument.
I want to have the opportunity to destroy your freighter. Why can you play the game the way you want to and I can't?
Because I would be affecting your gameplay and you aren't affecting mine? You affect my gameplay just by hauling, completing trade routes and selling items.
You're absolutely right. This should not be a one way road. You can affect my gameplay but I can't really affect yours.
This is nothing short of a pseudo-I-win button for carebears."
Uhm you just start playing EVE yesterday? It is the perfect arguement and the correct arguement. Last I checked there is no such thing as 100% secure/safe space in EVE. If you wanna kill someone in a frieghter amass the ships needed and kill the freighter. It isnt a 1 way road you can get a frieghter yourself and fight over his trader route.
The only thing carebear in this thread is the supposed PVP types who want risk free option to kill freighters.... not gonna happen this is EVE you cannot wipe yourself clean of risk mkay mr carebear pvper?
So stop acting like you can;t kill frieghters cause you can, you just don;t got the conviction to do it, because you can wack it like a hauler with an insured raven and walk away with guarenteed profit.
you can kill freighters if you lack the guts to do it STFU.
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Kim Chee
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Posted - 2006.03.20 07:48:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Nyxus
In order to use my semi I would have to join a group of people who are all licensed. This would be the equivalent of a pc corp. Knowing how to do something does not mean that it is ok for you to do it.
What part of the world are you in? In these parts, you don't need to join any kind of group to be an independant contract driver. You need a license that shows that you can safely operate a semi-truck. That's not joining a corporation, that's buying the skill book and training it. Everyone else on the road also needs a license to drive... that's the equivalent of frigate level 1, I guess.
Originally by: Nyxus
Want to use capital ships to logistically or economically crush your opposition? You should join a PC corp. Otherwise you are exploiting concord to attack me without the ability to realistically retaliate.
Or perhaps I'm simply hauling goods as an independant agent to make money... and really don't care what you or your corporation are doing.
<=----=> Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion. Kerr Avon: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
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RoMUF
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Posted - 2006.03.20 09:43:00 -
[357]
Are pirates too lazy to dust of the interdictor sphere launcher or whatever it's called? Why camp a gate when you can gank someone from warp, tackle it and shoot it to pieces wile no one can harm you. (I must admit im not sure how it works).
Isn't eve a TEAMPLAY game?? You can do alot of thing ssolo but in ateam you are so much more productive. If you get shot while your alone, too bad.. Should have gotten some defence. If you absloutely don't want pvp go play a single player game. The whole purpose of MMO is PVP IMHO (with pvp i don't only mean player versus player but also player with player).
A freighter pilot should make the most isks traveling to low sec space in an escort. Let those noobs wander around in empire alone.
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Drizit
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:22:00 -
[358]
Originally by: RoMUF Are pirates too lazy to dust of the interdictor sphere launcher or whatever it's called? Why camp a gate when you can gank someone from warp, tackle it and shoot it to pieces wile no one can harm you. (I must admit im not sure how it works).
Isn't eve a TEAMPLAY game?? You can do alot of thing ssolo but in ateam you are so much more productive. If you get shot while your alone, too bad.. Should have gotten some defence. If you absloutely don't want pvp go play a single player game. The whole purpose of MMO is PVP IMHO (with pvp i don't only mean player versus player but also player with player).
A freighter pilot should make the most isks traveling to low sec space in an escort. Let those noobs wander around in empire alone.
QFT
If those who think Empire dwellers have got it easy, they need to really know what graft is and get into empire for a while and try earning the isk to buy a frieghter. I build ships but have spent around 12 hours in total mining for the ore to build a Raven which would sell at a measly 100m isk. But I lose around 12m isk of that buying the ore I can't mine in Empire like Megacyte and Zydrine so my income from it is less than 90m isk. Those of you in 0.0 could earn that in less than an hour of ratting.
Those who want PVP combat have got more than half of the map to play in, why try to take over the noobs half as well. You can already do a lot more in lowsec and 0.0 than those in Empire, what is it with you people that you want to restrict Empire users even more? If you just want to shoot at someone, pick on the corps in lowsec - or are they too hard for you so you look for softer targets?
-- Even at 27K my sig was blurred and naff. This is too restricting Cortes. |
DeODokktor
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:59:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock its unfair that these gigantic things can fly around safely in empire space, and most of the pilots are alts, hauling alts..
just to ask, do you have any arguments for why they should not be changed?
I think the issue is that there is no way to stop griefing *******s who will dec on someone "just because" and then nothing comes out of this except a few happy *******s, and a lot of tick'd off people.
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Bhal'rog
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Posted - 2006.03.20 16:29:00 -
[360]
Edited by: Bhal''rog on 20/03/2006 16:29:09 So you get booted from your PC corp. What's the big Deal? You buy 1 skill, train for 15 minutes, start your own corp and you're flying in no time. If you leave your PC corp. while in space, you can continue to fly, but once you dock you're stuck until you're in another PC Corp.
War decs. won' come from pirates, they could give a rats butt about freighters, freighters drop nothing and are a waste of ammo.
The war decs. will come from competitors who wish to engage in a bit of gunboat diplomacy.
I think the real questions is, "Is it in Eve's best interest to allow a single player to make upwards of 500 million Isk a day risk free?"
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