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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Astarte Nosferatu
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Posted - 2006.03.13 18:50:00 -
[31]
I agree with Ice on this on. EvE is based on heavy PvP, and PvP consists mainly out of combat and industry. The general idea is that you should be able to kill anyone you like if you have enough resources. Players in npc corps, in capital ships and in high sec empire, are most likely impossible to kill (haven't tried yet ), so I too think it should be changed.
Originally by: Santiago Cortes
Thread has gone wildly off-topic, flamebait and little desire on anyone's part to read what anyone else has written.
Member of the [23] |
Carter Burke
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:20:00 -
[32]
Originally by: El Yatta
And how, exactly, do you shoot them when they are in an NPC corp, cannot be war declared and never leave Hi security? Even a squad of ganked-out suicide ravens cannot destroy a freighters HP before concord responds.
Freighter worth roughly a billion. Cargo worth whatever you scan in it. Seems to me that if you want to cost him that cash, hit him six or eight of those ravens. Seems to me even ten would do the job.
Come to think of it, don't use ravens. Use Megathrons with blasters. It's not like he's going anywhere in a hurry.
Jeez, how lazy do you have to be to petition to get Freighters made even more vulnerable?
CB
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Carter Burke
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:22:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu EvE is based on heavy PvP, and PvP consists mainly out of combat and industry.
And on that I disagree with you.
Sorry to burst your bubble here, but Eve is not "based on heavy PvP". It contains many more elements of PvP than other games, but it is not based on it. I and several folks I know have gone for years without learning a PvP skill. I think if you were to look at players-per-system at any given moment you'd see 80%+ of all players are in .5+.
CB
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Nifel
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:28:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Carter Burke
Originally by: El Yatta
And how, exactly, do you shoot them when they are in an NPC corp, cannot be war declared and never leave Hi security? Even a squad of ganked-out suicide ravens cannot destroy a freighters HP before concord responds.
Freighter worth roughly a billion. Cargo worth whatever you scan in it. Seems to me that if you want to cost him that cash, hit him six or eight of those ravens. Seems to me even ten would do the job.
Come to think of it, don't use ravens. Use Megathrons with blasters. It's not like he's going anywhere in a hurry.
Jeez, how lazy do you have to be to petition to get Freighters made even more vulnerable?
CB
If freighters actually dropped anything when you blow them up you might've had a point.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |
Bhaal
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:30:00 -
[35]
If players in NPC corps cannot fly Freighters, the they should not be able to fly BS' & Cruisers either.
Only let them fly Newb ships & Frigates...
The war dec'ers never stop whining do they?
Any corp or alliance worth fighting will have to move their freighters to 0.0 space, accompanied by a nice escort of BS' & support.
If your nads are too small to go after a freighter within that scenario, don't come crying to the forums because they are not on a silver platter for you in empire space.
Stop the *****ing...
------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Waldo Barnstormer
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:31:00 -
[36]
so some freighter pilot leaves his corp for some reason. why should he be punished just cause you have a problem with alts avoiding war.
loose = "not rigidly fastened or securely attached" | lose = "fail to win" |
Kerushi
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:32:00 -
[37]
just have 5k shutles in cargo incase of a suicide squad tries to hit u
only a few mil and can save ur multi-bil ass ________________ I don't DO graphics, here's a sig anyway, wubwoo - Cortes lol thanks :-) |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:36:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Carter Burke
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu EvE is based on heavy PvP, and PvP consists mainly out of combat and industry.
And on that I disagree with you.
Sorry to burst your bubble here, but Eve is not "based on heavy PvP". It contains many more elements of PvP than other games, but it is not based on it. I and several folks I know have gone for years without learning a PvP skill. I think if you were to look at players-per-system at any given moment you'd see 80%+ of all players are in .5+.
CB
Besides missions, EVERYTHING is based on PVP. If you're too dumb to realise that it's not our problem. PVP = player vs player, not combat.
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Sapater
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:43:00 -
[39]
Would really like to ask the mods to lock this thread. It has served absolutly NO purpose whatsoever.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Bhaal If players in NPC corps cannot fly Freighters, the they should not be able to fly BS' & Cruisers either.
Only let them fly Newb ships & Frigates...
The war dec'ers never stop whining do they?
Any corp or alliance worth fighting will have to move their freighters to 0.0 space, accompanied by a nice escort of BS' & support.
If your nads are too small to go after a freighter within that scenario, don't come crying to the forums because they are not on a silver platter for you in empire space.
Stop the *****ing...
And that explains it pretty much. there's nothing meaningfull to do with destroying freighters that never leave high secure space. they can run trade routes, and that's it. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
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Da Death
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Posted - 2006.03.13 19:57:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 13/03/2006 19:09:49 Make freighters unable to be driven when player is in NPC Corp!
Please be constructive like "Ardent Rellik".
If any mods see this please help me to have a clean thread.
constructive? how about letting us (constructive) know WHY u want prohibit peeps with npc corps to fly freighter?
Selling: Absolution - Curse - Gleam S - BPC's - check my bio
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Darth Vroevl
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:04:00 -
[42]
Posting in a worthless thread.
Basically if this was implemented, people would simply make a bunch of corps on their alts and shuffle the freighter character between them. Even if you could keep track of them all, have them all wardecced and and foot the bill, they'd simply make a new corp whenever they needed to move something.
In a nutshell, this is just another rehash of the pointless blablabla about alts/corpjumping during a wardec.
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General Tzu
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:05:00 -
[43]
who cares? if their in 0.0 you don't need to war dec them anyway. in 0.1-0.4, you will take a security hit but you should anyway. and a person using an alt specifically to avoid a war dec is exploiting a system moreso than the ones that only want to stay in empire and make a living without dealing with pirates. don't punish one player type by changing a system that is being exploited by another.
once again, this sounds like someone that wants the game to work for THEM rather than find how they fit in the game world.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Bhaal If players in NPC corps cannot fly Freighters, the they should not be able to fly BS' & Cruisers either.
Only let them fly Newb ships & Frigates...
The war dec'ers never stop whining do they?
Any corp or alliance worth fighting will have to move their freighters to 0.0 space, accompanied by a nice escort of BS' & support.
If your nads are too small to go after a freighter within that scenario, don't come crying to the forums because they are not on a silver platter for you in empire space.
Stop the *****ing...
hey Bhaal, i dont think you know who i am. please read the thread again..
Originally by: Da Death
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 13/03/2006 19:09:49...
constructive? how about letting us (constructive) know WHY u want prohibit peeps with npc corps to fly freighter?
read the thread please!
"We brake for nobody"
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0bsession
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:14:00 -
[45]
This has to be the dumbest idea for any petition I have ever seen. Let me get this straight... you DON'T want freighters to be in NPC corps, because YOU can't declare war on them and RUIN THEIR ENTIRE GAME PLAY?
Come on... are pvpers really getting that lazy?
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General Tzu
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:22:00 -
[46]
Originally by: 0bsession This has to be the dumbest idea for any petition I have ever seen. Let me get this straight... you DON'T want freighters to be in NPC corps, because YOU can't declare war on them and RUIN THEIR ENTIRE GAME PLAY?
Come on... are pvpers really getting that lazy?
only the selfish ones that believe the game is not fair unless THEY have the advantage..
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:29:00 -
[47]
Dude, I know who you are...
Quote: Make freighters unable to be driven when player is in NPC Corp!
Please be constructive like "Ardent Rellik".
If any mods see this please help me to have a clean thread.
I understand your point, you hate to see pilots jump ship and haul goods vital to a corp or an alliance scott free in an NPC corp.
I'm saying that you can't punish the legitimate Freighter pilots who don't jump corp, and use Feighters within Empire their whole "lives"
If you mean a pilot who has recently jumped ship, then sure, that makes sense... Just have to find a resonable time limit to "denegrate" his ability to fly a Freighter...
------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:33:00 -
[48]
What's the point. They can just log out while cloaked and save their ship regardless. This topic might be worth discussing if they fix that issue first.
Shamis
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0bsession
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:35:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz What's the point. They can just log out while cloaked and save their ship regardless. This topic might be worth discussing if they fix that issue first.
Shamis
Either way... its a topic not worthy of any more of my time. It wont ever be changed, and I'd bet the farm on it. SO get over it.
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bumcheekcity
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Posted - 2006.03.13 20:52:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sales Merchant So I'm STUCK in a npc corp, STUCK with 438 newbs talking about why thier mining lasers cant shoot, STUCK with people i dont wish to play with, not by choice but because as soon as I create my own corp or join a player one, we get War deced for NO REASON other than ive been seen in a slow ass freighter.
So please, go shoot people in 0.0 who actually have the ability to shoot back and leave non combatants alone, its nothing but griefing and im sick of it.
You arent stuck. Go join a different corp. There are plenty of corps out there who avoid combat and are Industyry/Carebear based. Perhaps consider hiring mercenaries?
And really, clling your industry char "Sales Merchant" and flying him around Jita in a hauler is just ASKING for trouble. -- bumcheekcity
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Kjal
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Posted - 2006.03.13 21:27:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Nifel
Originally by: Carter Burke
Freighter worth roughly a billion. Cargo worth whatever you scan in it. Seems to me that if you want to cost him that cash, hit him six or eight of those ravens. Seems to me even ten would do the job.
If freighters actually dropped anything when you blow them up you might've had a point.
He says cost him the value of cargo and freighter, not help yourself to the value of the cargo. So if the attacking fleet costs less than the combined value of cargo and freighter, the attacker is up on the exchange.
It's called attrition.
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Asane
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Posted - 2006.03.13 21:35:00 -
[52]
"Onoz I can't kill anything for free in empire space"
Empire space is for everyone to be in and feel protected, if you can't handle the fact that you can't survive 0.0 and feel the need to put all that anger you've bottled up during the years of being an underachiever, that's not our problem, and sure as hell not something to be projected unto people running traderoutes
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Jezala
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Posted - 2006.03.13 21:48:00 -
[53]
As much as it would hurt myself and my corp, I have to say I am in favor of such restriction.
It's one of those things that makes logistics warfare viable and promotes inter-corporation cooperations at the same time.
...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option. |
Zell
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Posted - 2006.03.13 22:01:00 -
[54]
OMG not another Ginger alt???!!!
"Ginger Magician is just a nublet. I've met more people ingame that have laughed about him, than anyone else in Eve."
"A coward dies a thousand times, the brave die just once.." |
Pascal DeSacre
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Posted - 2006.03.13 22:08:00 -
[55]
As someone else has already pointed out, PvP != combat. A Freighter pilot running trade routes entirely in high-sec is engaging in PvP against other traders also running the same route. He is using the Freighter to gain an advantage over his opponants flying normal industrials, just as a combat player would use a more powerful ship to engage his enemies.
So, why should those players be punished so it's easier for you to fight your enemies? Give me a reason, and not "because people can leave blah blah..", I read and accept that that's the case, Im asking pro-ban people to explain why their gameplay is more valuable than legitimate high-sec traders.
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Kunnia
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Posted - 2006.03.13 22:11:00 -
[56]
Its simply wrong to be able to hide in the safety of npc corps for free. Security should cost, so a compromise that could work is taxes.
You want the safety, alright, pay a 15% tax in this said npc corp, for the safety it provides, or find yourself a player based corp and provide it yourself. There you go.
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DaveW
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Posted - 2006.03.13 22:14:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kerushi cause u can escape war logistics with the alt
Alts.... what can't they do...? _________________________________________________________________
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Kerushi
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Posted - 2006.03.13 22:16:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Kerushi on 13/03/2006 22:16:52
Originally by: DaveW
Originally by: Kerushi cause u can escape war logistics with the alt
Alts.... what can't they do...?
dunno, have 1 as r&d and another as freighter hauler so i can be in a war decced corp
and no, they aren`t in npc corp as i can`t stand the constant spammage ________________ I don't DO graphics, here's a sig anyway, wubwoo - Cortes lol thanks :-) |
Kahor
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Posted - 2006.03.13 22:24:00 -
[59]
I am not sure wich side I am in, but I can see how freighter could litteraly 'rape' trade routes in high empire, rendering any good profit near impossible for new traders. I mean, trading is actualy more paying off in empire than in low sector (or at least it seems so), I know there is isk to be made selling things for a good price in low sectors for pirates and such etc...but let's face it you cannot beat a freighter in high sector trading with his cargohold...
Looks like a high reward low risk thing to me.
If I am wrong please explain, I welcome any comments.
(And for the record, I remember having found a decent insystem trade route, only to have the prices go down to tear a few seconds after a freighter docked...I was hauling the stuff in and out with a hoarder with instas to station and cargo expanders ^^).
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James Snowscoran
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Posted - 2006.03.13 22:27:00 -
[60]
Let's try to be nice here.
It's been stated by the devs that EVE is primarily a pvp game. When I mention 'pvp', I'm using a broad definition; anything from trading, to mining, politics, research, production and of course combat; any area where players compete against each other rather than against the game. The intention of EVE has from the beginning been that players start out in high sec space where CONCORD will protect them, but as the greatest riches are hidden in the recesses of low sec and 0.0 they will eventually have to venture there when they get old enough to stand on their own legs. The lawlessness of the lowsec areas encourages players to band together in corporations for mutual protection and assistance.
A solo player in a npc corp can make his own POS in empire space, but he will have to buy charters to keep it going, and he certainly won't get the fuel reduction bonus from controlling a system. He can also produce stuff at the stations in Empire, but it's cheaper to do so at player-run outposts and pos's. He can hunt rats, but they won't yield nearly as much profit as the lowsec/0.0 rats. He can mine, but won't find the best ore in Empire.
So CCP provides a number of incentives for players to leave the npc corps for player corps, and to leave high sec for low sec and 0.0, the idea being that these options should offer more risk but ultimately also much higher rewards. When more zydrine was added to the lowsec ores, it was in an effort to get players out there. It's a deliberate policy from CCPs side.
What people complain about is that there are several aspects of the game mechanics that goes against this policy. When freighters were introduced they made it possible to make tons of cash hauling goods through highsec with the help of instas. Lvl 4 agents in highsec systems provided an easy way to work around the lack of strong npc spawns in said systems. The lack of taxation in nub corps encourage people to stay.
Basically, I believe we should work with incentives, not with prohibitions. That said, the freighters were never intended to be giant Empire workhorses gushing cash without any risk for the owner. I believe players in npc corporations should have all transactions taxed, along with an income tax on rat bounties like those the ordinary corps can set.
But that might just be me. -----
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