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Sa Matra
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2013.12.29 01:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP needs to introduce a faction version of drone damage amplifiers in order to improve the balance in game. |

Johnathan Severasse
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
73
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Posted - 2013.12.29 01:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would find this incredibly useful. |

Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2656
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Posted - 2013.12.29 01:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sa Matra wrote:CCP needs to introduce a faction version of drone damage amplifiers in order to improve the balance in game. How about toning town the T2 version instead and introducing the Faction one with the T2 stats? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

The Djentleman Paulson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
152
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Posted - 2013.12.29 01:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Such an item would present a great advantage to the current drone meta doctrines and should be sufficiently rare as to fetch a handsome price! |

Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2656
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 01:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sa Matra wrote:CCP needs to introduce a faction version of drone damage amplifiers in order to improve the balance in game. Yes, because Drone Assist is so balanced...  I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2087
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 02:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sa Matra wrote:CCP needs to introduce a faction version of drone damage amplifiers in order to improve the balance in game. How about toning town the T2 version instead and introducing a Faction one with the T2 stats? T2 DDA gives an equal bonus to other damage modifiers. Should those also be nerfed to make the faction versions better? Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |

Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2656
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 02:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:T2 DDA gives an equal bonus to other damage modifiers. Should those also be nerfed to make the faction versions better? "Equal" is a matter of opinion. But since you want to have the T2 drone damage amplifier on par with the others, let's change it to 10% damage and 10.5% rate of fire. Then you can have 12.5% damage and 10.5% rate of fire with the Faction drone damage version. All good? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
941
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sa Matra wrote:CCP needs to introduce a faction version of drone damage amplifiers in order to improve the balance in game. How about toning town the T2 version instead and introducing a Faction one with the T2 stats? how about we stop making T2 universally worse than faction?
faction exists to help make up for a lack of skills, not a flat-out upgrade over T2. |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2087
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:T2 DDA gives an equal bonus to other damage modifiers. Should those also be nerfed to make the faction versions better? "Equal" is a matter of opinion. But since you want to have the T2 drone damage amplifier on par with the others, let's change it to 10% damage and 10.5% rate of fire. Then you can have 12.5% damage and 10.5% rate of fire with the Faction drone damage version. All good? Drone ROF does not work, that is why it gives a fixed 23% Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |

Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2656
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Drone ROF does not work, that is why it gives a fixed 23% Breaks my heart... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

stoicfaux
3747
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sa Matra wrote:CCP needs to introduce a faction version of drone damage amplifiers in order to improve the balance in game. What balance needs to be improved? T2 requires a couple of IV skills and is already pretty powerful. So power and skill reqs aren't in need of balance. Perhaps you're implying that faction DDAs need reduced fitting requirements?
|

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
624
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Sa Matra wrote:CCP needs to introduce a faction version of drone damage amplifiers in order to improve the balance in game. What balance needs to be improved? T2 requires a couple of IV skills and is already pretty powerful. So power and skill reqs aren't in need of balance. Perhaps you're implying that faction DDAs need reduced fitting requirements?
T2 items do need to be harder to train skill wise and more specialist but with more actual performance drawbacks.
T2 DDA .. 23% damage higher fitting and skill requirements .. slight range penalty
faction DDA's
federation DDA's ... 21% damage and a small tracking boost Imperial DDA's .... 19% damage and a slight range bonus
obviously caldari and minmatar shouldn't have any since they don't have drone focused ships..
and maybe an added meta 3 would be nice too - reduced fitting requirement Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans
181
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Posted - 2013.12.29 04:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
The key advantage of faction gear is near or higher than T2 performance at lower fitting cost thus allowing maximum pimp. A min maxers dream. LP store weapon cost rebalance |

Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
941
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 05:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:The key advantage of faction gear is near or higher than T2 performance at lower fitting cost thus allowing maximum pimp. A min maxers dream. the whole "better than tech 2 BUT less fitting" is what angers me, faction should either have higher fitting reqs but be better than T2, or be slightly lower fitting and just below T2 stats.
only thing that should be better than T2 is deadspace and officer, faction should be used to bridge the "skill gap" between T1 and T2, not fly right by it. |

Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
458
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 06:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sa Matra wrote:CCP needs to introduce a faction version of drone damage amplifiers in order to improve the balance in game. How about toning town the T2 version instead and introducing a Faction one with the T2 stats? T2 DDA gives an equal bonus to other damage modifiers. Should those also be nerfed to make the faction versions better?
Given how godmode an ishtar is alrrady with the currrent t2 amps: No, this would break sentries completely.
You also shouldn't compare DDAs to other damage mods like that, rven though it suits your position. By that logic, I'd propose to halve the omni's projection bonus to put it in line with TCs. Or to nerf garde's and curator-base tracking by 50% to put them in line with mega beams/350 rails... "I honestly thought I was in lowsec" |

Aliventi
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
627
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 06:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:The key advantage of faction gear is near or higher than T2 performance at lower fitting cost thus allowing maximum pimp. A min maxers dream. the whole "better than tech 2 BUT less fitting" is what angers me, faction should either have higher fitting reqs but be better than T2, or be slightly lower fitting and just below T2 stats. only thing that should be better than T2 is deadspace and officer, faction should be used to bridge the "skill gap" between T1 and T2, not fly right by it. Why? "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4612
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 06:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:T2 DDA gives an equal bonus to other damage modifiers. Should those also be nerfed to make the faction versions better? "Equal" is a matter of opinion. But since you want to have the T2 drone damage amplifier on par with the others, let's change it to 10% damage and 10.5% rate of fire. Then you can have 12.5% damage and 10.5% rate of fire with the Faction drone damage version. All good? I would agree with you... however... the problem is the code. Some DEVs have explained that they can't increase rate-of-fire for drones without "breaking them." So they made drone damage amps give a higher damage modifier to compensate. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |

scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Black Slag Authenticated Corrosive.
96
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 06:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:The key advantage of faction gear is near or higher than T2 performance at lower fitting cost thus allowing maximum pimp. A min maxers dream. the whole "better than tech 2 BUT less fitting" is what angers me, faction should either have higher fitting reqs but be better than T2, or be slightly lower fitting and just below T2 stats. only thing that should be better than T2 is deadspace and officer, faction should be used to bridge the "skill gap" between T1 and T2, not fly right by it. Why? What about that didn't make sense? T2 should be better than faction because T2 has higher skill requirements. Faction has the same skill requirements as T1 and in many cases is just plain better. Faction modules are presented as an intermediate module for the Meta 4 to T2 jump, but in effect are better than the T2 in most every case. To my knowledge the only existing faction modules that aren't better than their T2 counterparts are weapons, where T2 weapons actually tend to be better. Faction either needs to be better than T2, which kinda screws the point of having T2, or fall between Meta4 and T2. Consistently.
*Use of "faction" excludes deadspace and officer mods* |

Aliventi
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
627
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 08:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: What about that didn't make sense? T2 should be better than faction because T2 has higher skill requirements. Faction has the same skill requirements as T1 and in many cases is just plain better. Faction modules are presented as an intermediate module for the Meta 4 to T2 jump, but in effect are better than the T2 in most every case. To my knowledge the only existing faction modules that aren't better than their T2 counterparts are weapons, where T2 weapons actually tend to be better. Faction either needs to be better than T2, which kinda screws the point of having T2, or fall between Meta4 and T2. Consistently.
*Use of "faction" excludes deadspace and officer mods*
Just because something takes more skills to use doesn't mean it should be better. See? I can present an opinion as fact too.
I hate to break it to you faction should be better than T2. Meta modules are the intermediary from meta 0 to T2. Many meta 4 modules are equivalent or in some cases perform better than their T2 counterpart. Why would I pay for a faction item when a meta 4 item does just as well? I wouldn't and I hope you wouldn't also. That would be a waste of isk.
Faction modules have a place in the universe. They follow the CCP Rise "Exponential cost for linear reward" policy. In other words you are paying many times the T2 price for only a marginal gain. To some that will be worth it. To others it won't be. This leaves both T2 and faction a place in New Eden.
See? Faction can be better than T2 without screwing it over. "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |

Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
942
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 20:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: What about that didn't make sense? T2 should be better than faction because T2 has higher skill requirements. Faction has the same skill requirements as T1 and in many cases is just plain better. Faction modules are presented as an intermediate module for the Meta 4 to T2 jump, but in effect are better than the T2 in most every case. To my knowledge the only existing faction modules that aren't better than their T2 counterparts are weapons, where T2 weapons actually tend to be better. Faction either needs to be better than T2, which kinda screws the point of having T2, or fall between Meta4 and T2. Consistently.
*Use of "faction" excludes deadspace and officer mods*
Just because something takes more skills to use doesn't mean it should be better. See? I can present an opinion as fact too. I hate to break it to you faction should be better than T2. Meta modules are the intermediary from meta 0 to T2. Many meta 4 modules are equivalent or in some cases perform better than their T2 counterpart. Why would I pay for a faction item when a meta 4 item does just as well? I wouldn't and I hope you wouldn't also. That would be a waste of isk. Faction modules have a place in the universe. They follow the CCP Rise "Exponential cost for linear reward" policy. In other words you are paying many times the T2 price for only a marginal gain. To some that will be worth it. To others it won't be. This leaves both T2 and faction a place in New Eden. See? Faction can be better than T2 without screwing it over. my qualm isnt that T2 should be better for the sole fact that they have higher skill reqs, but because
faction are not only better ACROSS the board than T2 (which are supposed to be specialized modules) they ALSO have lower fitting requirements, meaning fi you have access to faction, there is little reason fro T2 to even exist.
im just saying faction shouldnt be better in EVERY REGARD to their t2 counterparts, its ridiculous. |

Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
124
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 21:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:The key advantage of faction gear is near or higher than T2 performance at lower fitting cost thus allowing maximum pimp. A min maxers dream. the whole "better than tech 2 BUT less fitting" is what angers me, faction should either have higher fitting reqs but be better than T2, or be slightly lower fitting and just below T2 stats. only thing that should be better than T2 is deadspace and officer, faction should be used to bridge the "skill gap" between T1 and T2, not fly right by it.
its a matter of "modules are balanced in tiers", we need to have a rebalance of this too, it would take time but would fix the problem of the current meta system
1. civilian == basic stuff
2. T1 == general use
3. named == has roles
4. T2 == specialized but it should have a drawback
5. storyline == over T1 but below faction
6. faction == better than T1 but has high requirements to fit
7. officer == slightly better than faction but has lesser requirements to fit
and finally an idea i had. 8. T3 == moddable modules that can be changed to several roles, slightly better than named modules but not so specialized as T2. (like T3 ships) |

Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2658
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 21:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Honestly, until they kill drone assist - any discussion of further enhancing drones is moot. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

Aliventi
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
627
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 22:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote: my qualm isnt that T2 should be better for the sole fact that they have higher skill reqs, but because
faction are not only better ACROSS the board than T2 (which are supposed to be specialized modules) they ALSO have lower fitting requirements, meaning fi you have access to faction, there is little reason fro T2 to even exist.
im just saying faction shouldnt be better in EVERY REGARD to their t2 counterparts, its ridiculous.
Why not? You still have yet to give a fact based reason why faction should not be better in every way than T2. You reasoning is based purely on your opinion.
It is not true that all faction modules are better at function and fitting requirements. There are many faction modules in which the only way they are better than T2 is in fitting requirement. Therefore the advantage is the fitting requirements. There are many modules where the fitting requirement is equivalent to the T2 module. The only advantage is its improved functionality.
You seem to still think that because faction exists and is better in some ways there is no reason for T2 to exist. You seem to miss the fact that T2 has one great advantage over faction: it can be mass produced. Faction items are limited by their ability to be sourced. If T2 didn't exist you would have to pay 115 mil every time you need a tracking enhancer. Or 400 mil every time you need an invul. This is simply unfeasible in New Eden where tens of thousands of ships are fit every day. So yet again I have show a fact based reasoning that T2 and Faction both have a place. "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |

Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
780
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 22:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sa Matra wrote:CCP needs to introduce a faction version of drone damage amplifiers in order to improve the balance in game. How about toning town the T2 version instead and introducing a Faction one with the T2 stats? how about we stop making T2 universally worse than faction? faction exists to help make up for a lack of skills, not a flat-out upgrade over T2. This could not be more false. Faction exists to augment player skill, not make up for a lack of. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |

Pankora t'Pastamancer
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
7
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 22:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Faction and Deadspace drone damage amps are currently both sorely missing (all other weapon platforms have these, come on) and would be hugely welcome. |

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
153
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 22:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Just what we need. Another faction LP item to be exploited by Incursion runners and their OP Concord floating LP. 
Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown |

Morgan Forksaws
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 22:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Pretty strange that CCP introduced officer DDAs before faction, I guess they wanted to create more content for drone regions but drone plexes still kinda lack good rewards. |

Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2660
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 23:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Pankora t'Pastamancer wrote:Faction and Deadspace drone damage amps are currently both sorely missing (all other weapon platforms have these, come on) and would be hugely welcome. We don't have Deadspace ballistic controls, gyrostabilizers, magnetic field stabilizers or heat sinks, either. Eliminate drone assist and I'll happily endorse a Faction drone damage amplifier.
Morgan Forksaws wrote:Pretty strange that CCP introduced officer DDAs before faction, I guess they wanted to create more content for drone regions but drone plexes still kinda lack good rewards. Not really. It's only recently that drones have become the new "OP" weapon of choice. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |

Poitot Dot
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 02:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
I agree with OP, and would like to add that there are many lore reasons to introduce faction DDAs. |

Arushia
Nova Labs
40
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 03:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:Just what we need. Another faction LP item to be exploited by Incursion runners and their OP Concord floating LP. 
Then don't add them to faction LP stores. Add them to the otherwise abysmal loot from rogue drone complexes and escalations.
Tired of lab queues in high-sec? Check out New Eden Research |
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