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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:39:00 -
[1]
Hi,
I'm new to this game but i learn quick. I like some levels of pvp but i'm not hardcore into it. This brings me to my question, looking at all the ships/mods in the game I cant help but notice how many ships/mods are strictly for pvping. For my main focus here is on capital ships (combat not haulers) I cant find a single reason why someone whoes not hardcore into Pvping would EVER put the effort (uh immense effort) to building/buying one.
So I was wondering (before buying the game) are the developers here only concerned on rewarding pvpers with such nice toys? or is it that these are relatively new features of the game and pve content will be added to where combat captial ships will be something someone like myself will ever have a need for them.
I hope no childish flamers get on this thread and tell me capital ships arent for "carebears" or whatever, i'm just curious if these great items will never be implemented for pve combat if not no worries I simply will play something else.
I just dont see it fair to award one group of players just nice items/prestige when we all pay the same amount every month.
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Double TaP
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:42:00 -
[2]
well im not a childish flamer, but Dreadnaughts arnt for carebears. The game is focused around the player interaction yes.
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:44:00 -
[3]
Edited by: ChinLee on 14/03/2006 01:50:34
Uh,
I think theres PLENTY of player inaction within pve... ever heard of a party? Why do people here count pvp as the only form of player interaction? ... next?
AND btw i'm not asking that these ships be flown in empire space (THUS even if i was a carebear with a Dread i could STILL get blown up in -5 space with it), what I am asking is will there ever be a reason BEYOND pvp to put the effort into making/buying/flying capital ships.
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Jason Kildaro
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:48:00 -
[4]
There are some pretty big rewards for PvE players as well. Outposts, Stations and Tech2 barges.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:50:00 -
[5]
To be honest it does not look like EvE is the game for you.
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:52:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Deja Thoris
To be honest it does not look like EvE is the game for you.
Oh i see.. so if i'm not a pvper I shouldnt play thnx for the info.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:53:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 14/03/2006 01:53:31
Originally by: ChinLee
Originally by: Deja Thoris
To be honest it does not look like EvE is the game for you.
Oh i see.. so if i'm not a pvper I shouldnt play thnx for the info.
What are you talking about?
And what do you mean by PvP?
Do you mean just combat?
There's PvP through the market and politics, too.
But no, capital ships are certainly not for PvE. Just like warp scramblers aren't.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jason Kildaro
There are some pretty big rewards for PvE players as well. Outposts, Stations and Tech2 barges.
Author I agree with these, but there are reasons why a pver would put the effort into making/getting these items, any reason for a pver to get a capital ship?
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Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:54:00 -
[9]
Well, I know the Battleships arn't the biggest, ships, but I see a LOT of miners useing them.
As for The BIG ships for non-PvP.. Well. how about guarding miners in 0.0 space? they'll have to be defended against pirates, both the NPC and the human kind.
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ChinLee
Originally by: Jason Kildaro
There are some pretty big rewards for PvE players as well. Outposts, Stations and Tech2 barges.
Author I agree with these, but there are reasons why a pver would put the effort into making/getting these items, any reason for a pver to get a capital ship?
Because every alliance needs its carebears.
An outpost is a great place to mine out of--you can put it in an arkanor system and just mine billions of ISK 
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Jason Kildaro
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ChinLee
Edited by: ChinLee on 14/03/2006 01:50:34
Uh,
I think theres PLENTY of player inaction within pve... ever heard of a party? Why do people here count pvp as the only form of player interaction? ... next?
AND btw i'm not asking that these ships be flown in empire space (THUS even if i was a carebear with a Dread i could STILL get blown up in -5 space with it), what I am asking is will there ever be a reason BEYOND pvp to put the effort into making/buying/flying capital ships.
Well why would you want a dread then? I guess you could solo a complex with a dread but other than that there is no reason to build a capital ship for PvE.
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Eternal Fury
Well, I know the Battleships arn't the biggest, ships, but I see a LOT of miners useing them.
As for The BIG ships for non-PvP.. Well. how about guarding miners in 0.0 space? they'll have to be defended against pirates, both the NPC and the human kind.
I see your point here Aurther but if the only reason a pver would get these ships are for gaurd duty  dunno about you but that doesnt sound like much fun.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: ChinLee
Originally by: Eternal Fury
Well, I know the Battleships arn't the biggest, ships, but I see a LOT of miners useing them.
As for The BIG ships for non-PvP.. Well. how about guarding miners in 0.0 space? they'll have to be defended against pirates, both the NPC and the human kind.
I see your point here Aurther but if the only reason a pver would get these ships are for gaurd duty dunno about you but that doesnt sound like much fun.
Huh?
Battleships are a requirement for level 4 missions...
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What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Jason Kildaro
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Posted - 2006.03.14 01:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: ChinLee
Originally by: Eternal Fury
Well, I know the Battleships arn't the biggest, ships, but I see a LOT of miners useing them.
As for The BIG ships for non-PvP.. Well. how about guarding miners in 0.0 space? they'll have to be defended against pirates, both the NPC and the human kind.
I see your point here Aurther but if the only reason a pver would get these ships are for gaurd duty dunno about you but that doesnt sound like much fun.
Well Battleships are used for level 4 missions as well.
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Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:00:00 -
[15]
The thing is, you ask about big ships and who they reward. Well, there are big combat ships, and big cargo ships. Which suits your game play.
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken.
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jason Kildaro
Originally by: ChinLee
Edited by: ChinLee on 14/03/2006 01:50:34
Uh,
I think theres PLENTY of player inaction within pve... ever heard of a party? Why do people here count pvp as the only form of player interaction? ... next?
AND btw i'm not asking that these ships be flown in empire space (THUS even if i was a carebear with a Dread i could STILL get blown up in -5 space with it), what I am asking is will there ever be a reason BEYOND pvp to put the effort into making/buying/flying capital ships.
Well why would you want a dread then? I guess you could solo a complex with a dread but other than that there is no reason to build a capital ship for PvE.
Gotcha, thats basically all I was asking, was hoping the devs of this game put some thought/consideration for the differnt player types of eve, but I see they are really only concerned about the pvpers, which isnt a problem hey its their game, just sad to see a game with such great potentional limit itself to one aspect of mmoing. I saw a thread about why there arent any random npc "POSs" that we could attack that would be nice pveing and for the pvper whiners.. they could always ambush the corp trying to take down the POS, but ah well.. thanks for the replys.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:03:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 14/03/2006 02:03:30
Originally by: ChinLee
Originally by: Jason Kildaro
Originally by: ChinLee
Edited by: ChinLee on 14/03/2006 01:50:34
Uh,
I think theres PLENTY of player inaction within pve... ever heard of a party? Why do people here count pvp as the only form of player interaction? ... next?
AND btw i'm not asking that these ships be flown in empire space (THUS even if i was a carebear with a Dread i could STILL get blown up in -5 space with it), what I am asking is will there ever be a reason BEYOND pvp to put the effort into making/buying/flying capital ships.
Well why would you want a dread then? I guess you could solo a complex with a dread but other than that there is no reason to build a capital ship for PvE.
Gotcha, thats basically all I was asking, was hoping the devs of this game put some thought/consideration for the differnt player types of eve, but I see they are really only concerned about the pvpers, which isnt a problem hey its their game, just sad to see a game with such great potentional limit itself to one aspect of mmoing. I saw a thread about why there arent any random npc "POSs" that we could attack that would be nice pveing and for the pvper whiners.. they could always ambush the corp trying to take down the POS, but ah well.. thanks for the replys.
Are you purposefully ignoring all the posts in this thread saying otherwise?
Or are you just blind?
And what is your definition of "PvE" anyways? Is crafting PvE? Is running a starbase PvE? Are missions PvE? Are COSMOS missions PvE? These are all MASSIVE portions of the game designed specifically for PvE.
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JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:04:00 -
[18]
If your not into the combat PvP, then you will find little use in the Capital ships. And just for PvE, since most Capital ships (only one I can think of that this doesn't apply to is the freighter) have jump drives, and can't use gates, so they would be extremly costly, and you would never make any isk if your buying fuel all the time.
http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:05:00 -
[19]
And I don't get why its a bad thing that Capital Ships aren't for PvE.
Freighters don't help you in PvP, but we're not complaining about them being useless. We aren't asking for guns to be equippable on freighters.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 14/03/2006 02:03:30
Originally by: ChinLee
Originally by: Jason Kildaro
Originally by: ChinLee
Edited by: ChinLee on 14/03/2006 01:50:34
Uh,
I think theres PLENTY of player inaction within pve... ever heard of a party? Why do people here count pvp as the only form of player interaction? ... next?
AND btw i'm not asking that these ships be flown in empire space (THUS even if i was a carebear with a Dread i could STILL get blown up in -5 space with it), what I am asking is will there ever be a reason BEYOND pvp to put the effort into making/buying/flying capital ships.
Well why would you want a dread then? I guess you could solo a complex with a dread but other than that there is no reason to build a capital ship for PvE.
Gotcha, thats basically all I was asking, was hoping the devs of this game put some thought/consideration for the differnt player types of eve, but I see they are really only concerned about the pvpers, which isnt a problem hey its their game, just sad to see a game with such great potentional limit itself to one aspect of mmoing. I saw a thread about why there arent any random npc "POSs" that we could attack that would be nice pveing and for the pvper whiners.. they could always ambush the corp trying to take down the POS, but ah well.. thanks for the replys.
Are you purposefully ignoring all the posts in this thread saying otherwise?
Or are you just blind?
And what is your definition of "PvE" anyways? Is crafting PvE? Is running a starbase PvE? Are missions PvE? Are COSMOS missions PvE? These are all MASSIVE portions of the game designed specifically for PvE.
1. No replys have stated any reason for a pver to ever dream of getting a capital ship (notice the word capital)
2. Do not compare the "reward" of flying a BS to flying a capital ship.
3. How is running a starbase "pve" Pve = Player VERUS environment.
4. YOU need to read the question before calling anyone blind.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:09:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 14/03/2006 02:11:17
Originally by: ChinLee
1. No replys have stated any reason for a pver to ever dream of getting a capital ship (notice the word capital)
You ignored another post of mine, again. Capital ships aren't for PvE, while Freighters aren't for PvP, just like Warp Disruptors aren't for PvE.
Originally by: ChinLee
2. Do not compare the "reward" of flying a BS to flying a capital ship.
What are you talking about? You're not making much sense.
Originally by: ChinLee
3. How is running a starbase "pve" Pve = Player VERUS environment.
Because there's no players that are trying to stop you from doing it.
Originally by: ChinLee
4. YOU need to read the question before calling anyone blind.
So answer my question: what is your definition of PvE? You seem to think that the only form of PvE in the game is killing NPCs. Which it isn't.
I'd say a good 80% of the game content is completely unrelated to PvP, if not more.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ChinLee
was hoping the devs of this game put some thought/consideration for the differnt player types of eve,
Whining before purchase. You may just fit in.
EvE is about the journey, not the destination. It's a massive universe full of surprises and intracies worth discovering. You havent even purchased the game and you are looking at "end game" ships. What happened with enjoying the ride?
When I said EvE probably isnt the game for you, I meant it in terms of the above paragraph, not in terms of "there is no PvE content"
Theres plenty of PvE content. The dev's have done extensive work on that part of the game. Theres always room for improvement ofc but your quoted statement makes you sound like an ill-informed 12 year old WoW brat.
Dreads and other capital ships are not useful PvE ships at the moment. But in 18 months when you *may* be able to fly one perhaps they will be. Who knows?
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Gamer4liff
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:10:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 14/03/2006 02:11:33
Oh great, this thread again.
At any rate there is plenty of content for non pvpers,
ever tried COSMOS agents?
Edit: Seconding post below mine.
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
And I don't get why its a bad thing that Capital Ships aren't for PvE.
Freighters don't help you in PvP, but we're not complaining about them being useless. We aren't asking for guns to be equippable on freighters.
Well lets see... you have 2 kids, one you give the keys to a 2006 ferrai the other you have the keys to a 1982 corolla and tell them to take their new toys out for a test drive.
This is the same effect of how its setup atm. So yea the one driving the ferrai goes "duh... whats wrong with what your driving?" to the one in the corolla, I wonder why.
What the hell would be wrong in comming up with Pve content for capital ships in .0 space? Then again I dont think the kid with the ferrai would lend the keys over to the other for a test drive either.
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:15:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 14/03/2006 02:11:17
Originally by: ChinLee
1. No replys have stated any reason for a pver to ever dream of getting a capital ship (notice the word capital)
You ignored another post of mine, again. Capital ships aren't for PvE, while Freighters aren't for PvP, just like Warp Disruptors aren't for PvE.
Originally by: ChinLee
2. Do not compare the "reward" of flying a BS to flying a capital ship.
What are you talking about? You're not making much sense.
Originally by: ChinLee
3. How is running a starbase "pve" Pve = Player VERUS environment.
Because there's no players that are trying to stop you from doing it.
Originally by: ChinLee
4. YOU need to read the question before calling anyone blind.
So answer my question: what is your definition of PvE? You seem to think that the only form of PvE in the game is killing NPCs. Which it isn't.
I'd say a good 80% of the game content is completely unrelated to PvP, if not more.
The definiton of VERUS relates to against.. so again runnign a star base could never be pve because the STARBASE isnt attacking you.
If you dont understand what I mean by the term "Do not compare the "reward" of flying a BS to flying a capital ship." Then theres no further need for you to reply. Thnx
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: ChinLee
Originally by: Dark Shikari
And I don't get why its a bad thing that Capital Ships aren't for PvE.
Freighters don't help you in PvP, but we're not complaining about them being useless. We aren't asking for guns to be equippable on freighters.
Well lets see... you have 2 kids, one you give the keys to a 2006 ferrai the other you have the keys to a 1982 corolla and tell them to take their new toys out for a test drive.
This is the same effect of how its setup atm. So yea the one driving the ferrai goes "duh... whats wrong with what your driving?" to the one in the corolla, I wonder why.
What the hell would be wrong in comming up with Pve content for capital ships in .0 space? Then again I dont think the kid with the ferrai would lend the keys over to the other for a test drive either.
What are you talking about here? You seem to completely misunderstand EVE.
Dreadnoughts and carriers are not "end game ships." In fact, compared to most other ships in EVE, they are basically useless. Dreadnoughts are ONLY effective for taking down starbases, and carriers are ONLY effective in small fleet combat, and even then aren't too effective due to their very weak tanks.
I'd far rather fly a battleship or even a cruiser than a dreadnought.
In PvE, a Harpy (T2 frigate) can complete level 3 missions considerably fast (=more ISK) than a much larger Ferox, or even a battleship.
In PvE, a Deimos (T2 cruiser) can complete level 4 missions and kill 0.0 NPCs and loot them much faster than most battleships.
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0bsession
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:22:00 -
[27]
freighters are capital ships... and good for PvE. It does seem there is getting to be a bigger gap between the PvPers and the PvEers... honest truth is, if you are mulling around anywhere in low sec with a carrier or dread, you'll have a big red X on you. PvPers will be drolling to pop your billion dollar investment and laughing as they do it. PvP has become gank the small guy... But to be honest, there's plenty of action in Empire... a capital ship is nice, but not a needed toy to have fun.
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Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:22:00 -
[28]
I'd venture the guess that Carriers are pretty awesome for PvE.
At least coop pve.
Assault Missile Launcher Improvement
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: 0bsession
freighters are capital ships... and good for PvE. It does seem there is getting to be a bigger gap between the PvPers and the PvEers... honest truth is, if you are mulling around anywhere in low sec with a carrier or dread, you'll have a big red X on you. PvPers will be drolling to pop your billion dollar investment and laughing as they do it. PvP has become gank the small guy... But to be honest, there's plenty of action in Empire... a capital ship is nice, but not a needed toy to have fun.
Finally a reply that makes sense! (Aurther you been awesome too!) I just wanted to see if the gap I notice (between pvping and pveing) was actually there or if i was missing something. Yea, I also agree with theres lots more fun things to do with pve (in empire or low sec) again thnx for the replys just helped a new player out  And although I'm only one i'm SURE plenty have noticed the trend of this game.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: ChinLee
Originally by: 0bsession
freighters are capital ships... and good for PvE. It does seem there is getting to be a bigger gap between the PvPers and the PvEers... honest truth is, if you are mulling around anywhere in low sec with a carrier or dread, you'll have a big red X on you. PvPers will be drolling to pop your billion dollar investment and laughing as they do it. PvP has become gank the small guy... But to be honest, there's plenty of action in Empire... a capital ship is nice, but not a needed toy to have fun.
Finally a reply that makes sense! (Aurther you been awesome too!) I just wanted to see if the gap I notice (between pvping and pveing) was actually there or if i was missing something. Yea, I also agree with theres lots more fun things to do with pve (in empire or low sec) again thnx for the replys just helped a new player out And although I'm only one i'm SURE plenty have noticed the trend of this game.
You didn't read my 3 or 4 posts saying that freighters are great PvE ships?
I have one, and its definitely one of the best PvE ships there is. Haul millions of trade goods around, make tons of ISK. Its quite effective. But extremely slow.
As in 40 seconds to warp.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Death Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:34:00 -
[31]
Chinlee,
some free advise. DONT TAKE UP EVE.
omg you are either trying not to understand or are a complete dumb a**.
you on a trial account. do you have any idea how long it will take you to get into a capital ship.
The post above have made good points to your questions.
omg what the hell was with the little car talk.
If you want to get a Capital ship get one. is it going to be practical? HELL NO.
Regards
(a very frustrated) Death
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:35:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Death Unleashed
Chinlee,
some free advise. DONT TAKE UP EVE.
omg you are either trying not to understand or are a complete dumb a**.
you on a trial account. do you have any idea how long it will take you to get into a capital ship.
The post above have made good points to your questions.
omg what the hell was with the little car talk.
If you want to get a Capital ship get one. is it going to be practical? HELL NO.
Regards
(a very frustrated) Death
Being that harsh is probably simply going to alienate him. Most people used to normal MMORPGs need at least a few days, if not weeks or months to adjust to the climate of EVE. Once they understand how the game works, they will know the answers to questions like these. However, flaming them out of the game on the first day is not going to help.
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:36:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
You didn't read my 3 or 4 posts saying that freighters are great PvE ships?
I have one, and its definitely one of the best PvE ships there is. Haul millions of trade goods around, make tons of ISK. Its quite effective. But extremely slow.
As in 40 seconds to warp.
Ignore him, about the best advice one can give now. He clearly doesn't even know what he wants to ask, since he asked at the start about capital ships for PvE, and then just above yours stated he just wanted to know if some gap was present.
Ignoring people who actually know what their talking about FTL. Ignoring people who deserve it FTW
http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 14/03/2006 02:19:39
Originally by: ChinLee
Let me slow down for you........
They Should Create PVE content FOR capital ships.
That way MAYBE they wouldnt be as "useless" as you yourself stated.
And I say they should create PvE content for freighters. I will now proceed to ram my freighter into the NPCs until they die.
And they should have PvE content for shuttles too.
Right.
No.
Do you not understand the concept of a ship that exists soley as a tool to do a specific task?
You are so blind to reason here that I suspect you're simply trolling for the fun of it. There is no way someone who can spell this well is actually this ignorant.
P.S. Stop removing the parts of my post that destroy your argument. Selective quoting is bad, mmkay?
Do you NOT understand that PVPing and PVEing are NOT task? they are features of a game. A TASK is something you do in a mission. There is no difference in a npc attacking you or a player BESIDES the AI, thus its the same "TASK" as you put it.
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Oombha
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:38:00 -
[35]
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a troll 
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JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: ChinLee
Do you NOT understand that PVPing and PVEing are NOT task? they are features of a game. A TASK is something you do in a mission. There is no difference in a npc attacking you or a player BESIDES the AI, thus its the same "TASK" as you put it.
A task is anything you want it to be. Right now, I have a task of moving over 10,000m3 of trit 12 jumps, then repeating that about 7+ times. And, since I'm doing this, my CEO doesn't have to buy this trit, so I succesfully complete a form of PvP AND PvE, since other players don't get the isk for it, and less if any is purchased from npc orders.
http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:39:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Oombha
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a troll
Agreed. Mods?
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:39:00 -
[38]
Originally by: ChinLee
Do you NOT understand that PVPing and PVEing are NOT task? they are features of a game. A TASK is something you do in a mission. There is no difference in a npc attacking you or a player BESIDES the AI, thus its the same "TASK" as you put it.
In that case, there are plenty of effective PvE capital ships, as I have said 6 FREAKING TIMES NOW.
Freighters can do courier missions and NPC trading, both of which are PvE, as you are competing merely against computer entities.
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:40:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Death Unleashed
Chinlee,
some free advise. DONT TAKE UP EVE.
omg you are either trying not to understand or are a complete dumb a**.
you on a trial account. do you have any idea how long it will take you to get into a capital ship.
The post above have made good points to your questions.
omg what the hell was with the little car talk.
If you want to get a Capital ship get one. is it going to be practical? HELL NO.
Regards
(a very frustrated) Death
lmao nice response... very mature. The car talk was for the poster who couldnt understand the difference in giving one group of players something comparable to a ferrai while giving the others something comparable to a corolla to do the SAME thing, PVP AND PVE, again the ONLY difference in the 2 is AI and someone saying in local chat "omg you just got pawNzed" though even that the AI could do.
Really is what i'm trying to say such a hard concept? or is it just that you pvpers dont want pvers to have anything anywhere close to what you get? even if it took 10 years to get into a capital combat ship the point is we all would have that goal.
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0bsession
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:40:00 -
[40]
he's right... by the time you get into a capital ship, you'll be 2 years old to effectivly fly it (esitimated)... plus, they'll be many new patches for more stuff.
my main is training for an Archon and should have it by May... but the problem will be, where do I use it. I do pvp, but not much... it would help out corp, but then it will also be a huge expense if lost. I guess its just something I can say... "Look at me". But, I'm more a more white collar player... not so much blue collar now, as I've been in game almost 3 years off and on and have experience everything.
some capital ships are just for alliances... its not really a solo toy.
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Death Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:42:00 -
[41]
Im sorry i realise i was harsh.
But it seems he doesnt know what he realy wants to know and is coplaining that no one can answer his questions.
I understand eve is hard in the beginning, but when people give you advise you say thank you, you dont start argueing that they arent answering you questions.
Remember 'you catch more flys with honey then you do with vinigar'
Regards
Death
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Cylynex
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:44:00 -
[42]
I am in a very small corp. We don't pvp. I have more isk than I could ever know what to do with, a fleet of capital ships that I fly regularly, and I have quite a bit of fun playing Eve, without ever PVP'ing. There is a lot more than PVP to this game. PVP is just 1 aspect to the game.
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JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:45:00 -
[43]
Originally by: ChinLee
Originally by: Death Unleashed
Chinlee,
some free advise. DONT TAKE UP EVE.
omg you are either trying not to understand or are a complete dumb a**.
you on a trial account. do you have any idea how long it will take you to get into a capital ship.
The post above have made good points to your questions.
omg what the hell was with the little car talk.
If you want to get a Capital ship get one. is it going to be practical? HELL NO.
Regards
(a very frustrated) Death
lmao nice response... very mature. The car talk was for the poster who couldnt understand the difference in giving one group of players something comparable to a ferrai while giving the others something comparable to a corolla to do the SAME thing, PVP AND PVE, again the ONLY difference in the 2 is AI and someone saying in local chat "omg you just got pawNzed" though even that the AI could do.
Really is what i'm trying to say such a hard concept? or is it just that you pvpers dont want pvers to have anything anywhere close to what you get? even if it took 10 years to get into a capital combat ship the point is we all would have that goal.
Just stop posting, please. Your obviously either trolling or ignoring good posts.
http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
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Toboor Carlsch
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:53:00 -
[44]
Originally by: ChinLee, very strange boy
i'm just curious if these great items will never be implemented for pve combat if not no worries I simply will play something else.
Me, Toboor, pull out white handkerchief from chest pocket and wave in "toodles" fashion at strange boy who ask many question and yell lots as he sail away in shuttle toward other galaxy. Toboor say BYE BYE and wish young man good time on journey to galaxy of RF Online.
BYE BYE! |
ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:57:00 -
[45]
Edited by: ChinLee on 14/03/2006 02:59:51
Originally by: JamesTalon
Originally by: Dark Shikari
You didn't read my 3 or 4 posts saying that freighters are great PvE ships?
I have one, and its definitely one of the best PvE ships there is. Haul millions of trade goods around, make tons of ISK. Its quite effective. But extremely slow.
As in 40 seconds to warp.
Ignore him, about the best advice one can give now. He clearly doesn't even know what he wants to ask, since he asked at the start about capital ships for PvE, and then just above yours stated he just wanted to know if some gap was present.
Ignoring people who actually know what their talking about FTL. Ignoring people who deserve it FTW
Yet you keep replying hmmm
I'll take your advise and make this my last post as I see you pvpers are admant about defending your rights to being the only ones to use capital ships.
Question:
Would there ever be a reason for a pver to ever aspire to obtaining a combat capital ship for the reason of pve content
I'm guessing the answer here is NO.
Question:
Is this by design or are capital ships relatively new aspects of the game and TRUE pve content for them would be added later.
I'm guessing the answer here is NO.
Synopsis:
give the PVPers REALLY nice tools/features and if your not into that lvl of pvp screw you, you'll never have PRACTICAL use for these ships. Although player VERUS player and player VERUS ENVIORNMENT are basically the SAME THING. How you count transporting goods 35 hops in a capital ship the same as player VS ENVIORMENT I'll never know, unless the packages your hauling have the risk of blowing up and destroying your ship ....
Again thnx to the peeps with real responses.
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Morgen Kell
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:58:00 -
[46]
ChinLee, it seems everyone is missing your point and I guess they think it's so... cool to use the word "Carebear", you guys need new material me thinks.
ChinLee's point is why can't everyone use ALL ships created by the EVE game and I agree. I would love to pilot the biggest and best ship, everyone wants to no matter what role there playing in EVE-Online.
And for the people who think this message is a... what do you call it... *thinks*... oh thats right "Carebear" reply.
You guys are Pridictably Pathetic.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.03.14 02:59:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Toboor Carlsch
Originally by: ChinLee, very strange boy
i'm just curious if these great items will never be implemented for pve combat if not no worries I simply will play something else.
Me, Toboor, pull out white handkerchief from chest pocket and wave in "toodles" fashion at strange boy who ask many question and yell lots as he sail away in shuttle toward other galaxy. Toboor say BYE BYE and wish young man good time on journey to galaxy of RF Online.
BYE BYE!
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:00:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Huh?
Battleships are a requirement for level 4 missions...
You're forgetting HACs and command ships. And, of course, teamwork.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Arkanor
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:01:00 -
[49]
Dreadnaughts are meant for large Fleet-On-Fleet action. Battleships seem to have gone mainstream though.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:01:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Morgen Kell
I would love to pilot the biggest and best ship, everyone wants to no matter what role there playing in EVE-Online.
And for the people who think this message is a... what do you call it... *thinks*... oh thats right "Carebear" reply.
You guys are Pridictably Pathetic.
I have the ISK and SP to be in a capital ship should I have chosen to train for one. I didnt.
Therefore your statement above is not valid.
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:03:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Morgen Kell
ChinLee, it seems everyone is missing your point and I guess they think it's so... cool to use the word "Carebear", you guys need new material me thinks.
ChinLee's point is why can't everyone use ALL ships created by the EVE game and I agree. I would love to pilot the biggest and best ship, everyone wants to no matter what role there playing in EVE-Online.
And for the people who think this message is a... what do you call it... *thinks*... oh thats right "Carebear" reply.
You guys are Pridictably Pathetic.
THE END....
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JamesTalon
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:07:00 -
[52]
Originally by: ChinLee
I see you pvpers are admant about defending your rights to being the only ones to use capital ships.
I'm not a PvPer. I've fought a player in combat twice. First was self defence, the second was with my corp. If you want to see what I do, go out to an asteroid belt and find a retriever mining a belt. That is what I do. I'm a carebear miner. I don't like fighting personally, and I'd avoid it if possible.
Quote:
Question:
Would there ever be a reason for a pver to ever aspire to obtaining a combat capital ship for the reason of pve content
I'm guessing the answer here is NO.
Since there is hardly any capital ships, for the moment, then there is no real reason to get one if your just running missions or doing complexes.
Quote:
Question:
Is this by design or are capital ships relatively new aspects of the game and TRUE pve content for them would be added later.
I'm guessing the answer here is NO.
Titans, Carriers, and Motherships. All new to Eve, and only 3 months old or so. They were released with Red Moon Rising, which came out late november, early december. If a PvE application can be found for them, then someone will find it, but as it stands, using Capital ships, as I said before, is too costly for just PvEing.
Quote:
Synopsis:
give the PVPers REALLY nice tools/features and if your not into that lvl or pvp screw you, you'll never have practical use for these ships. Although player VERUS player and player VERUS ENVIORNMENT are basically the SAME THING. How you count transporting goods 35 hops in a capital ship the same as pve I'll never know, unless the packages your hauling have the risk of blowing up and destroying your ship ....
I'm not 100% sure on freighters being great PvE ships, as I'm not one to run trades, but DS is someone that I would trust on that stuff.
Quote:
Again thnx to the peeps with real responses.
So basically your saying thanks to people you ignored?
http://caldarisurplus.2myip.net
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Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:15:00 -
[53]
Chinlee. the one thing you seem to be confuseing everyone about is what you mean by PvE.
In THIS Game PvE is a few things.
the MAIN one is Player vs NPC controlled ship. Commonly known as Rats.
Will a Capital ship help you in doing this. Sure. But it's overkill.
PvP is MAINLY combat between player controlled ships. Will a capital ship help you here. Yes.
There is also PvP Mineing. Miners who by them selves, or with friends, defend a roid belt from others. It doesn't matter if the "Others" are NPC or Player controlled. They still have to be defended against. Will a Capital ship help here. Sure. But again it'll be overkill.
PvE/P is also the market. Tradeing. It's "War" (read Combat) in that the traders vie for control of certain markets. this is their form of PvP. but because in Most cases there is no actual fireing of weapons, this is ALSO concidered PvE. will a capital ship help here, YES. BUT the capital ship in question are the largest of the large haulers. They are NOT combat ships, but just for Hauling large cargo's.
in all these cases a "capital ship" will help in some cases, and not in others. You can use a baseball bat to kill a fly, but it's easier and cheaper with a flyswatter. This is why most combat is not with Capital ships.
Are capital ships as usefull for PvEers as PvPers, yes and no. it depends on if you mean the fighters, or the haulers. they are both capital ships, but each has it's role.
Is the game aimed at PvPers. Yes. But in the 2 months I've been here, I've only encountered PvP maybe 5 times, and that's it. The rest has been PvE.
Make of it as you will.
A capital ship is a Big ship with either big guns, or a big cargo hold. Which one you use will depend on what you want to do.
-
-
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."
H.L. Mencken.
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Grigori Sokolov
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:23:00 -
[54]
ChinLee, as you may have found out, capital ships (freighters excluded) are restricted mostly to PvP at the moment. However, it does not appear that this will stay this way forever. Level 5 agents are coming. I don't know when or where, but I have seen them around. I'd be willing to bet you'll find a PVE use for a dread in that situation. Until then, if you do decide to play EVE, enjoy your stay, and please, don't smacktalk in local.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:25:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
I hope this helps.
OK, this guy puts it better than me. :D.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Tekka
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:27:00 -
[56]
yoo this thread be entertainin
»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:36:00 -
[57]
Thanks Nyphur and Telemicus, I believe you two have answered my question.
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ChinLee
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:39:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Grigori Sokolov
ChinLee, as you may have found out, capital ships (freighters excluded) are restricted mostly to PvP at the moment. However, it does not appear that this will stay this way forever. Level 5 agents are coming. I don't know when or where, but I have seen them around. I'd be willing to bet you'll find a PVE use for a dread in that situation. Until then, if you do decide to play EVE, enjoy your stay, and please, don't smacktalk in local.
THATS what i wanted to know....... if there was a POSSIBILITY for these ships to have real player verus NPC COMBAT purposes in the future
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Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:42:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
I hope this helps.
OK, this guy puts it better than me. :D.
Thanks. I think we sometimes get so jaded by the whiners we often get on the forums calling for nerfs we forget that every once in a while there comes along a new guy who just don't get it yet. It's easy to jump down his throat but if you try and forget everything you know about Eve for a moment and consider he may be trying to understand it as WoW in space you can understand his confusion.
When I joined I was lucky enough to have a native guide so to speak. Before I even logged in I had the low down on suicide ganks and gate camps so none of it ever came as an unlpeasant suprise after I'd parted with my cash.
I really enjoyed your tanking guide in EON2, very informative. I have been polishing up my armour tank ever since. 
>> RECRUITING << |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.14 03:52:00 -
[60]
Originally by: ChinLee
THATS what i wanted to know....... if there was a POSSIBILITY for these ships to have real player verus NPC COMBAT purposes in the future
I think your problem is the "in the future" part. You should just assume that once things are in-game, that they will not change in any major way. It's a general rule that works most of the time. They aren't going to change capital ships to be more profitable to fly for mission-runners because that's not their role. Ships all fill a specific role. Dreads are for taking out BS and POS, carriers/motherships are for logistical support (healing) and heavy fighter support fire and motherships/titans are specifically for inter-alliance warfare staging. Of all of these, the carrier has the most potential for pve that I can see with the dread coming close second as a tank. However, they are expensive, slow, unwieldy (as mentioned before) and it will probably slow down mission running to use a dread compared to using a battleship.
I find it's a good idea to try to work out how to use a ship to the best of its ability and also use a ship which I think is best for the job I'm doing. What's not a good idea is wasting time posting on a forum about how you want a ship changed so it'll be better for what you use it for. If it's the best there is to use, good. If it's not, you're using the wrong thing. Should I complain that my Moa doesn't get a bonus to mining lasers just because I use it for mining? No, I should go get a ship that's better suited for the job, the Osprey. It's a case fo using the right tool for the right job.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Hesed
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Posted - 2006.03.14 04:16:00 -
[61]
It's all pixels guys. You can't get an upgrade on player opponents or allies.
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Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.03.14 04:17:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Nyphur
...Hope you've got a subscription, EON3 is sounding good and the article in the insider's guide is a nice guide on Electronic Warfare that was really informative to me (I'm the editor of the insider's guides now :D). There are a few tricks in there I hadn't considered. I'm not telling, though, you'll have to buy it :D.
I just got a mortgage and I'm tightening down on the finances until I have it under control. At the moment it's a case of EON3 or Eve for the month or beer. The fact there is the low down in Electronic Warfare (the great equaliser and one of my favorite combat roles) makes the choice all the more painful.
Maybe a whip round with my local Corpies. Sol?, Caraz?.... guys?..... 
>> RECRUITING << |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.14 04:22:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
I just got a mortgage and I'm tightening down on the finances until I have it under control. At the moment it's a case of EON3 or Eve for the month or beer. The fact there is the low down in Electronic Warfare (the great equaliser and one of my favorite combat roles) makes the choice all the more painful.
Maybe a whip round with my local Corpies. Sol?, Caraz?.... guys?.....
Hope you got a friend who can lend you a copy, then ;). There'll be a few supplementary articles posted on eve-tanking.com by the writer and possibly some forum threads, from what I remember being told. But it really is a good read. I got my subscription with issue 1 so I can't wait for 3 to arrive. According to the sticky, it's almost off to the printers.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
gfldex
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Posted - 2006.03.14 07:09:00 -
[64]
Originally by: ChinLee
Gotcha, thats basically all I was asking, was hoping the devs of this game put some thought/consideration for the differnt player types of eve
They do. Read here.
--
$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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Karol Kei
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Posted - 2006.03.14 08:13:00 -
[65]
This thread in summary:
"Hey Wall, meet Clue. Clue, Wall."
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.03.14 08:57:00 -
[66]
I was just looking at the ships, and I noticed a bunch that would have no use in PvP.
Is Eve just a PvE game?
Is there nothing for a PvP'er to do?
If I don't PvE, is there any point in me playing Eve?
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Niiro Hanzo
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Posted - 2006.03.14 09:03:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Avon
I was just looking at the ships, and I noticed a bunch that would have no use in PvP.
Is Eve just a PvE game?
Is there nothing for a PvP'er to do?
If I don't PvE, is there any point in me playing Eve?
Haha, right on! I think the op just wants WoW in space. EVE is not a game for everyone. No mmo is. And since EVE is growing really fast CCP has found the right concept of what the game should be about.
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2006.03.14 09:06:00 -
[68]
Moros dreadnought could be the ultimate PvE ship, you know for those missions where the whole pocket aggros you.. I am talking of "In the Midst of Deadspace" mission. No BS can stand the DPS from them all, but Moros could..
And don't forget lvl5 missions which are coming in Kali. Droadnought would be very useful there..
I as PvEer am saving for moros so unless CCP nerfes it to be as useless as other dreads by the time I train GalBS5 I think I will buy it for this very purpose... oh well now flame away :)
ChinLee yes thay are "not intended" for PvE but now it looks very feasable. But watch that nerfbat...
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Cantari
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Posted - 2006.03.14 09:24:00 -
[69]
I think some of the best game play I have found in EvE is actually PvP.
The PvE (NPC hunting, agent running etc) is great and can make you nice isk but the real meat of the game is found out in the universe with other players.
There is just something about forming up a fleet to go mine ore for the next big corp venture, or jumping into your nice shiny battlecruiser to escort your latest purchase through an unsecure system(or ganking some unsuspecting enemy ships  ).
The answer to you question:
A lot of EvE is dedicated to PvP, it is a multiplayer game and focuses very much on team orientated actions. That being said there is plenty of scope to play EvE from a PvE perspective.
Theoretically you can use capital ships...mainly carriers for PvE activities, but this would have to be done in low sec space, which is highly risky and would most likely end up in a PvP encounter
EvE isnt as black and white as most other MMO's on the market. I feel PvP and PvE are both intertwined a lot in EvE, mainly as you cant really get any where significant with out playing in a team of other human players.
Cantari
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ildra
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Posted - 2006.03.14 09:33:00 -
[70]
hihi, this thread is amusing, i wonder whos head gets most red and pops first.
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Dread Phantom
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Posted - 2006.03.14 09:58:00 -
[71]
This thread gave me a headache :(
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.03.14 10:35:00 -
[72]
wow.
its amazing how vastly different paradigms can clash.
I usually go through post by post rambling and dissecting... but this thread is quite interesting as it stands.
I am sure Shikar( gotta love the tachikoma's) and others are truly distressed or whatever at the misunderstanding (I've gotten into similar ... erm, debates myself) but I think this is totally a complete... misunderstanding. people on totally different books, let alone being on the same page.
troll or not(issue being of intent...) it actually is an issue that probably is real, for many people.
for those who are heavy PvP'ers, or have simply been... naturalized into the EVE-style gameview, a ship has a function, this function exists in a vacum (har har, space, vacum, get it?... yeah it sucks,erm... dammit I'm too tired to keep this up)
the function exists in and of itself. you have goals. those are immediate, short term, long term, whatever, peacable, or combative, ect... and each goal has its scale and such. some things truly demand the cargo-hauling capacity of a freighter.
I've heard some people say that carriers and dreads can be used to run level 4 missions, (but it be overkill in most cases...) but "we" don't define it into PvP/PvE, because that distinction is essentially irrelevant. it changes how you fit the ship, but the ships and foundations don't change. if your fighting against x enemys of y size that will do damage Q, you fit for that. it doesn't change the ship's function.
not to mention I don't think the OP has/had any fathoming of truly how long it'd take to get even the skills, let alone the wealth, to privately have such a ship... and how the game will change between now and then. (hell I am at over 8m SP (took a long break...) and I've accepted that it'll be a very very long time... (honestly, if ever) until I could get in a Thanatos or Nyx(I like drones....) hell I am for a while gonna be pretty content with my dominix and ishkur as primary ships! I don't expect to get a Ishtar til they start implementing the rennovations on Tech 2.
IMO, its a predicament like people who are scarred against PvP from negative experiences in games that weren't designed with PvP in the forefront. where the games functions and general ... everything. was set for PvE progression like a single player game that happened to be going on with lots of other people around, then a switch turned that allowed people to kill eachother! of course that'd be horrible!
but how do you get those people distracted from their emotionally scarred past, enough to realize that even without proactively participating in it, the mere RISK of the PvP encounter like that... can add SO much to the game.
how does one help people in such a mindset as described here, see how much deeper things can be?
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.14 10:45:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 14/03/2006 02:20:25
Originally by: ChinLee
The definiton of VERUS relates to against.. so again runnign a star base could never be pve because the STARBASE isnt attacking you.
If you dont understand what I mean by the term "Do not compare the "reward" of flying a BS to flying a capital ship." Then theres no further need for you to reply. Thnx
Read... my goddamned... post... before... you... reply...
Just above your post is a post explaining what you're talking about.
Your car analogy is ignorant, because its completely wrong. A dreadnought isn't a ferrari, its a bulldozer. Completely useless on the road, only useful for a specific task.
Are you saying there should be bulldozer roads, specifically for bulldozers, so that people with bulldozers can drive them like a car?
/me bows before the might of a Dark Shikari post.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.14 10:57:00 -
[74]
The mind set is "I want a really big ship, cause bigger is better, but it's not better at PvE, CCP make big ships better at PvE."
But if it's not better at PvE, and you want to PvE, WHY for heavens sake would you want a bigger ship? Just cause it's bigger?
Use the ship that's best for what you want to do, not the biggest and then complain it's not the best.
And besides by the time you're in a capital ship, I'll be a jovian and wtfpwn you with my tiny jovian cruiser.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Prestis
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Posted - 2006.03.14 11:12:00 -
[75]
Well level 5 mission agents already exist. Their missions being filled with Dreads and Carriers seems the only logical step up, if they ever get round to implementing them.
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Telemicus Thrace
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Posted - 2006.03.14 11:17:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Kel Shek
...where the games functions and general ... everything. was set for PvE progression like a single player game that happened to be going on with lots of other people around, then a switch turned that allowed people to kill eachother! of course that'd be horrible!
but how do you get those people distracted from their emotionally scarred past, enough to realize that even without proactively participating in it, the mere RISK of the PvP encounter like that... can add SO much to the game.
how does one help people in such a mindset as described here, see how much deeper things can be?
Nice post and I think you make a very good point. As for your last bit I'm not sure how you can explain that to someone. I think it has to be learned through experience. As long as you keep your clone up to date, insure your ship and don't fly anything you can't afford to lose PvP in Eve is not as scary as I think some people think. If you come from a game like WoW where there is no real death penalty I can understand why Eve may seem a bit too harsh but the truth is it works well and ain't that bad.
I must admit I didn't fully get it at first but I listened to the stuff on the forums and I dove in. Now the biggest issue I have with Eve is that it has almost totally ruined every other game for me. I just can't get into anything else. I try but especially single player stuff feels shallow and empty. Saved me a bundle of cash though, my gaming habit only costs $14 a month now.
I've been here nearly 10 months and aside from just not being near the skill tree for a capital ship I really don't have any use for one. One day maybe I will and I'll get one but at the moment it's just not an issue for me. I am keen to get my hands on a Tier 3 BS though.
>> RECRUITING << |
Alyth
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Posted - 2006.03.14 11:19:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Alyth on 14/03/2006 11:20:39
OK reasons why captial ships are bad for PvE:
Dreadnoughts:
They cost 2 billion isk.
They require a buddy with a cynosural field genorator in the same system to get anywhere.
They can't enter space with a security rating of 0.3 or higher.
Getting somewhere costs you several hundred thousand isk in fuel.
The ammo costs you another few hundred thousand.
As does the fuel for siege mode.
Besides the Moros, they cant anything hit besides static battleships due to the exceptionally poor tracking and high signal resolution of their guns. Granted when they do it it's gonna hurt but those hits will be few and far between.
In short they are a huge investment for little or no retun. The only one thats even remotely feasible for anything outside PvP is the Moros and the Dominix does the dame job faster and cheaper.
Carriers and mothersips:
Carriers when fully fitted cost approx 1.8 bill, Motherships approach 2.5 bill afaik.
They have much higher skill requirements.
The also have the same travel constraints and costs.
Their fighters can cost anything from 18 - 24 million. And you need between 5 and 15 of them. They have the hitpoints of your average battleship with a few skills, but due to them having no tank they die much quicker. They also have a hard time with small targets and are quite likely to die to the swarms of cruiser and frigate NPCs you encounter in the missions that would make them worthwhile.
And I would highly recommend you DO listen to Dark Shikiri. He knows far more than you about the game, I would consider him one of the most well informed on these boards. Just because you don't like what he's saying doesn't make him wrong.
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Za Po
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Posted - 2006.03.14 12:26:00 -
[78]
The OP is concerned about the lack of high-end PvE content.
This is a valid concern. Right now, there is no very high-end PvE content - at least, not as high-end as high-end PvP content.
High-end PvE content will come, in the form of Level Five missions at the very least.
The OP is a new player. Chances are that it will take him months before hitting the PvE ceiling (high-DED complexes, soloing lvl4 missions). Even then, as things stand now, those tasks aren't exactly easy!
I reckon there's plenty of PvE fun to be had in Eve, and more to come, both solo and in parties; claims that PvErs have no place in this game are entirely unjustified.
--------------------
Do you have a solution to the BM and instas problem? Test it against the bookmark requirements. |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.03.14 12:36:00 -
[79]
Originally by: ChinLee
Hi,
I'm new to this game but i learn quick. I like some levels of pvp but i'm not hardcore into it. This brings me to my question, looking at all the ships/mods in the game I cant help but notice how many ships/mods are strictly for pvping. For my main focus here is on capital ships (combat not haulers) I cant find a single reason why someone whoes not hardcore into Pvping would EVER put the effort (uh immense effort) to building/buying one.
So I was wondering (before buying the game) are the developers here only concerned on rewarding pvpers with such nice toys? or is it that these are relatively new features of the game and pve content will be added to where combat captial ships will be something someone like myself will ever have a need for them.
I hope no childish flamers get on this thread and tell me capital ships arent for "carebears" or whatever, i'm just curious if these great items will never be implemented for pve combat if not no worries I simply will play something else.
I just dont see it fair to award one group of players just nice items/prestige when we all pay the same amount every month.
PvE in Eve is non existant, if you mean "Player vs Enemy". It takes very little skill. It simply takes ISK and skillpoints, and there's no tactics to speak of.
PvE, if you mean "Player vs Environment", does exist. If you find enjoyment in simply making as much money as you possibly can, mining, research, and production are pretty good, although the higher levels of that (the lottery system for tech 2 blueprints) is pretty bad for a new player.
Whichever you choose, you'll have to deal with PvP in some aspects, whether it be getting ganked, getting wardecced, or other similar things.
This is not a real PvEers game, but it does have some PvE elements.
A lot of people will disagree with that, but for me, a PvE game needs something to raid, something that requires a high level of skill and tactics.
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
Usul Faust
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 12:41:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
A lot of people will disagree with that, but for me, a PvE game needs something to raid, something that requires a high level of skill and tactics.
you're not wrong. pve in eve is just grinding.
no skills, just luck.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.14 12:45:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
A lot of people will disagree with that, but for me, a PvE game needs something to raid, something that requires a high level of skill and tactics.
Ehm, we already have that. 10/10 deadspace complexes.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Usul Faust
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 12:47:00 -
[82]
grinding with dreads.
no skills, just luck.
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Jacinto Naysmith
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Posted - 2006.03.14 13:15:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Jacinto Naysmith on 14/03/2006 13:17:56
EVE is a game based completely and totally on PVP, and it is what makes it the only MMO worth playing. I count production as PVP because you're competing against other living thinking opponents much the same as actual combat, just using a different method to do so. Capitol ships are, by design, only useful for PVP because the only reason to play the game is for the PVP. It is why many EVE players have played for years, and why most of us have no intentions of quiting EVE within the foreseeable future. We are not fighting the same unthinking NPCs, we are fighting other living players who think, adapt, and use strategy which makes the game ever changing.
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Lisa Run
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Posted - 2006.03.14 13:27:00 -
[84]
The whole concept of the game is based on pvp in different variations, not only shooting.
Players, who dare something, successfully compete with others or team up to reach goals etc. are rewarded higher than people, who just don't and play single player vs. npc and stuff like that. Freighter, t2 mining barges and such things are tools to compete in the trade and industrial sector with other players, dreads are for alliance competition like killing pos'es.
Imho a good thing that gameplay with and against others and high risks are more rewarding. Makes the game a lot more exiting. You're a carebear ? Then no super weapon for you. Ok, it isn't a super weapon but doesn't matter.
___________________________
! Post under construction ! |
Asestorian
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Posted - 2006.03.14 13:46:00 -
[85]
EVE by design is a PvP game first, and PvE is a second though, which is the complete opposite to other MMOs. This is something you really have to know, because it means that whatever you do, you will never be safe from other players.
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---
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Rells
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Posted - 2006.03.14 13:51:00 -
[86]
Originally by: ChinLee
Hi,
I'm new to this game but i learn quick. I like some levels of pvp but i'm not hardcore into it. This brings me to my question, looking at all the ships/mods in the game I cant help but notice how many ships/mods are strictly for pvping. For my main focus here is on capital ships (combat not haulers) I cant find a single reason why someone whoes not hardcore into Pvping would EVER put the effort (uh immense effort) to building/buying one.
So I was wondering (before buying the game) are the developers here only concerned on rewarding pvpers with such nice toys? or is it that these are relatively new features of the game and pve content will be added to where combat captial ships will be something someone like myself will ever have a need for them.
I hope no childish flamers get on this thread and tell me capital ships arent for "carebears" or whatever, i'm just curious if these great items will never be implemented for pve combat if not no worries I simply will play something else.
I just dont see it fair to award one group of players just nice items/prestige when we all pay the same amount every month.
Eve is a pvp game at its core. That being said I cant think of a single module that is strictly for pvp. Its a game that is what you make of it, not WoW that holds your hand through the levels until suddenly and magically you are uber because your butt has been in the chair long enough.
Eve is an incredibly deep game and its depth is what keeps people.
-- Rells
◄ PvP University: Isnt it about time you learned to fight back?
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ildra
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 13:53:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Alyth
Edited by: Alyth on 14/03/2006 11:20:39
Carriers and mothersips:
Carriers when fully fitted cost approx 1.8 bill, Motherships approach 2.5 bill afaik.
They have much higher skill requirements.
The also have the same travel constraints and costs.
Their fighters can cost anything from 18 - 24 million. And you need between 5 and 15 of them. They have the hitpoints of your average battleship with a few skills, but due to them having no tank they die much quicker. They also have a hard time with small targets and are quite likely to die to the swarms of cruiser and frigate NPCs you encounter in the missions that would make them worthwhile.
And I would highly recommend you DO listen to Dark Shikiri. He knows far more than you about the game, I would consider him one of the most well informed on these boards. Just because you don't like what he's saying doesn't make him wrong.
*cough* motherships costs 15bn in pure minerals and retail price is around 26-30bn
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Naleb Cilani
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Posted - 2006.03.14 14:01:00 -
[88]
Even if there were missions that required captial-class ships, he'd probably lose it and come whining onto the forums.
It's a lose/lose situation.
Quote:
if the repeatedly stated (not by players mind you) rules of the game don't agree with your "vision" of what this game ought to be... get lost.
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Rells
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:25:00 -
[89]
Originally by: ildra
Originally by: Alyth
Edited by: Alyth on 14/03/2006 11:20:39
Carriers and mothersips:
Carriers when fully fitted cost approx 1.8 bill, Motherships approach 2.5 bill afaik.
They have much higher skill requirements.
The also have the same travel constraints and costs.
Their fighters can cost anything from 18 - 24 million. And you need between 5 and 15 of them. They have the hitpoints of your average battleship with a few skills, but due to them having no tank they die much quicker. They also have a hard time with small targets and are quite likely to die to the swarms of cruiser and frigate NPCs you encounter in the missions that would make them worthwhile.
And I would highly recommend you DO listen to Dark Shikiri. He knows far more than you about the game, I would consider him one of the most well informed on these boards. Just because you don't like what he's saying doesn't make him wrong.
*cough* motherships costs 15bn in pure minerals and retail price is around 26-30bn
and you can probably kill them with 100 frigs at 100 million. Now that is a battle Id like to see.
-- Rells
◄ PvP University: Isnt it about time you learned to fight back?
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Xiao Fang
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:31:00 -
[90]
Why can't CCP make Warp Scramblers needed against NPCs???? It's unfair! The PvPers get to use them but the PvErs don't! And while we're on the subject, why are Covert Ops only useful for PvP? And Interdictors I mean wtf???? I want a mission where I need to anchor Medium Warp Disruptor Bubbles, it's stupid to restrict those to PvP only!
For the dense
I would be happier if people with the above mindset would stay out of Eve. Go back to farming raid bosses or whatever you were doing.
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Xs 142
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Posted - 2006.03.14 14:39:00 -
[91]
This game focuses on PvE to the same extent as Counter-Strike does..
More or less
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Gariuys
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:41:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Xs 142
This game focuses on PvE to the same extent as Counter-Strike does..
More or less
And that's false as well, don't counter bull arguments with equally bull arguments in the opposite direction, it's pointless and noone will take you serious.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Xs 142
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:43:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Xs 142
This game focuses on PvE to the same extent as Counter-Strike does..
More or less
And that's false as well, don't counter bull arguments with equally bull arguments in the opposite direction, it's pointless and noone will take you serious.
Prove me wrong
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Ahop Yol
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Posted - 2006.03.14 14:43:00 -
[94]
Imagine you are a carebear miner/builder that's not interested in combat ships / modules. Every new item that is brough into the game is a potential product to build and sell. Think of it this way, producers start small by producing modules and frigs, then they work up to cruisers and then they are selling battleships.... so what comes next? what is even bigger that's hard to build that I can build that I can sell for lots of iskies?
Ladies and gents, I give you capital ships...
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Gariuys
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:49:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Xs 142
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Xs 142
This game focuses on PvE to the same extent as Counter-Strike does..
More or less
And that's false as well, don't counter bull arguments with equally bull arguments in the opposite direction, it's pointless and noone will take you serious.
Prove me wrong
agent missions
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Rells
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:53:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Xs 142
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Xs 142
This game focuses on PvE to the same extent as Counter-Strike does..
More or less
And that's false as well, don't counter bull arguments with equally bull arguments in the opposite direction, it's pointless and noone will take you serious.
Prove me wrong
agent missions
Gariuys, another final blow for you.
-- Rells
◄ PvP University: Isnt it about time you learned to fight back?
|
Asane
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 14:59:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Asane on 14/03/2006 15:00:07
Originally by: Gariuys
agent missions
Here have a slap in your face.
Originally by: Rells
Gariuys, another final blow for you.
And you should learn to keep quiet until the battle is over.
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Xs 142
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 15:05:00 -
[98]
Asane kinda said it all
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Alyth
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 15:12:00 -
[99]
Originally by: ildra
Originally by: Alyth
Edited by: Alyth on 14/03/2006 11:20:39
Carriers and mothersips:
Carriers when fully fitted cost approx 1.8 bill, Motherships approach 25 bill afaik.
They have much higher skill requirements.
The also have the same travel constraints and costs.
Their fighters can cost anything from 18 - 24 million. And you need between 5 and 15 of them. They have the hitpoints of your average battleship with a few skills, but due to them having no tank they die much quicker. They also have a hard time with small targets and are quite likely to die to the swarms of cruiser and frigate NPCs you encounter in the missions that would make them worthwhile.
And I would highly recommend you DO listen to Dark Shikiri. He knows far more than you about the game, I would consider him one of the most well informed on these boards. Just because you don't like what he's saying doesn't make him wrong.
*cough* motherships costs 15bn in pure minerals and retail price is around 26-30bn
How the hell did that decimal get there? 
Thanks for that. Even further limits their viability then
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Alyth
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 15:14:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Xs 142
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Xs 142
This game focuses on PvE to the same extent as Counter-Strike does..
More or less
And that's false as well, don't counter bull arguments with equally bull arguments in the opposite direction, it's pointless and noone will take you serious.
Prove me wrong
7/10+ complexes that require PvE teamwork and 10/10 which require PvE fleet jobs.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.14 15:18:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Asane
Edited by: Asane on 14/03/2006 15:00:07
Originally by: Gariuys
agent missions
Here have a slap in your face.
Originally by: Rells
Gariuys, another final blow for you.
And you should learn to keep quiet until the battle is over.
Forum PvP FTW. Although going by your definition of PvE ( CS bots lol ) this is more PvE. And nope you ain't the P.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Sebastien LeReparteur
|
Posted - 2006.03.14 15:29:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Are you saying there should be bulldozer roads, specifically for bulldozers, so that people with bulldozers can drive them like a car?
Bulldozer road! Woot woot!!!
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