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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
524
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 13:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM
I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever. Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game.
So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting. |

Niclas Solo
Caldari High Prime The Marmite Collective
26
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 13:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:After having my Wei Todaki item stolen from me in the COSMOS mission chain which rewards a cumulative 1.6 billion isk in item F*** me, I need to run mission chains.
Yes please we need more mission runners. Use that mobil tractor beam, then you earn even more money. |

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 15:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
That'll just drive the price down. |

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 15:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Malcanis wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM
I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever. Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game. So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting. Actually it's perfect game design within this very game. Why do you disagree? |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1811
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 15:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Malcanis wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM
I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever. Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game. So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting. Actually it's perfect game design within this very game. Why do you disagree?
It is a terrible game mechanic, once again benefiting the sociopaths. This is the kind of thing that attracts the lowest kind of human to Eve. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4102
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 15:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
It is a terrible game mechanic, once again benefiting the sociopaths. This is the kind of thing that attracts the lowest kind of human to Eve.
The little problem with this sentence is it displays your tendency to assign a hierarchy to human beings. The big problem with this sentence is it demonstrates that you think you have a high place in that hierarchy when in fact you don't. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4102
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 15:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Carnaby Wakefield wrote: I hear CCP send a guy round to a mission runners house to kick im square inna nuts unless he runs solo at all times.
Constructive, I can see why your on the CSM 
Best CSM ever. would vote for again.[/quote]
Amen. He said he's not running again, but I feel we need to start a petition to draft him into the next CSM. We can call it the "Malcanis for CSM whether he likes it or not" campaign.
|

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 15:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Malcanis wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM
I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever. Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game. So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting. Actually it's perfect game design within this very game. Why do you disagree? It is a terrible game mechanic, once again benefiting the sociopaths. This is the kind of thing that attracts the lowest kind of human to Eve. Awww don't be so silly, that doesn't make you look very attractive. ;)
Question, honey:
Who would you rather consider being a sociopath:
a) Those who play bad guys in a game that's built around being the bad guys and explicitly allows it. They take the game light hearted and care mostly about player interaction.
b) Those who whine, rage, insult you and wish you death threats over stolen space pixels. They build self confidence out of shooting NPCs who are no actual threat and display this behaviour when a player kicks them off their fake throne.
Your response will tell a lot about you. |

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 15:49:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
It is a terrible game mechanic, once again benefiting the sociopaths. This is the kind of thing that attracts the lowest kind of human to Eve.
The little problem with this sentence is it displays your tendency to assign a hierarchy to human beings. The big problem with this sentence is it demonstrates that you think you have a high place in that hierarchy when in fact you don't. Hello there....... maybe we could sometimes ... you know .... move aside... ? ;) |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
524
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 15:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Actually it's perfect game design within this very game.
My point precisely, where perfect means typical. |

Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
524
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 15:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote: a) Those who play bad guys in a game that's built around being the bad guys and explicitly allows it. They take the game light hearted and care mostly about player interaction.
In my experience the opposite is true. The only time I see smack in local is when some pirate wannabe gets his arse handed to him. Otherwise, this "light-heartedness" of which you speak is actually symptomatic of the sociopathy itself. I mean being a **** is funny to some people, isn't it. |

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 15:59:00 -
[42] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:Actually it's perfect game design within this very game. My point precisely, where perfect means typical. In this game absolutely... and necessary. :) |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18693
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 16:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:It is a terrible game mechanic, once again benefiting the sociopaths How does it in any way benefit sociopaths? Also, since you're using a definite article, which sociopaths are you talking about?
Quote:This is the kind of thing that attracts the lowest kind of human to Eve. What's this GÇ£low kindGÇ¥ of human, anyway?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 16:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote: a) Those who play bad guys in a game that's built around being the bad guys and explicitly allows it. They take the game light hearted and care mostly about player interaction.
In my experience the opposite is true. The only time I see smack in local is when some pirate wannabe gets his arse handed to him. Otherwise, this "light-heartedness" of which you speak is actually symptomatic of the sociopathy itself. I mean being a **** is funny to some people, isn't it. We have both types. There are always low lifes who take internet spaceship seriousness to a level that's beyond mental health. I, for one, have met far more mission runners/carebears in general who behave in a questionable way than the other way round, but I do avoid the type if i can. Or exploit their weakness. *pushes up bra* |

Lipbite
Express Hauler
1704
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 16:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Welcome to EVE, cheaply designed game with 16mil/year research and "development" budget! |

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 16:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Welcome to EVE, cheaply designed game with 16mil/year research and "development" budget! Nobody forces you to play it... :) |

Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
149
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 17:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Malcanis wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM
I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever. Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game. So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting.
Yea, these CSMs are such a joke. As if I'm the only one who doesn't know about these imbalanced mechanics.
As with most everything that is wrong with this game, It is not a problem until more people start doing it. So get out there and get your grief on, all you yahoos who get overly excited with the concept of ******* with people who can't fight back. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
|

Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
119
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 17:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Stealing or threatening to blow up required mission items is a safe and easy way to earn income as a pirate. Stealing and threatening to blow things up has always been a safe and easy way to earn income as a pirate.
Nerf Burger wrote:Remember what happened to miner ganking? No. Please regale us with these takes of yore. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13437
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 17:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Malcanis wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM
I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever. Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game. So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting.
No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle.
What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.
1 Kings 12:11
|

Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
149
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Malcanis wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM
I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever. Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game. So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting. No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle. What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.
why don't you try explaining why it should stay instead of making baseless claims.
What does allowing people to **** with you in high sec missions, with zero risk and zero cost, bring to the game? Where the only defense is hitting d-scan every second and praying you don't get warp scrambled for too long. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
|

Pipa Porto
1474
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:why don't you try explaining why it should stay instead of making baseless claims.
Because "fixing" the "problem" would necessarily involve Malcanis wrote:treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.
Also, of course, it's not actually a problem. Anything outside your personal hangars in EVE can be taken from you at any time by anyone. That's how EVE works and has always worked. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |

Felsusguy
Aliastra Gallente Federation
302
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Malcanis wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Malcanis wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM
I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever. Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game. So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting. No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle. What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE. why don't you try explaining why it should stay instead of making baseless claims. What does allowing people to **** with you in high sec missions, with zero risk and zero cost, bring to the game? Where the only defense is hitting d-scan every second and praying you don't get warp scrambled for too long. Everything is permitted in EVE Online, short of exploitation or abusive harassment. Maybe it is too easy to pull off, maybe it isn't, or maybe it should have more consequences, but that doesn't mean that it should be disallowed, or that you should be compensated when it occurs. How droll. |

Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
119
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:What does allowing people to screw with you in high sec missions, with zero risk and zero cost, bring to the game? An incredible sense of risk and the potential for catastrophic loss, just as it is with every other aspect of this wonderful game, which doesn't pander to people who want the warm blanket of safety wrapped around them at all times.
This is what EVE is. Either accept it, or go elsewhere. Seriously. |

Pontianak Sythaeryn
Bottle Distribution Ops Center Heimatar Alliance Treaty Organization
115
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:14:00 -
[54] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle.
What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.
So... if the pirate can pretty much screw over the mission runner without any risk, why is the reward in ransoming and tears so great? I only see risk for the mission runner. Doesn't the scenarios laid above conflict with the greater risk, greater reward thing CCP likes? I mean, from my point of view the pirate gets to have a grand ol time with pretty much very little risk, and the mission runner gets kinda hosed for a LOT of risk.
With that said, I've not done any of the cosmos missions, so maybe there is something I'm just missing. |

Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1085
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote: Don't worry high sec mission runners, there is a solution to combat this. All you have to do is hit D-scan every second you are doing the mission and be ready to warp out the moment you see combat probes, even if you have to abandon your drones to do so.
If you abandon your drones they'll still scan out the mission. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |

Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
149
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:23:00 -
[56] - Quote
Logical 101 wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:What does allowing people to screw with you in high sec missions, with zero risk and zero cost, bring to the game? An incredible sense of risk and the potential for catastrophic loss, just as it is with every other aspect of this wonderful game, which doesn't pander to people who want the warm blanket of safety wrapped around them at all times. This is what EVE is. Either accept it, or go elsewhere. Seriously.
What do you think low and null are for, genius? "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
|

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4102
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:24:00 -
[57] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:Malcanis wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Malcanis wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM
I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever. Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game. So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting. No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle. What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE. why don't you try explaining why it should stay instead of making baseless claims. What does allowing people to screw with you in high sec missions, with zero risk and zero cost, bring to the game? Where the only defense against it is hitting d-scan every second and hoping you don't get warp scrambled by npcs for too long should you detect combat probes. Additionally, if the sociopath decides to stay in the system trying to scan you untill downtime, you are screwed. It really is disgusting how this game rewards sociopaths and how the community encourages sociopath behavior like this. This game attracts them likes flies and we have to listen to their narrow-minded perspectives disproportionately in every thread because they usually live on these forums as well, having no other social life.
The mnetal image of you smashing keyboard buttons furiously as you try to slam a guy on the internet because you failed to correctly play a video game is hilarious.
EVE is a game of skullduggery. If you want to be safe and left alone, dock up and/or lig out.
|

Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
224
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Maybe I'm missing something here (I've no idea what this mission is) but if the drop is that valuable why not have a corp mate ready to scoop it up or use an alt on a second account to grab it fast?
What's a "Wei Todaki" anyway, sounds like something you urinate in  |

Carnaby Wakefield
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
Pontianak Sythaeryn wrote:Malcanis wrote:No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle.
What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE. So... if the pirate can pretty much screw over the mission runner without any risk, why is the reward in ransoming and tears so great? I only see risk for the mission runner. Doesn't the scenarios laid above conflict with the greater risk, greater reward thing CCP likes? I mean, from my point of view the pirate gets to have a grand ol time with pretty much very little risk, and the mission runner gets kinda hosed for a LOT of risk. With that said, I've not done any of the cosmos missions, so maybe there is something I'm just missing.
No your pretty much right, the mission in question spawns in a static system and is 5 deadspace rooms, considered to be the hardest of all Cosmos missions npc wise.
All the pirate needs to do is shadow the mission runner until he hits the last room and everything aggro's onto the mission runner and then the pirate just jumps in and either kills the named npc or loots the npc's wreck while the mission runner is been attacked by a host of npc's.
The mission in question semi-completes when the spawn is killed so you can't even respawn the mission again and your locked out of the chain and the mission runner takes a substantial negative standings hit.
While robbing misson drops and salvaging mission wrecks is all fine and dandy stealing specific mission loot to prevent people completing the mission smacks of griefing. |

Nerf Burger
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
149
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 18:28:00 -
[60] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Nerf Burger wrote:why don't you try explaining why it should stay instead of making baseless claims. Because "fixing" the "problem" would necessarily involve Malcanis wrote:treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE. .
No, it wouldn't because pirates could still steal mission loot.
Next stupid and fail argument. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
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