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Sigras
Conglomo
639
   |
Posted - 2014.01.04 22:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
PvP doesn't specifically mean 1v1.
This is a game that prizes freedom and choice over everything else.
You want a fight club where players duel 1v1 to see who is the best? You start one... Pssst it's Garmon
You want a place where the game forces fair fights? The WoW arenas are calling your name.
You want a game where winning a battle actually means something more than just a gold star and numbers on a leader board? This is the game for you, but don't expect the game to force the fights to be fair... Those two concepts are mutually exclusive. |
Loki Feiht
Feiht Family Clan
160
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 23:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Implement more 'NPC life'.
Create missions based on killing / defending said life.
More creative use of suspect / limited aggression flags.
Contractable killrights.
To the OP you will have to learn to use guerilla tactics (among others) to seperate players from their gangs, Eve is full of people who feel their way is the only way and solo PvP is definatly the more challenging. (I don't mean 'solo' in your homesystem with ganglinks, reps and a counter for everything you might possibly come across).
More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content-áthread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858 |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
White Mountain Coalition
883
|
Posted - 2014.01.04 23:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Egravant Alduin wrote: I have said it and I will say it once more.I went to try factional warfare since I was told only in factional warfare I can find good PVP (player vs player and not players vs player) combats.Well at first 3 fights I was excited since I had great one vs one battles even if i lost.After that ,20 combats followed and all were ganging ganging and more ganging.
So in my 20 fights only 3 were one vs one we are talking for a pathetic 10-15%.
Why not gates in factional warfare don t let one ship from each faction to pass only once so they could fight each other?This would make 1 vs 1 real PVP possible.
Why not systems that would allow certain numbers of ships can t be created?
Compared to lineage 2 or other MMOs this is the worst PVP game I have ever tried end really regretting paying for it in first months.
It s current PVP system only allows ganging and nothing more.
Your doing it wrong, there's no revolving door of solo pvp battles out there, you choose your fights, sometimes that might mean waiting for the gangs to fly on by.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
Kiki's Delivery Service.
82
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 00:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
I'd like to take a moment to say that this topic is rather abstract and broad, and doesn't really have a sense of direction beyond, "make it better" and general gaming philosophy. |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 01:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Felsusguy wrote:What is this? "The PVP isn't good because there's not enough solo". Seriously?
I think it's more of an:
PvP isn't good if you get blobbed.
Oh, and he is totally right --> getting blobbed isn't exactly good PvP. Not that I say it's wrong that this happens in EvE. |
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
171
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 03:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
I have played DaoC, WoW, WAR, Guild Wars and many other pvp MMO's and other games. Even if they had 1v1 or Instances with 16 vs 16 and such, you will never find "fair" pvp in one of these games. A 1v1 can be as unfair as a 3v1, depending on level, equipment (time spent to the game) or class your opponent has.
For example, if i see you in a Enyo assault frigate (mostly blaster fitted and so restricted to short range), i can reship to a Hookbill. It has 5 Medslots, enough for 1-2 Tracking Disruptors with Range scripts, Scram and Web. The fight, eve if it's a 1v1, will not be a fair fight, it will be an execution of the Enyo.
Eve doesn't make a claim to to be a 1v1 game, it's not balanced for that. It's balanced for Fleet compositions. And it works pretty god there in most cases. |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 03:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Rovinia wrote:you will never find "fair" pvp in one of these games.
.
This is simply not true. If you haven't had such PvP yet, you simply have not played enough PvP. OR you played too much EvE where this is practically impossible :) |
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
171
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 03:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
Than show me one. I had fun 1v1 in all of these games, but all of these where very rare. Really balanced where allways only the group fights. |
Fourteen Maken
State Protectorate
Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 06:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
Egravant Alduin wrote: I have said it and I will say it once more.I went to try factional warfare since I was told only in factional warfare I can find good PVP (player vs player and not players vs player) combats.Well at first 3 fights I was excited since I had great one vs one battles even if i lost.After that ,20 combats followed and all were ganging ganging and more ganging.
So in my 20 fights only 3 were one vs one we are talking for a pathetic 10-15%.
Why not gates in factional warfare don t let one ship from each faction to pass only once so they could fight each other?This would make 1 vs 1 real PVP possible.
Why not systems that would allow certain numbers of ships can t be created?
Compared to lineage 2 or other MMOs this is the worst PVP game I have ever tried end really regretting paying for it in first months.
It s current PVP system only allows ganging and nothing more.
Most of the marketing I see shows fleet fights, actually I don't think I've ever seen an add with solo pvp. Having said that I wish there was more solo pvp because fleets last for hours and even in gangs its hard to get balanced fights. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
RAZOR Alliance
271
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 07:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
Fourteen Maken wrote:Egravant Alduin wrote: I have said it and I will say it once more.I went to try factional warfare since I was told only in factional warfare I can find good PVP (player vs player and not players vs player) combats.Well at first 3 fights I was excited since I had great one vs one battles even if i lost.After that ,20 combats followed and all were ganging ganging and more ganging.
So in my 20 fights only 3 were one vs one we are talking for a pathetic 10-15%.
Why not gates in factional warfare don t let one ship from each faction to pass only once so they could fight each other?This would make 1 vs 1 real PVP possible.
Why not systems that would allow certain numbers of ships can t be created?
Compared to lineage 2 or other MMOs this is the worst PVP game I have ever tried end really regretting paying for it in first months.
It s current PVP system only allows ganging and nothing more. Most of the marketing I see shows fleet fights, actually I don't think I've ever seen an add with solo pvp. Having said that I wish there was more solo pvp because fleets last for hours and even in gangs its hard to get balanced fights.
If the fight is fair or balanced one side or the other screwed up. |
Egravant Alduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 11:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:Egravant Alduin wrote:Great point and answer but the thing is since you have played other games as you say that other games have 1 vs 1 and group fights.In my one year of eve i have almost never fought 1 vs 1 .A good PVP game is a game that has 1 vs 1 and group fights.Then it can advertise as a good PVP game.
You're stating that assertion as though it were fact when it is actually merely your opinion. A good PVP game is a game that has good PVP, by definition. EVE has, in my opinion, the best PVP of any game I've played and therefore for me (and most people that play EVE PVP) it is a good PVP game. What it isn't is a PVP game that holds your hand by imposing rigorous rules to protect what you would suppose to be fairness. That is really what you're saying, I think. You seem to be saying saying that because it doesn't enforce the PVP rules you would like to have it isn't a good PVP game but you're couching it as though your view of what the rules should be is the same as everyone else's which, just from this thread alone, you can see isn't the case. I do have a suggestion for you, however. Use the dueling system in order to get fair(ish) 1v1 fights in highsec. If you can't find people who'll accept your duels you can join a corporation that specialises in pvp and duel your corp mates to your heart's content. This is a form of adapting. You can get the PVP you're asking for in EVE. You just need to look a little harder and put some effort in. Obviously, if you don't like the idea of putting effort into finding duels EVE probably isn't the game for you. Pretty much everything in EVE requires at least some effort.
I had many duels in eve and all people had healers next to them to heal them.Duels is another big lie of eve pvp . |
Egravant Alduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 11:45:00 -
[42] - Quote
Loki Feiht wrote:Implement more 'NPC life'.
Create missions based on killing / defending said life.
More creative use of suspect / limited aggression flags.
Contractable killrights.
To the OP you will have to learn to use guerilla tactics (among others) to seperate players from their gangs, Eve is full of people who feel their way is the only way and solo PvP is definatly the more challenging. (I don't mean 'solo' in your homesystem with ganglinks, reps and a counter for everything you might possibly come across).
I don t understand what you mean.
|
Egravant Alduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 11:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
I m not talking for fair 1 vs 1 just a 1 vs 1 system.I m talking that I have a 10% only in my whole fights that were really 1 vs 1 even if they were tech 2 ships high skilled players etc and I lost.At least it was 1 vs 1 but still this thing almost doesn t exist in EVE.I have seen it in other games like aion,wow,runes of magic,fallen earth,lineage 2 and many many other games. |
Mag's
the united
SCUM.
16410
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 12:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Basically you were and are wrong in what you expect PvP to be. You may think PvP is all about 1v1, but that is your expectation only.
In fact I would point out that combat is also only a subset of what PvP is. For in Eve, PvP also encompasses the market, mining, industry, missions etc etc.
So this thread is really about you limiting the term PvP. (Player versus Player)
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
70
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 12:34:00 -
[45] - Quote
It could be interesting for players to have a genuine 1 v 1 mechanism though, say if you agree to duel then you both warp to a set of co-ords provided that activates a warp jammer or such once both parties enter. only one can leave unless the other concedes defeat and the winner allows them to leave too. |
David Kir
Endless Winter Night
The Kingdom of Heaven
407
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 12:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Egravant Alduin wrote: I m not talking for fair 1 vs 1 just a 1 vs 1 system.I m talking that I have a 10% only in my whole fights that were really 1 vs 1 even if they were tech 2 ships high skilled players etc and I lost.At least it was 1 vs 1 but still this thing almost doesn t exist in EVE.I have seen it in other games like aion,wow,runes of magic,fallen earth,lineage 2 and many many other games.
10% of your fights?
Your fights?
Were you just taking on anything you could find?
Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die. |
Egravant Alduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 13:01:00 -
[47] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Egravant Alduin wrote: I m not talking for fair 1 vs 1 just a 1 vs 1 system.I m talking that I have a 10% only in my whole fights that were really 1 vs 1 even if they were tech 2 ships high skilled players etc and I lost.At least it was 1 vs 1 but still this thing almost doesn t exist in EVE.I have seen it in other games like aion,wow,runes of magic,fallen earth,lineage 2 and many many other games. 10% of your fights? Your fights? Were you just taking on anything you could find?
Duels factional warfare null sec anything.I couldn t find any 1 vs 1 in my one year of play never. |
Egravant Alduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 13:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:It could be interesting for players to have a genuine 1 v 1 mechanism though, say if you agree to duel then you both warp to a set of co-ords provided that activates a warp jammer or such once both parties enter. only one can leave unless the other concedes defeat and the winner allows them to leave too.
Yup something like that.But no people in here like 10 vs 1 fights since it s the only way they can win. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
Advent of Fate
539
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 15:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Egravant Alduin wrote:David Kir wrote:Egravant Alduin wrote: I m not talking for fair 1 vs 1 just a 1 vs 1 system.I m talking that I have a 10% only in my whole fights that were really 1 vs 1 even if they were tech 2 ships high skilled players etc and I lost.At least it was 1 vs 1 but still this thing almost doesn t exist in EVE.I have seen it in other games like aion,wow,runes of magic,fallen earth,lineage 2 and many many other games. 10% of your fights? Your fights? Were you just taking on anything you could find? Duels factional warfare null sec anything.I couldn t find any 1 vs 1 in my one year of play never.
i haven't looked for 1v1 fights despite my year long pvp fest as i know i am not very good at eve yet. i have several friends that solo pvp though. i have also been in several 1v1 fights against my will when traveling to meet my fleet, leaving fleet early and flying home or while performing scout duties. So solo still exists , people search for it all over and i find it against my will from time to time. small gang fights are more fun though imo as the added complexity makes for good fleet v fleet duals when 2 evenly matched groups engage. those 15 vs 30 fights where the smaller cheaper force prevails are the ones i remember with joy as well as the 100 vs 100 fights where the tackle of both sides fence around the edges of grid trying to pick off other tackle before the end comes and one side needs to run.
sorry rambling a bit but eve has so many forms of pvp and every time you uncover another layer you find more layers underneath.
it really is turtles all the way down.
here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |
Egravant Alduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 15:34:00 -
[50] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:Egravant Alduin wrote:David Kir wrote:Egravant Alduin wrote: I m not talking for fair 1 vs 1 just a 1 vs 1 system.I m talking that I have a 10% only in my whole fights that were really 1 vs 1 even if they were tech 2 ships high skilled players etc and I lost.At least it was 1 vs 1 but still this thing almost doesn t exist in EVE.I have seen it in other games like aion,wow,runes of magic,fallen earth,lineage 2 and many many other games. 10% of your fights? Your fights? Were you just taking on anything you could find? Duels factional warfare null sec anything.I couldn t find any 1 vs 1 in my one year of play never. i haven't looked for 1v1 fights despite my year long pvp fest as i know i am not very good at eve yet. i have several friends that solo pvp though. i have also been in several 1v1 fights against my will when traveling to meet my fleet, leaving fleet early and flying home or while performing scout duties. So solo still exists , people search for it all over and i find it against my will from time to time. small gang fights are more fun though imo as the added complexity makes for good fleet v fleet duals when 2 evenly matched groups engage. those 15 vs 30 fights where the smaller cheaper force prevails are the ones i remember with joy as well as the 100 vs 100 fights where the tackle of both sides fence around the edges of grid trying to pick off other tackle before the end comes and one side needs to run. sorry rambling a bit but eve has so many forms of pvp and every time you uncover another layer you find more layers underneath. it really is turtles all the way down.
Still haven t found any 1 vs 1 in my one year.Always more than 4 ships against one.I don t think a year is not enough for a game to find a 1 vs 1 fight |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1203
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 19:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
If you go to rancer you will get alot of 1v1.
The Tears Must Flow |
Hermit Frog
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 20:48:00 -
[52] - Quote
Egravant Alduin wrote:Danika Princip wrote:ANY system you bring in to try and reward or encourage solo play can and will be abused to hell and back by virtually every EVE player. Just so you know. No it will encourage skilled players to show their potential.Like a fight club or something like that .1 vs 1 .The best holds and wins against many opponents(not at the same time,one vs one)
This is in the game. Just do a duels tournament in your corp. I don't know what you're complaining about. Do you just want to fly into space and have random players come at you one at a time? That's not going to happen. You're going to have to work for it if you want to fight on your terms. If you want casual 1v1 fights, join a corp that likes to duel. |
Lelira Cirim
EVE University
Ivy League
128
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 22:00:00 -
[53] - Quote
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:fair fights? equal grounds? honour? This is EVE. People really need to start doing their research
As the OP indicated, it's a Marketing issue. 
Do not actively tank my patience. |
Nag'o
Cuisinart Inc.
Insidious Empire
54
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 22:47:00 -
[54] - Quote
I agree with the OP that real 1v1 battles in EVE are almost inexistent. I also agree that FW is the right ground for some 1v1 system implementation since a) it's already a system built for staged pvp and b) it has a lot of room for improvements.
Removing combat offgrid boosting is a great step foward. As suggested by the OP there could be some type of complex that only allows 1 ship from each faction at a time. Make it so the complex counter stops as long as there is an opposing ship on the grid so ppl will have trouble exploiting it.
EVE needs some ground for solo players to prove their skills against each other. That is what PVP is on it's core. I don't agree when the OP says EVE is a bad PVP game. I think it one of the best PVP games out there. But it really sucks for solo players.
Brain hackz0r.
Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated.
Downloading reality. |
Basil Pupkin
Why So Platypus
22
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 23:54:00 -
[55] - Quote
Sigh, all PvP EVE has is Skill Point Blob vs Skill Point Blob. Unless some real blunders are committed, blob worth more skill points would always win. EVE has no PvP to offer to newer characters unless you can get enough of them to cover the skill points gap of the blob. |
Gawain Edmond
Angry Mustellid
31
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 00:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
as i'm lazy i did only look at one of your 1v1 losses and your target selection is bad and your fitting is wrong don't go after laser boats in shield ships without any em resistance it'll get you blown up. On top of that if you've got low skills then don't go after people in pvp corps who've been playing the game longer than you and have more experience, it'll probably not go your way. If it makes you feel better everyone sucked at pvp once before they became good even those people who go around taking on 5 people at a time were once bad at it.
Now for some helpful tips;
1) If you find yourself in a fair fight you messed up
2) everyone is hostile and will shoot you
3) blow up their pod, if they're not in system they can't shoot back
4) if someone asks for a 1v1 they have friends coming to help them
5) it's always a trap |
Katia Echerie
Eclipsed Moon Services
28
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 04:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
Egravant Alduin wrote:
Great point and answer but the thing is since you have played other games as you say that other games have 1 vs 1 and group fights.In my one year of eve i have almost never fought 1 vs 1 .A good PVP game is a game that has 1 vs 1 and group fights.Then it can advertise as a good PVP game.
I'm sorry but this is one of the few times where I have to step in. EVE is a great PVP game. In fact I would go as far as saying its THE PVP MMO. Here is the reason:
Everything is player driven. Unlike most other MMOs, pretty much everything you use in game was made by a player. Whats better PVP than that?
Speaking of combat alone I can say with quite a lot of authority that there is in fact a lot of solo and one vs one PVP opportunities, you just need to learn how to find it. That being said I can also say that most people in game do NOT fly alone. The game was not designed around solo ships, that would be very counterintuitive. Just because solo combat is hard does not mean this is not PVP. Solo combat is realistically hard. You can't expect one man to take down an army in RL, and you can't expect the same in EVE.
If you can't accept that a game that offers PVP in every single aspect of the game as a true PVP game then you are being a hypocrite. Yes you will die, and a lot if you are trying to fly solo and win. I can attest to that. However, there is no PVP more rewarding than taking a single ship design which you've perfected to maximize your chances of winning against multiple targets and actually winning outnumbered. I don't think there is any other game that plays like that.
|
Valleria Darkmoon
Heretic Army
Heretic Initiative
192
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 06:09:00 -
[58] - Quote
EVE is a perfect demonstration of why so-called world pvp (ie. out of instanced arenas) in other MMOs doesn't work. Take any other MMO you like and I will use the most obvious. WoW has no world pvp at all, there are pvp servers sure but no one fights on them. What you have are a bunch of max level bored people ganking lowbies and then you have battlegrounds and arenas. Why would anyone risk losing a fight in world pvp when they can roughly know what's coming by being in a structured environment? I mean the penalty for dying in pvp in WoW is soooooooooo steep.
The reason world pvp works in EVE is because there is only world pvp, you either sack up and go for it or you go home. If every gaming community I've ever personally experienced is any indication the only way to get people to participate in world pvp is to offer nothing else. Besides it's exactly the unpredictable and even random nature of EVE pvp that makes it so great. This is the entire reason long and epic stories are spawned from EVE pvp that don't crop up in any other game I'm aware of. RnK vs. AHARM in Clarion Call 3 for example. This kind of overarching narrative playing out in real time with no one knowing when or how it will end are the stories that no in-game back story could ever compete with and I wouldn't trade it for an arena in 1000 years. There is the alliance tournaments but they are more for entertainment value for those of us who are watching and as a special event and should stay that way. Finding solo pvp in game is simply a matter or accepting you will probably be outnumbered and learning to fight it anyway.
If none of this has convinced you so far though, I have skimmed this thread and I haven't heard anyone ask this yet, so if you leave EVE can I have your stuff? |
Valleria Darkmoon
Heretic Army
Heretic Initiative
192
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 06:26:00 -
[59] - Quote
I should add with a minor rant here that if the game did offer an instanced arena it would be completely abhorrent and terrible and people would complain about it constantly. Want to know why?
When you do find people who are willing to true 1v1, half the time both of you show up in overtanked zero dps ships and want to fight on station so that if it's going badly you can de-agress and dock or you end up killing the other guy's frigate after a 20 minute marathon where the threat of running out of ammo was entirely legitimate. If the game did bring in a true solo arena this would be a massive issue. I can fully envision fights where both players fire their entire cargo hold empty and then have a staring competition waiting to see who gets the most bored first and just hit self-destruct to get out of this silly nonsense.
Seriously now, who among you can't see the pages and pages of threads about how bullshit arenas are because you can just over tank if CCP were to ever actually put them in. Be glad CCP put in the voluntary limited engagement timer because that's as close as you'll get to an arena and as far as I'd support even though I make no use of it myself because it's a trap and I'm not setting it. (Nevermind the -10 sec status).
By finding real in-game pvp you avoid this problem because being overtanked in the real game just ensures that YOU can't kill your opponent, he can still call in enough damage to instapop your worthless brick if you can't kill things quickly out there. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
The Volition Cult
635
|
Posted - 2014.01.06 10:03:00 -
[60] - Quote
I think the conclusion to this thread is that there is PVP in all it's variety out there in EVE for those who want to find it and are willing to put in some effort and thought but for those that either can't be bothered to put in the effort or are incapable of doing the thinking it might well appear that there isn't.
The OP and those like him have been given many suggestions on how to solve their problems. His/their unwillingness to even think about them or put any actual effort in and his continued and pointless insistence on CCP implementing a 1v1 hand holding and "fairness" rules enforcing arena merely lend weight to the argument that it's completely pointless trying to help him.
EVE simply isn't the game for people like that. It's a shame that they refuse the help that's offered them but it's pointless to continue to try to help those that cannot be helped.
Sorry OP. Try a different game as you clearly don't understand EVE.
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