The problem with this or other ideas about making DST into dangerous-space haulers is that it's impossible.

Well, not impossible per-se. You could make them completely immune to capture, but that's just stupid. The problem is, there is no way to balance a gate-camp passing ship other then giving it the ability to not get caught. No amount of tank, or warp stabilization, or even bubble immunity will make running a camp viable. Tank can easily be overwhelmed by a gang, stabilization by multiple tacklers/HIC, bubble immunity by a single interceptor. Sure, these things might get you past a lone sabre pilot or a really stupid camp, but strategies that rely on the incompetence of your opponents are never a good idea.

These ideas have all been suggested before, and some of them even tried before. None of them have worked. The rest are completely op.

The only way to make them work is give them very fast align and cloaking. We already have those in the form of blockade runners. These are so effective at their job that they have to be limited to 10k in cargo to maintain balance. I don't think this part needs to change.

The only place for DST to go is into a new role entirely, such as the mini-freighter (say, 100k cargo).

[quote=Felsusguy][quote=Justin Cody]Here's what I think should happen:
1. Blockade runners should, instead of getting a basic tank bonus, get agility, cargo capacity, sig radius reduction, and cloak CPU reduction across the board.

2. Deep space transports should get active and passive resist bonuses along their respective class lines (ex. gallente & min get active tanking, cal and amarr get resists).

3. Deep space transports get bonuses of 10% cargo capacity per level (two 5% bonuses roll into one), respective passive or active tank bonus, and +1 warp strength per level. Bubble immunity might also be a good idea, but make it so they can't fit cyno fields.

Role Bonus: Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device and Covert Cynosural Field Generator.
...

Aside from fixing the bonuses to be actually useful to each ship, I think DSTs and BRs are mostly fine. The fact that BRs are more popular and versatile isn't a problem. If the DST has a rather niche role that's okay.

DST's should get like 70% of the cargobay of a max-cargo itty 5 as a fixed bay (perhaps modified by the ship skill). Then it can actually fit for defense/agility.

DST's should get like 70% of the cargobay of a max-cargo itty 5 as a fixed bay (perhaps modified by the ship skill). Then it can actually fit for defense/agility.

Aside from the fact that they should at least be the size of the largest racial hauler available I agree with you. No cargo size reduction. If nothing else it should be expanded to like 70-90K considering the cost.

I would personally be okay with this, but iirc DST's carrying slightly less than max itty-5 is how it currently is, and that's with the DST being fully cargo fitted. I think giving it what i described would still be a rather large buff.

The main thing is that DST's shouldn't have to give up like 80% of their potential cargo just to be tanky (or fit for agility/wcs), which is kinda how it is now. Right now a fully-tanked DST is kind of pointless, you're better off with a faster and safer cargo-fit BR.

Placing DSTs somewhere in-between orcas and the itty 5 would be nice, although I think anything more than 50k m3 is a bit much.

crazy proposition:

-as someone stated, keep blockade runners as the stealthy and agile cloaked hauler, give it more agility bonuses or make them inmune to bubbles

-leave the tanking bonuses to the DSTs and adjust them to the current racial tanking doctrines (minmatar activer shield, caldari passive shield, gallente active armor, amarr buffer armor)

-change the +2 warp strength for something more ambitious, add an experimental jump drive. the DST would be the bulkier version which uses a jump device in order to avoid gatecamps....while the blockade runner can just get away undercovered, the jumpdrive used by the DSTs would be similar to those of black ops...

Personally one of the more interesting ideas.

The problem is that the "hauler" hulls are vastly less numerous (not counting the specialized T1s of the former Itty line), than the pew pew ships.

Basically haulers are:
T1 industrial: basic hauler
T1 Freighter: honking ass version of above
Orca: Can be tanker than a Freighter and can haul fitted ships, but is slow (ignoring mining bonuses since we're talking hauler use)
T2 Blockade Runner: About the same as a small T1 Industrial, but with fast aligns and a cloak
T2 Deep Space Transport: big, slow, and not so tanky
T2 Jump Freighter: not as big as a Freighter but has Jump engines

Honestly, I'd love to see the Deep Space Transports become something somewhere between a JF and an Orca (in terms of hauling).

Smaller hauling capacity than a JF, but with a jump drive and the ability to haul fitted ships (up to 1-2 BSes).

Useful in High-Sec for transporting/moving pre-fitted ships in bulk where Carriers can't go, Jump Drive for low/null, or can fly through gates like a Jump Freighter. For added fun, maybe give it a BlackOps style Jump Drive so it needs covert cynos?

I'm sure there are holes in this idea, feel free to pick, (like I could stop you if I wanted to ).

Bubble immunity is a funny thing. The main reason they did it with inties is because they could control its abuse with cynos via a tiny cargohold, but now ships like the stiletto are incredibly good for relic hunting. If DST were to be made bubble immune, they would have to have NO highslots, or CCP doing something radical like making ice products be only able to be carried in a special bay, and adding bays to covops, recon, blops, etc.

Your definition of what haulers are falls a bit short due to new ship lines. You should re-examine them. DST's are supposed to be spacious and tanky...but yes slow. Blockade Runners are not only fast but also apparently unknown to you...they can be covert bridged by a black ops BS. They can also light a covert cyno...although only the prowler is currently truly capable at this in a reasonable manner.

No need for jump drive equipped haulers when you can covert bridge a warpy-cloaky secretly into any system in EVE short of W-space. The DST needs to be about 70K in discrete cargo (expanders have no effect) and have their slots for tank. The Bustard and Mastodon need slot increases in their mids to make them viable along side a base HP increase. And I do believe that having bubble immunity is necessary for travel in a null sec specialized vessel. Get rid of the warp care stabilization. I can always fit warp core stabs if I want to balance against tank.

Amazing. I'm assuming they can also fit fitted ships, since that was the middle part of the idea you glossed over.

I missed CCP adding these T2 ship transporters. I seem to be so completely unfamiliar with them. I'll go try one out immediately.

The suggestions of adding in bubble immunity are very misguided. If you have a shred of skill you wouldn't be jumping into bubbles anyways, use a damn inty scout! The last thing we need is for EVE to be constantly dumbed down and yet again be put on easy mode.

The way they should be fixed is to get rid of the rep bonus, make it a resist bonus, boost the EHP slightly, maybe boost the cargo space a tiny bit and allow us to fit a decent tank on there.

Lets look at the Viator for example.



Yeah, sure it can, with just it's one high slot. They do need looked at, but any suggestion of bubble immunity is quite frankly just stupid. Even interceptors didn't really need it since you're going over 5 KM/s and quickly escaped from them. But y'know :easymode:


:bittervet:

Logically, DST's should carry a lot more cargo and somehow be able to get around most of low/null space successfully most of the time.

Bubble immunity is a funny thing. The main reason they did it with inties is because they could control its abuse with cynos via a tiny cargohold, but now ships like the stiletto are incredibly good for relic hunting.

lol whut.

Cynoceptors are a thing and relic site hunting in ceptors is not.