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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Lirs Corum Caldari Provisions Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:17:00 - [1] - Quote Which has better income in PVE after Rubicon changes?
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 64	Posted - 2014.01.06 03:33:00 - [2] - Quote in wormholes, golem. vargur cant hit battleships at 70+ km properly. but paladin is king, beats both vargur and golem. has tracking to hit cruisers, and range to hit battleships. beautiful boat.
Drago Katsov Caldari Provisions Caldari State 15	Posted - 2014.01.06 14:18:00 - [3] - Quote Using T2 ammo a Vargur can in fact kill BS at 70km. With my current fit I have a 10k Optimal and a 117km fall off. A proper fir Vargur can still instapop frigs and destroyers at range, 2 shot cruisers and BCs, and shreds BS.
Lirs Corum Caldari Provisions Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:08:00 - [4] - Quote So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right?
scorchlikeshiswhiskey Black Slag Authenticated Corrosive. 103	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:16:00 - [5] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? Keep in mind that a Marauder makes a nice, big, fat, slow moving juicy target. But cruise missiles are actually in a pretty good place right now so that is the major advantage to the Golem.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 65	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:35:00 - [6] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 65	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:37:00 - [7] - Quote scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? Keep in mind that a Marauder makes a nice, big, fat, slow moving juicy target. But cruise missiles are actually in a pretty good place right now so that is the major advantage to the Golem. yes marauders are nice targets, we lost a lot to ganks and stopped doing it. back to tengu!
Lirs Corum Valkiria Small Arms 4	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:02:00 - [8] - Quote Imagine tahat there are no gankers :) What would be better for L4 and W-space?
Mister Simms Society for Miner Education 5	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:34:00 - [9] - Quote I don't know didly about Golems, but from my xp cruise missiles are fine against cruisers if you have a TP fit and use the right missile. Precision are great, but even faction for T1 cruise do fine on the cruiser sized sleepers. The right rigs and skill set helps of course.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1055	Posted - 2014.01.10 09:42:00 - [10] - Quote scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? Keep in mind that a Marauder makes a nice, big, fat, slow moving juicy target. But cruise missiles are actually in a pretty good place right now so that is the major advantage to the Golem. No not slow.. imobile.. and you forgot to add damm tough nuts to crack as well. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1055	Posted - 2014.01.10 09:43:00 - [11] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: Imagine tahat there are no gankers :) What would be better for L4 and W-space? Golem period. Vargur was the marauder that gained less from bastion. Falloff bonus is very small on bastion and the non mobility hurts vargur far more than other marauders. Vargur is goodonly agaisnt things that throw themselves intto it. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Heavensend HaeCo interim 14	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:12:00 - [12] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: [quote=Lirs Corum] Vargur is goodonly against things that throw themselves into it. Thats the fact. Vargur will perform very well against Angels (you may use Barrage then) and missions were ships will orbit you at low orbits e.g. Angel Extra.
Batelle Komm susser Tod 1186	Posted - 2014.01.10 14:41:00 - [13] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Golem period. Vargur was the marauder that gained less from bastion. Falloff bonus is very small on bastion and the non mobility hurts vargur far more than other marauders. Vargur is goodonly agaisnt things that throw themselves intto it. good point about it being hurt by lack of mobility, but a cruise golem doesn't doesn't exactly get much from the extra range either. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Lirs Corum Valkiria Small Arms 4	Posted - 2014.01.10 16:36:00 - [14] - Quote So it seems that Golem > Vargur In most situations. What about Kronos? I like blasters and I have some skills but they arent good for PvE so far (still got T1 blasters). Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions?
Odithia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2014.01.10 17:07:00 - [15] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? All gunboat with short range weaponand 1 unloaded tracking comp. Cruise Golem with 2 painter 4 Damage mod for everyone Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur short range faction ammo http://imgur.com/mepYhyW long range t2 ammo http://imgur.com/YrP2aaU
Novah Soul 76	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:37:00 - [16] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: So it seems that Golem > Vargur In most situations. What about Kronos? I like blasters and I have some skills but they arent good for PvE so far (still got T1 blasters). Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? I don't have any experience flying a blaster Kronos but toyed with one on a fitting tool. With neutron blasters and void ammo, while in bastion, it gets something like 27k optimal and 50k falloff, at around 1000 dps. Doesn't seem too bad, minus the diminishing results of falloff, of coarse. With a pulse fit Paladin, you will be looking at a 90k optimal with scorch loaded which gives roughly 900 dps. Multis are somewhere around the 30 + 20 range and listed at 1100ish dps. Sorry for the inexact numbers, doing it from memory
Oska Rus Free Ice Cream People 133	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:58:00 - [17] - Quote what about rails kronos?
Zor'katar Matari Recreation 304	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:10:00 - [18] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: So it seems that Golem > Vargur In most situations. What about Kronos? I like blasters and I have some skills but they arent good for PvE so far (still got T1 blasters). Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? Keep in mind that there are quite a few ships that can be considered "good for all kind of L4 missions", both the Golem and Vargur included. What's being argued about is a few situational differences and percentage points of efficiency, but they're both perfectly capable of doing any L4 comfortably. Choose the one that looks more interesting to you.
Anya Klibor Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n 630	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:16:00 - [19] - Quote LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km. Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. For reference, my fit: [Vargur, Mission/PvP] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Hammerhead II x5
Batelle Komm susser Tod 1214	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:26:00 - [20] - Quote Anya Klibor wrote: Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. I call bull. There is no way you're doing 'solid damage' to targets 96 km away with 800s and a 53km falloff. That's a blanket statement I feel very comfortable making. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.

Sid Crash 75	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:26:00 - [21] - Quote Anya Klibor wrote: Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. For reference, my fit: [Vargur, Mission/PvP] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Hammerhead II x5 At 50km your fit does about 50% of max damage (as you're deep in falloff) against a BS target, so your "I get fantastic hits" is factually untrue. Also, anyone using faction cap rechargers while not having CPU issues shouldn't be regarded as being amazing and knowledgeable at fitting ships. Also "lol Pith-X".
Anya Klibor Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n 630	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:42:00 - [22] - Quote What you just said is you can't read. Gotcha'.
stoicfaux 3828	Posted - 2014.01.14 04:12:00 - [23] - Quote Anya Klibor wrote: What you just said is you can't read. Gotcha'. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage#Damage_loss_from_Falloff_and_Tracking At 57km, you're only doing ~40% of your DPS. Which is why I put three TCs with optimal scripts on my Vargur. WASABI: -áWarp Speed Module
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Ragnarok. 112	Posted - 2014.01.14 10:48:00 - [24] - Quote the advatage of the vargur is it is very adaptable to the mission or task you use it for. 800s woth short range ammo for rats that orbit at closer than 40km (70km falloff) barrage for angels (some can spawn far away) and arty for rats that orbit at 45km or further. you have the insta popping frigs as well. its not the best at running sansha blockade but it is better than the pally running angel while still able to run blockade fine. nothing beats a pally in wh though.
Batelle Komm susser Tod 1225	Posted - 2014.01.14 13:24:00 - [25] - Quote i would guess because the vargur has the worst range issues with 800s, that you would try to use siege mode more as sparingly as possible, in order to spend more time getting into range. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Rab See Fool Mental Junket 31	Posted - 2014.01.14 13:32:00 - [26] - Quote Anya Klibor wrote: Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. For reference, my fit: [Vargur, Mission/PvP] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Hammerhead II x5 Your idea of solid damage vs mine is obviously light years apart. At 96k you will be getting maybe 300/500 hits at that range. The occasional good 900 and the more likely miss/400. Ive tested fits similar to this and know. With another arty vargur next to me its obvious the arty wins by a large margin even though DPS on paper is a lot lower. Odithias graphs are very good illustrations of the strengths and weaknesses. With your fit I would always be burning to target - 35k or closer in my Vargur. But if the rats move away as you jump to bastion then its a PITA. Golem gets nice consistent application, Paladin wins for DPS. Kronos suffers like the vargur.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1067	Posted - 2014.01.14 14:44:00 - [27] - Quote Anya Klibor wrote: LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km. Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. For reference, my fit: [Vargur, Mission/PvP] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Hammerhead II x5 At that range you will be doing 1/8th of the damage a paladin would be doing... 4 tachyon T2 2 tractor 1 salvager 1 bastion 1 Good AB or MWD dependign on mission 1 MJD 2 cap recharger t2 3 HEat SInk T2 1 DC II 1 MAR II (yes that is ENOUGH to tank any mission) 2 EANM T2 /or hardeners dependign on mission 2 T1 CCC Voil+í.. cap stable even.. so no fear of disconnection whiel in bastion. Massive hangle. Almost same dps at poitn blank than a vargur.. but at 56 km FAR FAR better effective DPS. Can Use X-RAY at 107 km CHEAP.... and far more powerful than your overpriced vargur. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Ragnarok. 115	Posted - 2014.01.15 17:33:00 - [28] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Anya Klibor wrote: LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km. Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. For reference, my fit: [Vargur, Mission/PvP] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Hammerhead II x5 At that range you will be doing 1/8th of the damage a paladin would be doing... 4 tachyon T2 2 tractor 1 salvager 1 bastion 1 Good AB or MWD dependign on mission 1 MJD 2 cap recharger t2 3 HEat SInk T2 1 DC II 1 MAR II (yes that is ENOUGH to tank any mission) 2 EANM T2 /or hardeners dependign on mission 2 T1 CCC Voil+í.. cap stable even.. so no fear of disconnection whiel in bastion. Massive hangle. Almost same dps at poitn blank than a vargur.. but at 56 km FAR FAR better effective DPS. Can Use X-RAY at 107 km CHEAP.... and far more powerful than your overpriced vargur. If you are not fitting T2 pulse on a paladin you are doing it very VERY wrong.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 966	Posted - 2014.01.15 21:06:00 - [29] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: If you are not fitting T2 pulse on a paladin you are doing it very VERY wrong. After having made the switch from Pulse to tachs I can't say I completely agree.
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 600	Posted - 2014.01.15 21:36:00 - [30] - Quote Odithia wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? All gunboat with short range weaponand 1 unloaded tracking comp. Cruise Golem with 2 painter 4 Damage mod for everyone Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur short range faction ammo http://imgur.com/mepYhyW long range t2 ammo http://imgur.com/YrP2aaU I take it the golem drop off is TP into falloff?



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