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Lirs Corum Caldari Provisions Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.01.05 23:17:00 - [1] - Quote Which has better income in PVE after Rubicon changes?
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 64	Posted - 2014.01.06 03:33:00 - [2] - Quote in wormholes, golem. vargur cant hit battleships at 70+ km properly. but paladin is king, beats both vargur and golem. has tracking to hit cruisers, and range to hit battleships. beautiful boat.
Drago Katsov Caldari Provisions Caldari State 15	Posted - 2014.01.06 14:18:00 - [3] - Quote Using T2 ammo a Vargur can in fact kill BS at 70km. With my current fit I have a 10k Optimal and a 117km fall off. A proper fir Vargur can still instapop frigs and destroyers at range, 2 shot cruisers and BCs, and shreds BS.
Lirs Corum Caldari Provisions Caldari State 4	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:08:00 - [4] - Quote So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right?
scorchlikeshiswhiskey Black Slag Authenticated Corrosive. 103	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:16:00 - [5] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? Keep in mind that a Marauder makes a nice, big, fat, slow moving juicy target. But cruise missiles are actually in a pretty good place right now so that is the major advantage to the Golem.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 65	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:35:00 - [6] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 65	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:37:00 - [7] - Quote scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? Keep in mind that a Marauder makes a nice, big, fat, slow moving juicy target. But cruise missiles are actually in a pretty good place right now so that is the major advantage to the Golem. yes marauders are nice targets, we lost a lot to ganks and stopped doing it. back to tengu!
Lirs Corum Valkiria Small Arms 4	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:02:00 - [8] - Quote Imagine tahat there are no gankers :) What would be better for L4 and W-space?
Mister Simms Society for Miner Education 5	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:34:00 - [9] - Quote I don't know didly about Golems, but from my xp cruise missiles are fine against cruisers if you have a TP fit and use the right missile. Precision are great, but even faction for T1 cruise do fine on the cruiser sized sleepers. The right rigs and skill set helps of course.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1055	Posted - 2014.01.10 09:42:00 - [10] - Quote scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? Keep in mind that a Marauder makes a nice, big, fat, slow moving juicy target. But cruise missiles are actually in a pretty good place right now so that is the major advantage to the Golem. No not slow.. imobile.. and you forgot to add damm tough nuts to crack as well. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1055	Posted - 2014.01.10 09:43:00 - [11] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: Imagine tahat there are no gankers :) What would be better for L4 and W-space? Golem period. Vargur was the marauder that gained less from bastion. Falloff bonus is very small on bastion and the non mobility hurts vargur far more than other marauders. Vargur is goodonly agaisnt things that throw themselves intto it. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Heavensend HaeCo interim 14	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:12:00 - [12] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: [quote=Lirs Corum] Vargur is goodonly against things that throw themselves into it. Thats the fact. Vargur will perform very well against Angels (you may use Barrage then) and missions were ships will orbit you at low orbits e.g. Angel Extra.
Batelle Komm susser Tod 1186	Posted - 2014.01.10 14:41:00 - [13] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Golem period. Vargur was the marauder that gained less from bastion. Falloff bonus is very small on bastion and the non mobility hurts vargur far more than other marauders. Vargur is goodonly agaisnt things that throw themselves intto it. good point about it being hurt by lack of mobility, but a cruise golem doesn't doesn't exactly get much from the extra range either. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Lirs Corum Valkiria Small Arms 4	Posted - 2014.01.10 16:36:00 - [14] - Quote So it seems that Golem > Vargur In most situations. What about Kronos? I like blasters and I have some skills but they arent good for PvE so far (still got T1 blasters). Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions?
Odithia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2014.01.10 17:07:00 - [15] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? All gunboat with short range weaponand 1 unloaded tracking comp. Cruise Golem with 2 painter 4 Damage mod for everyone Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur short range faction ammo http://imgur.com/mepYhyW long range t2 ammo http://imgur.com/YrP2aaU
Novah Soul 76	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:37:00 - [16] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: So it seems that Golem > Vargur In most situations. What about Kronos? I like blasters and I have some skills but they arent good for PvE so far (still got T1 blasters). Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? I don't have any experience flying a blaster Kronos but toyed with one on a fitting tool. With neutron blasters and void ammo, while in bastion, it gets something like 27k optimal and 50k falloff, at around 1000 dps. Doesn't seem too bad, minus the diminishing results of falloff, of coarse. With a pulse fit Paladin, you will be looking at a 90k optimal with scorch loaded which gives roughly 900 dps. Multis are somewhere around the 30 + 20 range and listed at 1100ish dps. Sorry for the inexact numbers, doing it from memory
Oska Rus Free Ice Cream People 133	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:58:00 - [17] - Quote what about rails kronos?
Zor'katar Matari Recreation 304	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:10:00 - [18] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: So it seems that Golem > Vargur In most situations. What about Kronos? I like blasters and I have some skills but they arent good for PvE so far (still got T1 blasters). Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? Keep in mind that there are quite a few ships that can be considered "good for all kind of L4 missions", both the Golem and Vargur included. What's being argued about is a few situational differences and percentage points of efficiency, but they're both perfectly capable of doing any L4 comfortably. Choose the one that looks more interesting to you.
Anya Klibor Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n 630	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:16:00 - [19] - Quote LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km. Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. For reference, my fit: [Vargur, Mission/PvP] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Hammerhead II x5
Batelle Komm susser Tod 1214	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:26:00 - [20] - Quote Anya Klibor wrote: Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. I call bull. There is no way you're doing 'solid damage' to targets 96 km away with 800s and a 53km falloff. That's a blanket statement I feel very comfortable making. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Sid Crash 75	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:26:00 - [21] - Quote Anya Klibor wrote: Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. For reference, my fit: [Vargur, Mission/PvP] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Hammerhead II x5 At 50km your fit does about 50% of max damage (as you're deep in falloff) against a BS target, so your "I get fantastic hits" is factually untrue. Also, anyone using faction cap rechargers while not having CPU issues shouldn't be regarded as being amazing and knowledgeable at fitting ships. Also "lol Pith-X".
Anya Klibor Insanely Twisted D3vil's Childr3n 630	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:42:00 - [22] - Quote What you just said is you can't read. Gotcha'.
stoicfaux 3828	Posted - 2014.01.14 04:12:00 - [23] - Quote Anya Klibor wrote: What you just said is you can't read. Gotcha'. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage#Damage_loss_from_Falloff_and_Tracking At 57km, you're only doing ~40% of your DPS. Which is why I put three TCs with optimal scripts on my Vargur. WASABI: -áWarp Speed Module
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Ragnarok. 112	Posted - 2014.01.14 10:48:00 - [24] - Quote the advatage of the vargur is it is very adaptable to the mission or task you use it for. 800s woth short range ammo for rats that orbit at closer than 40km (70km falloff) barrage for angels (some can spawn far away) and arty for rats that orbit at 45km or further. you have the insta popping frigs as well. its not the best at running sansha blockade but it is better than the pally running angel while still able to run blockade fine. nothing beats a pally in wh though.
Batelle Komm susser Tod 1225	Posted - 2014.01.14 13:24:00 - [25] - Quote i would guess because the vargur has the worst range issues with 800s, that you would try to use siege mode more as sparingly as possible, in order to spend more time getting into range. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Rab See Fool Mental Junket 31	Posted - 2014.01.14 13:32:00 - [26] - Quote Anya Klibor wrote: Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. For reference, my fit: [Vargur, Mission/PvP] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Hammerhead II x5 Your idea of solid damage vs mine is obviously light years apart. At 96k you will be getting maybe 300/500 hits at that range. The occasional good 900 and the more likely miss/400. Ive tested fits similar to this and know. With another arty vargur next to me its obvious the arty wins by a large margin even though DPS on paper is a lot lower. Odithias graphs are very good illustrations of the strengths and weaknesses. With your fit I would always be burning to target - 35k or closer in my Vargur. But if the rats move away as you jump to bastion then its a PITA. Golem gets nice consistent application, Paladin wins for DPS. Kronos suffers like the vargur.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1067	Posted - 2014.01.14 14:44:00 - [27] - Quote Anya Klibor wrote: LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km. Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. For reference, my fit: [Vargur, Mission/PvP] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Hammerhead II x5 At that range you will be doing 1/8th of the damage a paladin would be doing... 4 tachyon T2 2 tractor 1 salvager 1 bastion 1 Good AB or MWD dependign on mission 1 MJD 2 cap recharger t2 3 HEat SInk T2 1 DC II 1 MAR II (yes that is ENOUGH to tank any mission) 2 EANM T2 /or hardeners dependign on mission 2 T1 CCC Voil+í.. cap stable even.. so no fear of disconnection whiel in bastion. Massive hangle. Almost same dps at poitn blank than a vargur.. but at 56 km FAR FAR better effective DPS. Can Use X-RAY at 107 km CHEAP.... and far more powerful than your overpriced vargur. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Ragnarok. 115	Posted - 2014.01.15 17:33:00 - [28] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Anya Klibor wrote: LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km. Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. For reference, my fit: [Vargur, Mission/PvP] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Hammerhead II x5 At that range you will be doing 1/8th of the damage a paladin would be doing... 4 tachyon T2 2 tractor 1 salvager 1 bastion 1 Good AB or MWD dependign on mission 1 MJD 2 cap recharger t2 3 HEat SInk T2 1 DC II 1 MAR II (yes that is ENOUGH to tank any mission) 2 EANM T2 /or hardeners dependign on mission 2 T1 CCC Voil+í.. cap stable even.. so no fear of disconnection whiel in bastion. Massive hangle. Almost same dps at poitn blank than a vargur.. but at 56 km FAR FAR better effective DPS. Can Use X-RAY at 107 km CHEAP.... and far more powerful than your overpriced vargur. If you are not fitting T2 pulse on a paladin you are doing it very VERY wrong.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 966	Posted - 2014.01.15 21:06:00 - [29] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: If you are not fitting T2 pulse on a paladin you are doing it very VERY wrong. After having made the switch from Pulse to tachs I can't say I completely agree.
Morrigan LeSante The Lost and Forgotten Troopers 600	Posted - 2014.01.15 21:36:00 - [30] - Quote Odithia wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? All gunboat with short range weaponand 1 unloaded tracking comp. Cruise Golem with 2 painter 4 Damage mod for everyone Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur short range faction ammo http://imgur.com/mepYhyW long range t2 ammo http://imgur.com/YrP2aaU I take it the golem drop off is TP into falloff?
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 1088	Posted - 2014.01.15 21:37:00 - [31] - Quote People have failed to grasp the fact that maruaders can now jumo INTO the fight and not just out of it. Both are great for missions, both are great for wormholes, the potential for loss in a WH is not worth risking it unless you have a pro fleet, if you have a pro fleet you dont need a marauder to clear the hole. **** the forums for eating the second half of my well articulated post. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1078	Posted - 2014.01.16 09:25:00 - [32] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Anya Klibor wrote: LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur. Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower. Right? cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km. Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument. For reference, my fit: [Vargur, Mission/PvP] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Domination Tracking Enhancer Damage Control II Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive Imperial Navy Cap Recharger Imperial Navy Cap Recharger 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Bastion Module I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Hammerhead II x5 At that range you will be doing 1/8th of the damage a paladin would be doing... 4 tachyon T2 2 tractor 1 salvager 1 bastion 1 Good AB or MWD dependign on mission 1 MJD 2 cap recharger t2 3 HEat SInk T2 1 DC II 1 MAR II (yes that is ENOUGH to tank any mission) 2 EANM T2 /or hardeners dependign on mission 2 T1 CCC Voil+í.. cap stable even.. so no fear of disconnection whiel in bastion. Massive hangle. Almost same dps at poitn blank than a vargur.. but at 56 km FAR FAR better effective DPS. Can Use X-RAY at 107 km CHEAP.... and far more powerful than your overpriced vargur. If you are not fitting T2 pulse on a paladin you are doing it very VERY wrong. Nope.. if you are fittign PULSe than YOU are doign it very very wrong. Tachyons have a far superior damage projection. I acn do MOre damage with MF at same range that you use Scorch. I did both, tested, collected numbers, and Pulse Paladins are an idiotic choice if compared to tachyons ones. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Odithia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2014.01.16 10:38:00 - [33] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Odithia wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? All gunboat with short range weaponand 1 unloaded tracking comp. Cruise Golem with 2 painter 4 Damage mod for everyone Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur short range faction ammo http://imgur.com/mepYhyW long range t2 ammo http://imgur.com/YrP2aaU I take it the golem drop off is TP into falloff? Yes, 1 mark is 90%, 2nd is 80% chances of success. You probably can get better results at longer range with 3 TP but those are hard to fit and I wanted to get similar fit on all ships (same tank, same number of dmg mod).
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1080	Posted - 2014.01.16 14:24:00 - [34] - Quote Odithia wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? All gunboat with short range weaponand 1 unloaded tracking comp. Cruise Golem with 2 painter 4 Damage mod for everyone Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur short range faction ammo http://imgur.com/mepYhyW long range t2 ammo http://imgur.com/YrP2aaU Why to use fail short range weapons? Put 4 T2 tachyons with 4 damage mods on a paladin and NAVY MF ammo.. with correct implants 1 K dps at 65km. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Odithia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2014.01.16 15:43:00 - [35] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Odithia wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? All gunboat with short range weaponand 1 unloaded tracking comp. Cruise Golem with 2 painter 4 Damage mod for everyone Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur short range faction ammo http://imgur.com/mepYhyW long range t2 ammo http://imgur.com/YrP2aaU Why to use fail short range weapons? Put 4 T2 tachyons with 4 damage mods on a paladin and NAVY MF ammo.. with correct implants 1 K dps at 65km. The point was to have similar fit on all ships. I post updated graph with long range ammo later today. ... And add the ishtars for lulz
Odithia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2014.01.16 19:12:00 - [36] - Quote Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur Pink Ishtar (Garde II, 4 dmg mod, 1 track, not rigged) http://imgur.com/F8dCnva (short range ammo for everyone)
Rab See Fool Mental Junket 31	Posted - 2014.01.16 19:56:00 - [37] - Quote Odithia wrote: Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur Pink Ishtar (Garde II, 4 dmg mod, 1 track, not rigged) http://imgur.com/F8dCnva (short range ammo for everyone) Yup - Ishtar - the joke that nobody laughs at. Fields small, medium and large weapons - all damage types and serious range if you want it. Whats not to like. Nb - it can cope with every mission I use it in, more DPS applied than the vargur for sure.
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Ragnarok. 117	Posted - 2014.01.16 23:53:00 - [38] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Odithia wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? All gunboat with short range weaponand 1 unloaded tracking comp. Cruise Golem with 2 painter 4 Damage mod for everyone Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur short range faction ammo http://imgur.com/mepYhyW long range t2 ammo http://imgur.com/YrP2aaU Why to use fail short range weapons? Put 4 T2 tachyons with 4 damage mods on a paladin and NAVY MF ammo.. with correct implants 1 K dps at 65km. Meanwhile T2 pulse with 4 damage mods on paladin with just 2 implants you get 989k turret dps at 98km OPTIMAL with scorch and 1385 dps up to 33km with conflag all the while having better tracking and CAP STABLE with a 712 dps OMNI tank. Best part is you have three TCs you can refit to tracking or mixed depending on range and target ships. Oh and those stats are with only the damage mods faciton, rest is ALL T2. T2 pulse is bullshit OP on Paladin.
stoicfaux 3836	Posted - 2014.01.17 02:44:00 - [39] - Quote Rab See wrote: Odithia wrote: Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur Pink Ishtar (Garde II, 4 dmg mod, 1 track, not rigged) http://imgur.com/F8dCnva (short range ammo for everyone) Yup - Ishtar - the joke that nobody laughs at. Fields small, medium and large weapons - all damage types and serious range if you want it. Whats not to like. Nb - it can cope with every mission I use it in, more DPS applied than the vargur for sure. Omnis are getting nerfed. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=313116&find=unread T2 Omni numbers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4116858#post4116858 WASABI: -áWarp Speed Module
Rexxorr Zero Corp Tax2 64	Posted - 2014.01.17 05:43:00 - [40] - Quote I like using the T2 pulse on my paladin. Faster pulse cycle time clears frigs/dest/bc that much faster. Smaller faster volleys means less wasted over kill dps. Scorch has fantastic range with instant damage. Close targets ~30k conflag is just brutal. TC in my mids allow for better tracking or even more optimum range. Pulse paladin is the strongest lvl 4 marauder imo. (with angel npc I use a vargur)
Heavensend HaeCo interim 15	Posted - 2014.01.17 09:21:00 - [41] - Quote Rexxorr wrote: I like using the T2 pulse on my paladin. Faster pulse cycle time clears frigs/dest/bc that much faster. Smaller faster volleys means less wasted over kill dps. Scorch has fantastic range with instant damage. Close targets ~30k conflag is just brutal. TC in my mids allow for better tracking or even more optimum range. Pulse paladin is the strongest lvl 4 marauder imo. (with angel npc I use a vargur) Exactly this. Conflag 1300 DPS at 32km with better tracking than Tachys. No more to say. But back to topic i think vargur has more flexibilty. It has awesome tracking and good falloff. Ammo has no flight time as CM have. Overkill is very small cause of low cycle times ~3secs. You will hit even close targets very well. You only have to turn AC on not additionally TP or switch missile type for smaller targets. If correctly used with MJD or MWD (faction with low -% on cap) it will outperform Golem i guess.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1118	Posted - 2014.01.17 09:40:00 - [42] - Quote Heavensend wrote: Rexxorr wrote: I like using the T2 pulse on my paladin. Faster pulse cycle time clears frigs/dest/bc that much faster. Smaller faster volleys means less wasted over kill dps. Scorch has fantastic range with instant damage. Close targets ~30k conflag is just brutal. TC in my mids allow for better tracking or even more optimum range. Pulse paladin is the strongest lvl 4 marauder imo. (with angel npc I use a vargur) Exactly this. Conflag 1300 DPS at 32km with better tracking than Tachys. No more to say. But back to topic i think vargur has more flexibilty. It has awesome tracking and good falloff. Ammo has no flight time as CM have. Overkill is very small cause of low cycle times ~3secs. You will hit even close targets very well. You only have to turn AC on not additionally TP or switch missile type for smaller targets. If correctly used with MJD or MWD (faction with low -% on cap) it will outperform Golem i guess. At 60 km (clsoest range I need to go to have 1 k dps) I can track frigates with 100% hit rate. Ungroup your guns... I ran and tested several times. Tachyon paladin get a way better average time on missions. The no need to MJD to kill that pocked of 4 cruisers far away more than pays off. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1119	Posted - 2014.01.17 09:48:00 - [43] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Odithia wrote: Lirs Corum wrote: Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? All gunboat with short range weaponand 1 unloaded tracking comp. Cruise Golem with 2 painter 4 Damage mod for everyone Dark Blue Golem Cyan Kronos Red Paladin Green Vargur short range faction ammo http://imgur.com/mepYhyW long range t2 ammo http://imgur.com/YrP2aaU Why to use fail short range weapons? Put 4 T2 tachyons with 4 damage mods on a paladin and NAVY MF ammo.. with correct implants 1 K dps at 65km. Meanwhile T2 pulse with 4 damage mods on paladin with just 2 implants you get 989k turret dps at 98km OPTIMAL with scorch and 1385 dps up to 33km with conflag all the while having better tracking and CAP STABLE with a 712 dps OMNI tank. Best part is you have three TCs you can refit to tracking or mixed depending on range and target ships. Oh and those stats are with only the damage mods faciton, rest is ALL T2. T2 pulse is bullshit OP on Paladin. My stats are not using faction mods for damage mods. My tank is also cap stable, and strong enough to face ANY mission, specially since I do not get within 20 km of rats. Also your numbers are Lies. They are usign Drone DPS combined. Your drones are not doign damage at that range. Tachyons have MORE DPS than Pulse lasers at same range!!! Put faction damage mods on my paladin, add the drones as you are using and that 65 km damage goes to 1200 dps... 1200 dps at 65 km! And at the range you fight with a paladin you do not have ANY tracking issues. Tachyons have the extra bonus of when needed, being able to pop enemies 120 km from you with very high dps still. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Ragnarok. 118	Posted - 2014.01.17 11:02:00 - [44] - Quote pathetic, the fact that you call me a liar proves that you have not actually bothered to run the numbers. now before you make any more wild accusations I suggest you read my post thoroughly and actually bother opening eft. I will gladly help you if you ask nicely.
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Ragnarok. 118	Posted - 2014.01.17 16:59:00 - [45] - Quote Ran a quick actual gameplay test. Same fit, same implants, same damage mods, same skills, everything. Gone bezerk, I actually thought tachs would do better in this mission specifically because of ranges and spawns but with pulse I finished in 11min and with tachs finished in 12min. Yes everything was in optimal but overkill on the cruisers and some tracking issues and the longer cycle time boned it a bit it seems. Tachs are great but pulse is better.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 496	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:05:00 - [46] - Quote megapulse and conflag inside 40km (or so) and use a mobile depot to swap to tachyons when you need the range. You can trust me, I have a monocole
XiiX Smyth Mentant 4	Posted - 2014.01.18 12:07:00 - [47] - Quote For the isk recommend a Pirate Faction BS. Salvage market is so low that not worth the time, no need to salvage. (unless elite salvage PvP) I traded my Vargur for the Machariel and so much better. Its also fast enough to pick up loot without a tractor in a little more time than a tractor fitted Vargur. Missions are going faster, and WH results much better. anyway at least don't get a Vargur. p.s. 4 people like me
Take Enemy B4D W0LF 0	Posted - 2014.01.21 19:46:00 - [48] - Quote Having used all Marauders accept Paladin and both Mach/Vindi, I believe the Vargur is far and away the simplest L4 mission runner. My $.02 isk: 1) Problem with Mach/Vindi post Rubicon is that in relation to EW it is much more of a pain to complete certain missions - Gurista's/Serpentis with ECM/Damp's especially come to mind - compared to Marauders. Add that they do not have the cargo bays for loot/salavage and they are just sub-par current meta for clearing missions. Some earlier poster stated that no money in salvage, but I beg to defer, salvage + looting is easily more then 1/2 the revenue in missioning (excepting drone missions of course). AE + bonus room is over 40M isk with loot/salvage. I was a Mach/Varg runner for ages depending on mission, but post Rubicon sold the Mach as just no where near the isk/hour ratio for a single pilot as a Vargur. 2) While I have used (and enjoy extremely) Torp Golem/Neutron Kronos - and with MJD/Mobile Depot can get up close and personal very easily and dish out 1200-1350 DPS - they take a little more effort. 3) Cruise Golem is excellent for sitting back and whacking everything at any range for about 1K dps except it is a click fest with 4x faction TP's and having to use combat drones more often for frigs. 4) As mentioned above Golem in either iteration is kinda a click fest - I feel l like I am playing a twitch FPS by how fast you have to cycle TP's/missiles/drones etc. Both are excellent. All that said, the Vargur I think is the best mission runner of the group. Slightly lower DPS than the other Marauders, but insta-blapping all frigs at 100K range or less (down to about 18K if lucky with my setup) is just huge. With AB fitted is pretty quick and I usually just AB to gate and drop Bastion/MTU/Salvage drones and go to town. Easiest Marauder to omni tank and good damage selection (i always bring appropriate short range faction ammo and Barrage). However, I must say that I have the most fun in the 1200-1350 DPS Torp Golem/Neutron Kronos. Almost makes missions fun (almost) by 2 to 3 shotting BS. For Null (given safe ratting system - if there is such a thing) Cruise Golem, no question). My Vargur fit for reference (over-tanked a little): 4x 800 II's 3x Tractor 2x Gistum C-type Adaptive Invuln's 1x Core C-type 100mn AB 1x Gist B-Type Large Shield Repper 2x TC II (w/tracking script) 3x RF Gyro's 2x TE II Large Anti-Thermal Screen T2 Large Anti-EM Screen T2 Mobile Depot w/MJD/MWD as needed edited for failed diction
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Ragnarok. 118	Posted - 2014.01.22 12:13:00 - [49] - Quote overtanked? you dont say... that aside with th te nerf id rather swap out a te with a gyro2 and get replace the rigs with a t1 ambit and a t2 burst. youd stll be overtanked but at least now youll be doing a bit more dps.
Rab See Fool Mental Junket 31	Posted - 2014.01.22 14:33:00 - [50] - Quote As much as I agree about the Marauders being good in general, I hate to say it, but the Golem and Paladin crap all over the Vargur and Kronos. Doing missions where there are lots of frigates is about the only thing a Vargur is good for, otherwise you use artillery which are crap at doing frigates and painfully low DPS on top (by crap I mean wasted over-dps, or worse, annoying under dps). You fit autos and get great frigate obliteration, but terrible damage application on BS above 40k. You watch while your mates Paladin obliterates stuff at 40k, you trundle over, MJD MWD or whatever ... its just time wasted. For angel missions it is better - aggro the room and eventually you will be pummelling stuff, but they aren't closing that fast that your DPS is near the top for long. So Vargur (and Kronos to some extent) have the same issue. Between a Rock and a Crap place. Rats are rarely 'on top'. You deliver less dps even when the Paladin/Golem can MJD away to get range and deliver more. You team up with mates and get relegated to 'kill the frigs while I do the BS'. Its a joke. The bonuses stop you moving and put you 100k or whatever off. Of course you can jump to an angle, but when you Bastion up, the dps as they split apart goes down rapidly. Aside from that - the Vargur is better than the other option for Minmatar oriented pilots. The Maelstrom is so slow its like Bastion without the benefits.
Take Enemy B4D W0LF 0	Posted - 2014.01.27 07:48:00 - [51] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: overtanked? you dont say... that aside with th te nerf id rather swap out a te with a gyro2 and get replace the rigs with a t1 ambit and a t2 burst. youd stll be overtanked but at least now youll be doing a bit more dps. Partial necro, but I have been away. Yeah, rigs were from pre-bastion days. Been wondering the best way to add dps and will likely switch to damage rigs.
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Ragnarok. 121	Posted - 2014.01.27 12:56:00 - [52] - Quote Take Enemy wrote: Anize Oramara wrote: overtanked? you dont say... that aside with th te nerf id rather swap out a te with a gyro2 and get replace the rigs with a t1 ambit and a t2 burst. youd stll be overtanked but at least now youll be doing a bit more dps. Partial necro, but I have been away. Yeah, rigs were from pre-bastion days. Been wondering the best way to add dps and will likely switch to damage rigs. I hear ya, I still had 2 t2 ambits on mine. ripped one out for a t1 burst. havent had the heart to rip out yhe other one when I was in hs last time.
Izuru Hishido Lethal Dosage. Violent Society 25	Posted - 2014.01.27 13:10:00 - [53] - Quote Lirs Corum wrote: So it seems that Golem > Vargur In most situations. What about Kronos? I like blasters and I have some skills but they arent good for PvE so far (still got T1 blasters). Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions? Golem is not necessarily superior to any of the other marauders. I've used all four marauders and experimented with fits ranging from straight T2 to >meta 11, and I've found that the best for engaging high DPS at range is the Vargur. The thing with the marauders is that you have to tailor them to the situation that you're putting them into. Golems tank insanely hard, I won't deny that, but overall, their DPS at range is surprisingly underwhelming. Cruises are very nice, especially for hitting BC and BS at long range, and torps do huge DPS at close range, but I frankly prefer the Paladin or the Vargur. The thing with the Vargur is that like most AC ships, it does okay with moderate skills, but its true value is only shown with essentially maxed related skills. If you want to take the time to max all your gunnery supplements, the Vargur will be at lowest on par with the Golem, if not better. Vargurs have the same benefit of capless ammo, so neuting doesn't really hurt them (which is very important against sleepers and some rats,) and with an ancillary shield booster, both of them tank like absolute bastards, but the Vargur to me seems to outperform the Golem in the most important areas. As for the Paladin and the Kronos, the fits I loved the most with them were the long range fits, especially Tachyons on the Paladin. The sheer amount of damage at range easily allows you to annihilate most everything before it can get to a point of being a threat. Its easy enough to hit all ships, with the exception of some frigates before they close in, and the drones certainly make up for the Tach and 425 tracking issues at close range. I wouldn't necessarily think its required to put blasters on a kronos with the flexibility of the railguns, just like I wouldn't put arties on a Vargur due to having essentially maxed gunnery skills. For level fours in general, any marauder can tank them trivially, and annihilate the NPC's in extremely short order. For Sanctums and Havens in null, they tank perfectly against the incoming DPS, and while the Kronos and Paladin might run into some cap issues at times, its relatively easy to work around. As far as I've seen, anything involving sleepers is best handled with any type of shield tank, and the Bastion module gives both the Vargur and the Golem enough flexibility to tank and apply damage, but it all depends on what you use it for. Honestly, it all comes down to personal preference, and I personally love my Vargurs since they seem to be the most flexible out of all of the marauders. Hope that helps, but if not, I guess that's fine too.

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