I refer you to a recent post by CCP Falcon

Do you think he would say such a thing if he thought it was a problem?

You quote CCP Falcon like he is speaking God words
When CCP shareholders will slap him over his head because losing customers and real money his words will not worth a dime anymore...

It is not possible to quote as if he was speaking God's words, as there is no God.

The point is the very thing you are complaining about is by design, internet spaceships are supposed to go boom!

The more things go boom, the healthier the game is. The ones who allow their ships to go boom, should have been protecting their assets better. Nobody is making the players fly ships that are worth enough to gank, that is the victims decision, just like the ganker decided to blow them up. Like it or not it is what the game is about.

Look on this with a bit more attention: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Megamaks+T44

All problem is not about some ships going "boom", is about a massacre where they kill anything they choose to kill, no matter of ships, fits, etc. A gang of only 12 destroyers did 1500 billions damage in few weeks... think at the moment when others will get same way organized... 50-60 of people will be able to eradicate all faction ships, and maybe all missioners and miners from high sec.
Now, in high security systems,is no way to defend because of concord protecting them, thanks to new broken security tags mechanic who make suicide gankers able to keep positive security status, no matter how many ships they gang...

I looked at it, it doesn't change my opinion, the weak are preyed upon and the strong survive.

The catch is that against 15-20 destroyers no matter how "weak" or "strong" you are, whatever you do and how well you tank it, your ship will die for sure in flames
And please pull out of your head that darwinian nonsense who not apply to human race... we are humans and we can use various weapons, so don't matter how weak humans are, can kill anytime any strong one using right tools, is enough just to really want to do that.
You will not be never strong enough to survive a knife stiffed in you back or to poison put in your food by a very skinny women

A gang of only 12 destroyers did 1500 billions damage in few weeks:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Megamaks+T44

Look on this and notice that something looks very wrong there... also notice how much money they make from the loot they get...

This guys effectively do a genocide between people who do missions, and if CCP not change something, i bet that at this rate of killings they will gone lose a lot of subscribers.

Is very obvious that is way to easy to kill very expensive ships in very cheap ones, and moreover, with new dumb pro-piracy feature of sec status instant boost, using pirate insignias, gankers can get security status back instant, and keep going on suicide gank ships at infinitum as long is very profitable too.

They cannot be stopped in that cheap and fast ships, killrights dont have any use because of same reasons...
So guys take care and brick tank your ships, but that will not help to much as long they use enough destroyers...

You are taking my words and turning them into your perceived ignorance. I was not referring to anything physical, as this game does not require any physical strength but strength in the mind.

If you think darwin's observations are non-sense and do not apply to humans then you are going to have a very hard life, both in game and out.

The weak are the ones who think they are safe, or think there is nothing they can do against 15 gankers and just give up.

The strong are the ones who get ganked, figure out why, make adjustments to their strategies and tactics, and execute the changes to the desired effect.

Most of people have a hard life because of reasons who are unrelated with their mind strenght.
Also i doubt that CCP will want to throw away all the money who they get from people who will choose to not "adapt" against that orgy of killings.
Many people play and do missions just for the pleasure of getting a nice faction ship, if you decide that is not anymore an option then CCP will need to deal with many unhappy customers.
And i bet that money worth more for a capitalistic corporation with shareholders like CCP, than you empty words about surviving.
In human reality all is about money my friend, absolutely all.

We are not friends, do not refer to me as one.

Again, you perceive a problem, CCP obviously does not as they designed the game to be the way that it is and the game has been around for longer than most so they must be doing something right.

glorious tears

Welcome to EVE.

Working as intended.

If you are too stupid to notice a spike in local, or that suddenly SISTERS COMBAT SCANNER PROBES on d-scan, you deserve to lose your blingy mission boat.

I recommend you discover the joys of mining, or gas harvesting, or planetary interaction.

Of course, you better get a permit, if you plan on doing it in hisec.

TLDR

HTFU, you pansy.

more tears and stuff

www.minerbumping.com, among others.

I and others force people to play our way every single day.

And I relax by exploding other players ships, players like you.

Welcome to the bottom of the EVE food chain, prey.

PS.

Best tell your CEO you are crap-posting in C&P. That way he will know where the wardecs are coming from.

Is obvious we are not friends...
All your sickness come from inside you, have something to do with childhood and lack of trust in people. You are compelled to see everything in terms of power and weakness, and most of all, you hate your own weakness...
You just hate people as much you hate yourself. And you know why? Because you will never be so strong as you want to be, and will be always something or someone who you cannot control...

Single player games where you can expect to survive 12 on 1 are that way >>>>>>>>>>

A gang of only 12 destroyers did 1500 billions damage in few weeks:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Megamaks+T44

They've been playing since 2009.

How is that a few weeks?

Another one who like to think about himself as being in the top of food chain... Well, you are not, will be always bigger sharks than you in the ocean
Well, you like it or not, many people stay in high sec because they play this game to relax not to compulsive push d-scan button every second like in low sec... Same thing for miners. You cannot force people to play the game in the way you want.

Nope we can't force you to play or how to play...but we can blow you up

Its been going on for 10 years....its what makes people want to play eve.....yes that means eve won't have 10millions sub's like wow.....but its our game our much our sandbox

If you want relaxing. I think my daughter has hello kitty online..... Or play minecraft....or are creepers banking your sandbox there too?

Yes, you are right, that stats is only for a single player. I bet that as entire gang they killed a lot more than 1500 billions.

You quote CCP Falcon like he is speaking God words
When CCP shareholders will slap him over his head because losing customers and real money his words will not worth a dime anymore...

Why will these subs start going away "soon" when this sort of thing has been going on for a decade and, from the last we heard from CCP on the subject, ganking is lately at an all time low? What has changed to make it so that now is when the mass unsubs are going to start?

You are agree that that gankers make obscene amount of isk very easy with zero risk? That need to be fixed soon because every player with low skills who get enough friends in destroyers can make a lot of money killing faction ships.

So your contention is that the game is too easy for new players? I see...

You cannot tank a ship against tens of destroyers, and don't need to be afk. Actually is nothing you can do if some gankers decide to suicide destroy your faction battleship.
Your idea is just that we all need to fly dirty cheap ships to not be killed in hisec by people who not risk anything in the process? Better think again because that is a silly solution.

If you're saying that you can never be 100% safe anywhere in EVE cuz no matter what you do, if ppl can bring enough firepower they can kill you, than you are right. If you have a problem with that I suggest not undocking or better yet: leave the game.

ignorant garbage

]ignorant garbag
Hey.

Moron.

You are aware CCP has gone on record saying that certain types of players are not desired in EVE.

Players pretty much like you.
.

That statement may not concur with CCP goal of doing a profitable business...
For you is very simple to say that because don't cost you anything, but for CCP every player brought in game mean a lot of moneys spent on advertising (you will see a lot of EVE advert on many websites, and that cost a lot of money...) and their shareholders expect some returns...
So from a business perspective, solution for problems meet by players are a bit more complicated than a simple GTFO, right?

They kill just to many, to expensive ships to fast and to easy.
Is game breaking to kill so many expensive ships so easy and is very unbalanced to make tens of billions of isk every day without any risk, as long you can use 500k isk ships to kill ships who worth many billions...
Also a big problem is the new broken pro-piracy feature, who provide suicide gankers with a way to instant fix their security status. That make things much worse because they make a lot of money and can afford to buy insignias and fix their security status, then keep going killing at infinitum without becoming flashy.

Zero risk, hundred of billions destroyed in days, tens of billions profit in days... that is broken game mechanic.

Hey.

Stuff that will probably get removed by GMs

You are aware CCP has gone on record saying that certain types of players are not desired in EVE.

Players pretty much like you.

More stuff which will probably get removed by GMs

Also, be sure to to tell your CEO why his corp is getting decced soon.

I look forward to making you play the game my way, whether you like it or not. In your case, this will probably mean you dock up for a week and go play WoW.

They don't need to manage any criminal flags because they never go under -5 security status, thanks to security tags, and after ganking, all they need to do is to dock their flashy pods for 15 minutes, then just repeat repeat the process...

Is not very easy indeed, but people learn fast, and if you rely just on players incompetence as main fix for game mechanics then something is very wrong...

I think this is unbalanced with mining ships. Orca and other mining ships do not have good defenses. I had all my drones from all 3 mining ships and 2 ships took all 3 of my ships, this is not very balanced. I do think that mining ships should be immune from Webifiers and Warp Disruption. I say this because they are slow and can not get away from the bubble of the field before they are taken out. This make it very easy for anyone to take you out. Bottom line there needs to be something out there that would help miners out. Please look into this or if there is something out there, then I have not found it and would like to have someone help me with that. Thanks.

If you want relaxing. I think my daughter has hello kitty online..... Or play minecraft....or are creepers banking your sandbox there too?

My 10yr old daughter loves helping me gank miners. She giggles every time she gets to press F1.

Try being at the keyboard, fitting a tank and not being an easy mark.

Try being at the keyboard, fitting a tank and not being an easy mark.

The Mackinaw can pack a reasonable tank. The Procurer and Skiff can pack so much tank that they're undesirable targets from an economic point of view.

The Orca can pack scary scary amounts of tank, boost the resistances of the rest of the fleet and generally be a tough nut to crack, as long as you don't go the "lets eat up half of my ehp with cargo expanders" route.

Your defence consists of being harder to kill than the other guy, and being able to last longer than the time it takes for Concord to drop the doughnuts and answer the blap-phone.

Obviously anything, no matter the tank, will die if enough people decides that it needs to, not being the person who annoyed them enough to do so is usually a good idea.

As for immune to warp disruption? They don't need a scram or a disrupter to stop you warping.

Immune to webs? You don't want to be immune to webs, when you figure out why this is the case you'll realise just how dumb that suggestion was.

A gang of only 12 destroyers did 1500 billions damage in few weeks:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Megamaks+T44

Look on this and notice that something looks very wrong there... also notice how much money they make from the loot they get...

This guys effectively do a genocide between people who do missions, and if CCP not change something, i bet that at this rate of killings they will gone lose a lot of subscribers.

Is very obvious that is way to easy to kill very expensive ships in very cheap ones, and moreover, with new dumb pro-piracy feature of sec status instant boost, using pirate insignias, gankers can get security status back instant, and keep going on suicide gank ships at infinitum as long is very profitable too.

They cannot be stopped in that cheap and fast ships, killrights dont have any use because of same reasons...
So guys take care and brick tank your ships, but that will not help to much as long they use enough destroyers...

They kill just to many, to expensive ships to fast and to easy.
Is game breaking to kill so many expensive ships so easy and is very unbalanced to make tens of billions of isk every day without any risk, as long you can use 500k isk ships to kill ships who worth many billions...
Also a big problem is the new broken pro-piracy feature, who provide suicide gankers with a way to instant fix their security status. That make things much worse because they make a lot of money and can afford to buy insignias and fix their security status, then keep going killing at infinitum without becoming flashy.

Zero risk, hundred of billions destroyed in days, tens of billions profit in days... that is broken game mechanic.

A gang of only 12 destroyers did 1500 billions damage in few weeks:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Megamaks+T44

Look on this and notice that something looks very wrong there... also notice how much money they make from the loot they get...

This guys effectively do a genocide between people who do missions, and if CCP not change something, i bet that at this rate of killings they will gone lose a lot of subscribers.

Is very obvious that is way to easy to kill very expensive ships in very cheap ones, and moreover, with new dumb pro-piracy feature of sec status instant boost, using pirate insignias, gankers can get security status back instant, and keep going on suicide gank ships at infinitum as long is very profitable too.

They cannot be stopped in that cheap and fast ships, killrights dont have any use because of same reasons...
So guys take care and brick tank your ships, but that will not help to much as long they use enough destroyers...

A gang of only 12 destroyers did 1500 billions damage in few weeks

Seriously contemplating a career change. xD

You cannot tank a ship against tens of destroyers, and don't need to be afk. Actually is nothing you can do if some gankers decide to suicide destroy your faction battleship.
Your idea is just that we all need to fly dirty cheap ships to not be killed in hisec by people who not risk anything in the process? Better think again because that is a silly solution.

My 10yr old daughter loves helping me gank miners. She giggles every time she gets to press F1.

That statement may not concur with CCP goal of doing a profitable business...
For you is very simple to say that because don't cost you anything, but for CCP every player brought in game mean a lot of moneys spent on advertising (you will see a lot of EVE advert on many websites, and that cost a lot of money...) and their shareholders expect some returns...
So from a business perspective, solution for problems meet by players are a bit more complicated than a simple GTFO, right?

If CCP were to make EVE 100% safe (or large parts of it 100% safe) a lot of players would leave too (me for instance). And with EVE's horrible PVE contents it's not very likely they would be able to replace those players with long lasting safe bears, most would very quickly become bored and leave the game again...

A gang of only 12 destroyers did 1500 billions damage in few weeks:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Megamaks+T44

Look on this and notice that something looks very wrong there... also notice how much money they make from the loot they get...

This guys effectively do a genocide between people who do missions, and if CCP not change something, i bet that at this rate of killings they will gone lose a lot of subscribers.

Is very obvious that is way to easy to kill very expensive ships in very cheap ones...

Ok I am not the greatest player when it comes to PVP. I worked very hard on getting those ships to have 2 people rip through them like they were a newbie ships. You talked about tanking them, any help on setting this up or even a place that explain this better then the evelopedia, I am still trying to figure this site out.

After the shredding of my ships, I found out that they started to attack my mobile tracker beam. I was looking up gas mining on the in-game browser so I heard the attacks and deployed my drones on all my ships before I knew it was 2 players and then my drones attacked them. At this point I was webbed and warp locked. There was nothing I could do a this point. If you have any suggest on where I can research better tanking for my ship and if you would answer your question about why the immune to webs is a bad idea, this would help. Thanks for any help you can throw my way.

Every single one of these ganks could be avoided by following 2 easy steps.

1. Drop a can on warp-in. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

2. Spam the D-Scan. You have a directional scanner that can actually detect combat probes and 12 thrashers. And, wonder of wonders, you can set it so that it tells you when someone is at the warp-in gate to your mission.


High Security Space is a lie.

Accept it and move on.




Also - for all those wearing 'real' monocles here, Good Show!

High Security Space is a lie.

Accept it and move on.

Also - for all those wearing 'real' monocles here, Good Show!

Oh, compared to lowsec and surely nullsec, it's still pretty high in terms of security. However a lot of people seem to automatically equate "High" with "Total" or "Complete" for some resaon.



word.

A lot of the guys they ganked were AFK on gates and silly, inattentive situations like that.

My 10yr old daughter loves helping me gank miners. She giggles every time she gets to press F1.

Parenting: You're doing it right.

I just hope she does not follow the military career.

Military service should be mandatory after highschool.

Military service should be mandatory after highschool.

Funny, because all countries that are like that are way more backwards and problematic than countries where military service is a career. I know.. I am in one of those and you learn absolutely NOTHING, just a feeble attempt to make you less able to think....

Each time one of these threads start my balls boil with great vengeance and furious anger...

Each time one of these threads start my balls boil with great vengeance and furious anger...

- CCP has already listened too much to carebears wanting to turn hisec into a no-risk theme park.
- Risk and non-consensual pew in hisec is what makes EvE special. Get rid of it, and you have just another WoW on your hands.
- WoW is that way ---->

To each their own opinion, but I would urge you to try and understand how good that can be. Military service teaches people respect, discipline, work ethics, integrity, ect. It also provides valuable career training in many cases. It can also teach people the value of working as part of something bigger, seriously the list goes on.

I was a cocky little punk before my first encounter with my drill instructor.... you learn your place pretty fast.

Society as a whole... in the USA anyhow... could stand to learn a few lessons in boot camp.....

Sadly, we cannot afford to do that. Too costly, would wreck force discipline, wreck the schools pipelines, and only about one-in-four legally-permissible candidates is mentally, morally, and physically qualified anyway. In short, the country is up to its ass in the criminal, the lazy, and the ignorant. Ain't enough boot camp in the world to fix *that* problem.

(Yeah, I was Recruiter)

And if you must mine, buy a permit.

This tbh. For many reasons.

At least if you want to be a citizen and be able to hold political office or vote.

I tried to teach her how to do the full gank. But she just wasn't fast enough to work all the controls before facpo would come along and kill my ganker. So can this thread turn into a "nerf facpo" thread now instead of whatever uselss crap it was before? Its for the children.

In EVE, spaceships are consumables. Hell, I "lost" four gank Vexors in an hour and a quarter last night.

Learn that lesson, and you will stop being upset when you are ganked.

At least if you want to be a citizen and be able to hold political office or vote.

I tried to teach her how to do the full gank. But she just wasn't fast enough to work all the controls before facpo would come along and kill my ganker. So can this thread turn into a "nerf facpo" thread now instead of whatever uselss crap it was before? Its for the children.

To each their own opinion, but I would urge you to try and understand how good that can be. Military service teaches people respect, discipline, work ethics, integrity, ect. It also provides valuable career training in many cases. It can also teach people the value of working as part of something bigger, seriously the list goes on.

I was a cocky little punk before my first encounter with my drill instructor.... you learn your place pretty fast.

Society as a whole... in the USA anyhow... could stand to learn a few lessons in boot camp.....

Intelligent discourse without juvenile escalation? If you're not careful you may very well ruin the Carebear Collective's impression that the dwellers of C&P are primarily basement-dwelling sociopaths who's sole existence is driven by the need to drive new players away from the game!

Somethign is wrong.. a Thread in crime an punishment were people are not attacking each others and calling names.

Damm I think we are too disciplined :/

In EVE, spaceships are consumables. Hell, I "lost" four gank Vexors in an hour and a quarter last night.

Learn that lesson, and you will stop being upset when you are ganked.

Funny.. I would do the opposite.. forbid people that server the military from voting. Here in south america we learned alot how BAD they are as administrators and udnerstanding what a good adminstrator is.

A gang of only 12 destroyers did 1500 billions damage in few weeks:

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Megamaks+T44

Look on this and notice that something looks very wrong there... also notice how much money they make from the loot they get...

This guys effectively do a genocide between people who do missions, and if CCP not change something, i bet that at this rate of killings they will gone lose a lot of subscribers.

Is very obvious that is way to easy to kill very expensive ships in very cheap ones, and moreover, with new dumb pro-piracy feature of sec status instant boost, using pirate insignias, gankers can get security status back instant, and keep going on suicide gank ships at infinitum as long is very profitable too.

They cannot be stopped in that cheap and fast ships, killrights dont have any use because of same reasons...
So guys take care and brick tank your ships, but that will not help to much as long they use enough destroyers...

I think this is unbalanced with mining ships. Orca and other mining ships do not have good defenses. I had all my drones from all 3 mining ships and 2 ships took all 3 of my ships, this is not very balanced. I do think that mining ships should be immune from Webifiers and Warp Disruption. I say this because they are slow and can not get away from the bubble of the field before they are taken out. This make it very easy for anyone to take you out. Bottom line there needs to be something out there that would help miners out. Please look into this or if there is something out there, then I have not found it and would like to have someone help me with that. Thanks.

High Sec is actually more dangerous than low or null - in my opinion, it is easier for a more experienced player to use murky/unknown game mechanics to lure unsuspecting players into an engagement. You can get ganked anywhere you go... htfu?

The answer to your needs... warp stabs, pre-align to a station, pay attention and realize that a fight avoided is a fight won when flying an industrial ship.

I think there's a perception problem - you're much more likely to be blpped in Lo or Nul on a per population basis, but the population of Hi is *so* much greater than either Lo or Nul that the absolute numbers of ganks are much higher there.

I find that I don't flinch much in Hi, because the average 'heat' is lower, even though the 'thermal mass' is higher.

Agreed. Expectation Management V is crucial...

^^^
This.
Seriously.

Winning is thwarting your foe - If your foe's intent is to blap your barge, then by surviving, you have won an unequivocal victory. Now, if your opponent is after something else, like maybe interdicting a particular kind of mineral, or to clear a belt for the exclusive use of their own fleet, then you have to decide if you want to 'win' that fight, or if it's OK to merely move and meet your own needs elsewhere.


Now, recently, I've seen a resurgence of some particularly nasty forms of self-entitled whinging by the worst of carebears, and that annoys me mightily. Unto the point of deciding that I was going to return to actively hunting barges - It's a form of tough love, you see. I blap, then educate. Having blown their barge to plasma, I find I generally have their attention. MUCH better than listening to the whining. But, when I go hunting, explicitly looking for idiots to edumacate, I find that there are some targets I can't nail - they have already learned their lessons, from whatever source. And some targets I *could* nail, but are aware, and using their situational-awareness tank, vacate the premisis before I can smoke their hulls.

Both those above categories of miner constitute 'winners.' On the other hand, the bonehead who sits motionless whilst I motor on up, lock, and then annihilate? Losers. Theydeserve their loss. If they'll listen to me afterwards, they may become winners. But most won't listen. So they wind up being prey.

Depends on *what* it is you teach your military, and what your military traditions are. In the USA, the tradition is that Civilians rule, and that the military studies logistics and management; Logistics and management win wars, even if it's not very 'martial.' Oh, make no mistakes - we build world-class warriors, too, but they rarely reach the top ranks. Even in the lower ranks, you need to know how to *manage* before you advance.

[
I've spoken to Cybercrusher via Evemail, although a little pissed at the loss of his ships he's actually willing to learn from the experience and won't be flying lolfit Orcas anymore.

If that holds true then I think we can count him as a win.

"Starship troopers" had the right idea.

"Service guarantees citizenship!"

Yeah, but the thing is that if somebody joins voluntarily, he's going to be motivated to do well in his chosen field. If somebody gets forcefully conscripted, he might not feel the same way.

Back when I got drafted our military was a Soviet-era relic. Since we never actually got deployed to combat anywhere, it had turned into an institution that mostly revolved around griefing its newest members. Be in it long enough and you get to grief people newer than you too! Frankly, I'm amazed that we only had 1 death during 9 months. I know I've thought about gunning down commanding officers on live ammo excersises.

Oh yeah, it doesn't help that if you complain about anything, or if you haven't been in the military "you're not a real man". You gotta suck it up. Be a man. Blah blah. You get the idea.

The problem is.. that is agaisnt democracy and universal suffrage. That means ifyou are a pacifist you are not entitled to your opinion?

If the service woudl be expanded to service to the country, including civil service than ok. But On my eyes, I woudl restrict as in WORK, if you have worked and payed taxes for 4 years, you have a word on how the government should use those taxes.

The problem is.. that is agaisnt democracy and universal suffrage. That means ifyou are a pacifist you are not entitled to your opinion?

If the service woudl be expanded to service to the country, including civil service than ok. But On my eyes, I woudl restrict as in WORK, if you have worked and payed taxes for 4 years, you have a word on how the government should use those taxes.

Absolutely, and I can get behind either version. (I actually think the movie/book had other definitions of "service" as well, but i digress..)

What I AM against is the current belief in the USA that people are OWED something for nothing. Military service is only one route that someone can be an asset to their country... and not to be cliche`... .but JFK did say it best "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" ect....

And while im not a "pacifist", that doesnt mean im looking for the weapons-hot answer to all problems either. Everyone is always entitled to their own methods and beliefs.

Edit:

Psycho, you should run for goddamn office. Seriously.

Careful... carefull.. or we might start borderlinign 30' s Germany...

Edit:

Psycho, you should run for goddamn office. Seriously.

I haven't looked at a heatmap of ships and pods lost recently, but IIRC, last time I did, it was fairly uniform across central New Eden, with a few hotspots in the Faction Warfare hubs.

Sadly, I know exactly of what you speak. Indeed, that's one of my main reasons for opposing conscription. Imposing and *maintaining* discipline and leadership in a conscription force is HARD. Doing so with a force that's largely in peace-time conditions is even harder.

The Soviet system works well with illiterate peasants and campesinos who can be bullied about and aren't expected to know or do much. If you need a technologically-advanced force, it becomes VERY HARD to manage. And bloody expensive, too - Send the conscripts to school, then just about the time they become useful, their time is done, and they leave. To be replaced by another uneducated kid which needs to be sent through the schools pipeline.

Too many folks see military service as a means of correcting everything that parents and primary education screwed-up. Can't work - *doesn't* work. At best, you might take a few rough edges off, but in place you build up resentment against society, and produce a force that really *is* composed of largely of misfits and rejects. Not a recipe for success in the modern age.

Sadly, I know exactly of what you speak. Indeed, that's one of my main reasons for opposing conscription. Imposing and *maintaining* discipline and leadership in a conscription force is HARD. Doing so with a force that's largely in peace-time conditions is even harder.

The Soviet system works well with illiterate peasants and campesinos who can be bullied about and aren't expected to know or do much. If you need a technologically-advanced force, it becomes VERY HARD to manage. And bloody expensive, too - Send the conscripts to school, then just about the time they become useful, their time is done, and they leave. To be replaced by another uneducated kid which needs to be sent through the schools pipeline.

Too many folks see military service as a means of correcting everything that parents and primary education screwed-up. Can't work - *doesn't* work. At best, you might take a few rough edges off, but in place you build up resentment against society, and produce a force that really *is* composed of largely of misfits and rejects. Not a recipe for success in the modern age.

They don't need to manage any criminal flags because they never go under -5 security status, thanks to security tags, and after ganking, all they need to do is to dock their flashy pods for 15 minutes, then just repeat repeat the process...

Is not very easy indeed, but people learn fast, and if you rely just on players incompetence as main fix for game mechanics then something is very wrong...

did you know that going from -5 to 0 security status costs a ton of ISK and that security tags are in limited supply?

the problem is that you seem to believe that you should be able to fly some shiny faction battleship in hisec with zero risk: those destroyer pilots are clearly showing you the error of your ways

mission running is safe enough if you keep an eye out for probes, but abloobloobloo my playstyle

did you know that going from -5 to 0 security status costs a ton of ISK and that security tags are in limited supply?

the problem is that you seem to believe that you should be able to fly some shiny faction battleship in hisec with zero risk: those destroyer pilots are clearly showing you the error of your ways

mission running is safe enough if you keep an eye out for probes, but abloobloobloo my playstyle

Security tags about you talk like an ignorant are in numbers of hundreds on Jita market and other trade hubs, and you can buy anytime transporter and negotiator tags at ~30 mil a piece. That price is nothing, you can make enough money to go from -5 to 0 in one day even as missioner, and if you are a suicide ganker who get billions in loot, security tags price is really a joke...

Nobody want zero risk in high sec for people who do PVE, but also flying an expensive ship must not be a sentence to death once gankers know about you. Because if they want to kill a ship, with actual game mechanics they will manage to do that no matter what you will do.

If you put more tank they will bring more destroyers because is easy to find people for this kind of job when is so easy to repair security status, if you push in a compulsive manner d-scan button every 20 seconds to be safe enough, then they will wait you at undock or at gates, if you use an insta-warp at undock they can scan your spot and wait you there...
Game mechanic is flawed at this point and if you want to wait till hundreds of people will be pushed out of this game, i am very curious if CCP shareholders are same happy to lose customers.

The main niche for almost all new players in EVE are the PVE and mining activities. EVE is a very hard game with a very abrupt learning curve, so as new player he cannot go to do PVP before he learn some part from very complex game mechanics, or he will be crushed and killed till he will give up and move to another game.
If you want to make them life a hell and cut to chance for a lot of players to get used with this game just for the sake of few hundreds of gankers, then go on.

LIES.. the absolute majority of the successful PVPers and long term players staerted in pvp within a few days of joining the game.

I don't know if there are any statistics to justify that, but I have the same impression. I continued to mine/PVE for some time when I was a new player, but I was also joining E-Uni PvP fleets and running around trying to hero tackle war targets within a week of starting the game. My impression is that people who think they need to get all their skills trained up to a certain level before they PvP tend to never feel like they are ready and just keep on PVEing until they get bored and quit.

Also, Si1viu, you completely missed the OPs point. He isn't concerned about new players. He is upset because he thinks that new players in cheap ships should not be able to gank older players in expensive faction battleships.

You cannot tank a ship against tens of destroyers, and don't need to be afk. Actually is nothing you can do if some gankers decide to suicide destroy your faction battleship.
Your idea is just that we all need to fly dirty cheap ships to not be killed in hisec by people who not risk anything in the process? Better think again because that is a silly solution.

Read the minutes of the last CSM meeting. They state the oens that go deep into PVE, the classical way before doign anythign else usually do not even stay long in game.

I hardly think that the minutes from a CSM meeting would qualify as any type of statistical evidence. LOL CSM anyhow.

It depends on the player. I started out as a mission runner. Tried mining, but was so uber-bored by it that I couldnt even stand to make a second trip out to the belts before I was done with it. Moved onto exploration... still thinking i was playing ISK progress quest. It was maybe three months before I got into LEARNING how to pvp with different mechanics and cast away the "skill point requirement" that hedonism bot is referencing (he is spot on with that, btw).

It all depends on the player.

Just in my small opinion the 'price of death' argument is a systemic problem with MMO's in general. The early games were far more brutal in many ways. I know I am dating myself but I remember a particularly bad night in an eq hell level. Set me back a week or more worth of hard effort. But the games (perceived) value was so much higher because of the invested efforts. Not for it being made easy but because it was hard and there was significant loss.

We as a gaming culture are not doing any favors when we push for ever less value to our time.

Just in my small opinion the 'price of death' argument is a systemic problem with MMO's in general. The early games were far more brutal in many ways. I know I am dating myself but I remember a particularly bad night in an eq hell level. Set me back a week or more worth of hard effort. But the games (perceived) value was so much higher because of the invested efforts. Not for it being made easy but because it was hard and there was significant loss.

We as a gaming culture are not doing any favors when we push for ever less value to our time.

Yet another +1

I love the fact that you have to spend lots of time learning skills to fly a particular fit on a ship. I also like that to become effective in PVP you have to gain experience by actually fighting. If CCP were to ever make EvE as easy as some of the other MMO's out there (I can think of one in which your vehicle has tracks and armor) it would be a huge waste. Part of the resaon that I love EvE is because it's not "easy" and there is no instant gratification.

The solution is simple, stop flying ships with stupidly expensive fits that make you worth ganking.

did you know that going from -5 to 0 security status costs a ton of ISK and that security tags are in limited supply?

and if you make it a big enough pain in the arse to gank you they'll also probably move on to an easier target. There's no shortage of targets out there... that is, unless you insist on flying something so valuable it really makes the extra time, effort and coordinating WORTH it.

LIES.. the absolute majority of the successful PVPers and long term players staerted in pvp within a few days of joining the game.

You cannot tank a ship against tens of destroyers, and don't need to be afk. Actually is nothing you can do if some gankers decide to suicide destroy your faction battleship.
Your idea is just that we all need to fly dirty cheap ships to not be killed in hisec by people who not risk anything in the process? Better think again because that is a silly solution.

I think this is unbalanced with mining ships. Orca and other mining ships do not have good defenses. I had all my drones from all 3 mining ships and 2 ships took all 3 of my ships, this is not very balanced. I do think that mining ships should be immune from Webifiers and Warp Disruption. I say this because they are slow and can not get away from the bubble of the field before they are taken out. This make it very easy for anyone to take you out. Bottom line there needs to be something out there that would help miners out. Please look into this or if there is something out there, then I have not found it and would like to have someone help me with that. Thanks.

Read the minutes of the last CSM meeting. They state the oens that go deep into PVE, the classical way before doign anythign else usually do not even stay long in game.

Ehh.. sorta. This is not a single player game. Most players who quit simply burn out due to boredom. Everyone I have ever met IRL who played this game quit because they didn't have fun, because running missions and/or mining wasn't fun. I myself played and quit this game twice before I decided to play despite whatever happens.

So, the idea, rather the hope is that through non-consensual PvP other players who would otherwise spend their time running missions, and/or mining solo, or in a small, probably fail highsec corp and would never learn about other mechanics.. making them better players, will see that there are other avenues to experience. This is how I was first introduced into PvP in Eve Online and it's been a great experience ever since for both losses and kills.

Now, let's assume we find someone who is a mission runner, right? He gets ganked. There will always be one of two reasons why he got ganked. One, he was afk on a gate and someone/people got bored. Or, he had an expensive ship/fittings.. or both. This is besides the point, however, the point I'm making is.. let's say he wasn't interested in joining the ranks of PvP and he didn't like that experience very much. He should, at the very least, look into why he was targeted and make the necessary adjustments to help reduce the possibility of it happening again. The people who don't do this are the idiots. But from my ganking career in this video game I can say that most people who get ganked do change for the better/learn something about Eve.

]in the end it's not such great isk/hour as you think.

But that is the point. If you get into PVP Very soon, you are ready for it, You will not rage quit (at least less likely) when you are ganked. Because you were more in connection with the reality of the game.

Doesnt anyone ever gank the ship that comes to collect the loot?

Doesnt anyone ever gank the ship that comes to collect the loot?

Doesnt anyone ever gank the ship that comes to collect the loot?

I suggest that the OP confess all of his sins to James 315, buy a mining permit, and embrace the Code. He can read more at www.minerbumping.com

Nice scam Mr Mayo. I wonder if I could sell ratting permits in null?

Nice scam Mr Mayo. I wonder if I could sell ratting permits in null?

Nice scam Mr Mayo. I wonder if I could sell ratting permits in null?

Sure, Goons do it all the time.

Really, you didn't know?

Sure, Goons do it all the time.

Really, you didn't know?

What a incredibly amusing thread.

Seriously contemplating a career change. xD

I refer you to a recent post by CCP Falcon

Do you think he would say such a thing if he thought it was a problem?

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=21641247 i want to be able to fitt that orca.

See my corp description in game for a standings list of known gankers.

Set the universe red then biomass. Chuckle . That was clever. Have not heard original content like that before.

Oh, snap. You got me. Is there no end to your sharp wit?

No. There is not.

Something need to be done to stop the massacre of missioning ships and mining barges in hisec

But if there is no end, how can it be sharp?

Philosoraptor'd

They kill just to many, to expensive ships to fast and to easy.
Is game breaking to kill so many expensive ships so easy and is very unbalanced to make tens of billions of isk every day without any risk, as long you can use 500k isk ships to kill ships who worth many billions...
Also a big problem is the new broken pro-piracy feature, who provide suicide gankers with a way to instant fix their security status. That make things much worse because they make a lot of money and can afford to buy insignias and fix their security status, then keep going killing at infinitum without becoming flashy.

Zero risk, hundred of billions destroyed in days, tens of billions profit in days... that is broken game mechanic.

Another one who like to think about himself as being in the top of food chain... Well, you are not, will be always bigger sharks than you in the ocean
Well, you like it or not, many people stay in high sec because they play this game to relax not to compulsive push d-scan button every second like in low sec... Same thing for miners. You cannot force people to play the game in the way you want.

Bigger sharks you say? Doesn't look like you're that bigger shark, now does it.

Fair? I don't think so...

Look on this with a bit more attention: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Megamaks+T44

If you jump a hi-sec gate and a ganker fleet is waiting for you on the other site there is no way you can escape if they are up to killing you.

If you log off they will bump you so dont even bother with it.
Accept it, you will die.

Fair? I don't think so
Fun? I guess...