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Scios Severace Solarian Federation 0	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:01:00 - [1] - Quote As a relatively younger toon I am just starting for my first long train. I have been looking at NaPoc as my first battleship and was wondering if it was the best amarr battleship for pve for a lower sp player. If so, I would love to see a good t2 fit. Additionally, I have heard a lot about the tengu. What are the pros and cons of choosing between something like a tengu or an amarr battleship (also, does the legion suck as bad as others say?)? Finally, what about insurance on the ships?
Riot Girl You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack 2396	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:10:00 - [2] - Quote NApoc needs pretty good skills, tengu is better for lower SP players because it's quicker to train for and it has good tank and damage. Legion is also great but people always say it sucks. I'm not sure why really. Oh god.
Scios Severace Solarian Federation 0	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:22:00 - [3] - Quote I've seen the tengu hailed as the second coming of Christ. How does the legion compare to it?
Sid Crash 73	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:28:00 - [4] - Quote Scios Severace wrote: As a relatively younger toon I am just starting for my first long train. I have been looking at NaPoc as my first battleship and was wondering if it was the best amarr battleship for pve for a lower sp player. If so, I would love to see a good t2 fit. Additionally, I have heard a lot about the tengu. What are the pros and cons of choosing between something like a tengu or an amarr battleship (also, does the legion suck as bad as others say?)? Finally, what about insurance on the ships? First of all you need to realise that a battleship in and of itself isn't a goal, you could play for 10 years, never fly a BS and do fine. If you're looking for a ship that can run lvl 4 missions really well then yes a battleship hull generally makes sense. When do you want to run missions (which is a choice, there's no "must run missions" in EVE) then you have to take damage types into account which depends on where you do PVE. If you do missions in Amarr space then ships using lasers will work fine, if you do missions in Caldari or Gallente space then they're mediocre at best and if you live in Minmatar space they're terrible. So, first make sure that you NEED a BS (based on what you want to be doing) and then account for WHERE you'll be using it in PVE. I'll list the 4 factions and most obvious newbie friendly ships Amarr: (n)apoc, easier to fit than the Abaddon but doesn't perform as well (doesn't really work well on low SP) Armageddon, really good sentry ship that allows for damage type selection (so it works fine everywhere) Caldari: Raven, easy to use allround lvl 4 ship. Not fantastic mission completion times and only "ok" dps Scorpion NI: Exactly the same dps as a normal raven but more tank Gallente: Dominix, awesome sentry ship, works on low SP Minmatar: Maelstrom, good allround ship Typhoon, better missile ship than a Raven but has similar issues The Tengu is not as good at ppl brag about. First of all it's forced into kinetic damage type which is only ideal against Guristas (when only looking at the main npc factions). Against Serpentis and Angels it's mediocre and against Sansha it's outright horrible. Same for its tank really, it works great vs Guristas and serpentis but is kinda problematic against Sansha. Also, it has no drones and that means you waste dps time from your main weapon system to take out frigates which is a waste. The realistic dps isn't brilliant either. On top of all that it's an easy and obvious gank target and would you do missions in Blood raider space it gets neuted out really fast (being a cruiser). So, just forget about the Tengu, it's not brilliant at all (apart from some limited situations like doing anomalies in Guristas space). It's funky and expensive and thus generally people go "cool, hurrrdurrr" without understanding or acknowledging (f)actual game mechanics. For missions the Legion is a pile of shite, dps with HML is terrible and range with HAM is also terrible. Avoid.
Batelle Komm susser Tod 1213	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:38:00 - [5] - Quote napoc is arguably one of the best amarr bs for low sp, but like most laser ships, kinda sucks against non-em weak enemies. Tengu is the most versatile pve ship in the game. It has a monstrous tank, however it needs good missile skills to shine, and is relatively weaker against sansha and blood raider compared to other rat factions. It is a good level 4 runner, but battleships are generally better for level 4s. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Scios Severace Solarian Federation 0	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:25:00 - [6] - Quote What other options would I have with a NaPoc rather than missions?
Antillie Sa'Kan Forging Industries Silent Infinity 325	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:38:00 - [7] - Quote The NaPoc? Not much. Faction BS hulls are generally not flown in PVP. However the skills would translate over to a PVP Abaddon or Apoc quite well. However I would recommend the Punisher or Omen for learning PVP.
Sid Crash 73	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:17:00 - [8] - Quote Realistically Battleships aren't used much at all outside missions, incursions and 0.0 fleet combat. A Napoc wouldn't be used for anything other than missions (and even there it's not the best option because that'd the Abaddon, Nightmare or Paladin). It's just a Napoc that requires less SP to work than the Abaddon while not performing at the same level. All sounds very negative but that's not the issue, EVE generally doesn't have a "natural progression" where bigger automatically means better. Everything has a role, a place and a counter so "biggest I could find" generally tends to be the wrong way to choose a ship :) If you're looking for an answer to the "what is the best way to get ahead, plan ahead and get into the game while choosing missions as main income and flying Amarr" then the answer would probably be "get Amarr BS to level 4, then swap to int/mem based remap, train up sentry drones and get a sentry Geddon". Partly because you need drones any way and mostly because it also allows you to train up your support skills (which are vital) really fast. It's not the most fun way of approaching it, also because you won't actually use lasers much for a while, but it sure is the most effective and efficient. Up to you to decide what you find more important; efficiency or personal preference. Both are valid choices as long as you consciously MADE that choice.
Liam Inkuras Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 821	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:42:00 - [9] - Quote Ishtar, and simply blitz the missions, or speed tank those you can't. I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions 1993	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:18:00 - [10] - Quote Sid Crash wrote: The Tengu is not as good at ppl brag about. First of all it's forced into kinetic damage type which is only ideal against Guristas (when only looking at the main npc factions). Against Serpentis and Angels it's mediocre and against Sansha it's outright horrible. Nitpick: the vast majority of Serpentis ships are weakest against kinetic damage. Unless you're specifically talking about the Phi Overseer, kinetic is the preferred damage type, not thermal. So Tengus are fine there.
CMD Ishikawa Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 88	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:26:00 - [11] - Quote Like someone said before there are not stone writen rules on EVE about what you should fly and how... Usually battleships are used for missions, and the times they are used in pvp are in gangs almost never solo. For PVE the sentry battleships are awesome and good for low sp chars Dominix or Armageddon and the drone skills will help you with almost all ships you'll fly.
Soldarius Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore 470	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:33:00 - [12] - Quote I'm going to make an assumption and assume you are fairly new to Eve still. I think this because you (OP) asked about your first BS and immediately went for the bling faction boat. Please keep in mind that ability to sit in a ship does not confer the ability to use it well. I strongly suggest you try out a T1 BS first. Someone with low skills that sits into a BS too early is more likely to get ganked, and definitely more likely to lose it to rats, which would be very embarrasing. Don't fly anything you can't afford to lose. Free Ripley Weaver!
Silvetica Dian Manson Family Advent of Fate 572	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:41:00 - [13] - Quote As others have said ....first what do you want it for? BS's are good for level 4 missions and not much else (protip missions are one of the dullest bits of eve). If you select a lazor boat you will have issues with many rat types due to non selectable damage. Angel extravaganza will be a nightmare when you want explosive damage. On the plus side large lazor skills are needed for the nightmare which is much loved in incursions. The tengu imo is not a great mission ship as it has too short a range for many missions. The tengu is amazing for low and null plexing esp in gurista space mainly due to the ability to travel cloaky nullified and then refit in system to combat subsystems. the raven is a very popular lvl 4 starter ship because hostiles will always be in range and you can always shoot their weakest resist. The ishtar is OP for missions, plexing and PVP and no one ever regretted training for it. anyway try what you want and don't worry if you trained a bunch of stuff you might not need for now. the worst bits of eve are when you realise you wasted training for something that you realise you don't need but the bit people forget is that what they do in Eve changes over time and we all end up cross training anyway. here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY
Scios Severace Solarian Federation 0	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:06:00 - [14] - Quote So, train Caldari and ignore amarr?
Silvetica Dian Manson Family Advent of Fate 572	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:21:00 - [15] - Quote gallente is awesome for pve and pvp. caldari are great for pve and have some decent pvp ships. minmatar are great for pvp and some pve. amarr have some great pvp ships and have some ok pve ships which are limited to rat types. you will either get into some form of pvp (market , ganking or traditional) or quit eve anyway here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY
Antillie Sa'Kan Forging Industries Silent Infinity 328	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:31:00 - [16] - Quote Amarr are fine. They have a plethora of great PVP hulls across every size class and they are good at PVE as well. The Armageddon is a solid PVE boat when you are shooting rats that aren't weak to EM/Thermal. And people tend to forget about the Khanid ship line when blitzing lower level missions. Their dread is acceptable and of course there is the almighty Archon.
Anna Lytical Laboratoires Armageddon 1121 Ventures 0	Posted - 2014.01.13 21:40:00 - [17] - Quote Scios Severace wrote: I've seen the tengu hailed as the second coming of Christ. How does the legion compare to it? It's only the Second Coming when seen in the light of the parish priest abuses, religious fanaticism, and right-wing hypocrisy. Tengu isn't all that anymore, and if you're on the Amarr track (armor and lazors) it's rediculous to shift to missiles and shield to train for a ship whose glory lies in the past. Stick to your NaPoc plan, and maybe put your sites on Nightmare. It's a monster.
Scios Severace Solarian Federation 0	Posted - 2014.01.13 21:54:00 - [18] - Quote Anna Lytical wrote: Scios Severace wrote: I've seen the tengu hailed as the second coming of Christ. How does the legion compare to it? It's only the Second Coming when seen in the light of the parish priest abuses, religious fanaticism, and right-wing hypocrisy. Tengu isn't all that anymore, and if you're on the Amarr track (armor and lazors) it's rediculous to shift to missiles and shield to train for a ship whose glory lies in the past. Stick to your NaPoc plan, and maybe put your sites on Nightmare. It's a monster. Thanks for that, I am trying to bling out with the NaPoc but I won't touch it till I t2 gun and tank it. I would appreciate some fitting help though, and why do you say the tengu isn't all that anymore?
Satori Sartori X-Type Prospectors 2	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:34:00 - [19] - Quote Armageddon Navy Issue can pull out 1000+ DPS, but it's very hard to get cap stable, and it takes some sentry skills (at least use Imperial Navy Curators if you can't use t2 sentries). I use it myself, it's a pretty good ship, but it takes some micro-management (sentries, swapping ammo if you can't use scorch, cap management).
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Ragnarok. 112	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:18:00 - [20] - Quote your first choice should be if you want to train missiles or not. the problem is missile support skills work only for missiles while gun support skills work for lasers projectiles and hybrids. missiles are a great pve platform but has limited uses in pvp and even some pve content (incursions). your second choice is how are you going to make your isk you need, be it for pvp ships or plexing your account. granted as a new player you dont know what is out there so the advice to grab a t2 large gun and a battleship 4 skill and then focus on support and drone skills is great. you can then explore eve while training skills you will always use and not waste any time on skills you might not need in your chosen isk/fun making activity. that said napoc missioning in amarr space is perfectly fine and you will be flying one of the sexiest ships known to mankind. you can then always train into a paladin for pure lv4 ownage or nightmare for incurtions.
Ralph King-Griffin Var Foundation inc. 243	Posted - 2014.01.14 12:30:00 - [21] - Quote Scios Severace wrote: Anna Lytical wrote: Scios Severace wrote: I've seen the tengu hailed as the second coming of Christ. How does the legion compare to it? It's only the Second Coming when seen in the light of the parish priest abuses, religious fanaticism, and right-wing hypocrisy. Tengu isn't all that anymore, and if you're on the Amarr track (armor and lazors) it's rediculous to shift to missiles and shield to train for a ship whose glory lies in the past. Stick to your NaPoc plan, and maybe put your sites on Nightmare. It's a monster. Thanks for that, I am trying to bling out with the NaPoc but I won't touch it till I t2 gun and tank it. I would appreciate some fitting help though, and why do you say the tengu isn't all that anymore? high meta guns are perfectly fine with faction crystals , t2 tank is a must. iv been sitting in an npoc for the last 4-6 months, lovely ship, much lovlier with adv wepon upgrade-5 though. get used to the t1 hull for a couple of weeks, you will lose a couple of them, but you can afford to lose 3-4 of them for the price of an npoc. If in doubt...do...excessively.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1067	Posted - 2014.01.14 14:49:00 - [22] - Quote Scios Severace wrote: As a relatively younger toon I am just starting for my first long train. I have been looking at NaPoc as my first battleship and was wondering if it was the best amarr battleship for pve for a lower sp player. If so, I would love to see a good t2 fit. Additionally, I have heard a lot about the tengu. What are the pros and cons of choosing between something like a tengu or an amarr battleship (also, does the legion suck as bad as others say?)? Finally, what about insurance on the ships? How young are you? Usually peopel make the mistake of goign TOO EARLY for battleships. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Bastion Arzi Paragraph 22 Aureus Alae 90	Posted - 2014.01.14 15:49:00 - [23] - Quote Here is a fit for the apoc which is similar to the fit i started out with. Its quite noob freindly in that its cap stable with the AB off. If your set on going for the apoc i'd say dont bother flying it in level 4 missions till u get t2 pulse lasers. Scorch is a massive upgrade over t1 crystals. Also if you get scorch then you can use range as ur tank in many missions negating the need for a t2 tank. Just swap out any modules u cant use t2 yet for the meta 4 type (except the lasers. get t2 lasers). [Apocalypse, Unnamed loadout] Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Capacitor Power Relay II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Experimental 100MN Afterburner I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II There are other excellent fits that make use of cap boosters and tc's instead of cap rechargers in the mids. But im trying to post an easy going fit that doesn't require you to manage too many modules.
Speedkermit Damo Demonic Retribution Nullsec Ninjas 219	Posted - 2014.01.14 17:31:00 - [24] - Quote Bastion Arzi wrote: Here is a fit for the apoc which is similar to the fit i started out with. Its quite noob freindly in that its cap stable with the AB off. If your set on going for the apoc i'd say dont bother flying it in level 4 missions till u get t2 pulse lasers. Scorch is a massive upgrade over t1 crystals. Also if you get scorch then you can use range as ur tank in many missions negating the need for a t2 tank. Just swap out any modules u cant use t2 yet for the meta 4 type (except the lasers. get t2 lasers). [Apocalypse, Unnamed loadout] Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Capacitor Power Relay II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Experimental 100MN Afterburner I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II There are other excellent fits that make use of cap boosters and tc's instead of cap rechargers in the mids. But im trying to post an easy going fit that doesn't require you to manage too many modules. I was just wondering what range scorch hits out to with that fit? Don't Panic.
Odithia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2014.01.14 17:41:00 - [25] - Quote For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS. For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon. Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited. I suggest you go for any other race.
Sid Crash 80	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:36:00 - [26] - Quote Speedkermit Damo wrote: Bastion Arzi wrote: Here is a fit for the apoc which is similar to the fit i started out with. Its quite noob freindly in that its cap stable with the AB off. If your set on going for the apoc i'd say dont bother flying it in level 4 missions till u get t2 pulse lasers. Scorch is a massive upgrade over t1 crystals. Also if you get scorch then you can use range as ur tank in many missions negating the need for a t2 tank. Just swap out any modules u cant use t2 yet for the meta 4 type (except the lasers. get t2 lasers). [Apocalypse, Unnamed loadout] Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Capacitor Power Relay II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Experimental 100MN Afterburner I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II There are other excellent fits that make use of cap boosters and tc's instead of cap rechargers in the mids. But im trying to post an easy going fit that doesn't require you to manage too many modules. I was just wondering what range scorch hits out to with that fit? You don't have to wonder, the range can be qualified as "terrible", same for the dps. It's a horrible fit.
Bastion Arzi Paragraph 22 Aureus Alae 90	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:44:00 - [27] - Quote range is 53km optimal and 62.6km falloff (scorch) Sid Crash wrote: You don't have to wonder, the range can be qualified as "terrible", same for the dps. It's a horrible fit. can u please explain why this is a bad fit? Ive used it in several level 4 missions and its turned out just fine.
Scios Severace Solarian Federation 0	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:52:00 - [28] - Quote I would really appreciate a decent t2 navy apoc fit
Scios Severace Solarian Federation 0	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:59:00 - [29] - Quote Or would the navy geddon be better?
Batelle Komm susser Tod 1237	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:05:00 - [30] - Quote Scios Severace wrote: Or would the navy geddon be better? Napoc would be better. Navy Geddon needs both good drone skills and good laser skills. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Sid Crash 81	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:25:00 - [31] - Quote Bastion Arzi wrote: range is 53km optimal and 62.6km falloff (scorch) Sid Crash wrote: You don't have to wonder, the range can be qualified as "terrible", same for the dps. It's a horrible fit. can u please explain why this is a bad fit? Ive used it in several level 4 missions and its turned out just fine. The optimal range as such isn't so bad, but the ship is... below par as it lacks any sort of serious dps. On top of that it's mission tracking computers which, when switched to tracking scripts, massively help applied dps. It's also low on tank. You're just wasting too many slots on cap issues, slots that help your dps, your tracking and your tank. And the result of all that is that you take a whole lot longer to complete a mission resulting in less income. I works, sure, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be better. You're wasting a lot of time (and subsequently money) you could have spent better on stuff you enjoy doing. A decently fit Abaddon would easily do 200+ dps more with scorch (using non faction heat sinks), while having more overall range and, if need be, more tracking as well... while tanking more. Cap stable fits suck for efficiency, cap stable laser ships even more so.
Bastion Arzi Paragraph 22 Aureus Alae 90	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:09:00 - [32] - Quote Sid Crash wrote: The optimal range as such isn't so bad, but the ship is... below par as it lacks any sort of serious dps. On top of that it's mission tracking computers which, when switched to tracking scripts, massively help applied dps. It's also low on tank. You're just wasting too many slots on cap issues, slots that help your dps, your tracking and your tank. And the result of all that is that you take a whole lot longer to complete a mission resulting in less income. I works, sure, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be better. You're wasting a lot of time (and subsequently money) you could have spent better on stuff you enjoy doing. A decently fit Abaddon would easily do 200+ dps more with scorch (using non faction heat sinks), while having more overall range and, if need be, more tracking as well... while tanking more. Cap stable fits suck for efficiency, cap stable laser ships even more so. Well u cant have more dps and more tank unless your gonna change the rigs as well. would you care to show us what a decently fitted apoc looks like? will it be something with tracking computers and a capacitor booster, like mentioned in my first post? The abbadon is bonused for damage and tank iirc. of course its gonna out damage and out tank the apoc but if they were both fit pretty much the same way the apoc is gonna have more range than the abbadon and that range is ur tank. Im not sure if the op is new to level 4 missions or not. he said this toon is young making me think he might be an alt or something. The abbadon takes decent skills to fly well, the apoc is more of an entry level bs imo and might be more appropriate for a low sp toon. At ranges of 50- 60km in PVE your tracking doesnt really matter that much. Enemies tend to approach you with low to 0 transversal so ur guns blap them anyway. with the fit posted above i can hit frigs as long as they are roughly 20km or more away iirc. I also wonder if the time and subsequent money that i lose using this fit over something with a cap booster will amount to the isk i spend on cap booster charges to keep my guns shooting if i were to use a cap booster. although normal cap boosters are cheap the abbadon sucks cap dry quickly
Sid Crash 83	Posted - 2014.01.15 10:52:00 - [33] - Quote Check this thread for fits, explanations and graphs. A (N)apoc fit will effectively be a mirror or that Abaddon fit (of course changed a bit to suit the ship). Yes you lose some isk by having to use cap boosters but it's not like you need a ton of them, even if you'd use 10 per mission (which you won't) it costs a total of 50k, EASILY made up for by the vastly increased performance. Not fitting CCC rigs means you can fit nano pumps and THAT means you have more tank resulting in fitting more heat sinks. Not wasting mid slots on cap rechargers means you can fit tracking comps which means you can use shorter range crystals at longer range and you when you have to shoot orbiting targets you track better, your applied dps will be SO much better. If you apply less dps you waste more time meaning you have to tank more and make less money. On top of that Cap stable fits require pilots to have good cap related skills otherwise they don't work, a cap boosted fit still works fine and you just burn a few more cap boosters so it's actually BETTER for low SP pilots. Cap boosted fit >>> recharge stable fit :) The only reason to use recharge fits is if you have a dodgy internet connection or you have to go AFK often and unannounced, otherwise it's just silly tbh.
Ralph King-Griffin Var Foundation inc. 249	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:20:00 - [34] - Quote Scios Severace wrote: I would really appreciate a decent t2 navy apoc fit hows this . It dosent have t2 guns but that's a small matter. If in doubt...do...excessively.
Bastion Arzi Paragraph 22 Aureus Alae 90	Posted - 2014.01.15 11:20:00 - [35] - Quote Sid Crash wrote: Check this thread for fits, explanations and graphs. A (N)apoc fit will effectively be a mirror or that Abaddon fit (of course changed a bit to suit the ship). Yes you lose some isk by having to use cap boosters but it's not like you need a ton of them, even if you'd use 10 per mission (which you won't) it costs a total of 50k, EASILY made up for by the vastly increased performance. Not fitting CCC rigs means you can fit nano pumps and THAT means you have more tank resulting in fitting more heat sinks. Not wasting mid slots on cap rechargers means you can fit tracking comps which means you can use shorter range crystals at longer range and you when you have to shoot orbiting targets you track better, your applied dps will be SO much better. If you apply less dps you waste more time meaning you have to tank more and make less money. On top of that Cap stable fits require pilots to have good cap related skills otherwise they don't work, a cap boosted fit still works fine and you just burn a few more cap boosters so it's actually BETTER for low SP pilots. Cap boosted fit >>> recharge stable fit :) The only reason to use recharge fits is if you have a dodgy internet connection or you have to go AFK often and unannounced, otherwise it's just silly tbh. Fair enough. cant argue with that
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1076	Posted - 2014.01.15 14:40:00 - [36] - Quote Odithia wrote: For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS. For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon. Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited. I suggest you go for any other race. Considering the paladin is by FAR the most efficient marauder.. your advice fails. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Sid Crash 83	Posted - 2014.01.15 16:00:00 - [37] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Odithia wrote: For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS. For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon. Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited. I suggest you go for any other race. Considering the paladin is by FAR the most efficient marauder.. your advice fails. It isn't, due to damage types.
Odithia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2014.01.15 16:10:00 - [38] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Odithia wrote: For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS. For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon. Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited. I suggest you go for any other race. Considering the paladin is by FAR the most efficient marauder.. your advice fails. Try enjoying your most efficient marauder against Angel, Gurristas or even Serpentis. I bet a T2 Dominix/Raven/Maelstrom will do much better.
Lina Theist Rosendal Research and Development 35	Posted - 2014.01.15 16:22:00 - [39] - Quote Scios Severace wrote: As a relatively younger toon I am just starting for my first long train. I have been looking at NaPoc as my first battleship and was wondering if it was the best amarr battleship for pve for a lower sp player. If so, I would love to see a good t2 fit. Additionally, I have heard a lot about the tengu. What are the pros and cons of choosing between something like a tengu or an amarr battleship (also, does the legion suck as bad as others say?)? Finally, what about insurance on the ships? If you're mainly interested in carebearing I'd definitely recommend caldari. When I first set out I chose caldari but trained hybrids for some stupid as **** reason. Missiles are pretty damn cool, and both of the navy battleships are really good, as well as just a normal Raven or Tengu. It all depends on what you want to do, you wont burn any bridges, but if you want to get to your end-game as fast as possible, just say what you aim for and what you want to do in the meantime
Ralph King-Griffin Var Foundation inc. 249	Posted - 2014.01.15 16:26:00 - [40] - Quote Odithia wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Odithia wrote: For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS. For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon. Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited. I suggest you go for any other race. Considering the paladin is by FAR the most efficient marauder.. your advice fails. Try enjoying your most efficient marauder against Angel, Gurristas or even Serpentis. I bet a T2 Dominix/Raven/Maelstrom will do much better. Actually not as bad as you might imagine. If in doubt...do...excessively.
Incindir Mauser Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 344	Posted - 2014.01.15 16:50:00 - [41] - Quote I you are insistent with using Amarr BS and related skills, train straight for a Paladin Marauder as it's the most efficient BS in terms of PvE. For PvP you'd be looking at something like a Neut/Drones Armageddon. A decent balance would be to train for projectiles and Minmatar battleships as the Maelstrom and Vargur are both really flexible platforms. Drone Dominix is the preferred AFK missioning boat, and Blaster Megatrons can be a prickly proposition. Caldari BS are nearly worthless in the PvP department, save for the Rohk in NS fleet doctrines. Raven and Raven Navy Issue are stock missioning boats.
Scios Severace Solarian Federation 0	Posted - 2014.01.15 17:10:00 - [42] - Quote How does this look for a NaPoc fit? 8x mega Pulse 2 with scorch 2x tracking computer 2 optimal range Cap Recharger 2 100mn afterburner 2 4x heat sink 2 Large armor repair 2 2x armor em hardener 2 Armor thermic hardener 2 Large discharge elutriation 2 Large algid energy administration 2 Large ancillary current router 2
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1077	Posted - 2014.01.15 17:18:00 - [43] - Quote Odithia wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Odithia wrote: For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS. For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon. Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited. I suggest you go for any other race. Considering the paladin is by FAR the most efficient marauder.. your advice fails. Try enjoying your most efficient marauder against Angel, Gurristas or even Serpentis. I bet a T2 Dominix/Raven/Maelstrom will do much better. Just selet a GOOD agent.. hint the best isk hour agent currently only gives you 1 mission against angels and ZERo against guristas. The paladin is still faster than vargur and kronos agaisnt serpentis. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Ragnarok. 115	Posted - 2014.01.15 17:28:00 - [44] - Quote The reason the paladin is so damn good is all due to scorch and the bastion module. It allows you to fit a short range high dps weapon system and do high dps at extreme ranges while being able to instantly switch out to face melting dps at close range. The bastion module just emphasizes its range and makes even conflag into a medium range weapon because of how unbalanced the range bonus is on the bastion (same amount of optimal and falloff bonus as opposed to every single other module ever that gives half of the falloff in optimal.) Regardless the projection and high dps of scorch puts the paladin at least on par with the other marauders with regards to applied dps on everything except blood/sansha where it beats everything else into the ground. It's a good missionboat and amarr is a good race to train into for pvp.
erg cz Sliperer 55	Posted - 2014.01.16 12:33:00 - [45] - Quote Scios Severace wrote: How does this look for a NaPoc fit? 8x mega Pulse 2 with scorch 2x tracking computer 2 optimal range Cap Recharger 2 100mn afterburner 2 4x heat sink 2 Large armor repair 2 2x armor em hardener 2 Armor thermic hardener 2 Large discharge elutriation 2 Large algid energy administration 2 Large ancillary current router 2 Very often in L4 missions you need to use micro jump drive. Since we will get it's deployable version you will need few of those if you insist on fit like this. And this deployable can not be scoped back to cargo hold. So you will lose money. I am gallente pilot like you, who has choosen to use amarr BS for L4 missions. Because they do not require additional ammo costs and has very good reload times. Plus I was very disapointed trying to use missiles in L3 missions. I decided to go after Navy armageddon, since I have most skill points in drones. It works fine against blood raiders, but I get missions against angels A LOT. Even though I do missions in Amarr space. And here I cut through such missions only thanks to 5 explosive sentry drones and brutal force of tachyon lasers. NApoc will have less sentry drones and you do not want to use tachyons. So I am not sure if this will work that good even in Amarr space in the long run. Angels are vulnerable also to kinetic damage, so if you can use hybrid turrets (as gallente you should have at least small hybrid turrets) Armageddon or Dominix can probably be better mission runners, than Navy Armageddon or Navy apocalypse. Because they have bonuses for drones and therefore you can fit what ever turret (even launchers on Armageddon), adjusting your damage type to mission. Navy ships have better tank and can fit bigger guns...
Sid Crash 88	Posted - 2014.01.16 12:54:00 - [46] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: The reason the paladin is so damn good is all due to scorch and the bastion module. It allows you to fit a short range high dps weapon system and do high dps at extreme ranges while being able to instantly switch out to face melting dps at close range. The bastion module just emphasizes its range and makes even conflag into a medium range weapon because of how unbalanced the range bonus is on the bastion (same amount of optimal and falloff bonus as opposed to every single other module ever that gives half of the falloff in optimal.) Regardless the projection and high dps of scorch puts the paladin at least on par with the other marauders with regards to applied dps on everything except blood/sansha where it beats everything else into the ground. It's a good missionboat and amarr is a good race to train into for pvp. Scorch is mostly EM which sucks balls against Serp and Guristas. That's the reason Beam Pallies make sense, because they can use shorter range crystals which have a higher thermal damage component but it still sucks. erg cz wrote: Very often in L4 missions you need to use micro jump drive. What is it with people talking so much bullshit? MJD is easily the most over rated, over used, nonsense module. The amount if times it's actually useful is VERY limited.
Kalihira Ultramar Independent Contracting 16	Posted - 2014.01.16 13:12:00 - [47] - Quote Sid stop talking nonsense. MJD is usefull enough if you have a fit based around it.
Bastion Arzi Paragraph 22 Aureus Alae 90	Posted - 2014.01.16 13:17:00 - [48] - Quote Sry Sid but I have to disagree with u there. Mjd is awesome I don't know about on normal bs but on marauders it saves me time and hassle. Being a vargur pilot I can move myself into low falloff in several missions with the mjd. Increasing my dps (800's) and decreasing mission completion times. Elite frigs get under my guns np jump away load barrage while mjd is spooling. As soon as I land ball frigs from 90 km. 50 seconds later mjd back in. It's a wonderful device. And there at several missions where enemies are 70-100 km away.
Sid Crash 88	Posted - 2014.01.16 13:32:00 - [49] - Quote on MARAUDERS which are based on short range weapons (or in case of the vargur falloff) yes, they're great, and if you see a fit like that of mine it'll have MJD. A 425 Kronos does not need MJD. But 9 times out of 10 People fit them because they're "scared" of getting shorter range where they have to tank and thus they choose.... CHOOSE to run away 100km where they're forced to use low dps ammo or have massive flight time on their missiles meaning they lose a lot of time switching targets, resulting in terrible performance.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1080	Posted - 2014.01.16 14:07:00 - [50] - Quote Sid Crash wrote: Anize Oramara wrote: The reason the paladin is so damn good is all due to scorch and the bastion module. It allows you to fit a short range high dps weapon system and do high dps at extreme ranges while being able to instantly switch out to face melting dps at close range. The bastion module just emphasizes its range and makes even conflag into a medium range weapon because of how unbalanced the range bonus is on the bastion (same amount of optimal and falloff bonus as opposed to every single other module ever that gives half of the falloff in optimal.) Regardless the projection and high dps of scorch puts the paladin at least on par with the other marauders with regards to applied dps on everything except blood/sansha where it beats everything else into the ground. It's a good missionboat and amarr is a good race to train into for pvp. Scorch is mostly EM which sucks balls against Serp and Guristas. That's the reason Beam Pallies make sense, because they can use shorter range crystals which have a higher thermal damage component but it still sucks. erg cz wrote: Very often in L4 missions you need to use micro jump drive. What is it with people talking so much bullshit? MJD is easily the most over rated, over used, nonsense module. The amount if times it's actually useful is VERY limited. not at all. A proper paladin for starters will not use scorch with pulse. Will use TACHYONS with navy MF, hitting at 70+ km. only 3 low slots not focused on DAMAGE and damage projection. MJD to get into perfect position where you hit for full damage ALL targets, ignoreing all tracking and where you get ZERO incomming damage. Also again. WHY in hell you runnign missions agaisnt guristas? If you are not runnign missions in apanake you are doign it all wrong! HIghes isk/h, all missions but 2 are against BR. 1 is agaisnt angels other against serpentis. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1080	Posted - 2014.01.16 14:09:00 - [51] - Quote Sid Crash wrote: on MARAUDERS which are based on short range weapons (or in case of the vargur falloff) yes, they're great, and if you see a fit like that of mine it'll have MJD. A 425 Kronos does not need MJD. But 9 times out of 10 People fit them because they're "scared" of getting shorter range where they have to tank and thus they choose.... CHOOSE to run away 100km where they're forced to use low dps ammo or have massive flight time on their missiles meaning they lose a lot of time switching targets, resulting in terrible performance. My tachyon paladin does 1 K dps (no drones included) at 65 KM. And 800 dps at 100 km. That is FAR more than what a vargur does at 20 km "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Sid Crash 88	Posted - 2014.01.16 14:22:00 - [52] - Quote So you choose to lose 200 dps for no reason, while frantically paying through the nose for 5% implants. Also, if you're fighting Serp or Guristas 2/3rd of that 800 dps is EM, which is terrible :)

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