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ENCOUNTER SURVEILLANCE SYSTEM - How it should work IMO

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Bald Beauty Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2014.01.15 00:35:00 - [1] - Quote Credit to CCP for trying to come up with conflict drivers but the current suggested mechanics for the thing suck. Three major flaws immediately spring to mind - 1) owners of a system only have one minute to try and stop somebody escaping with the loot. 2) the locals could just position a no skill alt at the ESS and take the money every time a neutral or hostile enters system 3) The reward for putting one up isn't worth it. If I was going to bring in such a device I'd use it at the mechanism which a Corp taxes it's own members. Say the Corp sets a 15% tax rate - when a ESS is deployed the Corp or Alliance deploying the unit starts collecting the tax revenue. The amount goes up by 1% per day so in this example after 15 days the Corp will be getting it's full 15% Tax from it's members. Thus the basic income of the individual is no worse off and at Corp level it will soon get back to normal. The incentive in deploying the device comes from interest payments. Once the ESS reaches 100% for every week the amount of isk is left in the pot the amount is 'invested' and increases by 2%. Obviously the longer you are able or willing to leave the pot the more your money 'investment' pays out. The person who anchors the ESS gives it a password, which is automatically mail sent to the CEO and Directors of the Corp. Anybody else can break into the ESS and loot it by hacking into it, thus having to complete one of those mini-games like when doing relic sites which should last between 2-5 minutes dependent on luck and skills. Or you could even bring in a brand new skill 'Security Hacking' and a specific module needed. Once an attempted hack is started there is a warning signal to everybody in that system only. If somebody successfully hacks into the ESS it results in an instant isk transfer to his wallet and a drop of items known as 'interest money'. This 'interest money' created by these ESS units is issued in new forms of currency, Empire tokens of each race, depending upon which racial ESS is anchored in system. At first you could just have these isk tokens redeemable in a specific Faction NPC bank as isk, but the mere existance of these faction tokens could potentially open up a whole new world of banking and exchange rates! You could have a whole expansion based upon trade in these currencies, new skills needed, making them usable to pay Sovereignty/Corp taxes in the specific Empire regions, perhaps needed to use when making LP transactions with NPC corps of each Empire etc. You could also expand the idea into Low Sec and High Sec with some thought and perhaps tie it in with FW, for example Anyway just my initial observations but as they are currently being talked about I can't see anybody ever deploying them.
trader joes Ichinumi Straightedge and Compass Industrial The Crimson Tower 11	Posted - 2014.01.15 00:50:00 - [2] - Quote Honestly, your idea is pretty bad. Nothing to stop someone from logging on when nobody else is online and taking it.
Bald Beauty Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2014.01.15 01:01:00 - [3] - Quote trader joes Ichinumi wrote: Honestly, your idea is pretty bad. Nothing to stop someone from logging on when nobody else is online and taking it. Fair comment. So that would be a major flaw. How about when you crack the code it starts a de-activation that takes an hour to unwind and also if anybody in Corp or Alliance can get to it can 'freeze' the account as it were for 24 hours till a director or CEO can reset? Of course resetting would take say 2 minutes, hopefully ending in some PvP as the people trying to rob it have to try and stop you? You could just place them in major systems so they are easy to defend. Anyway I can see the motive behind the ESS and I just have the vision of a space bank robber trying to break into a corporate vault, hopefully ending in a shoot out! :)
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 8380	Posted - 2014.01.15 01:19:00 - [4] - Quote I think the ESS should work by not existing. My EVE Videos
DNSBLACK Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 534	Posted - 2014.01.15 01:25:00 - [5] - Quote the thing is a waste of time and dumb and the dev who thought it up needs to be retrained period
Bel Tika Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's 204	Posted - 2014.01.15 01:25:00 - [6] - Quote got to agree with james on this one, this ESS seems like a waste of the limited dev time an resources that could have been spent on something else
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 158	Posted - 2014.01.15 01:38:00 - [7] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I think the ESS should work by not existing. This. Seems like one to the dumbest ideas in a game I have seen for a long time. Maybe it will turn out alright after 1.1 is released, but currently on paper it just looks idiotic.
Arkady Romanov GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 25	Posted - 2014.01.15 01:50:00 - [8] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I think the ESS should work by not existing. Not empty quoting.
Tauranon Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 624	Posted - 2014.01.15 01:55:00 - [9] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I think the ESS should work by not existing. This may become one of the most spacebook liked posts ever.
Anton Menges Saddat EXPCS Corp SpaceMonkey's Alliance 58	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:02:00 - [10] - Quote DNSBLACK wrote: the thing is a waste of time and dumb and the dev who thought it up needs to be retrained period You're more generous than I am. I'd be suggesting they look for a new job.
stoicfaux 3834	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:14:00 - [11] - Quote CCP is looking to introduce isk sinks in the form of consumables, e.g. deployables, and to gradually reduce isk faucets. Think slowly boiling the frog in how they are introducing these ideas in small doses. /tinfoil WASABI: -áWarp Speed Module
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 158	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:18:00 - [12] - Quote Anton Menges Saddat wrote: You're more generous than I am. I'd be suggesting they look for a new job. I'll look on the bright side and assume it was one of those 'CEO ideas' that chief executives sometimes have. Hilmar: Hey guys I have this brilliant idea for a new deployable unit for Rubicon 1.1 Devs: Yes boss, what is it Hilmar: Well it's a deployable bounty scimming system to encourage conflict in nullsec. I call it the ESS Devs: Yes boss, that sounds like a great idea ...Later that day... Dev 1: What the hell is this thing Dev 2: Don't know, but the boss wants it and what he wants, he gets. Dev 1: Ok, but the players won't like it. They'll see all the flaws in it immediately Dev 2: Sure, just don't tell Hilmar that. We'll just tell him they love it. Dev 1: Ok, sounds good.
Theodoric Darkwind PonyWaffe Insidious Empire 301	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:13:00 - [13] - Quote ESS is basically just a flat 20% nerf to ratting income. You could make a boatload of isk just flying around in a speed fit inty (get align time under 1.9 seconds and they are untouchable) cleaning out ESS. With less than 60 seconds to catch and kill the ESS thief it will simply never happen. If you are serious about this please remove all highsec incursions to counterbalance this. You need to be incentivizing people to live in nullsec, NOT giving them more reasons to do all their isk making in highsec. If you want to do some kind of ratting bonus module then have this module generate extra bonus isk on top of the normal bounty (maybe like 100% without, 115% with but the extra isk can be jacked). Also remember that this module is incredibly prone to abuse, there WILL be alliances who put these in all their systems and taking the isk for themselves as an extra form of taxation (cough Goons cough), and in the current state of nullsec there is little to discourage the practice.
Alduin666 Shikkoken Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 373	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:15:00 - [14] - Quote Because putting this is the feedback thread was too hard right? Even putting it in the F&I thread was too demanding for this forum alt. Honor is a fools prize. Glory is of no use to the dead. Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager
Aiwha Infinite Point Nulli Secunda 693	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:33:00 - [15] - Quote As a WH dweller, I fully support the new isk balloons that will become available as I randomly drop into NS. We're winning the war if it says so on CAOD! -á
Erufen Rito The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 61	Posted - 2014.01.15 03:33:00 - [16] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I think the ESS should work by not existing. I concur. Not that I care, since I don't live in K-Space anyway.
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 628	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:08:00 - [17] - Quote The actual "nerf" for those too scared to use it is 5%. "I do want to point out one "abuse" thing I did see however. snipped Please do not post details of possible exploits on the forums. - CCP Eterne" ... Because of Falcon.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 8397	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:12:00 - [18] - Quote Thor Kerrigan wrote: The actual "nerf" for those too scared to use it is 5%. And the nerf for anyone who actually uses it or has it used against them is 20%. But if they're smart they'll just destroy it, so basically it's the 5% plus the wasted time. My EVE Videos
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 628	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:18:00 - [19] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Thor Kerrigan wrote: The actual "nerf" for those too scared to use it is 5%. And the nerf for anyone who actually uses it or has it used against them is 20%. But if they're smart they'll just destroy it, so basically it's the 5% plus the wasted time. Both scenarios generate stuff exploding. "I do want to point out one "abuse" thing I did see however. snipped Please do not post details of possible exploits on the forums. - CCP Eterne" ... Because of Falcon.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 8399	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:28:00 - [20] - Quote Thor Kerrigan wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Thor Kerrigan wrote: The actual "nerf" for those too scared to use it is 5%. And the nerf for anyone who actually uses it or has it used against them is 20%. But if they're smart they'll just destroy it, so basically it's the 5% plus the wasted time. Both scenarios generate stuff exploding. So what? Just because stuff explodes doesn't mean it's good for the game. AOE doomsdays made stuff explode. My EVE Videos
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 9217	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:39:00 - [21] - Quote Part of me wants to hate on this.... the other part of me wants to know when we get High Sec Encounter Surveillance System to syphon off 5% of all mission payouts, LP and rat bounties? *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode ISD Community Communications Liaisons 2782	Posted - 2014.01.15 04:49:00 - [22] - Quote Moving this from General Discussion to Features and Ideas. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

TheMercenaryKing StarFleet Enterprises Almost Awesome. 104	Posted - 2014.01.15 05:40:00 - [23] - Quote so the premise of this mod is: we nerf ratting income in 0.0 by 5% We give people the ability to make back what they would normally get and increase payout by 5% we put 20-25% at risk for the bonus and what people normally get Oh and those ***** **** (and various other words i want to say but nothing comes to mind that wont get me banned) Tags. Not even the benefit of instant isk, ***** TAGS YOU NEED TO GET OUT OF 0.0 TO SELL TO EMPIRE FACTIONS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svF5Y_Riejc
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 629	Posted - 2014.01.15 06:09:00 - [24] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: So what? Just because stuff explodes doesn't mean it's good for the game. AOE doomsdays made stuff explode. AOE doomsdays were considered overpowered afaik. With the ESS change you get the following scenarios: - Do nothing: get 5% less ISK/hour (I remember the Tengu's DPS getting nerfed 10% not too long ago), hardly overpowered or game-breaking imo. - Risk vs Reward stuff otherwise. Let me address the REAL elephant in the room: stealth buff to AFK cloaking, that's what I think. "I do want to point out one "abuse" thing I did see however. snipped Please do not post details of possible exploits on the forums. - CCP Eterne" ... Because of Falcon.
Anita Too Ayonae Enterprises 4	Posted - 2014.01.15 06:17:00 - [25] - Quote Agreed with the above, risk vs reward is too skewed to one side. Consider the below scenarios assuming a small group rats together and kills 500 battleship rats worth 1 mil bounty a rat pre-nerf: i) Pre ESS = earns 500 mils per day ii) Post ESS (Don't deploy ESS), lose 50K a BS => earns 475 mils iii) Deploy ESS - risk 20% (200K a BS) with a potential return of additional 5% (25 mils) => earns 400 mils per day, with 125 mils at risk + 30 mils of ESS cost (32.2% reward vs risk) Why would we risk 75 mils of income and 30 mils of equipment (105 mils total) for a potential of 50 mils reward (that is assuming you hit 25% reward straight off). Now take the view of the thief: i) Fully fitted interceptor (35 mils) being risked ii) Potential return = 125 mils + Killmails (357% reward vs risk) The risk vs reward obviously skewed towards the thieves. Thus I have decided to be the thief and see if any idiots decide to use the ESS. If no one uses that, it would mean the ESS have just failed to do its job.
Petrified Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 52	Posted - 2014.01.15 12:16:00 - [26] - Quote The ESS could be placed 101 KM near a POS.... a heavily armed POS. Since it takes time to access the ESS, anyone not blue gets nailed. A mini game to access - if you did not contribute to the pool. Anyone stupid enough to be the last ratter to log off without accessing the ESS deserves to have the ISK printing machine print for someone else. How about a Hacking game to hack the ESS to print ISK - up to the 50% cost of the ESS even iff the ESS has nothing pooled? So many ideas. But the ESS in and of itself? I wonder whose idea this was. Maybe the same guy that thinks a Falcon is overpowered?
Kendarr Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement 36	Posted - 2014.01.15 13:36:00 - [27] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I think the ESS should work by not existing. I don't agree with this. its a good conflict driver but they should not lower the bounty on rats... 5% of 20 Million (every 20Mins) is 1Mill x 5 is 5 Million. I want my 5 million isk you cheeky developers!!!!! I just cant see the good in the ESS other then conflict. http://crossingzebras.com/
Jenn aSide STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries 4318	Posted - 2014.01.15 13:46:00 - [28] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: I think the ESS should work by not existing. And some not empty quoting.
Kendarr Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement 36	Posted - 2014.01.15 13:46:00 - [29] - Quote [quote=The ESS could be placed 101 KM near a POS.... a heavily armed POS. Since it takes time to access the ESS, anyone not blue gets nailed. A mini game to access - if you did not contribute to the pool. Anyone stupid enough to be the last ratter to log off without accessing the ESS deserves to have the ISK printing machine print for someone else. How about a Hacking game to hack the ESS to print ISK - up to the 50% cost of the ESS even iff the ESS has nothing pooled? So many ideas. But the ESS in and of itself? I wonder whose idea this was. Maybe the same guy that thinks a Falcon is overpowered?[/quote] Quote from the dev post - "The minimum range from these structures is several 100 kilometers." Several 100 Kilometers not exactly 100 Kilometers! http://crossingzebras.com/
Ittvan Gizus HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded 0	Posted - 2014.01.15 14:16:00 - [30] - Quote THIS: James Amril-Kesh wrote: I think the ESS should work by not existing. Honestly, if CCP wants to nerf ratting income in 0.0, then they should do it in a straight way (and face the consequences.) And they really should find some real use of a sureillance system. (Like a deployable, expiring object around wh-s and gates to alert the local, or a sov dependant anchorable detecting cloaked ships, covert cynos, etc. or, a high sec deployable assessing the value of cargo ^^, or a war-target detecting deployable, etc.)

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