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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9825
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
QproQ wrote:I fail to see how this is any different than the addition of MTUs for mission runners. The MTU provides a potential increase in efficiency (income increase), balanced by the increased interference from outside parties, forcing coordination between corpmates.
The ESS provides a potential increase in income balanced by the chance of interference, forcing coordination between alliance members.
If you don't use the MTU do you have a 5% nerf to income?
Anoms are already outclassed by level 4s and with this latest nerf there is no reason at all to make your isk in null sec. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9825
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
QproQ wrote:
If using the MTU is considered the status quo now, then yes. Yes it is.
No you don't, your bounties stay as they are. We are face with either a 5% nerf or deploy a new structure that will reduce your income by 20% for maybe a 5% gain that can be easily stolen in a minute. Given that most ratting systems have few people in them it means just about any small gang is guaranteed to steal that isk unless someone ties up an alt to baby sit the structure which could be earning them a lot more isk.
So we have a nerf to our income and the only way to avoid it is for someone to put up a 30 mil structure which is very easily raided (you will get 80% of your current income) and ties up an alt which would earn you more isk than this structure will ever make you by far.
There is nothing good about this. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9825
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Oh the irony... so called hardcore PvPers complaining about a PVE aspect of the game. Looks like someone calculated how much their ratting bot fleets will lose, and decided to do a call to arms on the forums.
How do you adapt to this?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9825
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rastafarian God wrote:
Although I agree this ratting thing sound like something I would come up with drunk, Im not buying that you cant protect it if you really want to. Alone? maybe not, buy your in null, you wouldnt live out there if you didn't have decent numbers.
Most systems cannot support more than ten people running anoms and with them only needing a minute and intercepters being immune to warp bubbles its a very easy task for most small gangs to steal from these things. By the time you dock up, get into the correct ships to counter them and warp to the structure they will likely be gone.
The only realistic chance to defend these things is to have an alt baby sitting the structure but that means sacrificing an account which would be earning a lot more just ratting.
There is nothing positive with this plan. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9826
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rastafarian God wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:
Tanked bomber with a scram and a web sitting next to it would do the trick. Mainly because it's a unique situation that requires an interceptor stay still.You'd rely on backup for the kill. But again you'd be better off just not deploying one and dumping that SB pilot into another ratting ship.
So there is your counter. Wich means it is not broken, just an overall stupid idea. If your just better off not using the thing instead of using one and protecting it, then just don't use it. If no one uses them, then its essentially just a 5% flat cut like people would prefer (although granted with a way around it if you want to do the work). I personally wonder if CCP would bother keeping them in the game if literally no one ever used them.
That leaves us with a 5% nerf to an activity that is already paying out less than you can make in high sec level 4s.
Will high sec income also be getting nerfed to compensate this loss in income? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9826
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
tiberiusric wrote:OMG you whining tw@ts. Big alliances trying to control eve again.
its ONLY 5% jesus christ! what is up with you. Dont use the ESS you ARE NOT FORCED to.
if you ratted for an hour and made 80mill you would be ONLY losing 4 million isk from what you would get now. big deal! and if you live in nullsec if losing 4 million isk is a problem for you, your doing it wrong.
Sorry if your botters will now lose a little more income!
get a god damn grip
posting with my main-main because i dont give a feck, this is getting out of hand
personally if ccp wanted to nerf nullsec they should of gone further and dropped it to 50% then the ESS would go up in scale the longer its there to 110%. this would of made it a far far better and interesting concept. At the moment the 5% is so small i wouldnt even bother deploying a ESS, so ignore it.
Its the fact that over the last decade null has seen nerf after nerf to its income and we are now at the point where high sec offers much better income. This latest nerf is simply making the problem even worse. There is no reason at all to run anoms over high sec level 4s. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9826
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
You know that this is a LIE. You know very well thatyou can make far far more isk per hour in 0.0. THe only place in high sec where you do near that level of isk per our is incursions. but those you cannot just get home and spend 30 mintues doing it. You need to get on wait list and wait for 2 hours before you start doing money.
If 0.0 is so much less productive than high sec? Why you guys fich so many wars for the income resources of 0.0?
SImplyu, this is a #!@#!@ excuse. 0.0 income is still 2-3 orders of magnitude larger than high sec (except commerce of course)
Average earning on anoms is 90 mil an hour. You earn 120 to 180 doing SOE missions in high sec or 150 to 200 mil with incursions and unlike anoms, you dont have to stop whenever a neutral enters local. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9828
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 12:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Decian Cor wrote:I can't believe this *E-peen* measuring contest thread is already 11 pages long.
This is a wakeup call to CCP that Null has been nerfed into the ground and cannot take any more nerfs to income.
There is zero reason to make isk out here now, highsec is simply better. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9829
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
So if this is simply a way to nerf null income again I have to ask why they feel null needs another nerf given that it already lags behind high sec income.
What incentive exactly is there to make your isk in null these days? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9830
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:baltec1 wrote:So if this is simply a way to nerf null income again I have to ask why they feel null needs another nerf given that it already lags behind high sec income.
What incentive exactly is there to make your isk in null these days? The incredible drops, the almost complete safety, the exclusive benefits null sec gets over high sec? The ESS sounds pretty damn fantastic. Why - because it means people using it have to decide if a) a neut enters system and they dock up like nullbears b) a nuetral enters system and they don't dock up like nullbears. Besides there is an easy and totally safe solution to using it if you wanna be massive cretins...
The drops are rare, the safety is docking up every time something not blue enters local and ]we have no benefits over high sec in terms of income for the line member.
And now another nerf to our income. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9830
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Well, it aint unanimous either
The only people defending this are the people who do not live in null. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9833
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 17:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Hmmm so they can't assign an alt to drop the thing in a big old insured Rokh with 8 big fat smarties. And have the alt periodically take the payout?
Why would you use an alt to babysit this thing when it could be earning you a lot more isk ratting than the EES will ever generate? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9833
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 18:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Hmmm so they can't assign an alt to drop the thing in a big old insured Rokh with 8 big fat smarties. And have the alt periodically take the payout?
Why would you use an alt to babysit this thing when it could be earning you a lot more isk ratting than the EES will ever generate? Cause its fun Killing people? Also no need to babysit, it tells you when they're looting it
You have a minute to respond and with the populations at under 10 pilots per system (due to site restrictions) and a 10-15 man gang arrives you can do nothing to stop them. The only counter is to have a alt sitting on the structure but why do that when you can earn a hell of a lot more by using the alt to rat?
So, nobody uses the stuctures due to their being no gain from doing so and we have yet another nerf to null income. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9835
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 18:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Nah you have a bonus to fun. Unfortunate you can't see that. The goons of old were more interested in fun than isk / per / hour and whining about it....
Back then null sec had something to offer. All these structures will do is send more to highsec are reduce targets in null and thus, reduce the fun. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9835
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 18:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:They must not have the numbers to support your assumption.
Or they are making assumptions without looking at the numbers. Everyone has access to these numbers and its very easy to see where the best isk is. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9836
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 19:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
E6o5 wrote:The tears in this thread are delicious. I think the ESS should cut the bounties by 20% per default and at most raise them to 100.2% The more care bears leave 0.0 or the game the less need is to invest into resources for addressing TIDI. win win.
We just move to high sec and cause TiDi there. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9837
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 19:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Horeya wrote: Even though you guys hate Infinity Ziona suggestion about removing timers, I think you should go play planetside 2 and see for yourself, at night when limited people are online (nice small fights, 1vs1, and some small gangs), and in the evening you get massive fights for HOURS flipping systems, AND in several systems instead of the crammed up 4k in one system.
When you start losing control and stop thinking about it is a game that' when you stop having fun.
Remove timers are you wind up with the same massive supercapital blobs steamrolling eachother only now everyones assets will wind up trapped in stations they cannot access. Literally no one will live in sov space.
The answer is simple, give us a reason to want to live out in null rather than forcing us into highsec. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9837
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:LOL "Null not worth it anymore" "But... but... we were only out in null for the mission bounties! " "Forced into highsec" Did somebody throw a switch on a propaganda machine somewhere? Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of b.s.!
Whats hard to get about this?
You earn more in high sec with near perfect safety. Why would you chose null sec which offers the worst option? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9837
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 20:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:
That's a great question Baltec! One that deserves an answer. So as a current resident of null sec why do you stay there given it's the worst option?
I don't. I do all of my isk earning in high sec and just travel back for the fights. I don't live in null. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9846
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 18:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Jon Feist wrote:For every ESS module that is seen in Nullsec, a miner will be ganked. You should start now and get ahead to avoid the rush.
No miners will die over this. Thats how terrible this idea is. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9847
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 19:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:If nullsec goes to highsec to kill everybody out of revenge for the ESS, then Harry Forever will win VFK and the goons will be homeless.
There is only one Harry Forever and we have him. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9849
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 07:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:You are the one who doesn't get it. 7 of my accounts are pure stealth bomber pvp characters - I can't link the killmail however if you look up Little Baltec you'll see he has no probe launcher and certainly is not fitted for running combat sites. I have one scout + prober and my other character L Dopa is used for killing explorers in cloaky smartbombing Rokhs in relic sites as can also be seen by the killboard I linked. I don't recall a single time I have ever had to scan 10 systems only to find nothing to run. At worse I can belt rat semi-afk while my prober probes or runs relic and data sites which are themselves quite profitable. I can also run anoms, regardless of sec status, since I never run Sanctums anyway as they're a great way to get killed by inties. In my experience there is NEVER a time where there is nothing to do in null, there are so many ways to make better isk than running missions.
You still do not get that sanctums cannot support more than 100 people per region. We have tens of thousands of people, it is impossible for sanctums to support the null population. Anoms are the staple diet for the rank and file but you earn more running missions in high sec. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9849
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 08:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: In 2010 there were 3200 null systems. Your coalition owns approximately half of that space so lets say 1600 systems. While you have tens of thousands of members, quite a substantial number are alts, lets say 50% (1 alt member per actual coalition person, likely to be much higher imo), so out of your claimed 37,000 members, you have 18500 members. Of those 18500 likely only 10% are online at any one time, probably less, if you have data to dispute I'd happily revise my numbers. Of those 1800 online a good percentage are likely not running anoms but rather afk, pvp'ing, manufacturing and in high sec. Lets remove 10% so you have approximately 1.5 people per system...
Its all speculative and I'm sure you have better data available so lets see what it is. I'm sure its not as doomy and gloomy as your purported 10's of thousands of people all online searching for anoms to run :)
I include everyone in null, not just goons.
There are simply not enough sanctums to support large populations. Anoms are what we have instead of missions. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9849
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 09:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:NPC Kills in CFC Space 24 HoursThis shot is a shot of NPC kills in the last 24 hours. I just took the shot so its current. I think you can clearly see that the majority of systems have minimal npc kills. Quite a few have zero npc kills. I propose it clearly shows that there is not the level of competition for anoms and combat sigs that you are suggesting. Now you are probably itching to reply that that's because those systems are terribad for npc'ing. However please refer to the following screenshot. Best Ratting / Sig locations I have foundYou will notice that there is an area of Pure Blind that is lit up significantly more than anywhere else. Its an area between UI-8ZE and F-NMX6. This area is by far the most lucrative area I have found to rat / run anoms and sigs and I have personally pulled out billions of isk. In many cases I have found successive high end sigs untouched and managed to run them all over several hours with no interference. Your suggestion that simply because they're not high negative sec space means they're not lucrative or there is immense competition for them is nonsense. There is almost no competition outside your safe hub systems.
You posted evidence just goes to prove our point. If null offers such great income where is everyone?
It doesn't matter how hard you try, nothing is getting past the fact that sanctums can only sustain less than 100 people per region, there simply isn't any more spawns to run. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9849
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 09:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: How can you say that when clearly I have shown empty systems or systems that barely are touched in a 24 hour period while other areas, such as north of Pure Blind, around VFK, you have huge numbers of NPC kills
I can say it because there is a fixed amount of sanctums per region and that there are only enough for just under 100 people max per region. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9849
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 09:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: If that's the case are you saying that the area from VFK - Branch - the bottom of Pure Blind has less than 100 people in total? Because its obvious theres a crap load of anoms and sigs not being run in that area.
Which just goes to show that anoms are not worth running, just about everyone has abandoned them in favor of high sec missions and incursions. So nerfing them again is only going to make the handful that are left to simply move into high sec to make their isk. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9849
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 10:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:baltec1 wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: If that's the case are you saying that the area from VFK - Branch - the bottom of Pure Blind has less than 100 people in total? Because its obvious theres a crap load of anoms and sigs not being run in that area.
Which just goes to show that anoms are not worth running, just about everyone has abandoned them in favor of high sec missions and incursions. I think its more likely that you're trying to argue a fallacy. Its a fallacy to say there are not enough anoms to go around. You're Goons, you guys used to undock enmasse in anything and everything and in doing so you managed to beat one of the most sophisticated and rich alliances in the game. But you've become just like that sophisticated and rich alliance. You're members are afraid to go more than a few jumps from safety and friends, you're no longer Goons except in name, you're BoB. Those systems are there and people like me and a few other brave neuts are exploiting them. You're crying, much like BoB did, when you're self imposed limitations prevent you from risking for the big rewards. You're excuses that theres no isk in null so you're off to safe high to bear it up is purely just that, an excuse. That's not an attack on Goons or a personal attack on you, that's just how I perceive your and your alliances behaviour based on the evidence that is available.
Where did I say there were not enough anoms?
Anoms pay less than missions do now, this 5% nerf is just making the gap even bigger so we have gone where the isk is. We want to make isk in null, its where we want to live and the more people who make their isk in null the more combat there is. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9883
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 06:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: * It can be used for smart bombing intie traps. * It can be used to set up no ewarp log on traps. * It can be set up at a POS with a bit of grid fu for manual gunner killing. * It can be set up in line with a death or **** star and a strategically placed bubble for auto-pos killing clueless nuets. * It can just be ignored and you lose a tiny fraction of your ratter bounties. * It can boost your income from ratting by a tiny fraction. * It can be used to start conflict in hostile systems and cost your enemy 20% or force them to engage you. * It can be used to siphon bounties from your enemies.
How is that not interesting?
*Cepters can warp in at any range, only a fool would warp in at that range. *Cepters can still warp, they will be used to access the ESS *Ties up an alt that can be used for ratting more isk than the ESS will ever pull in and is unlikely to work anyway. *Again, interceptors and cloaky ships render this tactic invalid. The ESS will not not be on the same grid as the POS. *Another nerf to null income at a time when high sec offers better payouts *The boost from the ESS isnt worth keeping an alt tied up baby sitting it and anyone who does use it without an alt sitting on it is all but garenteed to lose 20% of their earnings. *They will dock up, the moment we leave they will destroy the ESS. It will be a wasted 30 mil. *Nobody will allow it to stay up, it will siphon nothing. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9886
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 08:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: You must be in 2500 of the ESS to access it. You must stay there for 40 seconds. I often cloaky Rokh smartbomb in exploration sites. No decloak recal time on smartbomb activation.
Grid-fu the grid out to 500km, drop the ESS at its minimal distance, likely 200-500km. Blap with manual POS guns.
Make up your mind, they will dock up and then you say they will destroy it. If they dock up then you're costing them isk, if they fight then you can kill them. Dropping one with a CFC cloaky alt will literally garantee they'll not undock and shoot it because 'hotdrop'.
Just wondering, do you know what range these things can be put down at from a POS?
As for the rest, we dont need to drop an ESS to get them to dock up the ratting ships, just having a neut in system is enough. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9890
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 15:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: The dev blog states "several hundred kilometres", the oxford dictionary defines several as "more than two but not many" so its likely less then 500km which would put it in range of manually operated pos guns.
So you have not tested this. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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