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Mr LaboratoryRat
Confederation of DuckTape Lovers
3
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Posted - 2011.11.08 15:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
The current eve 0.0 situation is very poor. Looking at the veritas eve map there are 2 big powerblocs divided over 3/4th of null sec.
Powerbloc = friends that help eatchother.
The 2 are Test & goons rulling the west. Notheren Coalition, Whitenoise, Red-Alliacne & XXX-Death rulling the north, north east and the east.
Big problem is here as those people combined have eaqual or less numbers than those dozen-¦s of alliances ruling (or trying) the south and south east.
What can be changed? With some winterpatch notes being release and the capital nerf annouced it with still be a tough cooky to crack because the sov system works in favour of the defender.
Possible solutions: -Nerf titan guns (not dd, normal turrets) make them able to schoot only structures and capitals -Adjust sov system (very hard to do) -Nerf drone npc-¦s so it becomes worthless and cival war breaks out to break up the biggest powerbloc -Make guristas rats more appealing to farm, up the bounties, make it the best space while nerfing drone npc-¦s -Nerf tech moons so the alliances ruling them dont have free sov across 2/4th of eve & free titans & risk free super production -make keeping sov more expensive |

Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
26
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 15:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Winter is coming.
Now we just need some ******* to throw someone's kid out of a metaphorical window and it'll be WAR, WAR EVERYWHERE. |

Dirk Magnum
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
43
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Posted - 2011.11.08 15:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Confirming nullsec is more fun in a smaller alliance with a trickier diplomatic situation. But to be fair, 50-75% of nullsec has been blue to each other for years now. Absolutely none of your recommendations will do anything at all to remedy that. In fact, nerfing moons and increasing the cost of sov only strengthens the reasons to NAP. |

Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
266
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 15:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
pretty colors make it more impressive but there's probably less than 100 people from any of those alliances in game and operational at any given time.
a map of Nebraska can seem pretty impressive also, but when you go there you discover its a bunch of empty The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |

Embrace My Hate
Black Horizon. Test Friends Please Ignore
34
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Posted - 2011.11.08 16:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Morganta wrote:pretty colors make it more impressive but there's probably less than 100 people from any of those alliances in game and operational at any given time.
a map of Nebraska can seem pretty impressive also, but when you go there you discover its a bunch of empty
This and every major power bloc has somebody in leadership making a nice RL income from RMT and it would be in all of their best interests to avoid conflict to keep the cash flow coming.
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Little Delicious
Imperium's Dark Legion
19
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Posted - 2011.11.08 16:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mr LaboratoryRat wrote: 2/4th of eve
 |

David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
202
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Posted - 2011.11.08 17:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
we need a massive supernova to wipe out all sov structures in each of the powerblock's space and start afresh
maybe add roaming blackholes to dronelands and deklein to hoover up all the bots out there. Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless your from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs. |

Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
38
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Posted - 2011.11.08 17:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Make travel harder. Jump bridges, jump range, split regions up more. Toss in lowsec and maybe even a couple hisec "outpost" systems.
Require joining sov systems to claim another, no more claiming every 3rd or so system to skew the map. Increase sov costs but also benefits.
It should be difficult for an alliance to control an entire region. |

mkint
304
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Posted - 2011.11.08 17:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
It should be a struggle for big groups to actually defend themselves against small groups. Right now it's trivially easy for the big groups to maintain their stranglehold on null. This is not only bad for the market and all that, but for player retention. Once a new player realizes that they and their alliance will NEVER be allowed to play with the "big kids," the only thing left for them is to finish whatever they are working on, and then quit. This takes about 6 months.
Big alliances should fear small groups. A big alliance should avoid having too much sov, not just because that area is worthless, but because they risk a total failscade if they do.
The sad thing is, CCP Grayscale is in charge of nullsec. He will ONLY make changes that make the big guys bigger. If EVE ever dies, it will be Grayscale's fault. And with his track record, it's not that far away. |

Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.11.08 17:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Winter is coming.
Now we just need some ******* to throw someone's kid out of a metaphorical window and it'll be WAR, WAR EVERYWHERE.
Apparently wolves fly at least metaphysically - so its all a wash. Also, that story is never, ever, going to end. |

Cidwm
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2011.11.08 17:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
cost of sov increases per system held maybe? though that can be worked aorund too... sure the player base can think of ways to destabalise null sec if they wanted to. It sometimes can only take 1 person to start a war/tear aapart and organisation |

Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
38
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Posted - 2011.11.08 18:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
mkint wrote:It should be a struggle for big groups to actually defend themselves against small groups. Right now it's trivially easy for the big groups to maintain their stranglehold on null. This is not only bad for the market and all that, but for player retention. Once a new player realizes that they and their alliance will NEVER be allowed to play with the "big kids," the only thing left for them is to finish whatever they are working on, and then quit. This takes about 6 months.
Big alliances should fear small groups. A big alliance should avoid having too much sov, not just because that area is worthless, but because they risk a total failscade if they do.
The sad thing is, CCP Grayscale is in charge of nullsec. He will ONLY make changes that make the big guys bigger. If EVE ever dies, it will be Grayscale's fault. And with his track record, it's not that far away.
It depends on the goal of the small group. If you're talking about a fast moving fleet of, say, 20 vagas and associated ships than realize right now there is no real "defense" of these small groups.
Sure, eventually a defense fleet is mustered.... usually a spattering of BCs or whatever... and at that point if the small roaming fleet chooses to fight then you have one, but if they want they just leave and things go back to normal.
If you mean about defending from a full invasion in order to take the system, It's highly possible to attack, depending. It's incredibly complex. The numbers game comes into play here and to be honest a tiny alliance brute forcing an invasion into the heart of a large alliance's territory would be foolhardy and is fine.
The problem is the coalitions formed, and to be honest nothing can be done to prevent that- even if CCP decided to change things up and try to penalize coalitions eventually a way would be made around it. People want blues nearby, and reds within reach. Always.
What needs to be done is more enocouragment of small, controlled areas the size of constellations and less desire for regional control. |

Casius Omega
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.08 18:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Its like the real world.. drf is europe goons/test is north america AAA and freinds is greece and delve is the middle east.
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Pinaculus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2011.11.08 18:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
More curiosity than anything else, but what can smaller raiding parties accomplish anything that can't be prevented by simply finding safe spots as soon as Local spikes? I've never lived in 0.0 for more than a month so I honestly don't know.
Can small groups actually cause any damage before getting blobbed to kingdom come? |

Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
38
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 18:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pinaculus wrote:More curiosity than anything else, but what can smaller raiding parties accomplish anything that can't be prevented by simply finding safe spots as soon as Local spikes? I've never lived in 0.0 for more than a month so I honestly don't know.
Can small groups actually cause any damage before getting blobbed to kingdom come?
Yes, it happens all the time, every day. You catch people travelling, ratting, rarely mining, running anoms, camping, or even on a roam looking for a fight like you are.
If you catch the ratters you get some good loot sometimes. |

mkint
306
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Posted - 2011.11.08 18:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:mkint wrote:It should be a struggle for big groups to actually defend themselves against small groups. Right now it's trivially easy for the big groups to maintain their stranglehold on null. This is not only bad for the market and all that, but for player retention. Once a new player realizes that they and their alliance will NEVER be allowed to play with the "big kids," the only thing left for them is to finish whatever they are working on, and then quit. This takes about 6 months.
Big alliances should fear small groups. A big alliance should avoid having too much sov, not just because that area is worthless, but because they risk a total failscade if they do.
The sad thing is, CCP Grayscale is in charge of nullsec. He will ONLY make changes that make the big guys bigger. If EVE ever dies, it will be Grayscale's fault. And with his track record, it's not that far away. It depends on the goal of the small group. If you're talking about a fast moving fleet of, say, 20 vagas and associated ships than realize right now there is no real "defense" of these small groups. Sure, eventually a defense fleet is mustered.... usually a spattering of BCs or whatever... and at that point if the small roaming fleet chooses to fight then you have one, but if they want they just leave and things go back to normal. If you mean about defending from a full invasion in order to take the system, It's highly possible to attack, depending. It's incredibly complex. The numbers game comes into play here and to be honest a tiny alliance brute forcing an invasion into the heart of a large alliance's territory would be foolhardy and is fine. The problem is the coalitions formed, and to be honest nothing can be done to prevent that- even if CCP decided to change things up and try to penalize coalitions eventually a way would be made around it. People want blues nearby, and reds within reach. Always. What needs to be done is more enocouragment of small, controlled areas the size of constellations and less desire for regional control. Penalizing or rewarding different areas of control (regional/constellation) should probably be part of it. Requiring neighboring sov should be part of it as well.
But, if that group of 20 vagas comes into your sov, you have less to lose by docking up and playing xbox than to fight them off. The ideas of allowing small groups to disrupt infrastructure still isn't enough. That's just a griefing mechanic and doesn't really do anything to destabilize sov.
Here's a thought though. What if we looked at sov like a board game? (Right now, it's nearly the worst board game ever... Candyland has more strategy involved.) What if each alliance was given 4 tokens, 3 defensive tokens, 1 offensive. In every system without a defensive token all sov structures have 1/10th their current HP (this is balanced by your idea of only allowing to claim sov in neighboring systems.) The offensive token would allow an alliance to attack the sov of 1 non-adjacent system. Such a system would still allow surprisebuttseks, would still allow coalitions to work together, would make it easier to clean up after a failscaded alliance, would make claiming sov a strategic decision, but also make groups that get too big vulnerable to attack.
Except, again, any idea that threatens the RMT alliances will NEVER get implemented, thanks to Grayscale. |

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
88
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
It's easy to identify, track, and react with a blob to any 'small group' trying to disrupt large alliance logistics/farming. It's also very easy to avoid that 'small group' for anyone involved in large alliance logistics/farming.
Why? Because those farmers, or anyone chilling at a POS or an outpost is part of a huge, multi-alliance-wide intel network made possible by INSTANT and OMNIPOTENT LOCAL. |

mkint
306
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Razin wrote:It's easy to identify, track, and react with a blob to any 'small group' trying to disrupt large alliance logistics/farming. It's also very easy to avoid that 'small group' for anyone involved in large alliance logistics/farming.
Why? Because those farmers, or anyone chilling at a POS or an outpost is part of a huge, multi-alliance-wide intel network made possible by INSTANT and OMNIPOTENT LOCAL. om-+nip-+o-+tent GÇé GÇé[om-nip-uh-tuhnt] adjective 1. almighty or infinite in power, as God.
om-+nis-+cient GÇé GÇé[om-nish-uhnt] adjective 1. having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.
Just thought I'd throw that out there. Besides, I still have the feeling deep down, that the big powerbloc bluefesters will somehow gain more advantage from no local than small groups. I'm not sure how, but I feels it in my bones. |

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
88
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
mkint wrote:Razin wrote:It's easy to identify, track, and react with a blob to any 'small group' trying to disrupt large alliance logistics/farming. It's also very easy to avoid that 'small group' for anyone involved in large alliance logistics/farming.
Why? Because those farmers, or anyone chilling at a POS or an outpost is part of a huge, multi-alliance-wide intel network made possible by INSTANT and OMNIPOTENT LOCAL. om-+nip-+o-+tentGÇé GÇé[om-nip-uh-tuhnt] adjective 1. almighty or infinite in power, as God. om-+nis-+cientGÇé GÇé[om-nish-uhnt] adjective 1. having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Besides, I still have the feeling deep down, that the big powerbloc bluefesters will somehow gain more advantage from no local than small groups. I'm not sure how, but I feels it in my bones. Well, neither omnipotent nor omniscient fit in their strict definition. I'm referring to local's infallibility and unavoidability.
Your feeling is just that, a feeling. |

Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
711
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pinaculus wrote:More curiosity than anything else, but what can smaller raiding parties accomplish anything that can't be prevented by simply finding safe spots as soon as Local spikes? CCP has heard your question and has generously given you something to blow up. Player owned customs offices...a structure that means so little that the blobs won't care about it. Enjoy! The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |

Drifterin Thedark
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Winter is coming.
The only thing interesting about that is how goons started saying it before anyone else knew what they were talking about. But i guess NDAs aren't all that important when you've got the management eating out of your hand.
All it is going to do is change how the currently existing powerblocs fight eachother, and has nothing really to do with the subject of this thread. |

Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
711
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Drifterin Thedark wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Winter is coming. The only thing interesting about that is how goons started saying it before anyone else knew what they were talking about. But i guess NDAs aren't all that important when you've got the management eating out of your hand. All it is going to do is change how the currently existing powerblocs fight eachother, and has nothing really to do with the subject of this thread. No goons have broken the NDA. The supercap nerfs were talked about by CCP devs at a fan gathering. Darius III, on the other hand, was proven to have broken the NDA.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |

mkint
306
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Drifterin Thedark wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Winter is coming. The only thing interesting about that is how goons started saying it before anyone else knew what they were talking about. But i guess NDAs aren't all that important when you've got the management eating out of your hand. All it is going to do is change how the currently existing powerblocs fight eachother, and has nothing really to do with the subject of this thread. No goons have broken the NDA. The supercap nerfs were talked about by CCP devs at a fan gathering. Darius III, on the other hand, was proven to have broken the NDA. Mittens making sh!t up isn't proof. Mittens launching an alliance-wide campaign to capitalize on the upcoming dev implemented bottlenecks in ice products is more proof than anything. Stop sucking Mitten's d!ck. It makes you look brainwashed and weak willed.
However, Mittens doing stuff that should get him perma-banned is not the topic here... the topic is that EVE will die if nullsec isn't permanently destabilized. |

Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
711
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
mkint wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Drifterin Thedark wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Winter is coming. The only thing interesting about that is how goons started saying it before anyone else knew what they were talking about. But i guess NDAs aren't all that important when you've got the management eating out of your hand. All it is going to do is change how the currently existing powerblocs fight eachother, and has nothing really to do with the subject of this thread. No goons have broken the NDA. The supercap nerfs were talked about by CCP devs at a fan gathering. Darius III, on the other hand, was proven to have broken the NDA. Mittens making sh!t up isn't proof. Mittens launching an alliance-wide campaign to capitalize on the upcoming dev implemented bottlenecks in ice products is more proof than anything. Stop sucking Mitten's d!ck. It makes you look brainwashed and weak willed. However, Mittens doing stuff that should get him perma-banned is not the topic here... the topic is that EVE will die if nullsec isn't permanently destabilized. Mittens wasn't the one to provide the proof that Darius was leaking NDA'd information. It was one of the non-goons on the CSM. You should try and not let your goonhate get in the way of your reading comprehension.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |

Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
28
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Drifterin Thedark wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Winter is coming. The only thing interesting about that is how goons started saying it before anyone else knew what they were talking about. But i guess NDAs aren't all that important when you've got the management eating out of your hand. All it is going to do is change how the currently existing powerblocs fight eachother, and has nothing really to do with the subject of this thread.
Correct me if I'm wrong (as I am not in an alliance), but I think that everyone has enough pocket money that no matter if you make the Tech moons or whatever other economic incentive teleport around every three weeks, the big powerblocs won't fight unless they WANT to.
For that, you have to make war FUN, not just profitable. |

Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
711
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong (as I am not in an alliance), but I think that everyone has enough pocket money that no matter if you make the Tech moons or whatever other economic incentive teleport around every three weeks, the big powerblocs won't fight unless they WANT to.
For that, you have to make war FUN, not just profitable. This is absolutely correct and why supercaps need to be nerfed. As soon as they are involved they take the fun out of any engagement.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |

Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
76
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 19:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Clearly the answer is to teleport miners and other care bears to null sec. Make it like a trap door or something. They click on a random asteroid and suddenly they wake up in a null sec asteroid belt.
That way the "hardcore" pvpers wouldn't have to travel so far to kill them. Apparently that is what they enjoy anyway. |

Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
711
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 20:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dalloway Jones wrote:Clearly the answer is to teleport miners and other care bears to null sec. Make it like a trap door or something. They click on a random asteroid and suddenly they wake up in a null sec asteroid belt.
That way the "hardcore" pvpers wouldn't have to travel so far to kill them. Apparently that is what they enjoy anyway. This is the first good suggestion in the entire thread.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |

Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
29
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 20:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Krios Ahzek wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong (as I am not in an alliance), but I think that everyone has enough pocket money that no matter if you make the Tech moons or whatever other economic incentive teleport around every three weeks, the big powerblocs won't fight unless they WANT to.
For that, you have to make war FUN, not just profitable. This is absolutely correct and why supercaps need to be nerfed. As soon as they are involved they take the fun out of any engagement.
Flying capships single handedly is ridiculous; 1 player in a supercap SOLOPWNS 10 players, so given enough time and money, there's no reason not to outfit your entire alliance with caps.
They should have made supercaps a teamwork effort instead of a solo deathmobile.
One pilot drives, 8 others target and fire one high slot module each, x others remote control 5 drones each.
It would have made more sense, as supercap blobbing would require almost as much players as subcap blobbing. |

Sebero Sinak
Eve Pilots Revolutionary Army
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 20:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
lets say someone had a grudge against one of the OP's "Powerblocks" or didn't care much for the business model being used by one or more of them.....now that we have a motive to attack - what can be done ?
SBU's are reasonably priced 130 - 140 mil and very easy to place ...anyone with a Bestower, a Prototype Cloak and starbase configuration role can place an SBU anywhere they choose. (Provided you are in an alliance )
Thats not hype i travel thru hostile 0.0 in my "Deep Space" Bestower, cloak, inertia stabs, and probe launcher.
The problem comes in the response time allowed the sovernity holders. ...If you have a handful of Caps pilots watching their vast holdings of almost deserted space they have plenty of time to email, phone, schedule pizza in and generally graze contentedly in the direction of the problem. At such time as they do show up it's the status quo and not inviting for the smaller alliances to try.
BTW..i haven't positioned my little corp with access to dropping SBU's in systems of the OP's Powerblocks at any time a war breaks out and the "good guys" contact me about doing it. I wouldn't dream of something like that. |
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