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Apollo Balthar	Posted - 2006.03.23 08:43:00 - [1] Edited by: Apollo Balthar on 23/03/2006 08:45:02 Okay, I don't like forum whines and I rarely indulge myself i one, but: Why, for the love of all thats holy, does the Apocolyose get 75m3 MORE cargo then the Tempest ? It even had more then the ever so uber Raven, which must help itself with a "mere" 665 M3..... To sum it up: Apoc, 675 m3 cargo ---> USES NO AMMO Raven, 665 m3 cargo -> Uses very high volume ammo. Tempest, 600 m3 cargo -> Uses high volume ammo. Mega, 675 m3 cargo -> is at least on par with the Apoc, have no clue how large ammo is, don't care to look it up, but I assume it's about the same as Projectile ammo.. Could the cargo on the Tempest and the Apoc be swapped, or at least increase the Tempest's cargo with 75 m3 so it is on par with the Apoc? Living in 0.0 is "hard" enough allready without the severely gimped room for ammo. Making 4 to 15 jumps to get ammo (in my case) is no fun.. The tier 1's seem more in line with what you expect. at work now so no time to check out BC, Cruiser and frig bays. Live by the sword, die by my guns...!
F'nog	Posted - 2006.03.23 08:47:00 - [2] We're just better than you. We use our superior intellect to design and build superior ships. If you can't live with this there's always permadeath. Otherwise, return to your true heritage and give in to the Amarr side. Originally by: Bl4zer But, cmon, this is the Eve forums, we don't let facts get in the way of pointless speculation.
SolarKnight	Posted - 2006.03.23 08:49:00 - [3] The apoc has missile hardpoints, so it needs some space for missiles if launchers are fitted right? The Light in the Darkness Origin Systems is Recruiting http://Origin.zapto.org
Ambrose	Posted - 2006.03.23 08:49:00 - [4] I think the original plan was for ships to also use consumables, and the Amarr ships, being very inefficient made up for thier lack of ammunition with the tremendous support costs. Something like killing a slave every 3 or 4 times you fired your guns... and needing a bunch of em to run the hsip at all.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.03.23 08:50:00 - [5] Typhoon: 625m¦ - using high volume and very high volume ammo. Large hybrid ammo has a fixed size of 0.1m¦ per shot, constant over all ammo types. Large projectile ammo size varies from 0.08m¦(CarboLead) to 0.1m¦(EMP]. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Tachy	Posted - 2006.03.23 08:53:00 - [6] Originally by: SolarKnight The apoc has missile hardpoints, so it needs some space for missiles if launchers are fitted right? The setups I have seen either use rocket launchers or assault launcher with defenders - if any launchers at all. Most setups avoid misisles all together and apply some suckers for bolstering their cap recharge and fending off close range opponents. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.03.23 08:56:00 - [7] Edited by: LWMaverick on 23/03/2006 08:57:11 Man.. At least find something relative important to complaing about. Oh well.. Tempest.. well, in reality it has as much as the apoc, but due the amount of backup duct tape, cargobay is reduced to 600m3 /Mav
Buster Gonads	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:02:00 - [8] The Apoc is also a swiss army knife - used a lot for mining in low sec, so it's cargo bay is useful there too.
Jin Masaru	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:08:00 - [9] The apoc is much larger than all the other ships as well.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Jin Masaru The apoc is much larger than all the other ships as well. Biggest BS is the scorpion

Seto Mazzarotto	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:16:00 - [11] Back in the days of Tachyon loadouts lasers did use ammo. Cap charges.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:20:00 - [12] Megathron = Blasterthron = Cap charges. They take up a huge amount of room. I do agree that the Apoc bay seems a bit big, but then it is primarily an NPCing ship and needs room for loot My Latest Vid (16/02/06)
Valigis	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:20:00 - [13] Apo = mining ship so need more cargo
Apollo Balthar	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:21:00 - [14] Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 23/03/2006 08:57:11 Man.. At least find something relative important to complaing about. Oh well.. Tempest.. well, in reality it has as much as the apoc, but due the amount of backup duct tape, cargobay is reduced to 600m3 /Mav You could, of course, not reply if you have nothing constructive to add. but... 75 m3 is 750 rounds of my largest ammo, effectively gives me an odd couple of PvP fights although it's impossible to predict ammo usage there. 750 rounds give me, depending on the type of rat, about 3 to 5 0.0 BS spawns. In the case of NPC hunting your talking about half an hour to an hour extention of hunting time greatly reducing my traveltime to pick up ammo if i were to venture a bit more then 3 jumps away from a station...... Also, most important cases are being looked at and/or whined about plenty. Sure the 1400's and 800 mm's could use a look etc. This hasn't been mentioned a long time and it seemed very unfair. To the Gallente Pilot, I specificly added I don't know about Gallente ammo, so you might be completely right.. that still doesn't make my point invalid though. To the Amarr pilot, there is a roleplay forum, take your trolling there tyvm. Live by the sword, die by my guns...!
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Valigis Apo = mining ship so need more cargo die
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:27:00 - [16] Edited by: LWMaverick on 23/03/2006 09:32:24 Trolling?.. Right.. Ever thought of the cargo bay is being used for something else than just ammo? Whenever i fly apoc in larger gangs, im carrying both ammo and 400/800 charges for the others... + if im using Cap boosters myself. Well.. In the end, i wouldnt mind, so /signed, but i doubt it will be changed, as some things are far more important for the time being.
Apollo Balthar	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:38:00 - [17] Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 23/03/2006 09:32:24 Trolling?.. Right.. Ever thought of the cargo bay is being used for something else than just ammo? Whenever i fly apoc in larger gangs, im carrying both ammo and 400/800 charges for the others... + if im using Cap boosters myself. Well.. In the end, i wouldnt mind, so /signed, but i doubt it will be changed, as some things are far more important for the time being. You were not trolling, the Amarr "roleplaying" "Minmatar is slaves so STFU" pilot was, I merely stated you initial reply was not very constructive. Back on topic, you carrying 800 charges STILL doesnt make my point invalid, as there are many cases I will carry charges in small gang (close range) situations. Let's just say most pilots more or less use their cargo bay the same way, so let's at least make hem sort of equal and leave the ammo discussion out of it.. Live by the sword, die by my guns...!
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Apollo Balthar Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 23/03/2006 09:32:24 Trolling?.. Right.. Ever thought of the cargo bay is being used for something else than just ammo? Whenever i fly apoc in larger gangs, im carrying both ammo and 400/800 charges for the others... + if im using Cap boosters myself. Well.. In the end, i wouldnt mind, so /signed, but i doubt it will be changed, as some things are far more important for the time being. You were not trolling, the Amarr "roleplaying" "Minmatar is slaves so STFU" pilot was, I merely stated you initial reply was not very constructive. Back on topic, you carrying 800 charges STILL doesnt make my point invalid, as there are many cases I will carry charges in small gang (close range) situations. Let's just say most pilots more or less use their cargo bay the same way, so let's at least make hem sort of equal and leave the ammo discussion out of it.. Read agian dumbass 1. I did NOT say minmatars we're slaves and all that ****, you said that, so leave me out of that. 2. I was joking, wts sense of humor! 3. Read again, i said that i wouldnt mind you guys getting an increase, so cease fire will ya?!
Sharcy	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:47:00 - [19] Well if you're going to make it an issue, then by all means compare the mass/cargo space ratio of frigates vs. battleships. I'd say those are a whee bit off too. -- Sonnema is recruiting!
chillz	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:48:00 - [20] We have a drone bay, we have a cargo bay, we should also have an ammo bay (magazine). ----------------------------------- A gun and a packet of sandwiches. "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson

Sharcy	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:52:00 - [21] Originally by: LWMaverick Read agian dumbass 1. I did NOT say minmatars we're slaves and all that **, you said that, so leave me out of that. You need coffee man, he wasn't referring to you, so telling him to read again kinda reverses the dumbass remark Originally by:** Apollo Balthar To the Amarr pilot, there is a roleplay forum, take your trolling there tyvm. -- Sonnema is recruiting!
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.03.23 09:58:00 - [22] Originally by: Sharcy Originally by: LWMaverick Read agian dumbass 1. I did NOT say minmatars we're slaves and all that **, you said that, so leave me out of that. You need coffee man, he wasn't referring to you, so telling him to read again kinda reverses the dumbass remark Originally by:** Apollo Balthar To the Amarr pilot, there is a roleplay forum, take your trolling there tyvm. Yeah i do need coffe 5 hours of sleep for 7 days ftl
Apollo Balthar	Posted - 2006.03.23 10:01:00 - [23] Edited by: Apollo Balthar on 23/03/2006 10:05:00 Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: Sharcy Originally by: LWMaverick Read agian dumbass 1. I did NOT say minmatars we're slaves and all that **, you said that, so leave me out of that. You need coffee man, he wasn't referring to you, so telling him to read again kinda reverses the dumbass remark Originally by:** Apollo Balthar To the Amarr pilot, there is a roleplay forum, take your trolling there tyvm. Yeah i do need coffe 5 hours of sleep for 7 days ftl Lol, don't take it too bad, I am at work and don't really have the time/monitor space/coffee to decently quote or refer to ppl, so my excuses for that. Live by the sword, die by my guns...!
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.03.23 10:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Apollo Balthar Lol, don't take it too bad, I am at work and don't really have the time/monitor space/coffee to decently quote or refer to ppl, so my excuses for that. Np
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.03.23 10:09:00 - [25] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 23/03/2006 10:09:43 Typhoon has it the worst. Autocannons + Launchers and an armor tank = L ammo, Cruise/Torps, Cap Charges = no room at all left for dirty holoreels. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Bellac	Posted - 2006.03.23 10:18:00 - [26] Some of this has already been covered - But Apoc has 2 missile points so needs missile ammo space. Tech 2 crystals degrade so it needs spares there. And as covered before It uses a huge ammount of cap, and so needs space for cap charges If your setup goes that way. OK other BS cargo spaces may be low, but you are wrong to say that the apoc does not need its cargo space.
Xeios	Posted - 2006.03.23 10:23:00 - [27] Well I know u arent going to want to hear it and I cant log in atm to check the numbers but according to the size chart the apoc is the biggest BS by far. Its a little harsh I know but unfortunatly it maybe one of those little things that has to be lived with.
Buraken v2	Posted - 2006.03.23 10:50:00 - [28] Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: Apollo Balthar Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 23/03/2006 09:32:24 Trolling?.. Right.. Ever thought of the cargo bay is being used for something else than just ammo? Whenever i fly apoc in larger gangs, im carrying both ammo and 400/800 charges for the others... + if im using Cap boosters myself. Well.. In the end, i wouldnt mind, so /signed, but i doubt it will be changed, as some things are far more important for the time being. You were not trolling, the Amarr "roleplaying" "Minmatar is slaves so STFU" pilot was, I merely stated you initial reply was not very constructive. Back on topic, you carrying 800 charges STILL doesnt make my point invalid, as there are many cases I will carry charges in small gang (close range) situations. Let's just say most pilots more or less use their cargo bay the same way, so let's at least make hem sort of equal and leave the ammo discussion out of it.. Read agian dumbass 1. I did NOT say minmatars we're slaves and all that **, you said that, so leave me out of that. 2. I was joking, wts sense of humor! 3. Read again, i said that i wouldnt mind you guys getting an increase, so cease fire will ya?! Reading skills lvl0 4tl, go back to first grade. Originally by:** Mang0o 200m sexy ill bid on yours becouse you are so cute
Apollo Balthar	Posted - 2006.03.23 10:54:00 - [29] Originally by: Xeios Well I know u arent going to want to hear it and I cant log in atm to check the numbers but according to the size chart the apoc is the biggest BS by far. Its a little harsh I know but unfortunatly it maybe one of those little things that has to be lived with. With all respect, and how much I like to RP, RP reasons should not mess with ballance, even if it's about something as bland as cargospace. After all, it is also a tactical spacegame besides a RP game, and 75 m3 (or more, as I would like) can be the difference between being able to load another (couple of) cap charge(s)/torp/(t2)ammo and hence make me lose an otherwise even/ballanced fight. Live by the sword, die by my guns...!
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.03.23 11:26:00 - [30] Edited by: LWMaverick on 23/03/2006 11:28:26 Edited by: LWMaverick on 23/03/2006 11:26:14 Originally by: Buraken v2 Reading skills lvl0 4tl, go back to first grade. k

Vadir Inferno	Posted - 2006.03.23 11:45:00 - [31] i dont have time read everyones replies but basically if its that big a deal use a cargo expander and dont forget if your using missiles limos types store more ammo, and if u add up 5 x 33 thats 165 missiles stored in the launchers but yeah go flame go :)
Blood Redd	Posted - 2006.03.23 11:53:00 - [32] You can just chuck in a medium container, Gives you an extra 65m3.
Laythun	Posted - 2006.03.23 11:58:00 - [33] apoc is physically bigger than the tempest. more space more cargo. dont spout 'balance' either thats just silly. --------------------------------------------- If im flaming or not contributing im sorry, but im trying to get into th [23]
K Shara	Posted - 2006.03.23 12:14:00 - [34] it has a larger capacity so that it can be used a mining ship . fair .... not really, but then amarr needs seveer gimping anyway. slave trading scum vermin that they are
Captain Merkin	Posted - 2006.03.23 12:20:00 - [35] I dont find cargo space in BS a problem at all really, but then I am never away from an ammo supply for long periods of time.. Although I can how it works, Amarr ships have large holds because they are for miners. Proving natural selection and Charles Darwin wrong since 1981. The Kamikaze pilot
Recluse XXX	Posted - 2006.03.23 12:25:00 - [36] Originally by: Eyeshadow I do agree that the Apoc bay seems a bit big, but then it is primarily an NPCing ship and needs room for loot I know you ment to say mining and that it need room for roids...but I forgive you your errors my son. //Rec --------- Edited by: sausage jockey on 01/02/2006 22:02:39 We will not give up until we have penetrated the rear entrance to Stain, we hope this will hurt SA to the point they start to cry.
Sun Ra	Posted - 2006.03.23 12:38:00 - [37] Edited by: Sun Ra on 23/03/2006 12:39:51 Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 23/03/2006 08:57:11 Man.. At least find something relative important to complaing about. Oh well.. Tempest.. well, in reality it has as much as the apoc, but due the amount of backup duct tape, cargobay is reduced to 600m3 /Mav ACtually it is important and was gonna be the next topic of my whine thread 600m3 is **ty, 1) we need to carry a wide range of ammo types like ravens 2) our ammmo takes alot of space 3) our guns use a F* load of esp dual 425 You dont need to increase cargo size, just lower the cargo space the ammo use ps Blasterthron pilots you can fit many more cap 800s then we do Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.03.23 12:46:00 - [38] Originally by: K Shara it has a larger capacity so that it can be used a mining ship . fair .... not really, but then amarr needs seveer gimping anyway. slave trading scum vermin that they are I'm going to shave your head in RL Fear me!
Captain Merkin	Posted - 2006.03.23 12:51:00 - [39] Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: K Shara it has a larger capacity so that it can be used a mining ship . fair .... not really, but then amarr needs seveer gimping anyway. slave trading scum vermin that they are I'm going to shave your head in RL Fear me! I would have been scared a few months back.. but my dreadlocks are now all in a plastic bag rotting under the sink ;) Proving natural selection and Charles Darwin wrong since 1981. The Kamikaze pilot
velocoraptor	Posted - 2006.03.23 12:52:00 - [40] Double all BS's cargo holds.

Forsch	Posted - 2006.03.23 12:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Sun Ra 1) we need to carry a wide range of ammo types like ravens Funny how most other Minmatars claim it's only really practical to use one type of ammo because of range and dmg. But good to see that varying dmg types is not as insignificant of an advantage as some make it seem to be. ________________________________________________________________ Forsch Defender of the empire
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.03.23 12:57:00 - [42] Originally by: velocoraptor Double all BS's cargo holds. Yeah that would be great wouldnt it ?.. ravens with 50x 800 cap boosters..
Necroth	Posted - 2006.03.23 13:04:00 - [43] anyway, 450m3 for destroyers those are small... and only 600+ m3 for BSs is a bit illogical -------- Necroth
velocoraptor	Posted - 2006.03.23 13:12:00 - [44] Originally by: LWMaverick Originally by: velocoraptor Double all BS's cargo holds. Yeah that would be great wouldnt it ?.. ravens with 50x 800 cap boosters.. 5o sounds too much, but after ammo etc, I suppose it would be less, but anyway it IS illogical now compared with smaller ship cleasses and I stand by my initial statement. Double all BS's cargo holds ;-)
Garia666	Posted - 2006.03.23 13:13:00 - [45] Edited by: Garia666 on 23/03/2006 13:13:08 ohboy i took teh race which has less cargo hold.. why wasent i born an amarrian.. Why isnt life fair and arrent we equal ffs man put your energy in the game ADGA Website
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.03.23 13:25:00 - [46] Yea were supposed to have various ammo types and certainly changing between EMP/PP/Fusion makes a significant difference, but there is not space for this. Especially if you mix in our so-called "secondary" weapon. Let alone any cap charges. Well we know why Amarr's cargo hold is so big, thats why we shoot them. It all points to Minmatar being skirmishers and not designed for knock-down-drag-outs. Its fine being the size it is. But you have to ask, since this is a tradeoff the Minmatar made, what did they get in return? Speed, signature? ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
NateX	Posted - 2006.03.23 13:49:00 - [47] Originally by: chillz We have a drone bay, we have a cargo bay, we should also have an ammo bay (magazine). /signed Signatures is for n00bs.. lol
smallgreenblur	Posted - 2006.03.23 14:02:00 - [48] Originally by: Laythun apoc is physically bigger than the tempest. more space more cargo. dont spout 'balance' either thats just silly. Yeah i hate people that try and balance the game too, it makes it so unfair on the people flying the FOTM... I'd like to see more cargo space on my tempy having read this thread, didn't know the other races had an advantage there too :p When i went for the 'underdog' race 3 years ago I didn't think it really meant that... whoops... sgb
Apollo Balthar	Posted - 2006.03.23 15:23:00 - [49] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Laythun apoc is physically bigger than the tempest. more space more cargo. dont spout 'balance' either thats just silly. I'd like to see more cargo space on my tempy having read this thread, didn't know the other races had an advantage there too :p sgb Yeah, I was very surprised when i noticed this too (I was actually looking at the specs. of the Apoc cause I concider training for one . I specificly made this thread because i kinda hope the following dev responce:"Oopsie, we kinda missed that, we will punch in the numbers and all will be fixed after next downtime"..... Ah well, one can dream Live by the sword, die by my guns...!
danneh	Posted - 2006.03.23 15:32:00 - [50] Originally by: K Shara it has a larger capacity so that it can be used a mining ship . fair .... not really, but then amarr needs seveer gimping anyway. slave trading scum vermin that they are Once Deja has finished shaving your head, i will wash it with acid!

Zembla	Posted - 2006.03.23 15:55:00 - [51] Originally by: Apollo Balthar Also, most important cases are being looked at and/or whined about plenty. Sure the 1400's and 800 mm's could use a look etc. This hasn't been mentioned a long time and it seemed very unfair. To the Gallente Pilot, I specificly added I don't know about Gallente ammo, so you might be completely right.. that still doesn't make my point invalid though. To the Amarr pilot, there is a roleplay forum, take your trolling there tyvm. So, to sum it all up. You're right, and they're wrong? Sry to say, but there are weapon types and ship classes that need more looking into and earlier looking into than the Tempest and it's projectile weapons. BTW, it needs it's 675 for mining. And, about ammo, the 75m¦ you're asking for, is probably about the ammt of space you'd leave unfilled with ammo because you want to be able to take that Arbalest Cruise Launcher with you when you find it instead of having to leave it behind... <Z> Spread the Z
Apollo Balthar	Posted - 2006.03.23 17:58:00 - [52] Edited by: Apollo Balthar on 23/03/2006 17:59:42 Originally by: Zembla Originally by: Apollo Balthar Also, most important cases are being looked at and/or whined about plenty. Sure the 1400's and 800 mm's could use a look etc. This hasn't been mentioned a long time and it seemed very unfair. To the Gallente Pilot, I specificly added I don't know about Gallente ammo, so you might be completely right.. that still doesn't make my point invalid though. To the Amarr pilot, there is a roleplay forum, take your trolling there tyvm. So, to sum it all up. You're right, and they're wrong? now where the hell did I say that ? Quote: Sry to say, but there are weapon types and ship classes that need more looking into and earlier looking into than the Tempest and it's projectile weapons. And where in my post did I suggest it is any different? Quote: BTW, it needs it's 675 for mining. And, about ammo, the 75m¦ you're asking for, is probably about the ammt of space you'd leave unfilled with ammo because you want to be able to take that Arbalest Cruise Launcher with you when you find it instead of having to leave it behind... WTH is with ppl that concider the importance of the Apoc as a mining ship greater then the use of the Tempest as a hunting ship? So, the Apoc needs that 75m3 to mine better, great, let me get some extra cargo for NPC'ing? Really, try validate that point and we have an argument, now you did nothing more then waste perfectly fine bandwith, not to mention my boss'es time... oh wait.... Live by the sword, die by my guns...!


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