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Carriers - Some quite serious Issues. CCP are going to look at it?

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Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.03.24 15:59:00 - [31] Originally by: Damien Vox Originally by: Scalor Valentis Originally by: Damien Vox Fighters don't hit hard enough? Say huh? I saw a log of a fighter hitting a battleship for 1100+ dmg lastnight, a single fighter hitting for that much damage. I'd say they do just fine. they miss alot, they net DPS is not that garate... They aren't meant for frigates, that is what you can still carry medium/heavy drones for. I've seen them used on cruisers and above and they seriously shine. If the frigate is webbed they do monsterous damage there as well. It is just like an actual ship, I'm sorry but they do incredible damage as is and I don't exactly see what your complaining about. Using a carrier solo is suicide anyways. they miss alot against all things, not exclusivly against frigates. WTB: The Correct DreadÖ
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.03.24 16:26:00 - [32] "Everything is really ready for it, works and everything the problem is with the drone control unit. It is just too much pwnage on a Moros." Couldn't this be resolved by having siege mode affect signature resolution of drones in the same way it affects ship turrets? Then Moros can try to 'pwn' with the drones but has to stay out of siege for this (or the drones won't hit jack) ... meaning it can be countered much easier than in siege ... the usual trade-off, pretty much o.O;
Serendipity007	Posted - 2006.03.24 16:28:00 - [33] Originally by: Tuxford I can't answer the the other questions but the advanced drone interfacing skill will come in. Everything is really ready for it, works and everything the problem is with the drone control unit. It is just too much pwnage on a Moros. Doesn't anybody THINK about balance when they introduce new mods? First the Moros gets 30+ drones pre-RMR. Now they get 5, but the drone bonuses make the drones into pwn-machines. Introduce +1 drones controlled module, and now you can have more pwn-machine drones. Dreadnaughts should be damage dealers with GUNS AND LAUNCHERS not DRONES The Moros needs some serious rebalancing if its the primary reason a vital Carrier module skill is not being released. Carriers and Motherships are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to hold large amounts of drones, and fight with them. Drones are the only method of attack with Carriers and Motherships. +1 Drone Control mods make sense. Make the Drone Control mods Carrier/Mothership mod only, or nerf the Moros so that it doesn't get out of balance with the mods, and RELEASE THE SKILL! This is silly, you guys are making SOE style mistakes: Introducing new content without thinking about the imbalance it would cause. This is a dangerous path, and forever it will dominate your destiny, if you don't nip it in the bud right now. Also, a 1.2 Bil "Carrier" ship aught to be able to hold ONE 100 mil "Battleship". The hangar bay would just have to be around 1,250,000 m3 to do this. Are there any serious balance issues this would bring up if this were done? I seriously hope that I'm not gonna have to buy a 40 Bil Mothership to ferry around my 100 mil Battleship. I would not mind having to package the ship up and put the mods in the corp bay either. Just as long as it fit somehow. Not being able to put packaged ships in the hangar bay is silly, you just can't launch them. However, Motherships can't dock, so you would have to fly to a POS and drop the packaged ship into a ship maintenance bay to unpack them. This shouldn't be a problem, as you have to have a POS to keep the Mothership in. ___________________________________________________ "I'm an engineer, not a miracle worker!" - Scotty, Star Trek: The Original Series
KIAEddZ	Posted - 2006.03.24 16:32:00 - [34] Add to the list of problems please: Whenever I drop anything into the corp hangar, it dissapears. Have to repack the ship to get back what I put in he corp hangar. When in my Chimera, any docking or undocking results in having to reboot Eve. Sigh. KIA Piccys
Ripline	Posted - 2006.03.24 16:36:00 - [35] Originally by: KIAEddZ Add to the list of problems please: Whenever I drop anything into the corp hangar, it dissapears. Have to repack the ship to get back what I put in he corp hangar. When in my Chimera, any docking or undocking results in having to reboot Eve. Sigh. I believe that session change bug when "flying a container" is not limited to carriers. Seemed to happen an awful lot when I was working on moving some POS modules. Namely hangar and maintenance arrays, and carriers got those built in. The game stalls at the preparing navigation thingy, right? It's highly likely specifically that ship maintenance array in there.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.24 17:26:00 - [36] why not just give the drone control units 10k cpu and give carriers and motherships a 99% cpu reduction to it? problem solved, no uber moros Originally by: Tassi Projectile very overpowdered
KIAEddZ	Posted - 2006.03.24 18:05:00 - [37] Add to the list of bugs. Assigned 5 Fighters to a gang member, he warped away with them. I cloaked, and the Drones dissapeared from my "drones in distant space" option, and his, whilst he was in warp, so lost 5 fighters. Dont know if it was the cloaking that triggered this or not. Have petitioned of course. These ships are V bugged. KIA Piccys
KrogothZero	Posted - 2006.03.24 18:15:00 - [38] A work around for putting stuff in the corp hanger is to undock once you have seen it in space you should be able to dock again and see it in the station also but not always.. Another small bug is if someone tries to store their ship in your carrier and it has something in the cargo hold such as ammo it'll not allow the pilot to do it yet if that pilot ejects the ship can be scooped by the carrier pilot fine with the items in the cargo hold.
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.03.24 18:32:00 - [39] Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 24/03/2006 18:34:55 double post 4tl. WTB: The Correct DreadÖ
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.03.24 18:32:00 - [40] Originally by: KIAEddZ Add to the list of bugs. Assigned 5 Fighters to a gang member, he warped away with them. I cloaked, and the Drones dissapeared from my "drones in distant space" option, and his, whilst he was in warp, so lost 5 fighters. Dont know if it was the cloaking that triggered this or not. Have petitioned of course. These ships are V bugged. This is not a bug, Duh Its same with normal drones, you cloak you lose controll. You lose controll, they will halt in space and do nada. WTB: The Correct DreadÖ
Nordmann	Posted - 2006.03.24 18:35:00 - [41] Add to the list of bugs Fighters doesnt move back to your carrier "return and orbit" with mwd!They move with 150 m/s back to your carrier it takes ages for 30 km distance
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.03.24 18:49:00 - [42] Originally by: Nordmann Add to the list of bugs Fighters doesnt move back to your carrier "return and orbit" with mwd!They move with 150 m/s back to your carrier it takes ages for 30 km distance true, thats why i drop a can with 1 unit of whatnot and make my fighters atack it so they mwd back. WTB: The Correct DreadÖ
KIAEddZ	Posted - 2006.03.24 19:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Scalor Valentis Originally by: KIAEddZ Add to the list of bugs. Assigned 5 Fighters to a gang member, he warped away with them. I cloaked, and the Drones dissapeared from my "drones in distant space" option, and his, whilst he was in warp, so lost 5 fighters. Dont know if it was the cloaking that triggered this or not. Have petitioned of course. These ships are V bugged. This is not a bug, Duh Its same with normal drones, you cloak you lose controll. You lose controll, they will halt in space and do nada. And how the fk am I meant to know that? And how do I now find 100 mill of drones sat in space? Totally Stupid. KIA Piccys
Darpz	Posted - 2006.03.24 19:06:00 - [44] just finish releasing the stupid drone stuff. drones require so much SP now we should get all the same benifits as missils and guns. and the argument that the moros with 3 drone control units is to powerful is crap. have you seen what dreads with dual webs do? if anything it would be stupid to fit drone control units on a moros compared to ion cannons and dual officer webs The only good fix is a DEAD fix
Zhon	Posted - 2006.03.24 19:19:00 - [45] Originally by: j0sephine "Everything is really ready for it, works and everything the problem is with the drone control unit. It is just too much pwnage on a Moros." Couldn't this be resolved by having siege mode affect signature resolution of drones in the same way it affects ship turrets? Then Moros can try to 'pwn' with the drones but has to stay out of siege for this (or the drones won't hit jack) ... meaning it can be countered much easier than in siege ... the usual trade-off, pretty much o.O; And or making the Advance Drone Module only fitable by the Carriers since that is what the moduel was intended for in the first place. Much like how the covert ops cloak works. Honestly Dreads have no bussiness fitting the modules they are ment to use there XL to tackle POS and Other capital ships not drones. Think on it the moros woudl probably be mroe effective than the carrier with 8 Ogres and siege mode.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.03.24 19:46:00 - [46] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 24/03/2006 19:47:46 Originally by: Tuxford I can't answer the the other questions but the advanced drone interfacing skill will come in. Everything is really ready for it, works and everything the problem is with the drone control unit. It is just too much pwnage on a Moros. That's an easy one Tux. Carrier-only CPU bonus to fit them. And tbh I have no issues with fighters not hitting frigs. Perhaps a future fighter version which is much lower damage but tracks better could be considered, sure, but current fighters are nasty enough. Lifewire> 8000 m/s, even battleships can do this
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.03.24 20:24:00 - [47] Originally by: Maya Rkell And tbh I have no issues with fighters not hitting frigs. Perhaps a future fighter version which is much lower damage but tracks better could be considered, sure, but current fighters are nasty enough. Also, more options to fighters, like not follow the target everytime they warp, that like ahaving your guns offline for good 60 seconds + everytime your target warps away Or have fighters with warpscrambers instead? WTB: The Correct DreadÖ
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.03.24 20:40:00 - [48] Warp/Not warp should probly be an option. Scrambling drones might be a bit overpowered, but think of say a Minmatar fighter which sacrificed half its gun power for a target painter.. (and same for the other racial EW's) Lifewire> 8000 m/s, even battleships can do this
ZEleamalt	Posted - 2006.03.24 21:31:00 - [49] Originally by: Maya Rkell Warp/Not warp should probly be an option. Scrambling drones might be a bit overpowered, but think of say a Minmatar fighter which sacrificed half its gun power for a target painter.. (and same for the other racial EW's) Yeah, diferent kind of fighters would be nice. About the low tracking, does the tracking enhancer for drones mod work on fighters? About gallente having bonus to damage... gallente is the drone race, and carriers are the main drone ship. No big surprise it is a bit better than the rest (if you want dmg, the amarr one can tank way better etc).
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.03.24 21:35:00 - [50] The Amarr one should make its fighters tank better...not itself... Lifewire> 8000 m/s, even battleships can do this
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.03.24 21:37:00 - [51] Originally by: ZEleamalt Originally by: Maya Rkell Warp/Not warp should probly be an option. Scrambling drones might be a bit overpowered, but think of say a Minmatar fighter which sacrificed half its gun power for a target painter.. (and same for the other racial EW's) Yeah, diferent kind of fighters would be nice. About the low tracking, does the tracking enhancer for drones mod work on fighters? About gallente having bonus to damage... gallente is the drone race, and carriers are the main drone ship. No big surprise it is a bit better than the rest (if you want dmg, the amarr one can tank way better etc). only that these are FIGHTERS, not drones, and acording your logick, Caldari shuld get the damagebonus, instead of fhaglentte. Ghaylentte culd settle for daiting mens 10% or mining capasity... Overpowering something "just because its suposed to be good acording RP" is not valid reason for balancing EVE today. WTB: The Correct DreadÖ
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2006.03.24 21:42:00 - [52] imo its pretty stupid that there can be minmatar fighters on amarr carriers.. or gallente on caldari. it should b race restricted, but so that the fighters are somehow balanced, i meant hat the amarr not only do em dmg. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
ZEleamalt	Posted - 2006.03.24 21:48:00 - [53] Edited by: ZEleamalt on 24/03/2006 21:55:29 Originally by: Scalor Valentis Originally by: ZEleamalt Originally by: Maya Rkell Warp/Not warp should probly be an option. Scrambling drones might be a bit overpowered, but think of say a Minmatar fighter which sacrificed half its gun power for a target painter.. (and same for the other racial EW's) Yeah, diferent kind of fighters would be nice. About the low tracking, does the tracking enhancer for drones mod work on fighters? About gallente having bonus to damage... gallente is the drone race, and carriers are the main drone ship. No big surprise it is a bit better than the rest (if you want dmg, the amarr one can tank way better etc). only that these are FIGHTERS, not drones, and acording your logick, Caldari shuld get the damagebonus, instead of fhaglentte. Ghaylentte culd settle for daiting mens 10% or mining capasity... Overpowering something "just because its suposed to be good acording RP" is not valid reason for balancing EVE today. Sorry? Arent fighters a kind of drones, and are listed under the drones category in market, skills etc?. Amarr got the best tankers, minmatar the faster ships, caldari the uglier ships and best missile boats (stealth bomber is just overpowered compared with the rest). Gallente got the best droneships. EVE ballance is all about RP :P. edit:typo
Nordmann	Posted - 2006.03.24 21:57:00 - [54] archon 5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level chimera 5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level nidhoggur 5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per level thanatos 10% bonus to deployed FightersÆ damage per level 10% bonus for the importantest thing of a carrier is for sure overpowert it should be 5%
Nafri	Posted - 2006.03.24 22:07:00 - [55] Originally by: KIAEddZ Originally by: Scalor Valentis Originally by: KIAEddZ Add to the list of bugs. Assigned 5 Fighters to a gang member, he warped away with them. I cloaked, and the Drones dissapeared from my "drones in distant space" option, and his, whilst he was in warp, so lost 5 fighters. Dont know if it was the cloaking that triggered this or not. Have petitioned of course. These ships are V bugged. This is not a bug, Duh Its same with normal drones, you cloak you lose controll. You lose controll, they will halt in space and do nada. And how the fk am I meant to know that? And how do I now find 100 mill of drones sat in space? Totally Stupid. and I wondered where your drones went
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.03.24 22:52:00 - [56] Ya know what gets me is that the devs reply to topics like this.. more than once even, but dont appear to even read others like the "Autocannon Issues" thread which has reached 6+ pages... Or bothered to post their thoughts about the community's suggestions for the Jaguar, or Vengence. Pretty lame :/
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.03.24 23:24:00 - [57] Originally by: Nordmann archon 5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level chimera 5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level nidhoggur 5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per level thanatos 10% bonus to deployed FightersÆ damage per level 10% bonus for the importantest thing of a carrier is for sure overpowert it should be 5% It's more that it gets a fighter bonus and the others don't. Lifewire> 8000 m/s, even battleships can do this
Kldraina	Posted - 2006.03.24 23:31:00 - [58] Edited by: Kldraina on 24/03/2006 23:32:30 Personally, I think limiting the Moros to 5 drones is silly. It's the big bad Gallente weapon, and it relies heavily on drones, so it should be fielding swarm of them. Possible changes to drone bonus: +1 drone controlled, +15% drone hp and damage per level. (Max skills grants 10 drones with a 75% boost. Same damage output as current). Alternative: +2 drones controlled per level (actually results in lower damage output at max skills). Either of these changes could reduce the effectiveness of a drone control unit on the Moros. P.S. Personally, I'd like it if all the drone ships were rebalanced to allow drone control units to be used on any ship, instead of just the capital ships.
Arch Revenant	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:35:00 - [59] Originally by: Scalor Valentis Originally by: Damien Vox Originally by: Scalor Valentis Originally by: Damien Vox Fighters don't hit hard enough? Say huh? I saw a log of a fighter hitting a battleship for 1100+ dmg lastnight, a single fighter hitting for that much damage. I'd say they do just fine. they miss alot, they net DPS is not that garate... They aren't meant for frigates, that is what you can still carry medium/heavy drones for. I've seen them used on cruisers and above and they seriously shine. If the frigate is webbed they do monsterous damage there as well. It is just like an actual ship, I'm sorry but they do incredible damage as is and I don't exactly see what your complaining about. Using a carrier solo is suicide anyways. they miss alot against all things, not exclusivly against frigates. Scalor, I've had much luck with my fighters hitting consitently against cruisers and above. I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time hitting things. The tracking of fighters does not need to be changed. If it were any better, they would be overpowered. All Hail Spoon! Death to the Fork users!
Arch Revenant	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:38:00 - [60] Edited by: Arch Revenant on 25/03/2006 01:45:06 Originally by: Serendipity007 Originally by: Tuxford I can't answer the the other questions but the advanced drone interfacing skill will come in. Everything is really ready for it, works and everything the problem is with the drone control unit. It is just too much pwnage on a Moros. Doesn't anybody THINK about balance when they introduce new mods? First the Moros gets 30+ drones pre-RMR. Now they get 5, but the drone bonuses make the drones into pwn-machines. Introduce +1 drones controlled module, and now you can have more pwn-machine drones. Dreadnaughts should be damage dealers with GUNS AND LAUNCHERS not DRONES The Moros needs some serious rebalancing if its the primary reason a vital Carrier module skill is not being released. Carriers and Motherships are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to hold large amounts of drones, and fight with them. Drones are the only method of attack with Carriers and Motherships. +1 Drone Control mods make sense. Make the Drone Control mods Carrier/Mothership mod only, or nerf the Moros so that it doesn't get out of balance with the mods, and RELEASE THE SKILL! This is silly, you guys are making SOE style mistakes: Introducing new content without thinking about the imbalance it would cause. This is a dangerous path, and forever it will dominate your destiny, if you don't nip it in the bud right now. Also, a 1.2 Bil "Carrier" ship aught to be able to hold ONE 100 mil "Battleship". The hangar bay would just have to be around 1,250,000 m3 to do this. Are there any serious balance issues this would bring up if this were done? I seriously hope that I'm not gonna have to buy a 40 Bil Mothership to ferry around my 100 mil Battleship. I would not mind having to package the ship up and put the mods in the corp bay either. Just as long as it fit somehow. Not being able to put packaged ships in the hangar bay is silly, you just can't launch them. However, Motherships can't dock, so you would have to fly to a POS and drop the packaged ship into a ship maintenance bay to unpack them. This shouldn't be a problem, as you have to have a POS to keep the Mothership in. I agree 100% The Moros should not be a drone ship. That's what the carrier is for. Change the Moros and introduce the Drone Control Modules for the carriers. All Hail Spoon! Death to the Fork users!

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