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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Eternal Fury	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:27:00 - [1] I appologise for the potential religious ramifications before hand. I dont' mean this to offend people, i just mean it as a humrous post. Online gamer punished with virtual crucifixion If this happened in EvE, there'd be no tree's ANYWHERE Heres a quote Online gamer punished with virtual crucifixion "Humphrey Cheung March 25, 2006 00:01 Banning online players for in-game offenses is common, but a new multiplayer game has gone a step further. Roma Victor, a game set in Roman-controlled Britain, has virtually crucified a player for killing other players repeatedly. Cynewulf, a character played by a Flint Michigan resident, will hang in a public square for seven days. Other players have been stopping by to watch and even taunt Cynewulf." - - "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." H.L. Mencken.
Joran420	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:33:00 - [2] saw this a few days ago...not sure how i feel about it its almost a tribute to hackers and cheaters i like the do not discuss angle better but its a pretty cool concept
Eternal Fury	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:37:00 - [3] I was wary of posting it becuase of what it portrays. I actually like the idea of people who are punished for certain game offenses being put up for public display. The ... form.. of display they picked isn't one I'd choose, but the idea behind it I find amuseing. example would be if someone is caught selling isk/items/ships/accounts online, their in game main would spend a week/month with an NPC char with that name hauling trade goods, spouting off in local ever few minutes that they are trying to repay the corporation they ripped off. :) Or put their face on the billboards we see around gates :) - - "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." H.L. Mencken.
Alexis DeTocqueville	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:39:00 - [4] It's in seriously bad taste, but only slightly more appalling than the practice of frozen corpse collection we have here in EVE.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Alexis DeTocqueville It's in seriously bad taste, but only slightly more appalling than the practice of frozen corpse collection we have here in EVE. The crucifixion makes quite a lot of sense in RP terms, tbh. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Alexis DeTocqueville	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:43:00 - [6] Edited by: Alexis DeTocqueville on 25/03/2006 01:43:44 Originally by: Dark Shikari The crucifixion makes quite a lot of sense in RP terms, tbh. So would rape. Should we start advocating that sexual harassment not be part of a TOS in a game based on ancient Rome solely because it's an anachronism?
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:45:00 - [7] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 25/03/2006 01:45:54 Originally by: Alexis DeTocqueville Originally by: Dark Shikari The crucifixion makes quite a lot of sense in RP terms, tbh. So would rape. Should we start advocating that sexual harassment not be part of a TOS in a game based on ancient Rome solely because it's an anachronism? That's a total, utter non sequitur. I say you're wrong because squirrels like nuts. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Arcadia1701	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:48:00 - [8] I love that, thats one way to get gamers more scared of breaking the rules, rather than banning them, humilate them. Its a rather harsh method u may think, but if they cheat or break the rules, why not?
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:53:00 - [9] the crucifixion is not offending (well maybe to some of those weird christians), but the fact that he got banned for pking is (there is no mention of an exploit). just shows what a crap game it must be.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Keta Min the crucifixion is not offending (well maybe to some of those weird christians), but the fact that he got banned for pking is (there is no mention of an exploit). just shows what a crap game it must be. At least the article I read went into a bit more detail. He was spawnkilling newbies in an area where spawnkilling isn't allowed. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.

Alexis DeTocqueville	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:57:00 - [11] Edited by: Alexis DeTocqueville on 25/03/2006 01:57:47 Originally by: Dark Shikari That's a total, utter non sequitur. I say you're wrong because squirrels like nuts. Oh wow, I must have been mistaken when I learned that the Roman Empire, like other ancient empires, was completely misogynist, and their soldiers committed unspeakable atrocities upon women. You're the one who brought up authenticity. If public crucifixion like that is appropriate solely because it's conforming to the authentic nature of the time the game takes place in, so are other things that we view repulsive today but were completely acceptable then. I will submit the question again, and this time, please answer instead of dodging.
Keta Min	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:58:00 - [12] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Keta Min the crucifixion is not offending (well maybe to some of those weird christians), but the fact that he got banned for pking is (there is no mention of an exploit). just shows what a crap game it must be. At least the article I read went into a bit more detail. He was spawnkilling newbies in an area where spawnkilling isn't allowed. that's an exploit then, fair enough.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.25 01:59:00 - [13] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 25/03/2006 02:00:44 Originally by: Alexis DeTocqueville Originally by: Dark Shikari That's a total, utter non sequitur. I say you're wrong because squirrels like nuts. Oh wow, I must have been mistaken when I learned that the Roman Empire, like other ancient empires, was completely misogynist, and their soldiers committed unspeakable atrocities upon women. You're the one who brought up authenticity. If public crucifixion like that is appropriate solely because it's conforming to the authentic nature of the time the game takes place in, so are other things that we view repulsive today but were completely acceptable then. I will submit the question again, and this time, please answer instead of dodging. I never uttered the word "soley" in my post. Don't put words in my mouth. There's a big difference between crucifixion and rape. One can be depicted in a popular movie, the other can't. Can you guess which? [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Alexis DeTocqueville	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:00:00 - [14] Edited by: Alexis DeTocqueville on 25/03/2006 02:00:25 Originally by: Dark Shikari I never uttered the word "soley" in my post. You didn't add any caveats either.
Sphalerite	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Stupidest Game Company Ever Roma Victor recreates old Britain where people play virtual slaves and citizens in the Roman empire. The game will officially launch in July 2006. WTB mining slave "Some rise by sin, and some by virtue fall"
Gah'khaz	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:02:00 - [16] start stringing up macrominers in jita!!121"!
Malken	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:02:00 - [17] that just shows the inability of the developers to not being able to program in game mechanics that stops people from doing the things that are not allowed in that game. crappy devs, not like the ones we got. in eve everything is allowed as every "illegal" action has a consequence.
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Alexis DeTocqueville Originally by: Dark Shikari I never uttered the word "soley" in my post. You didn't add any caveats either. I never even implied whatsoever that RP was even the primary reason for such a system. I simply mentioned that it made sense RP-wise. You're completely making things up now. [23] Member: Official Forum Warrior What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
Alexis DeTocqueville	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Dark Shikari I never even implied whatsoever that RP was even the primary reason for such a system. I simply mentioned that it made sense RP-wise. Right, and I retorted that so does rape, but our evolved standards of human decency impose a hard limit on how "authentic" roleplaying experiences can be. I think it crosses the line.
Turas Kain	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Gah'khaz start stringing up macrominers in jita!!121"! All in a nice ikkle group so they can be smartbombed to buggery

Sessho Seki	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Eternal Fury I was wary of posting it becuase of what it portrays. I actually like the idea of people who are punished for certain game offenses being put up for public display. The ... form.. of display they picked isn't one I'd choose, but the idea behind it I find amuseing. well, if itÆs in regards to parallels to the crucifixion of Jesus, then itÆs important to know that it was an extremely common practice of the time (both long before and long after) to deal with criminals to be examples to those who would potentially do something that the crucified had done. If the actual act of crucifixion is the problem as a particularly brutal means of public execution, letÆs also not forget the more ôcivilizedö mechanisms such as guillotine, burning at the stake (Jeanne D'Arc got a first hand account), perhaps live disembowelment followed by being beheaded (a la William Wallace), or maybe ôdunking tanksö like those of the Salem Witch Trials (if you drowned, you were an innocent mortal, but if you swam you were a witch and then burned at the stake). Maybe just the good old fashioned hanging is in order. All those are quite public means of dealing with criminals or enemies of the state, and all of which are easily comparable to what was a ôstandardö crucifixion (simply being hung from a cross till one basically dies of exhaustion and suffocation). While not condoning or glorifying such acts, itÆs also arguably beneficial to societal stability to make very clear and public examples of those that would defy the rules of that society. In the vein that it is a game after all, and people playing the game should have the mental fortitude to separate themselves from that virtual world, I believe that the game producers should have the liberty and even the obligation to make it known that those breaking the rules will be dealt with thoroughly, and the added incentive of public displays makes the message not only more clear, but nearly unavoidable, which was the entire point of public execution to begin with. As for the crime(s) fitting the punishment, thatÆs always a hazy area, and several have mentioned here and elsewhere that the person was a player-killer. In EVE, itÆs nearly beyond reason to conceive of it without any sort of PvP situation or punishments arising from killing other players beyond the obvious potential CONCORD retaliation in Empire space or what have you. But if a game has particularly strict rules for when/where PvP can take place, or repeated killing of a player or what have you, then itÆs understandable that such a person violating those rules, even though it would be acceptable here, itÆs not as such there. Since the setting of that game is Roman Era Britain, then as the saying goes ôWhen in Rome, do as the Romans doö, so our established sense of whatÆs acceptable doesnÆt apply to their game world. Regardless of what the people think however, the game producers themselves have found it within reason to prosecute, judge, and indeed execute those found operating outside the rules they have established for the game. So at the end of the day, if you donÆt want to be a public spectacle, then donÆt be a public menace.
SHINJI AKARI	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:31:00 - [22] Thats just complete idiocy. I have never even heard of that game, and i'm pretty up on the goings on of the net. This just wreaks of a tasteless publicity stunt. Unfortunately, it will most likely work. Oh well, wadda ya gunna do? Just have to accept the fact that theres a whole lot of stupid in the world ya know.
Kel Shek	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:33:00 - [23] 1) I'm not christian so crucifixion doesn't have as much personal signifigance/baggage to me as I recognize it would to some. 2) I do not, in principle, object to players who do not follow the in game rules, to be punished in game. 3) I concur with Tachikoma Man, considering the setting, its not THAT far out of line. though it is gutsy. 4) with said gutsiness in mind, in general "no publicity is bad publicity". how many people will have heard of the game from this "buzz" that would not have heard of it before? how many will try it out because they like the company having the nerve to be so gutsy? ect... Quote: the crucifixion is not offending (well maybe to some of those weird christians), but the fact that he got banned for pking is (there is no mention of an exploit). just shows what a crap game it must be. breaking the rules does not inherently mean an exploit, if its against the rules in an area, (though possible) and you do it anyway... being punished is reasonable. its no different than losing your ship to concord in high sec here. and in some cases I can see how banning would be appropriate, even if there was no exploit. crucifixion is NOT inherently that offensive per se. I think most would be offended because they make some rather warped religious connection, or because they feel if the game ALLOWS them to do something, they should be socially permitted to do so because its "in the game". like more realistic physics in EVE... some things would only make stuff harder (and/or less appropriate) without any benefit to speak of. adding other currently socially unacceptable things from that time would not neccesarily add anything useful. having a chacacter crucified as a means of punishment does. specifically punishing that character/player for the unacceptable behavior. Quote: in eve everything is allowed as every "illegal" action has a consequence. ... what? is there some reason being crucified as a consequence to illegal actions, is somehow profoundly different than losing sec status and a ship if you do an illegal action in EVE? Quote: Right, and I retorted that so does rape, but our evolved standards of human decency impose a hard limit on how "authentic" roleplaying experiences can be. I think it crosses the line. simple, honest question in answer to this. ... why? whys that cross the line? capital punishment? would you agree if it were hanging, or guilitine, or drawing and quartering? shooting squad? or are you attaching religious baggage and connotations that are not inherently attached, and that many feel don't belong in a game? or some other reason? (like my rambling above about whats allowed or not in a game) ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
SHINJI AKARI	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:34:00 - [24] Originally by: Keta Min the crucifixion is not offending (well maybe to some of those weird christians), but the fact that he got banned for pking is (there is no mention of an exploit). just shows what a crap game it must be. To be honest, it offends me, but i'm not one of those people that think the world should revolve around me. I'm a Christian, but im not gunna push my beliefs on other people or try to limit other peoples behavior to what I think is acceptable. I don't like what they did at all. I think its ridiculous, but at the same time, they have the right to do it, just like I have the right to say I don't like it. And so it is.
Gamer4liff	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:36:00 - [25] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 25/03/2006 02:40:06 I agree with DS on this one, Jesus was not the only person to get crucified. It was a common roman practice. It makes plenty of sense from an RP standpoint. This is freaking hilarious if you ask me. Oh and it was in out of pod first.
Alexis DeTocqueville	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Kel Shek simple, honest question in answer to this. ... why? whys that cross the line? capital punishment? would you agree if it were hanging, or guilitine, or drawing and quartering? shooting squad? Mainly it has to do with the public "tar and feathering" scheme they have going. CCP deals with account bans privately and doesn't disclose that information to anybody of what the actions they take are. I think putting someone on display for everybody to laugh at online is a twisted stunt that combines a high school popularity contest mentality with the schadenfraude of the internet.
SHINJI AKARI	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:42:00 - [27] I already see the posts arguing about the correlation between crucifixation and Jesus, and how its ok what they did because it was historically accurate of that time period. They new exactly what they were doing. It was random when they picked crucifixion. There were tons of different types of corporal punishment that would also be historically accurate that they could have used. Also, you would have to live in a 3rd world country to have have Jesus Christ and crucifixion not form a mental link in your brain. It's the same as Joan of Ark and being burned at the stake. If they would have chosen being burned at the stake people would have thought of her. I may be wrong, but i'm sure the producers of that game knew exactly what they were doing, they knew it was going to be controversial, they new it would get alot of attention, and they didn't care about ****ing off Christians.
Naleb Cilani	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:45:00 - [28] There are more adult (as 21 or older to play) MMO's than this Rome game. It's no big deal. With ***and perma death might I add. Quote:** if the repeatedly stated (not by players mind you) rules of the game don't agree with your "vision" of what this game ought to be... get lost.
Kel Shek	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Alexis DeTocqueville Originally by: Kel Shek simple, honest question in answer to this. ... why? whys that cross the line? capital punishment? would you agree if it were hanging, or guilitine, or drawing and quartering? shooting squad? Mainly it has to do with the public "tar and feathering" scheme they have going. CCP deals with account bans privately and doesn't disclose that information to anybody of what the actions they take are. I think putting someone on display for everybody to laugh at online is a twisted stunt that combines a high school popularity contest mentality with the schadenfraude of the internet. now that I can see. I think its a reasonable objection, (as opposed to religion based ones) but I don't entirely agree. I don't entirly disagree either. I mean it comes down to taking responsibility for your actions, just like in EVE. I think its "ok" that there are things you can do that will have a punishment like that. "why allow such things to be done? if its that objectable why allow it at all!" why allow people to shoot others in 1.0 sec at all? its the same principle. did they conciously pick a contraversial method of punishment? sure. in a practical sense a pillory would be sufficient.... but it wouldn't fit the setting as well. if you(generically) are offended from the religious angle on this issue... why? they aren't crucifying someone for being a mystically endowed hippie that the goverment finds threatening... they are using a punishment that was used frequently during the time period the game is set in, to punish a criminal. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Alexis DeTocqueville	Posted - 2006.03.25 02:54:00 - [30] Quote: if you(generically) are offended from the religious angle on this issue... why? they aren't crucifying someone for being a mystically endowed hippie that the goverment finds threatening... they are using a punishment that was used frequently during the time period the game is set in, to punish a criminal. You've mentioned this three times without any indication from me that I am, in fact, coming at it from this angle. Do you have an axe to grind or something?



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