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Setantii
Conquistador.
2
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Posted - 2014.01.20 15:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Simple suggestion - I wonder if it would be possible to introduce a market to buy and sell Loyalty Points?
A market would allow capsuleers short on isk to offload their L.P to traders like myself willing to take them.
Would there be any negatives from being able to trade in L.P?
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Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
60
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 I have 10,000 LP in a faction that I will probably never mission for again. Plus I don't like market math, I'd rather someone just lowball me the value of my LP and reap the benefits of my laziness. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
1303
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1.
Although you can kind of do it if you find somebody who will tell you "buy me item X and I will give you Y ISK for it" I happen to have small amounts of LP in quite a few stores and all I could buy for it is junk not worth the trouble. But I have no idea about economy and stuff so my +1 is purely selfish and I won't take responsibility for any crisis this change/feature may unleash :)
I am not my skills but...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
445
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 16:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
-1
LP are awarded for loyalty. It doesn't make sense for the corporation in question to payout if some complete stranger walks into the LP store with your loyalty points.
Fleet Bookmarks
New Gravimetric Sites
Med Clones 2.0 |
Reinforced Metal Scrap
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lore-wise it wouldn't make sense. How would you even buy and sell a corporation's favor towards you?
What I'd like to see however would be converting LPs between different corporations of the same faction. This way the LP would stay in the family, so to speak. The ratio could be fixed and unfavorable like 2:1 or set by players via an exchange market.
Dedicated forum alt. Ingredients: 99.9% Pure Tritanium. May contain traces of peanuts. |
Gallali Egidall
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2014.01.20 17:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
If it doesn't make sense in a lore manner, perhaps allow contract-type exchanges that can be set up. Buyers put up orders in a particular LP store and sellers request the item and use it to fill the contract.
You could have a "corp wide" range, ranges by sec status ("High sec only, high + low, etc), and then limited to a particular station.
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
1304
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Posted - 2014.01.20 17:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
ESS will produce tags exchangeable for ISK so here is your in-lore solution: let me exchange LP for tags and I will sell them with contracts. And if I have 8324 LP I can get one 5k LP tag for it because it will be better than having 20 places of useless LP across galaxy.
And of course loyalty can be paid out in tags, what else are those gift cards you get as a Christmas bonus at your work? Beside lore cannot be ultimate excuse to not do reasonable things. It is enough that we have "legacy code" to live with.
I am not my skills but...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
61
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Posted - 2014.01.20 19:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
We're really concerned with lore here?
So. When I'm in a station there are a group of people maintaining a vast stock of ships (at every station I have LP for) in the form of a store for the faction that station represents. There is a desk with 50 BPCs sitting on it for that tempest fleet issue, and a couple storage lockers full of phased plasma s? So what I'm hearing is: oh no, you'll break my immersion by being able to sell loyalty?
When I get a gas discount for being a loyal customer at my local grocery store all they ask is that the receipt with the discount be used at a participating gas station. I can give that receipt to anyone that wants to save money on gas... I'm not seeing a problem here.
We can already pay CONCORD to ignore aggression against corps. I'm not seeing this as much of a stretch. Besides, my reward for loyalty is the standings not the LP. The LP is just another form currency. |
Aliventi
Southern Cross Empire
Flying Dangerous
641
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Posted - 2014.01.20 19:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
The great thing about lore is you can change it to make sense with whatever you want to do. So anyone have a real argument?
"tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
249
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 01:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:-1
LP are awarded for loyalty. It doesn't make sense for the corporation in question to payout if some complete stranger walks into the LP store with your loyalty points.
So what ?
Loyalty points are already treated more as a currency than a measure of loyalty. They bear more resemblance to scrip than anything else. It even fits the purpose of scrip, as it's used to pay capsuleers in something other than ISK.
It's not like the lore treats capsuleers as being loyal to anything but their own wallets.
As someone in faction warfare, I've got a list of things I don't like about the current way to cash out LP. All of which can be fixed if there was an LP market, as I could just outsource it all to someone else:
- Deciding which items are the best to cash out with takes more market research than I enjoy. This is the best site I've found to help but the highest sell order ratios are items that probably won't sell and, while the highest buy order ratios are for items that will sell, but if I'm making my own sell order I can often find better items further down the list.
- Even once I've picked an item, I often buy too much of it. Trying to find a good quantity not fun for me, and finding one just means I'll have to pick another item to cash out with.
- FW NPC stations are usually not trade hub stations. Which means that if I want a good price I'll have to either haul the stuff out myself while at war when I know there is usually an enemy or two in the trade hubs I'm flying to or fly it with an alt I do not have. Remember, FW was designed as a way for players to learn PvP. Including players new to Eve who want to PvP, not to haul stuff around.
- Some of the goods, like navy cap boosters, are very bulky. Which means the hauling will need to be done with an industrial. Which many new players to FW will not have trained for a while.
If I could trade LP, then I'd just sell my LP to someone else and let them worry about those details. Chances are they will enjoy the trading side a lot more than I do. Sure, I'll get a bit less for my LP than I would if I did it myself, but that's an acceptable cost for my convenience.
Two other beneficial side effects of an LP market:
- Increased ISK sink from the taxes of the LP market.
- High sec missioners now have more transparency about which corps are more profitable to run missions for, as the ISK:LP ratio is the main difference and it will now be visible. Which will lead to missioners spreading out a bit as where they clump up the oversupply will lead to lower ISK:LP ratios for that corp. |
Rendiff
Funk Soul Brothers
High Rollers
47
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Posted - 2014.01.21 02:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Eve has lore? |
Anomaly One
182
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Posted - 2014.01.21 04:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
+1, really, lore ?
it makes perfect sense in the land of backstabbing and espionage to sell your loyalty points to others :p
And gives a chance for not everyone that wants to calculate every single LP item...
Never forget.
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Trust me, I'm an Anomaly.
DUST 514 FOR PC |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2128
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Posted - 2014.01.21 04:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:+1, really, lore ?
it makes perfect sense in the land of backstabbing and espionage to sell your loyalty points to others :p
And gives a chance for not everyone that wants to calculate every single LP item...
The empires have perfect control on how much they like you, why would they not be able to keep track of how much LP you have (or lack there of) you have.
Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
250
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 04:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Anomaly One wrote:+1, really, lore ?
it makes perfect sense in the land of backstabbing and espionage to sell your loyalty points to others :p
And gives a chance for not everyone that wants to calculate every single LP item... The empires have perfect control on how much they like you, why would they not be able to keep track of how much LP you have (or lack there of) you have.
Here is a better question: Why should the Empires care if the capsuleer spending the LP is the same one who earned it or a different capsuleer who acquired it legally ? |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
CODE.
3268
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Posted - 2014.01.21 05:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
LP is awarded like tokens. LP does NOT measure how much they like you- that's what standings are for. LP absolutely should be able to be traded, because they are effectively like tokens you are given, kind of like the old mining tokens people would get for working in corporate owned mines, but they didn't get real money. They used these tokens to buy their food, lodging, etc. It is pretty much exactly the same thing.
All we have to decide on is HOW they are traded.
Currently, people sell LP by buying items to trade. This is ridiculous. You should be able to to sell your LP to a player, who can then use them to buy stuff. The same stuff gets bought, the same LP exists, it's just like trading IOU's, or any other alternative currency.
I suggest CCP just make this EASY. Allow players to journal LP like shares from one player to the next. Let the players decide what it is worth. Let people make websites, etc. It'll take some Dev like 15 mins to do this and we are done with the issue.
See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
250
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 08:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:I suggest CCP just make this EASY. Allow players to journal LP like shares from one player to the next. Let the players decide what it is worth. Let people make websites, etc. It'll take some Dev like 15 mins to do this and we are done with the issue.
Players won't really care about who they trade it to, only how much the LP is worth. I see no reason to treat them as anything beyond just another item on the market and contracts. Give players an interface they are familiar with. The market and contracts system do not require third party websites to function well.
At most, the only change will be to make the location irrelevant. |
Jint Hikaru
Truly Transdimensional
The Nova Foundry
1103
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 09:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:-1
LP are awarded for loyalty. It doesn't make sense for the corporation in question to payout if some complete stranger walks into the LP store with your loyalty points.
Exactly this....
Its like Air Miles.
Loyalty Points are rewards to YOU for your loyalty to a corporation/entity. It makes no seance and to be honest there really isn't a good reason for this.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
131
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 11:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
-1 from me.
You can't buy or sell loyalty. If you have LP use them up on goods and sells the goods. Having made a choice to run missions for a corp gained you a reward in LP. If that wasn't the best choice then cash in as best you can and move on in my opinion.
This would effectively allow a character to run missions anywhere without having to think who they are running the missions for. I prefer that people have to think about where they mission. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
69
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 14:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
I run missions when there aren't a lot of corp mates on. I don't care who I'm running for and the only time I spend my LP is to pull a faction ship out and set it in a hanger.
So what I'm saying is that I effectively run missions anywhere and I don't think about who I'm running for.
Also, the market would sort itself out on that. If Quafe LP sold for 700 isk / LP and Theology Council sold for 1200 isk / LP (trending market data). People would get the gist...
Edit: I still don't get that this breaks immersion for some people. Think of the value of a rookie corp (a couple of friends) pooling to get their first faction battleship or battlecruiser. I think that's a more valueable story than 'you can't sell loyalty.'
Also, you can sell loyalty. You can buy your way into citizenship in a number of countries, if you pay me more at my job than my competitors you are 'buying' my loyalty. -1 for unsound logic. |
Mike Mulder
Imperial Phoenix Legion
24
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Posted - 2014.01.21 15:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
It's not like you're actually buying faction standing, although that precedent is already set thanks to sec status tags.
I would like this just to get rid of the small amount of LPs that I have as leftovers from factions I probably won't mission for again. For example, I have 29 and 130ish LPs from two factions I don't mission for any more. Those LPs will just sit in my wallet, taunting me forever. 
You can already sell your faction gear from the LP stores...what's the difference? |
Jint Hikaru
Truly Transdimensional
The Nova Foundry
1106
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 15:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:Also, you can sell loyalty. You can buy your way into citizenship in a number of countries, if you pay me more at my job than my competitors you are 'buying' my loyalty. -1 for unsound logic.
Um... nothing here is you getting paid money to transfer a loyalty standing that you've generated with an entity (LPs), to another person. Which is the topic under discussion here.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
251
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 03:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Swiftstrike1 wrote:-1
LP are awarded for loyalty. It doesn't make sense for the corporation in question to payout if some complete stranger walks into the LP store with your loyalty points. Exactly this.... Its like Air Miles. Loyalty Points are rewards to YOU for your loyalty to a corporation/entity. It makes no sense and to be honest there really isn't a good reason for this. EDIT: Also what the guy says below my post.
Comparing to air-miles doesn't work at all. There are already too many differences
In RL the customer/client is the traveler. In Eve, the corporation is the customer/client. Which means that in Eve LP flows from the customer. In RL air-miles flow to the customer.
LP flowing in the opposite direction is a very big difference. So big that your comparison does not hold.
But my comparison with scrip, that does hold. Scrip was used to pay workers instead of cash. LP is used to pay capsuleers instead of cash. In both cases, it's flowing to the person that provides the service. The differences between scrip and Eve LP all come in what you can do with them after you have acquired them.
Besides, lore should never be an excuse for bad gameplay. Do you have any gameplay arguments for preventing LP trading ? |
Loyalty Points
Loyalty Points Wallet
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 19:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
As something of an authority on the subject, I don't think this is a good idea. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
252
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Loyalty Points wrote:As something of an authority on the subject, I don't think this is a good idea.
What makes you an authority on the subject ? |
Tsobai Hashimoto
Evil Monkey Asylum
Evil Monkeys Asylum
188
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 23:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Swiftstrike1 wrote:-1
LP are awarded for loyalty. It doesn't make sense for the corporation in question to payout if some complete stranger walks into the LP store with your loyalty points.
If it worked like that then
A) why can I swap back in forth between minnies and amarr or caldari FW all I want? or even gal if i join a corp....
B) why can i still dock in Hek TLF, and spend my minnie LP WHILE in Amarr FW, and currently killing Minnies, even wanted by the faction police, that cant seem to dock in Hek TLF where they are stationed from LOL
EVE has no LORE |
Bald Beauty
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 21:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sounds like a good suggestion to me. |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
254
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 21:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
With the Encounter Surveillance System providing LP to nullsec ratters, how will my complaints about cashing out LP apply to nullsec ratters ? |
voetius
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
183
|
Posted - 2014.01.24 22:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
Loyalty Points wrote:As something of an authority on the subject, I don't think this is a good idea.
You created a character with a gimmick name, that's not the same as an argument.
+1 supported |
Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
255
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 22:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
If adjusting the code to make LP tradeable is too difficult for CCP due to it being questionable legacy code, here is a possible workaround:
- Create a consumable item that costs LP, and when used provides the user with that much LP for the same corp.
- List all these LP tokens on the market.
While this is a physical item, this will not cause problems with my complaints about LP and new pilots because the LP tokens will not need to be moved if created at the right station. People will pay more ISK for the LP tokens at the station they plan to spend the LP at than they would at a trade hub, because any token purchases at a trade hub need to be hauled back to a station of that corp. (excluding corps which have a trade hub in one of their stations).
So any player who just spends their LP on tokens in the most popular of their corps stations should just sell them there. |
Setantii
Conquistador.
11
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 20:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bump for my suggestion, anybody else in favour? |
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