Missile-based shield hulls just tend to suck, period. It just goes to show that a previously great weapon system (RLML) can save a horrible hull like the Caracal.

Missile-based shield hulls just tend to suck, period. It just goes to show that a previously great weapon system (RLML) can save a horrible hull like the Caracal.

None of the T1 cruiser hulls lend themselves to easy fitting options.

Many missile hulls manifestly do not suck at all. I understand the frustration of trying to mix tank and gank in a T1 cruiser hull, it's basically not possible (probably by design). But any T2 or battlecruiser can do it.

The numbers I see in EveHQ make me think that RLML is verging on overpowered again.

Proponents in this thread should be happy.

None of the T1 cruiser hulls lend themselves to easy fitting options.

Many missile hulls manifestly do not suck at all. I understand the frustration of trying to mix tank and gank in a T1 cruiser hull, it's basically not possible (probably by design). But any T2 or battlecruiser can do it.

The numbers I see in EveHQ make me think that RLML is verging on overpowered again.

Proponents in this thread should be happy.

I presume by "any" you mean the Cerberus as it is the only T2 shield hull with RLML bonuses.
No Shield Battle cruiser has RLML bonuses.

I'd say that leaves VERY limited hulls for which RLML would be the optimal choice.

It's certainly a short list, to be sure (and most only have a single light missile-related bonus):

Bellicose ... G£ö
Caracal ... G£ö
Caracal Navy ... G£ö
Cerberus ... G£ö
Gila ... G£ö
Huginn ... G£ö
Onyx ... G£ö
Osprey Navy ... G£ö
Tengu ... G£ö
Sacrilege ... G£ö
Scythe Fleet Issue ... G£ö

I don't want to get bogged down in another missile thread right now, and I do give them credit for trying to tweak this the changes seem sensible, but RLML is always going to be a niche weapon now and by default that turns those hulls that rely on it into niche hulls as well... we didn't just use it out of preference some of us relied on it to make ships like the Caracal viable, because the alternatives were not fit for pvp. Like he said HAM Caracal is near impossible to fit without perfect missile and fitting skills, anything less and you have dreadful tank and damage application, and relatively low dps. I dont remember exactly and I haven't even bothered to undock for a fight in ages but the last time I tried to fit a HAM Caracal with my skills I think I was getting 11k ehp tank and even with expensive t1 faction missiles the dps wasn't good either.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Gila is now an extremely capable ship. ASB, RLML, ogre II. Bring it on!

Not sure but didn't you specify T2 cruiser and battlecruiser. As the discussion I responded with was specifically "SHIELD MISSILE" (due to the response to Arthurs post "Missile based shield hulls tend to suck" , ok I missed the Hugin and Onyx (haven't seen an Onyx in so long forgot they had missile bonus), Tengu is a T3, Scarilege is Armour. The rest are faction and T1.


But by all means, if you want to change the whole context of the post - who am, I to interfere. Oh and as the Gila is a Drone Boat, missile bonus is a secondary weapon . fyi, Gila has always been good at what it does.

Mournful, could you explain how you see the light missile bonus on the Gila as being useful with Ogres? Imo, using Ogres the missile bonus to lights is no help at all, now an explosion velocity bonus might be very helpful or even in this case a Rof bonus.

Users of the gila will know very well that this ship can carry enough variation of drones to be effective against any class of ship. Before the advent of rapid lights, it had only one weapon system capable of engaging frigates optimally. Now it can engage all classes of ship with full damage application.

The same is true of the rattlesnake with rapid heavies. It's now an extremely capable anti-cruiser powerhouse. I might even get one.

Bring back RLM to the way they were. Part of the reason why so many people are flocking to sentry ships is that the current state of RLM (and missiles in general) is abysmal. A 35s reload time is just putting lipstick on a pig.

Realistically, as this has been requested since pre-Rubicon - I just don't see it happening...

People @ CCP like their ASB weapons for some reason. Maybe it is the massive caldari hate present there. I'll be some of them refer to the caldari as the NPCing race. On the other hand this is probably just CCP having no idea what to do with missiles across the board.

yeah the higher dps on RLML's is nice, but honestly the 40 second reload time makes it feel more like a practical joke than a useful thing. Forget the caracal for a moment...the cerberus *should* put out 500 dps or so with any given weapons system and 600-700 dps or more with the HAM's. This would put it on par with the other hac's for dps who have a normal 5-10 sec reload time (or instant for amarr). But the fact that your dps is actually half that due to reload time means that it is bad.

I mean of course I'll change my tune if Artillery gets a 40 second reload time in exchange for a 3 round magazine and 30% more alpha. The crying would be amazing and heads would roll. But **** caldari apparently.

None of the T1 cruiser hulls lend themselves to easy fitting

Indeed; I always thought the biggest nerf from RLM didn't come from the new launcher mechanics, but from the additional fitting requirements that were added. The lost EHP and utility from the new fitting requirements really bites.

People @ CCP like their ASB weapons for some reason. Maybe it is the massive caldari hate present there. I'll be some of them refer to the caldari as the NPCing race. On the other hand this is probably just CCP having no idea what to do with missiles across the board.

yeah the higher dps on RLML's is nice, but honestly the 40 second reload time makes it feel more like a practical joke than a useful thing. Forget the caracal for a moment...the cerberus *should* put out 500 dps or so with any given weapons system and 600-700 dps or more with the HAM's. This would put it on par with the other hac's for dps who have a normal 5-10 sec reload time (or instant for amarr). But the fact that your dps is actually half that due to reload time means that it is bad.

I mean of course I'll change my tune if Artillery gets a 40 second reload time in exchange for a 3 round magazine and 30% more alpha. The crying would be amazing and heads would roll. But **** caldari apparently.

You can do a cerberus with 730 dps with t2 scourge rages and 3 hob ll's, around 850ish overheated. You have to have almost god like fitting skills, some implants and you have to train up your missiles related skills to 4's and 5's. Rigs consist of t2 rigor and t2 em hardener. With my skills, rages have 134 explosion radius 34km range ( good for hitting cruisers). If you use javelins you get 78 explosion radius ( for dessies?) 50+ range @ 500dps. However with faction scourge you get 78 explosion radius and 40km range @ 620-630 dps, 720 oh. You can only get this dps using an afterburner, if you use mwd youll be short on pg and will have to drop a bcu to fit a power diagnostic unit. dps drops by 85 on all missile types. Ehp is pathetic : 20-21k ehp, but then again you can fix with shield boosters. A full cycle of those (overheated ) should give you an extra 15k ehp buffer. 5 mids minus 2 for point and prop.

I think the issue for most players is with the Caracal. Once you start getting into the $200-$300 million range, you have a lot more options for both DPS and tank.

After playing with the module a bit I find that I both like and hate it. The ammo swap problem is the main issue I have with the current rlml. The ability to select a damage type is one if the defining traits for missiles and this feature makes it impractical to use that trait. The alternative (heavy missles) is poor enough to perhaps keep rlmls in play but that should not be interpreted as happiness with the rlml. Please consider fixing the ammo swap, if that were done the module woukd be in a much better place.

The best solution woudl be what one guy suggested. To reload full set of missiles.. 35 seconds. To replace 1 missile only (U used only 1 before reload) you spend 35/20 seconds... in other words.. time of reload linear to the ammount that need to be reloaded.

The best solution woudl be what one guy suggested. To reload full set of missiles.. 35 seconds. To replace 1 missile only (U used only 1 before reload) you spend 35/20 seconds... in other words.. time of reload linear to the ammount that need to be reloaded.

The big problem with this is that currently you have two options in the drop down, one for reloading the same and one for switching to a new type. If we did what you're talking about we would need three options, one for reloading current ammo to full, one for swapping to new kind of ammo but same amount of charges, and one for swapping to new type of ammo at max charges. We could do that, but it would add anywhere from one to several rows to the right click menu and would also probably be pretty confusing to a lot of users.

I would prefer if we could find something like making the reload time only 10 seconds unless you have a weapon timer. This exact solution doesn't work because of how NPC timer works, but from the user perspective it's much cleaner. We wouldn't have to clog up any menus or make any new explanations about how the mechanic worked.

I would prefer if we could find something like making the reload time only 10 seconds unless you have a weapon timer.

please stop adding arbitrary rules just because it somehow balances things. Soon we will have ships which move slower with aggression timers etc. Try to explain that to a noob. Eve ships don't cast magic fireballs, those are weapons out of a scifi universe. The less explainable and arbitrary the mechanic is the more immersion breaking and less new player friendly it is.

tell that to doomsday devices not working in low sec :P Or motherships unable to use drones.