Hello

I posted an update recently in the old rapid missile thread on this topic but I assume many of you haven't been watching that so I'm making a new thread for the time being with some updates for 1.1.

.............

We were looking at a really wide range of options for these systems since the initial reaction was so negative, but over the last few weeks we started seeing more and more people adjust to using them and even start liking them, so, rather than make drastic changes so quickly we want to give it more time and see what happens with usage and feedback over the next couple months. Large changes are still on the table and I won't be finished with this until we address the ammo swapping issue.

Thanks for reading and responding

Please focus on the part of the post where I said we considered bigger changes because of how people felt about the extended reload in general, but decided to make a tweak and wait for more data and feedback rather than reversing things too quickly.

If you want to help us out on this topic, try to give specific reasons or examples and then just hang in there and watch for updates heading into the next few months.

Also, a small response to the comparison with jamming: I think parts of the experience are obviously the same (not being able to fire for a period of time), but there a lot of other parts to compensate (or at least that is the idea). With RML you get to choose when that period of time will be, you get to control a lot of factors that contribute to how significant that period of time is (how your ship is fit, where you're located in space, what targets you choose etc), and you get the huge benefit of very high front-loaded damage. Not disregarding the fact that not being able to shoot doesn't feel good, just pointing out that they are different situations in some important ways.

"We have one good weapon system so lets make it **** so it matches the others"

Now clean the mess Rise

We're not allowed to focus on the part where you proposed a silly, we told you it was a silly, you did the silly, and we all still hate the silly?

Please do not focus on the part where a developer proposed a terrible idea that was not only terrible but impossible to implement workarounds for from a technical perspective. Oh and by the way the workaround involves it somehow taking less time to unload 20 missiles and then load 20 new missiles into a launcher than it takes to put 20 missiles into an empty launcher. Because that makes sense! If you implement your "fix" will we also be able to put containers inside of containers inside of containers? Because personally I've always resented that little pop-up that appears telling me that "PHYSICS SAYS NO."

How about you just change rapid launchers back into normal launchers that happen to use smaller missiles and call it a day? You know, because you won't have to bug fifty programmers to implement some nonsensical workaround for a problem that should never exist in the first place, and we can all enjoy shooting hardly-interrupted streams of missiles at things again? I swear to god reading these forums is like spending your day in an insane asylum sometimes, but weirder.

Please focus on the part of the post where I said we considered bigger changes because of how people felt about the extended reload in general, but decided to make a tweak and wait for more data and feedback rather than reversing things too quickly.

Miz's guide to fixing your own RLML
With 1.1 stats

1. Split your launchers into 2 groups
2. Start shooting with one of the groups
3. After roughly 40s of shooting start the 2nd group
4. When the first group hits reload, let it reload and start shooting right away
5. Enjoy sustained dps

Protip: If you start with 2 different ammo types you can start shooting with the one that matches your target's resishole while reloading the other one to the correct damage type.

(plus they can repair heat damage at the same time TRIPLING the efficiency!!!!)

Miz's guide to fixing your own RLML
With 1.1 stats

1. Split your launchers into 2 groups
2. Start shooting with one of the groups
3. After roughly 40s of shooting start the 2nd group
4. When the first group hits reload, let it reload and start shooting right away
5. Enjoy sustained dps

Protip: If you start with 2 different ammo types you can start shooting with the one that matches your target's resishole while reloading the other one to the correct damage type.

Awesome idea, will be cool dps with that idea, not firing the first 20s with 50% of the guns!

@Rise: Well I do see a problem with the rapid damage type change - probably the same you do, when you allow people to change ammo type within a smaller timeframe then people would exploit this to change to ammo B and back to ammo A. I get the idea of it, high initial damage but less dps due to reload time. But wouldnt it make more sense to give the missiles a higher damage, lower ROF and higher velocity. So that you get a high alpha, fast application and no issues with reload time, damage type, etc.? You could make that work at least for the BS sized RM...

Just an idea.

I originally proposed that ammo changing should work like this:

you change ammo instantly (or in 5/10 seconds, but isnt there enough waiting), but if you have 1 charge left before reload your new ammo type will still have 1 charge left before reload.

ALMOST! >You cannot repair heat damage while reloading.

Awesome idea, will be cool dps with that idea, not firing the first 20s with 50% of the guns!

all posts are not created equal, all opinions do not carry the same weight. if you want to change things then it is YOUR responsibility to come up with reasonable and valid reasons and counter arguments and put those arguments under scrutiny of the developers and of your peers.

you know... like how the re-balance team does every time they announce changes by posting one of these threads, its not like we hurl abuse at them like toddlers when we don't get our way.

HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

...seriously?

Comes into a thread accusing me of not providing useful criticism, after I and a quadrillion other posters all provided Rise constructive criticism only to be repeatedly ignored outright. Then gives me a stern talking to about blaming a dev for the ideas that that dev introduced to the community and that that dev then proceeded to ram through despite massive community outcry from people like me who have been paying for, playing, and providing ideas and constructive criticism for for eight years.

Seriously.

This just happened.

CLEARLY the reason this thread exists and concessions are being made is that the usage stats on these rapid launchers indicate people's general displeasure with the changes. If the "majority-of-players-who-are-definitely-not-represented-by-Ganthrithor's-views-or-the-views-of-any-other-8000-people-who-don't-favor-these-changes" approved of the 1.0 changes, this thread would not exist. If Rise were at all confident that these proposed 1.1 changes would solve things, he wouldn't be leaving the possibility of "other major changes down the road" on the table.

Kindly find a more acceptable object for your white-knighting, sir.

Hello

I posted an update recently in the old rapid missile thread on this topic but I assume many of you haven't been watching that so I'm making a new thread for the time being with some updates for 1.1.

The basic gist is that we aren't satisfied with some of the pain points resulting from the change (especially ammo swapping) and want to continue to iterate until they are in the best possible place. For this patch we weren't able to get in a fix for the ammo swapping. We tried a few versions and all of them had enough issues that we didn't feel comfortable deploying. For 1.1 we are going to do the following:

All rapid missile launchers will have 35 second reload timers rather than 40 seconds

Rapid Light Missile launchers will have their capacity increased to 20 missiles per magazine for tech 2 and 19 missiles per magazine for tech 1

Rapid Heavy Missile launchers will have their capacity increased to 25 missiles per magazine for tech 2 and 24 missiles per magazine for tech 1

This change is meant to increase their power slightly, and make them feel a little better to use by cutting down the reload time.

We were looking at a really wide range of options for these systems since the initial reaction was so negative, but over the last few weeks we started seeing more and more people adjust to using them and even start liking them, so, rather than make drastic changes so quickly we want to give it more time and see what happens with usage and feedback over the next couple months. Large changes are still on the table and I won't be finished with this until we address the ammo swapping issue.

Thanks for reading and responding