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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Darth Tom
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Posted - 2003.09.12 17:22:00 -
[31]
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Yes, pods have a tendency to hang around and talk smack for hours after their ship has been destroyed (bored?). Atleast before that wasn't a problem in 0.0 space. Now you can't even get rid of them there.
if you want to be a pirate, then BE it, it's a shame trying to keep positive sec while pirating.
This does not just affect pirates.
(also a reply to Lickspittle's post - sorry for not quoting you!)
Say you're having a turf war against an alliance. Maximum of 3 wars declared by your corp at once, remember?
What if the alliance has 5 members? You're stuffed.
How much of that recent fun in Stain/Fountain would have happened if everyone was taking a sec hit when they podded?
It's not a pirate/non-pirate issue - it's a playability issue.
Cheers,
TOM
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Darth Tom
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Posted - 2003.09.12 17:28:00 -
[32]
Quote:
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Fixed a rounding error in the solarsystem security level calculations. This will stop people from being punished for crimes they commit in some border solarsystems in non-empire space.
From the patchlog of the upcomming patch.
Thanks, Redundancy, I appreciate you taking the time to post.
However, this is at odds with the following:
Quote:
1204
Destroying a capsule (pod killing) of an innocent player will now always make players loose security status. This was not happening in non-empire space where outlaws and mega corporations have set foot.<
Which is what has kicked off the current voicing of concern.
It shouldn't even be an issue about whether a player is 'innocent' or not (and I feel that's a bit of a woolly definition :-) They're all born sinners, you know 
0.0 sec space is outside Concords reach - you should never get a sec hit for any activities there.
To do so just doesn't jibe with the way space is divided up, and doesn't fit within the game.
Cheers,
TOM
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.12 17:29:00 -
[33]
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Yes, pods have a tendency to hang around and talk smack for hours after their ship has been destroyed (bored?). Atleast before that wasn't a problem in 0.0 space. Now you can't even get rid of them there.
if you want to be a pirate, then BE it, it's a shame trying to keep positive sec while pirating.
It's not about being a pirate. Let's say your corporation is out there setting up it's lovely little mobile refinery. m0o, being more intelligent than you give them credit for, sends a few of their n00b members in pods to lay about reporting when your defenses are their weakest.
Your sentry guns won't attack a pod. And you now have a couple spies hanging about reporting troop strength and composition back to Stavros who's waiting for when you have the fewest combat vessels in the area. Till then, he's off trading/mining/killing people. Pod the n00bs and you're not coming back to security space for a while.
Got an agent in Fountain or Curse? I doubt it. People in their hysteria to eliminate all things 'Not Nice' keep shooting themselves and other legit corps in the foot. Because, by nature, hysteria blinds them. Will this actually 'punish' the 'bad guys'? No, they're the 'bad guys'. They are fully capable of existing outside empire space and have no problem using alts to take advantage of empire space.
Who it'll hurt are those people attempting to run extended operations outside empire space while still based inside it. And personally I doubt I have enough fuel in my flamethrower for when all the threads pop up screaming about how screwed you are that you can't eliminate spies any more.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.09.12 17:56:00 -
[34]
set a book mark 300km away, warp to there, cloaking back, a great ambush set up
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.12 18:00:00 -
[35]
Quote:
set a book mark 300km away, warp to there, cloaking back, a great ambush set up
Why bother? Pods are cheaper than anything in the game.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Mustafa Ken'Yova
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Posted - 2003.09.12 19:28:00 -
[36]
I think the idea of losing security status in 0.0 space is good only when done for podkilling, because podding is something only done to collect bounties and / or to annoy someone else.
Losing sec. status should NOT come when players fire back in defense, period.
...... |
NGRU Vulture
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Posted - 2003.09.12 19:46:00 -
[37]
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How can you have turf fights, corp wars, if you're going to take a sec hit for podkilling?
As has been the case for a long time, if you are in a player corporation that is officially at war with another, then you will not get security status penalties for attacking and killing members of the other party. Whether ship kills or pod kills.
You Dev team guys even playing your own creation at all ?:) if we as alliance keeping one system clean from thiefs and player pirates and one day there 2-3 or more of them show up in this sector , by your idea we gone need to ask those guys " Please hold on here we need to declair war on your corp, it will take 24 hours to take effect and then we can shoot you , for now please be nice and dont shoot us" DEV's you got to be kidding
there dozens pirate corp we may not even know which one which untill they show up in our space and start podding our members in that case we need to do imidiate conteractions to destroy treat and clean our systems, other wise we all loose our ships if gone wait untill "war" thing will take effect.
I realy like to see Dev team respond on this ? Please.
Thnx.
Diplomacy it art of saing "good dogy" until you can find a big rock. |
dalman
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Posted - 2003.09.12 20:19:00 -
[38]
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How can you have turf fights, corp wars, if you're going to take a sec hit for podkilling?
As has been the case for a long time, if you are in a player corporation that is officially at war with another, then you will not get security status penalties for attacking and killing members of the other party. Whether ship kills or pod kills.
You MUST realize the use of alts as spies.
In our war with RUS, they constantly create alts in n00b corp, with which they go to our home system in Stain and watch what we are doing.
So from next patch, you're letting them sit there all day long watching everything we do.
I can tell you that we are ****ed about taking sec hits when attacking Sin/m0o in FD-MLJ(0.0 system), this change will make us mad. It won't take many days before every member of SA has a negative sec rating.
In other words, this change sucks big time.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2003.09.12 20:26:00 -
[39]
Lickspittle, please look at my arguments against this in this thread I started in the general forum earlier today
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=31595&page=2
If you honestly want to put this change through, allow us to declare war on as many corporations as we like, because if thats what it will take to allow us to pod kill the enemies of OUR space, then thats what we will do.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Darth Tom
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Posted - 2003.09.12 20:43:00 -
[40]
Quote:
If you honestly want to put this change through, allow us to declare war on as many corporations as we like, because if thats what it will take to allow us to pod kill the enemies of OUR space, then thats what we will do.
Indeed. This change does rather put a spanner in the works when large corps and alliances are trying to claim and hold 0.0 space.
Now, if there was never a need to return to empire space, I could kind of see the reasoning behind this.
As it stands, though, without player platforms, people are always going to have to return to empire space for something.
Please, if nothing else, put this off until player platforms are in and solid. Then corps can make the decision:
- do we play by Concord's rules?
- do we cut loose and build our own empires?
This would also make a lot more sense if faction ratings worked. As it is, they're just numbers, and sec status is the only game in town.
Taking a hit on podding will mean you can no longer securely control an area of space. There aren't enough stations out in 0.0 to support player empires as is - you *have* to return to empire space sooner or later.
Cheers,
TOM
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.09.12 20:50:00 -
[41]
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How can you have turf fights, corp wars, if you're going to take a sec hit for podkilling?
As has been the case for a long time, if you are in a player corporation that is officially at war with another, then you will not get security status penalties for attacking and killing members of the other party. Whether ship kills or pod kills.
lickspittle, declaring war on every pirate corp out there is not possible. And leaving a player in their pod is leaving a spy to report everything that goes on back to his allies.
Do this and everyone, not just the pirates, lose out. Knowledge is power. People knowing that you just reinforced your position with 2 Scorpions is power. Knowing that 3 Armageddons just left the system is power.
Taking out a pod takes out a source of information. Remove that with the threat of being outlawed in Empire Space and you're creating a vulnerability for the defenders to be exploited.
yup agreed...
since its not monitored who cares what the clone says... it would be there word vs your word and since the ship and pod is destroyed then... how the hell can they bring any evidence? its ALL BLOWN UP!! concord would have nothing...
And its impossible to declare war on every pirate corp and other corps that you are fighting withą its just stupid idea thatĘs all.
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.09.12 21:00:00 -
[42]
THE ONLY WAY THIS WOULD WORK!!
IS IF YOU FIRE ONE SOMEONE AND THEY RETURN ANY HOSTILE ACTION ON YOU... THEN YOU ARE FREE TO POD THEM AS WELL!! BECAUSE YOU STARTED A FIGHT WITH THEM, SO YOU MIGHT AS WELL KILL THEM BECAUSE THEY WOULD DO THE SAME!!
THE ONLY WAY YOU WOULD GET A SEC HIT WOULD BE IF:
you fire on them and they dont fire or return any hostile actions and you pod them, then you get sec hit... that would be innocent people!!
WHEN SOMEONE FIRES BACK its not quite innocent... or if they fire first and you fire back... etc... same difference
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Worrlock
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Posted - 2003.09.12 21:56:00 -
[43]
I would actually like to voice my support for this idea. The idea does have its flaws but they are on the right track IMO. Planes have blackboxes and flight data recorders Why wouldn't space ships. The black box would be in the rescue pod, and the only way to avoid being turned in should be to kill the pod too, but the pod should be non jammable and the only reason one wouldn't get away is if they were AFK or crying so much they couldn't hit warp.
Also, PC pirates shouldn't be allowed into certian space stations. Like the Intaki Space Police headquaters and such. Its a POLICE station, why would they let pirates dock. Mineral aqusistion stations and stuff like that would be ok, becase they are generally assumed to be corporate owned.
I know this isn't the idea forums, but it sorta goes along with the whole theme.
----------------------------------------------
When you die and die you will, you will die to the sound of applause.
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Jojin
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Posted - 2003.09.12 22:40:00 -
[44]
Personally I don't like the idea of killing individuals, but I must admit this is going a bit too far. In deep space, actions should be exempt from report or sticking with the character. The idea of people just vanishing is rather interesting to the game. I would actually rather see the system only responds to players signaling for help and security hits are only recorded if an individual can survive to make it to a station.
The concept of the authorities or any group instantly knowing all events which transpire in the universe is sort of absurd.
If such actions always carry such high penalties why not just make escape pods invulnerable and get it over with. This would place the game to be like the rest where the character can only loose items and never suffer any harm. Plus it will remove any technical challenges and difficulties associated with having or making clones.
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Hippey
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Posted - 2003.09.12 22:59:00 -
[45]
for god's sake people.. read the damn text carefully
YOU WILL LOSE SECURITY STATUS IN 0.0 ONLY IF YOU DESTROY THE POD OF ANOTHER PERSON. DESTROYING SHIPS IN 0.0 STILL BEARS NO PENALTY
YOU CAN DEFEND AGAINST AN ATTACKER AND YOU WILL NOT LOSE SECURITY STATUS, NO MATTER WHAT SYSTEM YOU ARE IN. HOWEVER, DESTROYING HIS POD MEANS THAT YOU ARE NOW THE AGRESSOR AND YOU WILL BE PUNISHED FOR THAT
IT'S NOT A CRIME IF YOU DON'T GET CAUGHT? WELL THE PERSON WHO WAS JUST PODKILLED AND RESPAWNED IN A CLONE REPORTED THE CRIME, THAT'S HOW CONCORD FOUND OUT AND THAT'S WHY YOU GOT CAUGHT.
Now quit the damn whining here and learn to READ!
and ANOTHER thing.. how many of you are just freaking FINE with having +9.9 security status PIRATES roaming the galaxy because they lose NOTHING in 0.0 right now and you can't even put bounties on them until they get to -1.0 which in the current system, THEY NEVER WOULD!!!
Gah.. try to see the bigger picture. Stop being so narrow minded.
-------------------------------------------
If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
Valeria
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Posted - 2003.09.12 23:02:00 -
[46]
Rofl. So, I take it Pods won't have camera drones or communication systems in the next patch either? I don't see how anything you posted justifies how people can spy using alts in pods, or just pods in general, Hippey.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Sphalerite
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Posted - 2003.09.12 23:34:00 -
[47]
So the problem most people seem to have with this change isn't that they can't blow up pods anymore, as much as it is that pods are getting more and more usefull. They are already great for exploring, as npcs don't attack them, and now they'll be pretty much invincible.
I'd like to see pods changed from slow, NPC safe mini scouts into "better get to a station now because I've only got half an inch of tritanium between me and space and its getting kinda cold in here" escape vessels.
A couple of options I see are
-Give pods a time limit. Stay out for 20 mins and you're a corpsicle.
-You set a station the same way you set your clone and your pods autopilot is stuck on that and won't turn off
-Make NPCs blast pods that have been out for a while.
-make it only a crime to kill pods at gates and warp in points. maybe for the first 30 seconds they're out of a ship. Anyone who doesn't run away is fair game though.
PodKilling should be a crime. It should be something reserved for your worst enemies and the most notorious pirates. Pods should have no use other than getting your half-dead body back to a station asap.
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dalman
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Posted - 2003.09.13 00:59:00 -
[48]
Edited by: dalman on 13/09/2003 01:14:44
 Congrats to Hippey for providing the most stupid post ever
Why didn't YOU READ THIS THREAD! The problem is that we can't kill the pods. I'll explaining it for you again:
Everyone knows where we are. We have several wars, among others with RUS who may be the best PvP corp in EVE. They frequently send in n00b alts to check what we are doing, and for sure they always use alts to scout when we're up for battle. Now, we can send those alts back to the cloning facilities. With this patch, we'll either start taking massive sec hits or let RUS know exactly what we are doing. Sound like this change is a good idea???
*edit* And yes, you can destroy a pod in self defence. Or maybe you don't know what a missile is. If I'm in a fight, I usually have missiles flying when the ship goes down. And those missiles sure as **** explode on the pod killing the person instantly.
*edit 2* And how the **** can it be bad to be podkilled? You usually save 1 hour of jumping in pod/n00bship. In this 1 hour you'll make like 3 million and have to pay half a million for a clone.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Mark A
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:07:00 -
[49]
Taking a sec hit in 0.0 space is a bad, bad idea. Currently it is a safe haven from these things, and the impossibility of telling the good guy from the bad guy via some algorithm.
Who fires first just doesn't cut it - someone could have attacked you previously and you are just retaliating. Torps, which are much more useful now, tend to pod the pilot whether you like it or not. And finally the limit of 3 corp wars which you can never clear means you can be in a state of war with many more corps than the ingame algorithms are aware of.
No, no, please no.
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SS Vegito
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:43:00 -
[50]
Yup too bad my raven gets the pod everytime I kill there ship without me even having to try.(think Ive even killed the corpse everytime too so no trophies  )
Guess I better train that social skill up.
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dalman
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:01:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Yup too bad my raven gets the pod everytime I kill there ship without me even having to try.(think Ive even killed the corpse everytime too so no trophies )
Guess I better train that social skill up.
Oh yes. Destroying a ship usually means my missiles blow away the pod, the cargo can and also the frozen corpse.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
NGRU Vulture
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:13:00 -
[52]
Edited by: NGRU Vulture on 13/09/2003 02:15:54
Edited by: NGRU Vulture on 13/09/2003 02:15:33
Quote:
If you honestly want to put this change through, allow us to declare war on as many corporations as we like, because if thats what it will take to allow us to pod kill the enemies of OUR space, then thats what we will do.
Man it not enough to let us declair as many wars as we like , war declaration take effect 24 hours after vote done, it mean those guys pirates may be long gone beofre you even declair war at them we need to be able to shoot intruders pirates on sight.
As for for shooting back guys i dont know your structure in Corp. but in our alliance miners and haulers working on Ore and minerals and fighters scouting system and defending them, so if Miner get shoot at, it fighter who will shoot back and with new rule fighter will loose hes sec status very qick to the point when other hunters in other system my take as pirate and will shoot innocent player on sight.
I repeat WORST IDEA EVER CCP come up with !!!!!
Diplomacy it art of saing "good dogy" until you can find a big rock. |
Chucky
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:34:00 -
[53]
I believe taken a sec hit killing pods in 0.0 is wrong aswell But if CCP goes through with it, then alliances will make up alts for the sole purpose of killing pods and CCP has done nothing but waste more time.
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:44:00 -
[54]
Quote:
...
Now quit the damn whining here and learn to READ!
and ANOTHER thing.. how many of you are just freaking FINE with having +9.9 security status PIRATES roaming the galaxy because they lose NOTHING in 0.0 right now and you can't even put bounties on them until they get to -1.0 which in the current system, THEY NEVER WOULD!!!
Gah.. try to see the bigger picture. Stop being so narrow minded.
Why don't you see the bigger picture, Hippey? You're so blind trying to punish a pirate you'll jack everyone to get at them.
NPC Pirates do not pod...Except via unintentional splash damage from missile volleys.
Even the 'Good Guys' pod spies to secure the area.
The clone is the cheapest, most easily replaceable thing lost in the end and can be replaced by anyone with insignificant cost (With EP-S Gaussians, Mining lvl 3, and haverster drones I make double the cost of the A+ clone I carry mining Scordite per hour in a Thorax).
In the end, m0o and others that pod on sight won't be affected. They survive just fine outside Empire Space using alts and fences.
Given all that, I repeat:
Quote:
Getting podded is only an ego bruise to the insecure.
Are you that insecure that going *SQUISH* hurts you so badly you're ready to **** so much over 500k worth of clone and a failed attempt to punish m0o? 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Darger VonReign
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Posted - 2003.09.13 03:47:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Destroying a capsule (pod killing) of an innocent player will now always make players loose security status. This was not happening in non-empire space where outlaws and mega corporations have set foot.
It would be nice if someone from CCP would explain the logic behind this little gem.
And if you are going to go this route and make people take sec hits for podding someone why not go all out and just tac on sec hits in 0.0 space for blowing up ships to?
Personaly I like 0.0 space just the way it is... a wild land, might makes right, anything goes, no crappy exploitable rules of engagement. And honestly, the cost of a clone is realy a none factor for a player properly outfited for 0.0 space relative to the ship plus equipment he just lost to be in a pod anyways.
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dalman
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Posted - 2003.09.13 11:14:00 -
[56]
Quote:
...and ANOTHER thing.. how many of you are just freaking FINE with having +9.9 security status PIRATES roaming the galaxy because they lose NOTHING in 0.0 right now and you can't even put bounties on them until they get to -1.0 which in the current system, THEY NEVER WOULD!!!
I am just freaking FINE with that.
Stay in empire space if you're not.
It's pretty obvious that the ONLY people who like this change is those who live in empire space. Why listen to them when they want to make entire EVE empire space???
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Neslepaks
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Posted - 2003.09.13 11:28:00 -
[57]
I think CCP should put in a month of thinking about every change they're gonna make.
It seems many of the changes are things that just pop up in some devs mind and then they implement it.
And yeah, they always listen to the whining of carebears..
Whining will get you the changes you need!
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Mark A
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Posted - 2003.09.13 12:41:00 -
[58]
Well last night I took a sec hit in 0.0 space immediately on opening fire on someone (an enemy, but with no official war of course).
THIS WAS ON TQ - WTF is going on? Have server-side changes been put onto TQ already?
After killing countless thousands of NPC pirates I now have a -ve sec rating from one single incident. And of course the only realistic way to increase it again is with agents, who all hang out in empire space - another stellar piece of thinking .
Sort it out CCP.
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Zoltaris
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Posted - 2003.09.13 13:12:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Quote:
Fixed a rounding error in the solarsystem security level calculations. This will stop people from being punished for crimes they commit in some border solarsystems in non-empire space.
From the patchlog of the upcomming patch.
I don't know what you are all complaining about... i think this make it clear that in the next patch, you won't lose sec. status anymore for podding peoples in 0.0 space...
Isn't that what you all want?
If so, why are you still complaining?
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Mark A
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Posted - 2003.09.13 13:14:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Mark A on 13/09/2003 13:21:43
The bad change is you always take a sec hit for podding, nomatter where you are.
The reasons are:
1. Podding is insignificant compared to the loss of a cruiser let alone a battleship, so there's no sense in it being penalised especially.
2. You sometimes have to pod spys to have a chance of sending them home, or else they'll be back out in another noob ship in 5 minutes.
3. When using missiles or torps (which will get used more next patch) you can hardly avoid podding someone.
4. "Innocent" is meaningless given the current state of the corp war system.
5. etc.
Just say no. The sooner this change is backed out the better.
[BTW the sec hit I took on TQ was more than 20 jumps from any system with >0.0 sec., so doesn't appear to the result of the rounding bug mentioned].
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