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Ginaz	Posted - 2006.03.29 09:56:00 - [121] Edited by: Ginaz on 29/03/2006 09:55:58 cuz its ugly :> and you have some kind of surprising moment when this "haha blasternoob" approaches and has nos instead of full blasters. its a... hm... nosterthronix - Veto. ftw!
Dreez	Posted - 2006.03.29 10:03:00 - [122] Originally by: Ginaz Edited by: Ginaz on 29/03/2006 09:55:58 cuz its ugly :> and you have some kind of surprising moment when this "haha blasternoob" You see, thats the problem right there , "blasternoob". It should be "Ohhh CRAP, a blasterthron, and im in range. Might aswell wait for the ensurancepayout cuz i dont no WCS". Current Location: After chasing TomB for 2 years, at the pub, getting a cold beer.
dabster	Posted - 2006.03.29 10:55:00 - [123] Originally by: Dreez Edited by: Dreez on 29/03/2006 10:06:56 Originally by: Ginaz Edited by: Ginaz on 29/03/2006 09:55:58 cuz its ugly :> and you have some kind of surprising moment when this "haha blasternoob" approaches and has nos instead of full blasters. It should be -"Ohhh CRAP, a blasterthron, and im in range. Might aswell wait for the ensurancepayout cuz i got no WCS". /Edit: Spelling. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
ChalSto	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:06:00 - [124] Originally by: Dreez Edited by: Dreez on 29/03/2006 10:06:56 Originally by: Ginaz Edited by: Ginaz on 29/03/2006 09:55:58 cuz its ugly :> and you have some kind of surprising moment when this "haha blasternoob" approaches and has nos instead of full blasters. You see, thats the problem right there , "blasternoob". It should be -"Ohhh CRAP, a blasterthron, and im in range. Might aswell wait for the ensurancepayout cuz i got no WCS". /Edit: Spelling. agreed. The Blasterthron should be the "shotgun" of the bs. You spend lots lots lots of time to buy a megathron + fitting + skills. You finaly managed to set up a decent fit for it..........and then you have to watch it dieing to EVERY other bs. TomB.......I beg you on my knees DMG I can live with the cap; I can live with the fitting-requirements; I can live with the range; BUT then I want a "give back" in dmg. Current Location: Relax and drinking a beer with Dreez and waiting for TomB¦s Blaster changes
Ginaz	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:20:00 - [125] Edited by: Ginaz on 29/03/2006 11:21:23 I agree, that the blasterthron should be the shotgun-bs. You have to sacrifice lot of your cap to get into range and you have to sacrifice lot of your tanking ability. The payoff should be a "**** a blasterthron next to me, i am going to be bbqed." In the current state it is just a blasternoob. Sure there are some good blasterthron pilots which can still be dangerous but in the current state most average pilots have to change from a all-out-blasterboat to be really dangerous. Like fitting it as a domi-mega hybrid. To be honest, i am not a very good blasterthron pilot. But i prefer smaller ships anyways. Devs are looking into it, every Thread about large blaster issues will get us nowhere. They know about the problems. - Veto. ftw!
Sun Ra	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:30:00 - [126] Edited by: Sun Ra on 29/03/2006 11:34:24 Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 29/03/2006 09:45:45 Originally by: Sun Ra Edited by: Sun Ra on 29/03/2006 08:07:10 Autopest has pretty much the same problems, cept our guns do less damage & we have less drones. If a Ion mega gets within 10km it'll fry any autopest Train t2 drones, 5 heavies add 70-100+dps overall damage, spend 40-60mil on some ts 55% hardeners add another damage mod or plate also. Tbh dual 650 on pest do more dmg than ion cannon on thron. We have 7th gun, however you got 2. nosf. Drones are only thing that is really better. And also faction hardeners use TOO much cpu for thron. 1)Show me a decent 650 setup with 2 heavy nos 2)faction hardeners use 20cpu thats less than t2 energised nanos edit: and no a sheld tank isnt a decent setup in most case, and in case it is, ie large group with tacklers you should be doing more than enough damage that nos'ing is pointless Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Hinik	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:33:00 - [127] Edited by: Hinik on 29/03/2006 11:36:25 I have to say, I really don't see what all the fuss is about. I've spent a few million on some CPU and Grid saving modules and mu mega works just fine... granted in order to fit my last mod... even with every mod on the ship being faction, I'm still 7 CPU short (and that's with a -3% turret CPU implant) and when I shoot sturr it IS like beong Nossed bya domi... but the damage it not bad. Just because I'm greedy and I wouldn't be a Mega pilot if I didn't jump on the bandwagon of less CPU and Cap usage... and maybe a little more dage but truth be told, I'm happy that the mega is for well skilled pilots only... it adds a little something special. EDIT: If they do make the mega easier to fit I'll just keep all my uber mods on and maybe go for Neuts rather than Ions... then that full rack of Neutron II's will be less of a pipe dream LOVES CHARITY REGARD
Nagissa Kaworu	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:34:00 - [128] Originally by: Dreez Edited by: Dreez on 29/03/2006 10:06:56 Originally by: Ginaz Edited by: Ginaz on 29/03/2006 09:55:58 cuz its ugly :> and you have some kind of surprising moment when this "haha blasternoob" approaches and has nos instead of full blasters. You see, thats the problem right there , "blasternoob". It should be -"Ohhh CRAP, a blasterthron, and im in range. Might aswell wait for the ensurancepayout cuz i got no WCS". /Edit: Spelling. Exactly when you see a blasterthron comming at you, the only thing you want to do is put your BS in reverse and get the F**CK out of there
Sun Ra	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:35:00 - [129] Originally by: Hinik I have to say, I really don't see what all the fuss is about. I've spent a few million on some CPU and Grid saving modules and mu mega works just fine... granted in order to fit my last mod... even with every mod on the ship being faction, I'm still 7 CPU short (and that's with a -3% turret CPU implant) and when I shoot sturr it IS like beong Nossed bya domi... but the damage it not bad. Just because I'm greedy and I wouldn't be a Mega pilot if I didn't jump on the bandwagon of less CPU and Cap usage... and maybe a little more dage but truth be told, I'm happy that the mega is for well skilled pilots only... it adds a little something special. Can you tell then how you outdamaged my tank before i could do the same eve using hail Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:35:00 - [130] Originally by: ChalSto Originally by: Dreez Edited by: Dreez on 29/03/2006 10:06:56 Originally by: Ginaz Edited by: Ginaz on 29/03/2006 09:55:58 cuz its ugly :> and you have some kind of surprising moment when this "haha blasternoob" approaches and has nos instead of full blasters. You see, thats the problem right there , "blasternoob". It should be -"Ohhh CRAP, a blasterthron, and im in range. Might aswell wait for the ensurancepayout cuz i got no WCS". /Edit: Spelling. agreed. The Blasterthron should be the "shotgun" of the bs. You spend lots lots lots of time to buy a megathron + fitting + skills. You finaly managed to set up a decent fit for it..........and then you have to watch it dieing to EVERY other bs. TomB.......I beg you on my knees DMG I can live with the cap; I can live with the fitting-requirements; I can live with the range; BUT then I want a "give back" in dmg. Every single time i see youre posts here on the forum, my eyes begin to bleed...
Gauss Belloid	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:38:00 - [131] I dont fly megathrons so bear with me here but couldnt some of the problems be solved by boosting the 100mn mwd? Its a beast of a module to fit and is rarely used because of it which is a shame cause it adds so much fun to the game instead of all that static align and shoot crap atm. Maybe lower the fitting and penalties as well as cap use? This doesnt solve the issue of autopest vs Blasterthron I realize that but I think it could benefit the game anyway - seeing more ppl actually using the modules.
Sun Ra	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:40:00 - [132] Edited by: Sun Ra on 29/03/2006 11:42:01 Edited by: Sun Ra on 29/03/2006 11:40:33 er a blasterthron useless with out a mwd, and megas alreadt get a bonus for it. Pretty much everyone in my corp fits one, be it a mega a tempest or a raven Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:40:00 - [133] Originally by: Gauss Belloid I dont fly megathrons so bear with me here but couldnt some of the problems be solved by boosting the 100mn mwd? Its a beast of a module to fit and is rarely used because of it which is a shame cause it adds so much fun to the game instead of all that static align and shoot crap atm. Maybe lower the fitting and penalties as well as cap use? This doesnt solve the issue of autopest vs Blasterthron I realize that but I think it could benefit the game anyway - seeing more ppl actually using the modules. tbh I would rather see the stupid 25% cap penalty removed from mwds completely Originally by: Tuxford we look at them say "wow autocannons sure do suck,... oh well lets go boost amarr".
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:44:00 - [134] Originally by: Sun Ra Edited by: Sun Ra on 29/03/2006 11:42:01 Edited by: Sun Ra on 29/03/2006 11:40:33 er a blasterthron useless with out a mwd, and megas alreadt get a bonus for it. Pretty much everyone in my corp fits one, be it a mega a tempest or a raven mega gets a bonus for tracking and damage... Originally by: Tuxford we look at them say "wow autocannons sure do suck,... oh well lets go boost amarr".
Gauss Belloid	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:46:00 - [135] I wasnt talking about changing the megathrons bonuses but rather the mwd module itself.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:50:00 - [136] Originally by: Gauss Belloid I wasnt talking about changing the megathrons bonuses but rather the mwd module itself. Not sure thats such a good idea tbh.. That would turn the game balance upside down.
Hinik	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:51:00 - [137] Originally by: Sun Ra Originally by: Hinik I have to say, I really don't see what all the fuss is about. I've spent a few million on some CPU and Grid saving modules and mu mega works just fine... granted in order to fit my last mod... even with every mod on the ship being faction, I'm still 7 CPU short (and that's with a -3% turret CPU implant) and when I shoot sturr it IS like beong Nossed bya domi... but the damage it not bad. Just because I'm greedy and I wouldn't be a Mega pilot if I didn't jump on the bandwagon of less CPU and Cap usage... and maybe a little more dage but truth be told, I'm happy that the mega is for well skilled pilots only... it adds a little something special. Can you tell then how you outdamaged my tank before i could do the same eve using hail If a pest has a MWD and non T2 ammo in it... and it's MWDing away from you, all you have to do in a mega (as you don't stand a hope of catching him) is either invest in a domination web... 15k should be adequete range to them speed towards the bugger and kicj the living daylights out of him, as he won't have T2 ammo fitted and probably can't outdamage your tank before he goes down... OR.... turn your ship around and get the hell out of dodge.. coz you're not gonna be able to kill him. if he DOES have T2 ammo fitted, whichis a strong posibilityif they're a skilled pilot, simply MWD up to them, they probably can only just get through your shield by the time you're in range (if you start at 15km) and then they're dead anyway... ok granted I'm pretty specialised in flying mu mega, and it may not be as easy to Kick Ra's autopest for the newer mega pilots out there. for those who need to know my setup (which I probably won't be using in combat till I have a faction Mega) is: 7x Ion II Gist X-Type 100MWD Domination warp disruptor True Sansha CAp injector (7 CPU short of a Lagnour Web) nothing in the last mid atm 2x True Sansha Large Reps 3x Domination active hardeners 1600 Rolled Tungsten Mag Stab II or Damge control or CPR but the truth is... you DO have to spend stupid money to have something that will stand up against another setup a fraction of the cost. LOVES CHARITY REGARD
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:53:00 - [138] so you're basically concluding that the only way to fly gallente's tech1 tier2 bs is to fit it with a **-load of faction modules? sounds broken to me. Originally by:** Tuxford we look at them say "wow autocannons sure do suck,... oh well lets go boost amarr".
Hinik	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:54:00 - [139] Originally by: Sarmaul so you're basically concluding that the only way to fly gallente's tech1 tier2 bs is to fit it with a ****-load of faction modules? sounds broken to me. heh eyah it does doesn't it... LOVES CHARITY REGARD
Hinik	Posted - 2006.03.29 11:56:00 - [140] and btw I believe the 1600 Rolled Tungsten to be ABSOLUTELY NESECARY, due to the aproach. you need something that can soak up some damage to get you in range without leaving you at half cap and half armour and just starting to shoot. LOVES CHARITY REGARD
ChalSto	Posted - 2006.03.29 12:01:00 - [141] Edited by: ChalSto on 29/03/2006 12:05:00 Every single time i see youre posts here on the forum, my eyes begin to bleed... Stop flaming and give us some constructive solutions. All I heard from you so far was "lol" "rofl" "stupid" and other nice constructive ideas to solve to blaster issue Have you ever flown a blasterthorn by youself? If "yes", why you are flaming then? You should know the problem then. If "no", well..........we¦ll still ignore you then Current Location: Relax and drinking a beer with Dreez and waiting for TomB¦s Blaster changes
Star Nove	Posted - 2006.03.29 12:10:00 - [142] Originally by: Zysco My suggestions are a bunch of minor changes/boosts: Lower the mega's sig. Its retarded that you mwd all the way there, orbit at close range, and are still hit by long range guns. Sig would also help with b-thron vs torpraven balance issues. Lower the mega's mass, by a lot. It should be able to get up to speed quickly. Right now it takes 2 cycles of the mwd just to get above 600m/sec. Slight damage boost to LARGE blasters. As said before, medium and small already own. This is mainly due to the fact that on smaller ships, other ships cannot fit as good a tank. However, with every BS in non-fleet or npc situations fitting a tank, the amount of damage blasters do drastically drops. Less cpu. The fact that you need a co-proc II to fit a blasterthron with t2 guns is just wrong given that you can do similar fittings on a geddon, apoc, or pest and need no co-proc. MUCH less cap. Shooting your guns is like being heavy nossed by 2 nos. /signed -nove Stay the Course!
Sun Ra	Posted - 2006.03.29 12:16:00 - [143] K fully pimped out test WHOS THE BAD MAN WHO CAN DRAW! Now tell me the autopest is great, and the raven is alot better than it looks due to not having bad shots or missing Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Sun Ra	Posted - 2006.03.29 12:19:00 - [144] Edited by: Sun Ra on 29/03/2006 12:19:39 Originally by: Hinik blah 7x Ion II Gist X-Type 100MWD Domination warp disruptor True Sansha CAp injector (7 CPU short of a Lagnour Web) nothing in the last mid atm 2x True Sansha Large Reps 3x Domination active hardeners 1600 Rolled Tungsten Mag Stab II or Damge control or CPR but the truth is... you DO have to spend stupid money to have something that will stand up against another setup a fraction of the cost. You can do the same setup with normal reps and normal mwd, only yhr hardeners needed to fit it all, 60mil aint much, as i remember there was a time when a decent raven setup cost much more Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Hinik	Posted - 2006.03.29 12:24:00 - [145] Originally by: Sun Ra Edited by: Sun Ra on 29/03/2006 12:19:39 Originally by: Hinik blah 7x Ion II Gist X-Type 100MWD Domination warp disruptor True Sansha CAp injector (7 CPU short of a Lagnour Web) nothing in the last mid atm 2x True Sansha Large Reps 3x Domination active hardeners 1600 Rolled Tungsten Mag Stab II or Damge control or CPR but the truth is... you DO have to spend stupid money to have something that will stand up against another setup a fraction of the cost. You can do the same setup with normal reps and normal mwd, only yhr hardeners needed to fit it all, 60mil aint much, as i remember there was a time when a decent raven setup cost much more aye true, but with normal (acom) reps and a normal MWD it takes longer to get into range, and you have a worse tank in order to keep up with the damage dealt to you before you reached the enemy, so it all swings in roundabouts. LOVES CHARITY REGARD
Sun Ra	Posted - 2006.03.29 12:27:00 - [146] Edited by: Sun Ra on 29/03/2006 12:30:10 yeah but its a better tank they a tempest and can do more damage. ALSO YOU ALL SEEM TO BE VERY QUIET ABOUT THIS put your hands in your pocket and spend that extra 55-60mil for the l33t skeet thron, or fly a domi instead Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Wrayeth	Posted - 2006.03.29 12:50:00 - [147] Originally by: dalman 1. I said especially tempest and amarr ships. Because the raven is quite hard to fit already. But, you're still talking siege launchers... which pretty much should be compared to a mega fitting neutrons, and then the raven is still easier to fit. Not really. My raven setup has a coprocessor II and a reactor control II and barely scrapes by with only a few CPU to spare, even when using a XL C5L instead of tech II, and using named medium nos. Quote: Your talk about the tempest makes me laugh. These are the problems you have trying to fit 800 + large mods in your utilityslots. And the same problems a megathron has when fitting electrons. Ie, you should have these problems when you try fitting dual425mm to your tempest. Huh? My tempest setup uses dual 650's - there's no way in hell that I could fit 800's on my current setup without going for grid and CPU mods. Just FYI: 6 dual 650 II 2 heavy nosferatu I 1 100MN AB II 1 J5 20km scrambler 1 fleeting web 1 hypnos multispectral jammer 1 heavy electrochemical cap injector 2 large accomodation armor repairers 2 gyrostabilizer II 2 energized adaptive nano membrane II Let me stress again that you absolutely cannot fit this without advanced weapons upgrades 5 (with adv weapon upgrades 5, you're left with about 30 grid free). Also please note the number of named mods that needed to be used to make this fit, and that it does not have a microwarpdrive - it has an afterburner. In any case, I've already said I agree with you that the fitting requirements on blasters are too harsh. This, however, does not mean that the other races should be nerfed, just so you can have your way. Instead, blaster fitting requirements need to be reduced. Quote: 2. Yes, the problem is EW. A dominix can typicly fit 3 heavy nos + 3 medium guns + it's drones = 560ish DPS with maxed skills and T2 ammo. Guess what: this can be done with other ships as well. A typhoon, armageddon and megathron can all easily get 560 ish DPS + 3 heavy nos without using any damagemods. They beat the domi 'at it's own game'. Yet you don't see anyone whining about such fittings, but lots of whining about the domi. How come? Cause the overpowered EW system favour the dominix. Hence a balanced EW system would sort the domi. This simply does not follow. The problem, again, is the dominix. Quote: 3. So torps is not a problem? Well, it isn't for you. But if your tempest was nerfed to be balanced fittingwise (see (1) above), then it would be. Simple as that. Again, this does not follow. There are eight Empire battleships in EVE, currently, and you're suggesting that seven of them be balanced against one, as opposed to the one being balanced against the other seven. Simply put, it's not the raven or the tempest that's overpowered; rather, it's the megathron that's underpowered. Quote: But the problem at the moment is that my character is maxed out for piloting a blasterthron. There's not a single skill-level left in the game that I can train that will enhance my performance. Yet I completely refuse to fly a blasterthron. Simply because if I come up against a pilot with 'equal' skills fitted for a 1vs1 (which fortunately are very rare), I will not win - no matter which of the other 7 battleships he'd fly. Fact. That's the point of suggesting that large blasters get a boost. It would be much easier (and also much less disruptive) to boost one class of large weapons than to nerf all but one class of battleships. At this juncture, I can only say that it seems to me that you feel that the EVE battleship balance should all be dependant on the megathron, as opposed to the megathron balance being dependant on all the other battleships. Simply put: the world does not revolve around the mega. My apologies if that's not the way you were trying to present your argument, but this is what it sounds like to me. -Wrayeth
Sun Ra	Posted - 2006.03.29 12:53:00 - [148] I have adv upgrades 5 actually, guess i have check that setup since i got it, thign is you can do the same setup with dual 425 and t2 reps Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.03.29 13:04:00 - [149] Originally by: ChalSto Edited by: ChalSto on 29/03/2006 12:05:00 Every single time i see youre posts here on the forum, my eyes begin to bleed... Stop flaming and give us some constructive solutions. All I heard from you so far was "lol" "rofl" "stupid" and other nice constructive ideas to solve to blaster issue Have you ever flown a blasterthorn by youself? If "yes", why you are flaming then? You should know the problem then. If "no", well..........we¦ll still ignore you then Dude... These blaster issues isnt something that has come up recently.. it has been going on for a looong time, and i already stated a thousand times what i think. ~1+ Year of experience with blasters, what about you? Im not saying there isnt a problem, i cant wait for them to be fixed, and even though they've got a problem, im still flying them.. And btw, talk for yourself mkay?
Wrayeth	Posted - 2006.03.29 13:06:00 - [150] Originally by: Sun Ra edit, just noticed you got a ab on, REALLY bad idea as the best defence vs a blasterthron is to keep it 15-20km away, also your nos wont mean much to a ship that willl rip your tank apart way before you run out of cap. That's why the multispec jammer is there - the occasional jam cycle cuts into the mega's DPS enough that you can tank it. Hell, I got really lucky the other day and kept a blasterthron jammed for most of a fight with just that one jammer - I never even took any armor damage, and I was engaging at point blank. Normally I have to run my tank against a blasterthron but come out ahead due to the 'thron's total DPS being scaled back from being jammed for part of the fight. There is a method to my madness. -Wrayeth

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