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Honestly with HAC prices the way they are whats the point?

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Leandro Salazar	Posted - 2006.03.29 15:55:00 - [31] If you use a HAC with its resistances boosted in the same fields your rats do their damage, they sure tank lvl4s better than BBs (That is resistance and signature based tanking, not repper based tanking) while also being faster and better at wtfpwnig cruisers which are the vast majority of lvl4 mission opponents. If I had HAC skills I would immediately trade my BB for a HAC. The risk is zero for both (unless you got a brain leak or do missions drunk) and I am pretty sure a HAC would do most of them faster than a BB. Except maybe those with 75% Battleship enemies, but those are few. ___________________________________ Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?
Wee Dave	Posted - 2006.03.29 16:01:00 - [32] Originally by: Commander Thrawn i fail to see how a properly fitted hac pilot will loose against a BC. If you know you are going to fight a HAC, it can be done just about. Two webs, scrambler, lots of NOS (as in three or four at least) and a jammer or two if you can fit it. It's never a sure thing and there are some HACS that it just won't work against (either because they will stay at range or jam you before you jam them) but some HACs are vulnerable to it.
Hel Kali	Posted - 2006.03.29 16:30:00 - [33] Originally by: Praxxus Dentor Why risk a HAC in mission running when a BS with a couple of good hardeners works just as well (if not better), plus has more high slots for damage? A faction BS I could see, as not a lot of NPC's are going to make you lose it. But a normal T1 BS pwns any mission level 3 or less, as well as most 4's without a lot of risk to the pilot. Running lvl4 missions in HAC (cerberus) is toooo easy, Since I tried that, My raven is still in the hangar and I dont use it anymore :p --------------------------------------------------------------- CEO of ens0ph corporation : http://www.linutx.be Ferrets Breeding : http://www.alfdm.com
Denrace	Posted - 2006.03.29 16:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Wee Dave Originally by: Commander Thrawn i fail to see how a properly fitted hac pilot will loose against a BC. If you know you are going to fight a HAC, it can be done just about. Two webs, scrambler, lots of NOS (as in three or four at least) and a jammer or two if you can fit it. It's never a sure thing and there are some HACS that it just won't work against (either because they will stay at range or jam you before you jam them) but some HACs are vulnerable to it. My Prophecy will stand up against most HACs very nicely. It will at least be a very close fight with them all. Probably will lose to Minnie hacs, but only due to insane Em/Therm resists on both shield and armour. ________________________________________ Sig Gallery
Jacob Majestic	Posted - 2006.03.29 19:05:00 - [35] Brutix can out-gank a Deimios any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
Centurin	Posted - 2006.03.29 19:10:00 - [36] Why people still fly a Deimios is beyond me.
Darpz	Posted - 2006.03.29 19:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Centurin Why people still fly a Deimios is beyond me. no there uber really..... The only good fix is a DEAD fix
Hub Quantum	Posted - 2006.03.29 20:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Testy Mctest Dominix is a better drone carrier than an Ishtar. How do you figure? With traditional drone setups (noses in high, Ewar in med, tank in low) If both BS and HAS skills are at five the ships are identical, with the edge from range going to the ishtar. The domi has more slots overall, but considering the insane resists and lower sig on the ishtar, you can count a good two low slots you'd have to fit on the domi just to match it's passive resists at which point the only spot the ishtar is lagging behind is high slots and the fact that it can't fit heavy nos easily. For PVE the nosses are relative, so fitting meds on the isthtar is functionally identical, for PVP the edge definitely goes to the domi where the heavy nos reigns supreme, but for lvl 4s and such the ishtar is certainly better, though not by a huge margin. If the nos tweaks happen that are affected by ship sizes/sigs that I think just about everyone suspects is going to happen in Kali (The sheer amount of whining that's occured on it means something is happening to heavy nos/med nos/small nos balance) will push the ishtar well out ahead of the domi instead of it being a small margin ahead in PVE and a substantial margin behind in PVP.
Shaelin Corpius	Posted - 2006.03.29 22:10:00 - [39] Edited by: Shaelin Corpius on 29/03/2006 22:11:35 Can you solo 10/10 Complexes with a domi. Well more than likely no. Ishtar. Yes. Prices are WAY retarded. But people are paying for em, so thats no ones fault but their own. Stop buying the ships. and watch the market bottom out. Plain and simple. Just wait for the new research system. The monopoly kings who spent 100s of billions will cry.
Waxau	Posted - 2006.03.29 22:35:00 - [40] Ive flown a cerb for the past 4 months or so. Amazing ships - can solo lv 4 missions in them easy. i can do most complexs. PvP its great, but not solo. But the fact is that i bought it for 80 before RMR, and now i just made over 200 million profit. I use a simple equation for flying hacs, due to their cost but novelty. Cost + Dissapointment when lost > Fun + usefulness = waste of money -> Therefore sell Cost + Dissapointment when lost < Fun + usefulness = not waste of money -> Therefore who gives a dame The fact is that when i flew in my cerb, i felt people clicked info on me thinking OMG OMG OMG A CERBERUS! I used to cherish people looking at my heavy missiles being fired one every sec, at 150km. I loved tanking 0.0 BS in it. I felt UBER lol. And that is why people buy them. They are just the same as people and faction frigates. They're useless 99% of the time, yet people still PvP in them, rat hunt, etc in them. Same as faction BS - Theyre better than normal, but not worth it with the usefulness alone. The fun factor plays a large role. The simple answer is that these guys are getting rich off us, yet those that have HACs are no doubt having a hell of a time. Theyre faction cruisers, WHICH WORK! BS can easily beat a HAC BC can easily beat a HAC HAC may be able to beat a BC HAC may be able to beat a BS But i can tell you that there is no better mission runner than a cerberus. Better than raven even. Hands down. But alas...with that said, i bow down to the prophetic flaming that i will no doubt recieve...so i shall go out with a bang - omg wcs suck looool j/k:P FLAME ON!!!! Waxau
MercedesBenz	Posted - 2006.03.29 22:44:00 - [41] Originally by: Cummilla Originally by: Khiamara Originally by: Cummilla There is a "fun" factor in flying them that adds to the attractiveness. And really, alot of people fly them just because, for them, they can afford it. I basically agree with you 100% largely because of the issue with nosses in Eve atm. But it's all about variation and understanding that people get enjoyment out of different things for reasons totally unrelated to the "efficeincy" of a given alternative. and whats with all this crying about Nos all of a sudden? If youre scared of falling victim to Nos, fit them yourself or stay out of range. I dont see any problem with Nos in its current form. There's only been at least three or more huge threads on the boards regarding nosses. Read up a little and you'll catch on to what people are finding fault with. Could you link the threads? I'm having trouble finding them and I'm kinda interested to see what they say myself, thanks!
Lucian Alucard	Posted - 2006.03.29 23:14:00 - [42] HACs are Eves muscle cars tbh ----------------------------------------------- Done is done Yes, there will be no taking back Every journey must come to an end All hail to the Gunslinger Beyond our reach, out of control
Corn Meal	Posted - 2006.04.02 22:01:00 - [43] I would much rather un missions in my cerb over a BS due to speed and dmg of it heavy miss's but if I were to lose it no I wont buy anouther ill jut fly myvulture until they fix the other t2 bc for caldari the nighthawk..... I got 3 Vultures the other day at 100m each.. a t2 bc for almost a third of a cerbs going price :\ just dont buy them.... and the RESELLERS will end up droping the price to somthing more reasonable
SiLeNCel2	Posted - 2006.04.03 00:37:00 - [44] the problem is that people are training several month for HACs, just to see that their prices have doubled since the day they have started training. i bought a vagabond for almost 180 mio. isk yesterday, that¦s just sick!! i could also fly a cerberus (started as caldari), but i just found one for 250 mio, and i had to check 5 regions to find it... WTF?!?!
SiLeNCel2	Posted - 2006.04.03 00:47:00 - [45] lol, it was sold today!!
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.04.03 00:58:00 - [46] Originally by: Testy Mctest Previously HACs weren't neccessarily better than BSes, just an alternative, and in many cases, Battleships were better anyway. And for fleet ops, battleships have always reigned supreme. But at the moment specifically due to price, HACs are not a viable alternative to Battleships. Dominix is a better drone carrier than an Ishtar. Raven is better than both Cerberus and Eagle at blowing things up and surviving. Geddon is better than a Zealot at blowing stuff up. Both Amarr BS tank better and do more damage than a Sacri. Tempest is a better nuke platform than a Muninn. The only HACs that aren't bettered by a same-race BS are the Deimos and the Vagabond. Deimos pilots say their HAC sucks, and I don't fly one to be able to argue. That leaves the Vagabond as the only HAC that does anything you can't essentially do with a racial battleship. Vagabonds are worth flying, if you can afford them. The rest are toys. I hachu but QFT =p
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2006.04.03 01:46:00 - [47] I fly a Muninn. I would fly a Vagabond if I could afford one. Sure I can buy one, but it just cost too much for the kind of combat action I like to get into. I predict HAC prices will drop in a few weeks when I get my Sleipnir and start WTFpwnIn. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Clan Chief	Posted - 2006.04.03 02:57:00 - [48] Originally by: Darpz they can be beat down by BCs and BS, they insanely expensive. to me i'd rather fly a tech 2 fitted cruiser and lose it 10 times over and still getting many more quality kills than I could get in a hac. or fly a BC and be able to kill any hac I come across. Hacs were a cool tool back when they were 80M and BCs suck but now it just seems stupid HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I've eaten BattleCruisers and fought Battleships to a standstill... Where did you get your HAC? EBAY? You thought you were safe in Empire. We proved you WrongPain is weakness leaving the body
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.04.03 04:02:00 - [49] Originally by: Praxxus Dentor Why risk a HAC in mission running when a BS with a couple of good hardeners works just as well (if not better), plus has more high slots for damage? A faction BS I could see, as not a lot of NPC's are going to make you lose it. But a normal T1 BS pwns any mission level 3 or less, as well as most 4's without a lot of risk to the pilot. The only thing I've seen pwn lvl 4s, especally the bigger ones like the GEs, better than HACs was a rattlesnake someone had (and lost in lag) that was setup with lots of t2 and faction gear. Had some insane ROF on his torps. Was faster than my Caracal's heavies with 2 (t1) BCUs. Cerbs though.. friggin demons, altho blaster eagles are just nasty. Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
SiLeNCel2	Posted - 2006.04.03 08:32:00 - [50] would be interesting to read some opinios from the sharks who sell those ships! why do u thinking HACs are suddenly worth double price?? prices for assault frigs CCP which are gonna boost (jaguar, hawk) have also increased insanely, who would have ever imagined that the average price for a hawk will be 25 mil. O_o ??
James Lyrus	Posted - 2006.04.03 09:32:00 - [51] Today's HAC rant. They're luxury items. They're in demand. Supply is finite. Price climbs. T2 producers if they undercut market much, someone buys them and resells them at the higher price. shrug they aren't essential. There's only a few T2 ships that can do things that T1 equivalents can't. (Covert Ops, Force Recon and Interdictors). T1 isn't as good, but is easier to fly as well as replaceable. And really, the difference isn't as extreme as it might seem - The difference between T1 and T2 is as much about the fact that when you first fly a cruiser your skills aren't that stunning, wheras when you first fly a HAC, they've pretty much got to be. -- We are recruiting We sell carriers.
Leilani Solaris	Posted - 2006.04.03 09:56:00 - [52] i'll give you a 1 vs 1, my zealot vs a BC of your choice. i gaurantee i'll be left at the end I haven't got a new sig yet :) http://triad.eve-killboard.net/
Ryysa	Posted - 2006.04.03 11:12:00 - [53] Originally by: Leilani Solaris i'll give you a 1 vs 1, my zealot vs a BC of your choice. i gaurantee i'll be left at the end ferox with amarr racials :D All about target jamming
Ripline	Posted - 2006.04.03 11:22:00 - [54] Originally by: SiLeNCel2 would be interesting to read some opinios from the sharks who sell those ships! why do u thinking HACs are suddenly worth double price?? Not much heavy thinking involved in that. Just keeping tabs on how much of our ships are getting resold at higher prices. Profits going somewhere else due to reselling? Time to raise prices. Or in a word following the market. If the ships suddenly started selling less prices would go down as well.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.04.03 11:23:00 - [55] This again...? 1. HACs have nicer skins. 2. HACs are mini battleships. 3. HACs are almost solo pwnmobiles. 4. HACs are sexy. 5. HACs are status objects. Oh nice Stabber. Check out my latest toy, a Vagabond! 6. HACs gives psychological "I win button" againsts the enemies. Erm... HACs are good, a tad pricey but if you have the ISKs, they are very nice to fly. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Leilani Solaris	Posted - 2006.04.03 11:41:00 - [56] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Erm... HACs are good, a tad pricey but if you have the ISKs, they are very nice to fly. Even more so when you have the BPO... eh jenny? build me some vaga's please I haven't got a new sig yet :) http://triad.eve-killboard.net/
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.04.03 11:45:00 - [57] Originally by: Commander Thrawn i fail to see how a properly fitted hac pilot will loose against a BC. Easy. The only hac that possibly has a chance is ishtar. Everything else just dies to well fitted cyclone or proph or brutix. Ferox will have problems breaking tanks with misssiles and rails won't cut it. But it can tank like crazy. Die, die, die.
Zemeckis R	Posted - 2006.04.03 11:48:00 - [58] NERF HAC PRICES \o/
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.04.03 11:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Hub Quantum Originally by: Testy Mctest Dominix is a better drone carrier than an Ishtar. How do you figure? With traditional drone setups (noses in high, Ewar in med, tank in low) If both BS and HAS skills are at five the ships are identical, with the edge from range going to the ishtar. The domi has more slots overall, but considering the insane resists and lower sig on the ishtar, you can count a good two low slots you'd have to fit on the domi just to match it's passive resists at which point the only spot the ishtar is lagging behind is high slots and the fact that it can't fit heavy nos easily. For PVE the nosses are relative, so fitting meds on the isthtar is functionally identical, for PVP the edge definitely goes to the domi where the heavy nos reigns supreme, but for lvl 4s and such the ishtar is certainly better, though not by a huge margin. If the nos tweaks happen that are affected by ship sizes/sigs that I think just about everyone suspects is going to happen in Kali (The sheer amount of whining that's occured on it means something is happening to heavy nos/med nos/small nos balance) will push the ishtar well out ahead of the domi instead of it being a small margin ahead in PVE and a substantial margin behind in PVP. For PvP, you're right; the Dominix is better due to the nos, and longer lasting tank. I was only really talking about PvP when I said that, since any ship can PvE effectively as long as you have half a brain. For PvE, though, it depends what you're fighting. For example, fighting triple Seraphim spawns in 0.0, an Ishtar can have some tank issues. Not saying it always will, but now and again you have to think about warping out, and be very careful. Whereas with a Dominix, it's simple and a no brainer, and that means less risk. Overall, the Ishtar has its advantages, but the Dominix is still better at what it does, and even if it's only marginally better, the price seals the deal. Testy's Eve Blog!
Rich Customs	Posted - 2006.04.03 11:52:00 - [60] Originally by: Praxxus Dentor Why risk a HAC in mission running when a BS with a couple of good hardeners works just as well (if not better), plus has more high slots for damage? A faction BS I could see, as not a lot of NPC's are going to make you lose it. But a normal T1 BS pwns any mission level 3 or less, as well as most 4's without a lot of risk to the pilot. Because it is much faster and easier do a lvl 3 mission with a HAC than with a BS. Especially the multilevel deadspace missions. I use a Tempest for lvl 4 missions, but a Muninn for lvl 3 missions. Have tried to do lvl 3 missions with both a Cyclone and a Tempest, but none do them as fast as my Muninn.

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